Tony Pauline on Leveon Bell+more

[SAR I]

16 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

After years of learning under Gase... Gase might just be a terrible play caller but good coach.  Hence why Manning excelled under him. 

Under Gase's tutelage, Manning got better, Tannehill got better, Darnold got better.

I'm sensing a good trend here.

SAR I

[Skeptable]

Just now, SAR I said:

Under Gase's tutelage, Manning got better, Tannehill got better, Darnold got better.

I'm sensing a good trend here.

SAR I

I agree but I hate his play calling at times... 

[joewilly12]

35 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Shut up.  You know what I'm trying to say.  Stick to posting memes.  Stay in your lane.

SAR I

Bring facts to the table instead of the drivel you post on this board all the time. 

You don't like being called out or proven wrong. 

You know nothing about football. 

You are a PSL,ticket,stadium fan boy. 

Are you really up voting your own posts. 

You now owe me 2 beers. 

joewilly12 

[SAR I]

33 minutes ago, Drums said:

Not sure how I feel about this 

You should feel that Adam Gase, Gregg Williams, and Joe Douglas are highly regarded NFL stars and they know what's what with Le'Veon Bell.  They see him in practice now for six months.  They've analyzed the film.

If the rumors are true and we are trying to part ways, its a good thing, not a bad thing.  It means either Bell is shot or we aren't building an OL to suit his style, a style that at his age is only going to slow him down as the seasons go by, not make him better.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Bring facts to the table instead of the drivel you post on this board all the time. 

You don't like being called out or proven wrong. 

You know nothing about football. 

You are a PSL,ticket,stadium fan boy. 

You now owe me 2 beers. 

joewilly12 

Never reply to one of my posts or speak to me again.

SAR I

[pdxgreen]

He'll be playing for us next year behind a rebuilt OL and this thread will still be at the top of the page.

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Never reply to one of my posts or speak to me again.

SAR I

Shut up. 

Stubhub bub. 

It's 3 beers now. 

joewilly12 

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I agree but I hate his play calling at times... 

Thing is, his playcalling was outstanding when he was in Denver.  That's what got him the Miami job.  In Miami, he went 10-6 and made the playoffs.  Here in NJ, tough sledding with all the injuries yet rallied us to a 6-2 finish.

The jury is still out.  But to say that he's a bum is ridiculous and to say that its his fault that a running back can't hit a hole is ludicrous.  Bell refused to change his running style despite knowing full well they were one of the worst units in the NFL.  That's on him.  Where is his ability to adjust?  Where is his ability to figure out a way to be productive?  Gase and Darnold were hamstrung by his constant zero gains and losses.  Someone has to call out Le'Veon.  It's not on Gase. 

SAR I

[CTM]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I can't imagine Bell not being here one more season.

Costs 15.5M to keep, 19M to cut.

 

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

This is my point to ctm. This wouldn’t be a cost avoidance. Just egg on the face.

Not really accurate

1) Thats a pre June 1 figure,  post June 1 has a cap savings. Sportrac has below which doesn't really match OTC for pre June 1, but regardless there is a league year benefit to waiting after 6/1 resulting in cap savings (OTC doesn't have post 6/1 cut figure for some reason). I haven't kept up on cap rule intricacies but I'm almost certain this still exists and Sportrac seems to confirm.

2) Further, both sites agree there is a cap saving in a trade scenario, regardless of whether or not that trade occurs before or after 6/1. This is due to not all of the money being a pro rated signing bonus and some of the guaranteed money being in the form of a guaranteed base salary (which gets traded with Bell, but accelerates if cut)

As usual ape the only one with egg on his hairy face is you. At some point it becomes good money after bad, particularly if you are of the mindset that the dude is shot. 

Sportrac

 

OTC

[CTM]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Why is that?  I thought cutting and trading were generally the same thing, cap wise.  Is there additional non prorated guaranteed money this year?

EDIT: I'll revise my thinking on this.  Take a 4 and 9M cap savings if you can get it.

See above, it's because some of his 27M guaranteed pay is in the form of 2020 base salary guarantee which is traded with the player, but accelerates if cut

[nycdan]

I doubt Bell plays anywhere else next season.  But if he were trade-able, two teams come to mind.  Two playoff teams that would be substantially better with Bell and where he could be the piece to put them over the top. 

