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Avery Williamson?

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5 hours ago, Jetster said:

Provided this guy is 100% healthy when camp starts, could he return a 3rd rounder? His salary is only 6.5 Million which is very reasonable for a starter & from what I've seen watching the NFL there are a lot bad defenses out there. 

I could see JD dangling him to see what he could bring. If nothing transpires you keep him & have a good deep LB core with CJ back & all of the guys who got experience with all of the injuries we had. Sucks that our offense needs so much help because this defense is as close to dominant as you can get with a pass rusher & CB. 

Just amazing how Macc never moved around in the draft to target any needs. That's one thing I'll give Tannenbaum credit for, sure he had misses but he had somewhat of a clue. Macc just seemed like he picked guys regardless of our needs. How much better off would we be going into this coming draft with Josh Allen instead of QW? 

If you can move him for a 3 or a 4, that's fine.

I would not cut him.  His base is only 6.5, which isn't that high.  One of the reasons the Jets never get comp picks is our GMs keep signing bad contracts, so players get cut.   You need players to play out their deal, and go FA.   That is how you can eventually start to get comp picks, and the draft is easier when you have 9 or 10 picks instead of 7, even if those extra picks are late rounders.

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2 hours ago, KRL said:

With Hewitt, Burgess and Cashman I'll be shocked if he isn't cut
in February to save $6 million in cap space.  Good player who got hurt at a bad time

Burgess and Hewitt are Free Agents. Burgess had a heck of a season all things considering. Hewitt played very well as a fill in and has been a solid backup for the second year now. Burgess will be a bit cheaper but neither guy will cost peanuts to bring back. Williamson, when healthy is a better player than all 3 of those guys. It's going to be a tough decision. Do you cut Williamson, saving 6 mil (taking a 2+ mil cap hit) to resign Hewitt for 4+ mil? Once all is said and done, you're saving just under 2 mil for an inferior player in Hewitt. However, maybe there is less risk of injury with Hewitt? Maybe you structure a better contract with a slightly younger player? 

I think they hold on to Williamson, let Hewitt walk and bring back Burgess on a team friendly deal as a backup. They will find cap room elsewhere by cutting Roberts, Tru, and Winters. Hopefully Cashman stays healthy and slides in as Williamsons replacement the following year. I also expect them to let Robby walk and and Poole walk. Finding a cheaper replacement for Robby and Poole in FA and the draft.   

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3 hours ago, KRL said:

With Hewitt, Burgess and Cashman I'll be shocked if he isn't cut
in February to save $6 million in cap space.  Good player who got hurt at a bad time

Hewitt only had a one year deal though I think.

Burgess is the one that jumps out. Came out of nowhere and will definitely be in the plans.

Personally I would love to see this be the depth chart:

Mosley and Williamson with Cashman and Burgess as backups. REAL DEPTH that hasn't happened here before.

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42 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Hewitt only had a one year deal though I think.

Burgess is the one that jumps out. Came out of nowhere and will definitely be in the plans.

Personally I would love to see this be the depth chart:

Mosley and Williamson with Cashman and Burgess as backups. REAL DEPTH that hasn't happened here before.

Meh. I’d rather have “real depth” at a position that matters. Save the 6.5 million to target an offensive lineman or edge rusher where there is zero depth. The defense played decently with the guys they had. The focus and money needs to go to the offense. 

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6 hours ago, Ghost said:

It’s extremely unfortunate that Mosley and Williamson couldn’t be on the field together. That would’ve been a very good linebacker duo. Unfortunately, Gase had Williamson playing deep in a meaningless preseason game. 
 

Personally, I’d bring him back and focus on re-signing Jenkins. I’d also sign a CB and a pass rusher. 

If these guys could stay healthy with Mosley and  Williamson as starters and Burgess/Hewitt as rotation guys perhaps with Burgess sometimes at OLB since he seems pretty good in coverage we could be in real good shape there. We just need a consistent pass rusher even if just for obvious passing downs.

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2 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Agreed. Avery Williamson was a huge loss in the pre-season. The juice is worth the squeeze...the risk is worth the potential reward. Keep Avery. 

