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BUF DT Ed Oliver recovering from surgery


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8 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I remember this board being practically all-in on Q.  Those of us that lobbied for a different pick were criticized.  I hated the Q pick, didn't want him, was screaming for a trade down but even if not I didn't want yet another useless interior DL for millionth time.   Q ends up being mediocre at best in his rookie year, but even if he were studly, the pick should have been for a position of greater need.  End of story.  

I would have been perfectly fine with Oliver.  If we had to take a DT, he'd better well have the capability of being a pass rusher.  Oliver fits the bill there, and a lot of people here knew he did prior to demonstrating it as a rookie. 

We would have been much happier right now if Oliver would have been the pick.  Especially if we had been able to trade down prior to taking him.  

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Trading down and taking either Josh Allen, Ed Oliver, or one of the top-rated OL/WR's was the proper move, depending on how far we moved down.  

As usual, Macc took the worst option possible.  

He was a slave to draft value chart. That’s the sign of a lack of confidence. We all know guys like that in fantasy. Will only make a trade if they are are clear “winner” by the trade value charts. No thought, risk or bold action.

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56 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If that helps you feel better, sure.  

Hey man, it's stats right?  That's the only thing important around here.  Did you hear about Jamal's INTs?  Ever look at Gase's offensive ranking?

We need to close our eyes and imagine a world where Jets fans aren't as picky and choosy about what matters.  I'm now looking at a thread on the board complaining about the Jets winning at the end of the year and moving to #11 in the Draft order.

jimmy fallon ugh GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon

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7 hours ago, Dcat said:

I remember this board being practically all-in on Q.  Those of us that lobbied for a different pick were criticized.  I hated the Q pick, didn't want him, was screaming for a trade down but even if not I didn't want yet another useless interior DL for millionth time.   Q ends up being mediocre at best in his rookie year, but even if he were studly, the pick should have been for a position of greater need.  End of story.  

Your memory is flawed.  There were a sh*tload of us that preferred Oliver.  I don't always putz around on the board during the draft, but I certainly was posting in the days leading up to it, and there were a bunch of us pro-Oliver guys, and a bunch of need guys.  IIRC @JiF was the most vocal for Allen.  

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6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Hey man, it's stats right?  That's the only thing important around here.  Did you hear about Jamal's INTs?  Ever look at Gase's offensive ranking?

We need to close our eyes and imagine a world where Jets fans aren't as picky and choosy about what matters.  I'm now looking at a thread on the board complaining about the Jets winning at the end of the year and moving to #11 in the Draft order.

jimmy fallon ugh GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon

Honest question for you after what just played out after this season. If you could trade QW straight up for Oliver would you do it? 

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7 hours ago, jgb said:

He was a slave to draft value chart. That’s the sign of a lack of confidence. We all know guys like that in fantasy. Will only make a trade if they are are clear “winner” by the trade value charts. No thought, risk or bold action.

I just don't see a problem with being a slave to draft value chart.  The problem is with the chart you are relying on blowing donkeys. Teams valuing players is what gets them to trade up for Mahomes or Kamara.  The lack of confidence stems from his chart appearing to be the consensus of the draftniks rather than involving any real analysis or theory. 

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28 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Your memory is flawed.  There were a sh*tload of us that preferred Oliver.  I don't always putz around on the board during the draft, but I certainly was posting in the days leading up to it, and there were a bunch of us pro-Oliver guys, and a bunch of need guys.  IIRC @JiF was the most vocal for Allen.  

When it was all said and done I landed at 1a/b on Oliver and Allen.  

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25 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I just don't see a problem with being a slave to draft value chart.  The problem is with the chart you are relying on blowing donkeys. Teams valuing players is what gets them to trade up for Mahomes or Kamara.  The lack of confidence stems from his chart appearing to be the consensus of the draftniks rather than involving any real analysis or theory. 

My point is sometimes you gotta evaluate a guy as above his draft slot and make it happen, regardless of draft value charts (which are by the way, discredited greatly).

Macc has Kamara in his sights and let him go because that extra 6th rounder was "too much." We drafted a schlub with that 6th BTW.

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58 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Your memory is flawed.  There were a sh*tload of us that preferred Oliver.  I don't always putz around on the board during the draft, but I certainly was posting in the days leading up to it, and there were a bunch of us pro-Oliver guys, and a bunch of need guys.  IIRC @JiF was the most vocal for Allen.  

Yes, I remember. But you are pointing out the few deviants, myself included.  This Board greatly favored Williams just by virtue of the draft position and his rankings.  It was astonishing.