KC and HOU.  In Houston's case, Bell would make Duke Johnson redundant so maybe he comes back with a pick.  In KC's case, could you imagine Bell added to that team?  Holy crap!  They may not need him to win it all this year, but I could see them easily burning a 2nd rounder to get Bell and score 40 points per week.

[jetsons]

14 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Thing is, his playcalling was outstanding when he was in Denver.  That's what got him the Miami job.  In Miami, he went 10-6 and made the playoffs.  Here in NJ, tough sledding with all the injuries yet rallied us to a 6-2 finish.

The jury is still out.  But to say that he's a bum is ridiculous and to say that its his fault that a running back can't hit a hole is ludicrous.  Bell refused to change his running style despite knowing full well they were one of the worst units in the NFL.  That's on him.  Where is his ability to adjust?  Where is his ability to figure out a way to be productive?  Gase and Darnold were hamstrung by his constant zero gains and losses.  Someone has to call out Le'Veon.  It's not on Gase. 

SAR I

Okay... in his 1st yr as HC in Miami gase's offense ranked 24th... in his 2nd yr they ranked 25th... in his 3rd they ranked 31st... in his 1st yr with the Jets they ranked 32nd... Dead Last... gase has 1 yr to prove his worth...  2020 or Bust.

Wrong... that's on gase... you as a HC Adjust to your personnel... Not the other way around.

[greenwichjetfan]

Joe trades Bell, gets a good pick and uses it to draft an impact offensive player. Meanwhile, Bell crushes it on his new team, thereby strengthening Joe’s suspicion that Gase’s career track record as a HC/OC may be non-random. Joe uses this in conjunction with Gase’s career failures as a head coach and examples of other players who have fared better after leaving Gase to create a mosaic of reasons to move on. Mid-way through another injury-filled, OL excuse-making, underachieving season, Joe visits Gase in his office and asks him to name a play-call on 2nd and long. Gase, of course, calls for an A-gap dive. Joe thanks him for his service and asks him to pack up his smell salts. The gasologists; direct descendants of penningtologists, whither away. Balance is restored to JetNation evermore. 

[Beerfish]

Mike McCagnan  just before each draft:

[jetstream23]

35 minutes ago, SAR I said:

You should feel that Adam Gase, Gregg Williams, and Joe Douglas are highly regarded NFL stars and they know what's what with Le'Veon Bell.  They see him in practice now for six months.  They've analyzed the film.

If the rumors are true and we are trying to part ways, its a good thing, not a bad thing.  It means either Bell is shot or we aren't building an OL to suit his style, a style that at his age is only going to slow him down as the seasons go by, not make him better.

SAR I

I saw you tell someone to "stay in his lane"....but this post seems like you're not even on the highway, Scott.  I usually agree with a lot of what you say, but calling those three guys highly regarded NFL stars is just factually incorrect.  Perhaps Williams is a star as a Defensive Coordinator (debatable but he's in the ballpark), but Gase hasn't proven to be anything close to that yet and Joe Douglas is a complete unknown.

But I agree that if there's a disconnect between the scheme the Jets want to run and the way Bell plays then it's best to move on.  I guess my question is what kind of rushing attack does Adam Gase want given that Bell was successful before he got to the Jets and bad once he got here, and in Miami Kenyon Drake was bad there and then excellent once he went someplace else?  Maybe it's the scheme that needs to change if it doesn't work for players that are succeeding everywhere else?

 

[jetstream23]

39 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I doubt Bell plays anywhere else next season.  But if he were trade-able, two teams come to mind.  Two playoff teams that would be substantially better with Bell and where he could be the piece to put them over the top. 

KC and HOU.  In Houston's case, Bell would make Duke Johnson redundant so maybe he comes back with a pick.  In KC's case, could you imagine Bell added to that team?  Holy crap!  They may not need him to win it all this year, but I could see them easily burning a 2nd rounder to get Bell and score 40 points per week.

Is there a team with a similarly older but talented player that's expensive at a position the Jets need where a trade could essentially be a swap of bad contracts for players that can still play and start in the NFL?  Maybe that's what Joe D should be looking at...finding a team with an expensive guy they want to get rid of but maybe he's still an average starting caliber player....a WR, an OG, an OLB, etc?

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Kenyan Drake couldn't get on the field for him.

You guys making comments about speed and such are kinda clueless. Gase has left a ton of good backs underused or misused in his wake. This isn’t a case of not having good players. This is part of Gases reputation.