Definitely. The guy was our leader in tackles last year and seems to be a good locker room guy I’d definitely hold onto him 

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4 hours ago, KRL said:

With Hewitt, Burgess and Cashman I'll be shocked if he isn't cut
in February to save $6 million in cap space.  Good player who got hurt at a bad time

There was talk about his name being floated around in the preaseason, so they definitely are open to moving him.  cutting him makes the most sense to save the money, but it just sucks because he was a damn good linebacker that could have gotten back good value in a trade had he not been hurt.  

The only other option is gambling on him coming bakc and playing really well, then moving him before the deadline, or even in the preaseason for 2021 draft capital.

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6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No one is trading anywhere near a 3rd round pick for him. He hasn’t seen the field yet since a bad injury, so it’s no sure thing that specifically for all of 2020 he’ll already be as good as 2018/prior, and just as significantly he only has that one year left on his contract anyway.

He isn’t getting traded and isn’t taking a pay cut. He’s a Jet in 2020 or he’s getting cut to clear cap space. 

This, 100%.

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1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Hewitt only had a one year deal though I think.

Burgess is the one that jumps out. Came out of nowhere and will definitely be in the plans.

Personally I would love to see this be the depth chart:

Mosley and Williamson with Cashman and Burgess as backups. REAL DEPTH that hasn't happened here before.

What, Luke Falk and David Fales weren't enough depth for you?

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If Douglas decides he's dispensable I think a more realistic trade would be to move up from pick #110 to #103 (Carolina) in round 3.  

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5 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Because James Burgass, Neville Hewitt and Blake Cashman are plenty enough solid depth and we need as many picks as we can get.

this 

1.) Frees up 6.5 million we can out towards OL in FA.

2.) the young guys can smoothly continue to develop.

Didnt Luke Keuchly just retire? Avery Williamson would be a steal for Carolina as long as they’re willing to cough up a decent pick.

Avery Williamson is way better than Hewitt and Burgess. 

How can you even mention Cashman he is injury prone his entire collegiate career and first  year in the NFL no way in hell can you rely on him at the LB position. 

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ILB is easy to replace, losing both of our high priced guys did little to the defense.  We are committed to mosley so I would think avery is gone.  Like the guy, nice player but we can use the money on much more important positions.

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Based on what? 

 

Based on my experience with people that have suffered severe groin injuries like this ... They were always succeptable to reinjury ... for as long as I knew them. Not saying this for sure about CJ ... But it could be a possibility.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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over under on Blake Cashman's NFL career? 3 years? 

great player but jeez those shoulders 

 

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One would hope that Douglas has a plan for 2020, 2021, 2022.    One would presume has shared it with CJ and his Court, and it has been approved.

What the Jets do with AW will be a sign of what that plan is.

Avery was signed by Mac when he thought the Jets would be competitive.  To further cement Mac's role as someone who will never hold a real NFL job again, he was signed to replace Demario Davis, who could not cover RBs and TEs out of a 3-4 defense.  DD was a 4-3 All Pro LB last year. 

But in any event, if I was building the Jets for a longer term future, with the younger LBs, draft picks, and money sunk into Mosely and likely Adams for a long term deal, I am letting AW go, saving the cap space for 2020 and beyond and hopefully getting a draft pick.  Spend it on a long contract for Conklin or Thuney.  That will make the Jets better for the next 4 years.  If Mosely does not recover, then he is cut in 2021 and we draft replacements in the mid/lower rounds.

If CJ wants to win more games next year and possibly the expense of later years, keep AW and his cap spend.  

 

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The only way we get a third for him is if we send a 4th in return. Otherwise we’ll be lucky to fetch even a 4th. 

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1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Avery Williamson is way better than Hewitt and Burgess. 

How can you even mention Cashman he is injury prone his entire collegiate career and first  year in the NFL no way in hell can you rely on him at the LB position. 

Burgess and Hewitt are not that much worse and they’re continually developing players, I think we’re already seen the best of Avery. I also mentioned Blake because he is a solid young player. As far as injuries go, hes only depth, not like he’d be the guy we lean on all the time and if he was ever to get hurt again, we’d be down and out. 

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7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Burgess and Hewitt are not that much worse and they’re continually developing players, I think we’re already seen the best of Avery. I also mentioned Blake because he is a solid young player. As far as injuries go, hes only depth, not like he’d be the guy we lean on all the time and if he was ever to get hurt again, we’d be down and out. 