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3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Yes, I remember. But you are pointing out the few deviants, myself included.  This Board greatly favored Williams just by virtue of the draft position and his rankings.  It was astonishing.

I think it was more of a highly vocal minority and the posters that praise every Jets move as the bestest of the best ever because this place is loaded with them.  Critical thinking and opposing views are very unwelcome, regardless of how bad this team has been for the last decade....or should I say the last 50 years.   

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14 minutes ago, RobR said:

I think it was more of a highly vocal minority and the posters that praise every Jets move as the bestest of the best ever because this place is loaded with them.  Critical thinking and opposing views are very unwelcome, regardless of how bad this team has been for the last decade....or should I say the last 50 years.   

ya but that's mostly after the drafting of Williams.  That's when the blind homer's ooze out in droves.  What I'm talking about is before Day 1.  This board was heavily in favor of Williams but for a minority.  

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2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

ya but that's mostly after the drafting of Williams.  That's when the blind homer's ooze out in droves.  What I'm talking about is before Day 1.  This board was heavily in favor of Williams but for a minority.  

The sheeple follow the latest and greatest mocks and change their opinions based on the next article that comes out. That is why I was mentioning the lack of critical thinking. Look no further than folks already basing their mocks on an article from Peter F'ing King in January when the draft is three months away. Absolutely agree with your sentiment.

Last week: None of the Top OT's will fall to 11th.

Today: We could probably trade down into the second and still grab one of the top 3 OT's.

Next week is your guess.

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1 hour ago, RobR said:

Honest question for you after what just played out after this season. If you could trade QW straight up for Oliver would you do it? 

 

Can I choose neither and take Josh Allen at Edge? :P

Okay....okay...I'll play.  I liked Oliver as a prospect and think he'll be a good pro.  But being surrounded by Jerry Hughes, Star Lotulelei, having Trumaine Edmunds behind him....all of those things help.  And despite what PFF and analytics say, I think Oliver had just as good of a rookie season as Quinnen.  I like Oliver's quickness and inside pass rush ability a little better right now, but QW's size and ability to grow and get stronger are a big positive.  I can't see Ed adding any more weight and strength.  Short answer....no...I don't think I'd do a straight up trade of QW for Oliver, but they have very similar ceilings to me.

 

Ed Oliver

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/ed-oliver/42200

1759478423_ScreenShot2020-01-15at6_15_46PM.png.70c530d56f57b150bf590e8996889bf6.png

 

Quinnen Williams

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/quinnen-williams/44216

1554733656_ScreenShot2020-01-15at6_16_04PM.png.d9dd77dc3fcaa2df5e5febaee19e4c34.png

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6 minutes ago, RobR said:

So you would trade Allen straight up for QW right now?

I think I might.  I've been itching to solve that Edge problem for a while now.  Bring back Jenkins, stand up Josh Allen on the opposite side with Mosley and Hewitt in the middle.  That's pretty tasty.....even if we'd really be putting some pressure on younger, unheralded guys like Philips, Fatukasi, and Shepherd along with McClendon and Henry Anderson to man the DLine. 

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12 hours ago, jgb said:

My point is sometimes you gotta evaluate a guy as above his draft slot and make it happen, regardless of draft value charts (which are by the way, discredited greatly).

Macc has Kamara in his sights and let him go because that extra 6th rounder was "too much." We drafted a schlub with that 6th BTW. 

Elijah McGuire was one of his better selections.  Or maybe they could have given up the Jeremy Clark or Derrick Jones pick.  I think people were slating them to be a starting corners in 2018.

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11 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Can I choose neither and take Josh Allen at Edge? :P

Okay....okay...I'll play.  I liked Oliver as a prospect and think he'll be a good pro.  But being surrounded by Jerry Hughes, Star Lotulelei, having Trumaine Edmunds behind him....all of those things help.  And despite what PFF and analytics say, I think Oliver had just as good of a rookie season as Quinnen.  I like Oliver's quickness and inside pass rush ability a little better right now, but QW's size and ability to grow and get stronger are a big positive.  I can't see Ed adding any more weight and strength.  Short answer....no...I don't think I'd do a straight up trade of QW for Oliver, but they have very similar ceilings to me.

 

Ed Oliver

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/ed-oliver/42200

1759478423_ScreenShot2020-01-15at6_15_46PM.png.70c530d56f57b150bf590e8996889bf6.png

 

Quinnen Williams

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/quinnen-williams/44216

1554733656_ScreenShot2020-01-15at6_16_04PM.png.d9dd77dc3fcaa2df5e5febaee19e4c34.png

Also factor in Oliver seems to play with a mean streak/high motor...while Quinnen seems just happy to be there. 

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