Avery Williamson solidifies the position. 

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10 hours ago, KRL said:

With Hewitt, Burgess and Cashman I'll be shocked if he isn't cut
in February to save $6 million in cap space.  Good player who got hurt at a bad time

Hewitt's an unrestricted FA, so it depends on what his market looks like, but assuming he can be resigned at a relatively reasonable price (i.e. 4M per or less), I'd assume so. If he'll cost anything close to Avery, they'll let him walk and just keep Williamson

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15 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Burgess and Hewitt are not that much worse and they’re continually developing players, I think we’re already seen the best of Avery. I also mentioned Blake because he is a solid young player. As far as injuries go, hes only depth, not like he’d be the guy we lean on all the time and if he was ever to get hurt again, we’d be down and out. 

I am not so sure.  I have said it a bunch of times, but these light fast guys often look good to the fans, but they can't take on blocks and that can be a problem.  I think Hewitt holds up pretty well, but I saw Burgess, Cashman and Luvu getting pushed around plenty.  I will defer to Williams and Douglas, but they may want another bigger LB.

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12 hours ago, Jetster said:

Provided this guy is 100% healthy when camp starts, could he return a 3rd rounder? His salary is only 6.5 Million which is very reasonable for a starter & from what I've seen watching the NFL there are a lot bad defenses out there. 

I could see JD dangling him to see what he could bring. If nothing transpires you keep him & have a good deep LB core with CJ back & all of the guys who got experience with all of the injuries we had. Sucks that our offense needs so much help because this defense is as close to dominant as you can get with a pass rusher & CB. 

Just amazing how Macc never moved around in the draft to target any needs. That's one thing I'll give Tannenbaum credit for, sure he had misses but he had somewhat of a clue. Macc just seemed like he picked guys regardless of our needs. How much better off would we be going into this coming draft with Josh Allen instead of QW? 

Why in the world would we want to trade a guy that was the second best player on defense in 2018? Why not keep him so he can make our defense that much better?

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20 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Agreed

Last time he was on the field he was one of our better defensive players.

Its a position where he is needed and at only 6 mil, 80+ mil of cap space why they rush to trade him for 30 cents on a dollar?

Have him play and have his trade value increase for next year if a trade is to be made

I think they'll keep him as well, unless Williams steps in and says extending/keeping Burgess or Hewitt - or both - assuming a contract can be kept at or below $3MM (which allows them to keep a younger starter for longer, not just for 2020, and fresher legs and depth security), and using the rest towards elsewhere, makes the whole greater. In particular if that extra is used on his side of the ball and/or allows him to keep some starter-level depth to rotate in & out with impunity. The idea could be well they merely looked like good depth, but would have looked a good deal better with CJ as the other starter calling the plays, and that's proper justification for signing him for so much $$$ in the first place.  

There's also the other possibility that the team is simply migrating away from starting 2 ILBs, and it's better served with a backup-level salary allowing this flexibility than worrying about regularly keeping an established every-down veteran starter on the sideline, which opens him up to second-guessing from fans, media, and even within his own locker room any time there's a positive play for the offense with a healthy Williamson level player looking pissed on the sideline. Truth is as much as I thought $17MM for an ILB was overkill at the time, and still do, it's even more overkill when he's just half of an ILB duo. It is easier to swallow, from an asset distribution standpoint, if he's the lone MLB (and holding his own in doing so, like before he got hurt).

What's done is done, but it's still tough to overlook that we outbid Baltimore's top offer by 50%, and even declined a lower $15MM amount on the LB franchise tag - typically reserved for edge rushers - despite starting a dirt-cheap QB of their own for the upcoming 3 seasons. Then they picked up a just-cut nobody FA in October, to platoon as MLBBC instead of trotting out Onwuasor every down, and still finished with the #3 defense (probably #1 since picking him up; nobody put up 500+ yds and 30+ points on them again, let alone back to back with the latter being the freaking Browns). So how necessary is a $17MM MLB then, if his own team can replace him with a by-committee pair of $2-3MM players at MLB and still field the league's stingiest defense? They arguably wouldn't have acquired (let alone acquired and then quickly extended at $14MM per) Marcus Peters - for a low 5th round pick and a special teams LB - if they matched or beat the Jets' offer for Mosley. Not without its coincidence, the Jets sure could use a starting CB in his prime, with Peters' elite ability, and that his new contract is a few million per year less than CJ's. Admittedly, for all his talent Peters is (or at least was) a nutbag - which Jets fans saw firsthand against KC - and has given up some big TDs in between his picks and breakups.

In the end, the decision on Williamson may not come right away. It's possible they keep him until the preseason, and if he just doesn't look the same yet, release him before final roster cutdowns. He has no guaranteed money left, prior knee injury or not, and anyway once he's medically cleared it's done. Only unfortunate part of that timing is it'll be 6 months after the cap room would have been more useful, though it could still prove to be a positive factor in an otherwise unrelated player trade-acquisition between August and the late October deadline. 

At this point it's impossible to say without knowing his progress physically. 

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This season proved just how important it is to have quality depth. If Williamson has returned to form, he's a Jet. He's probably the best pass coverage LB on the team, although the bar is set pretty low.

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On 1/16/2020 at 7:06 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

No one is trading anywhere near a 3rd round pick for him. He hasn’t seen the field yet since a bad injury, so it’s no sure thing that specifically for all of 2020 he’ll already be as good as 2018/prior, and just as significantly he only has that one year left on his contract anyway.

He isn’t getting traded and isn’t taking a pay cut. He’s a Jet in 2020 or he’s getting cut to clear cap space. 

 

My preference is to trade him for whatever we can get.  But if no one wants him at any price like you say, keep him.  I don't get the rush to cut Williamson, unless he isn't close to the same player he was post-injury. 

He was arguably the best player on the defense just 2 years ago.  I don't care how many ILB's we have.  He's our 2nd best one, so keep him if you can't trade him.

Outright cutting Williamson makes no sense whatsoever.

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41 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think they'll keep him as well, unless Williams steps in and says extending/keeping Burgess or Hewitt - or both - assuming a contract can be kept at or below $3MM (which allows them to keep a younger starter for longer, not just for 2020, and fresher legs and depth security), and using the rest towards elsewhere, makes the whole greater. In particular if that extra is used on his side of the ball and/or allows him to keep some starter-level depth to rotate in & out with impunity. The idea could be well they merely looked like good depth, but would have looked a good deal better with CJ as the other starter calling the plays, and that's proper justification for signing him for so much $$$ in the first place.  

There's also the other possibility that the team is simply migrating away from starting 2 ILBs, and it's better served with a backup-level salary allowing this flexibility than worrying about regularly keeping an established every-down veteran starter on the sideline, which opens him up to second-guessing from fans, media, and even within his own locker room any time there's a positive play for the offense with a healthy Williamson level player looking pissed on the sideline. Truth is as much as I thought $17MM for an ILB was overkill at the time, and still do, it's even more overkill when he's just half of an ILB duo. It is easier to swallow, from an asset distribution standpoint, if he's the lone MLB (and holding his own in doing so, like before he got hurt).

What's done is done, but it's still tough to overlook that we outbid Baltimore's top offer by 50%, and even declined a lower $15MM amount on the LB franchise tag - typically reserved for edge rushers - despite starting a dirt-cheap QB of their own for the upcoming 3 seasons. Then they picked up a just-cut nobody FA in October, to platoon as MLBBC instead of trotting out Onwuasor every down, and still finished with the #3 defense (probably #1 since picking him up; nobody put up 500+ yds and 30+ points on them again, let alone back to back with the latter being the freaking Browns). So how necessary is a $17MM MLB then, if his own team can replace him with a by-committee pair of $2-3MM players at MLB and still field the league's stingiest defense? They arguably wouldn't have acquired (let alone acquired and then quickly extended at $14MM per) Marcus Peters - for a low 5th round pick and a special teams LB - if they matched or beat the Jets' offer for Mosley. Not without its coincidence, the Jets sure could use a starting CB in his prime, with Peters' elite ability, and that his new contract is a few million per year less than CJ's. Admittedly, for all his talent Peters is (or at least was) a nutbag - which Jets fans saw firsthand against KC - and has given up some big TDs in between his picks and breakups.

In the end, the decision on Williamson may not come right away. It's possible they keep him until the preseason, and if he just doesn't look the same yet, release him before final roster cutdowns. He has no guaranteed money left, prior knee injury or not, and anyway once he's medically cleared it's done. Only unfortunate part of that timing is it'll be 6 months after the cap room would have been more useful, though it could still prove to be a positive factor in an otherwise unrelated player trade-acquisition between August and the late October deadline. 

At this point it's impossible to say without knowing his progress physically. 

Gotta disagree on the importance of Mosely. He makes the entire D better. He is paid not just for playing ILB. He is a great player. He's great because he's a leader and he makes game changing plays. He's the guy that steps up and gets it done when we're all watching the game and thinking "we really need someone to make a play here." I guarantee John Harbaugh was missing Mosely while Derrick Henry was running through and over the Raven D.

Was he overpaid? Yes. All top tier free agents are overpaid, especially when you are asking them to come to a team that is somewhere in the spectrum from rebuilding to bad. 

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1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Gotta disagree on the importance of Mosely. He makes the entire D better. He is paid not just for playing ILB. He is a great player. He's great because he's a leader and he makes game changing plays. He's the guy that steps up and gets it done when we're all watching the game and thinking "we really need someone to make a play here." I guarantee John Harbaugh was missing Mosely while Derrick Henry was running through and over the Raven D.

Was he overpaid? Yes. All top tier free agents are overpaid, especially when you are asking them to come to a team that is somewhere in the spectrum from rebuilding to bad. 

That's fine; it's a matter of opinion, not fact. My feeling is we already had a good, veteran ILB - still very young - capable of running the D. It's not like the preseason choice was Mosley or...nothing but a pair of high-end backups (who ultimately ended up starting all season anyway). 

No doubt about the lack of bargains for FA probowlers in March. But we didn't have an all-or-none decision, and the team needed several good starters all over more than 2 great players (Mosley and Bell) just 1 offseason after setting fire to big bucks for Tru Johnson, plus hanging onto Leo for a 9-figure year instead of moving him and clearing enough space to buy someone else with a longer term future here.

Yes we missed Mosley all year, but we also missed Williamson all year and I think the latter's absence is vastly glossed over in comparison. The presence of either of them would have been of immense help; not just Mosley. Maybe I just didn't see CJM as a necessary $16MM/year upgrade over a second ILB with a young Williamson already locked in and not disappointing. Not nearly as necessary as finding another CB (with the writing already on the wall for Tru Johnson's 2020 release), more OL pickups than just trading for damaged-goods Osemele and re-signing Harrison. 

If he's so necessary, why was it Baltimore wouldn't even tag him for one more year? They had the cap room. I'm sure they'd like a MLB upgrade themselves now, but they didn't even feel the need to throw us a bone offer of a day 3 pick for Williamson after we went all in balls deep on Mosley. They were fine going with guys frankly no one outside Baltimore (and maybe a couple nerd football-stat sites) has heard of. Still had the league's stingiest defense once they went with a committee approach to replace him in October. Fact is they were an 18ppg defense with him, and an 18ppg defense without him. What made him so valuable wasn't just his play, but that they got his play for $2MM/year x 4 years, plus a $9MM 5th year option. With Mosley gobbling up $17MM/year the defense would be proportionally lacking elsewhere. 

Again, what's done is done. It's not where I would have invested on this defense (or this roster in general), but at least Mosley is a terrific player. I'm going to have to choose to look at that investment as: better him than blowing that same money on another Trumaine Johnson type, just mailing it in after being guaranteed one final multi-year cash-in contract, itself after back-to-back franchise tags from a team that valued him, but didn't trust paying him in anything other than a show-me contract year every year for 3 years running.

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Gotta disagree on the importance of Mosely. He makes the entire D better. He is paid not just for playing ILB. He is a great player. He's great because he's a leader and he makes game changing plays. He's the guy that steps up and gets it done when we're all watching the game and thinking "we really need someone to make a play here." I guarantee John Harbaugh was missing Mosely while Derrick Henry was running through and over the Raven D.

Was he overpaid? Yes. All top tier free agents are overpaid, especially when you are asking them to come to a team that is somewhere in the spectrum from rebuilding to bad. 

Mosely has to play this year.  He could be great.  But he needs to play at least 12 games at a high level.  

You just wonder how much these guys train after they sign the contract.  He was never really hurt until last year.  

They said "groin," but it must have been hernia or something. 

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