Agreed.  Why does Bell do great before the Jets but not once he gets here with Gase?  Why does Drake not do well with Gase in Miami but then lights it up Arizona under a rookie Head Coach?  I'm not a Gase Hater like many around here but those are very valid concerns that, even with the Jets offensive line woes, are hard to ignore.

[Sonny Werblin]

4 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

The question is this. Can the Jets move Bell’s contract? As someone said to me at the Shrine Game practoces, the team that trades for Bell will be a franchise that’s not paying a quarterback or edge rusher a big contract.

 

This is interesting. Let's first rule out any AFC East teams. How about Tampa Bay?

But the Pats sound like the team

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

By running straight ahead through the same offensive line, Bilal Powell ran for 21% more yards per carry.

One can argue that he would have had the same pathetic 3 TD's if he were the starter.  And Darnold would have 5 less interceptions as he wouldn't have been in 3rd and long seemingly on every set of downs.

SAR I

Powell got to run the bell gameplan used by Pitt. bell got to run the Gase gameplan all season. 

 

[jetstream23]

Wasn't there a rumor that the Steelers tried to trade for Bell in the middle of the season when Connor got hurt?  Or am I misremembering that?

If so, why not pull the trigger then?

[peekskill68]

1 hour ago, Skeptable said:

I agree but I hate his play calling at times... 

Good point.  Some guys can coach technique and draw Xs and Os on a blackboard but can't manage the flow of a game and make adjustments. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

19 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I saw you tell someone to "stay in his lane"....but this post seems like you're not even on the highway, Scott.  I usually agree with a lot of what you say, but calling those three guys highly regarded NFL stars is just factually incorrect.  Perhaps Williams is a star as a Defensive Coordinator (debatable but he's in the ballpark), but Gase hasn't proven to be anything close to that yet and Joe Douglas is a complete unknown.

But I agree that if there's a disconnect between the scheme the Jets want to run and the way Bell plays then it's best to move on.  I guess my question is what kind of rushing attack does Adam Gase want given that Bell was successful before he got to the Jets and bad once he got here, and in Miami Kenyon Drake was bad there and then excellent once he went someplace else?  Maybe it's the scheme that needs to change if it doesn't work for players that are succeeding everywhere else?

 

Bingo

Gase is the one that needs to coach. The players play.

[Skeptable]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Thing is, his playcalling was outstanding when he was in Denver.  That's what got him the Miami job.  In Miami, he went 10-6 and made the playoffs.  Here in NJ, tough sledding with all the injuries yet rallied us to a 6-2 finish.

The jury is still out.  But to say that he's a bum is ridiculous and to say that its his fault that a running back can't hit a hole is ludicrous.  Bell refused to change his running style despite knowing full well they were one of the worst units in the NFL.  That's on him.  Where is his ability to adjust?  Where is his ability to figure out a way to be productive?  Gase and Darnold were hamstrung by his constant zero gains and losses.  Someone has to call out Le'Veon.  It's not on Gase. 

SAR I

 

5 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Good point.  Some guys can coach technique and draw Xs and Os on a blackboard but can't manage the flow of a game and make adjustments. 

See, I thought it was more play design and scheming that got him the job and that Manning did the play calling... But maybe your right. Tough to tell with what this team dealt with this year

[Dcat]

4 hours ago, TNJet said:

Can we part ways with Gase and keep Bell instead?

Post of the year.  Right there.  January 16th.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, jetsons said:

really... you down vote a Fact... What A DOUCHEBAG.

Hey, enough with buttfumbling every post you merely disagree with. That you’d downvote a factual explanation on the cap is no less obnoxious. Mature up or leave the site until you do.

You’ve been doing this trash routine for too long and no one is amused, except maybe @Skeptable, whom this same message can almost go to verbatim. It’s like whenever I see a buttfumble that isn’t made in jest - in particular when I see them post after post in the same thread - I know there’s at least a 50-50 chance it’s one or both of you two. 

Try it with me now in retaliation and you’re gone. No need to reply, as it’s not a point to debate. Just cut it out.

[Dcat]

Frankly,  I think there may be stuff about Bell and his relationship with the Jets that we don't know.  Just rumors/heresay from twitter.  

[fusionCA]

3 hours ago, SAR I said:

A HOF caliber RB would figure out a way to get 100 yards in a game behind a below average line, wouldn't he?

Last year, Isaiah Crowell averaged 4.8 yards per carry and scored 6 TD's.  Bell was 3.2 and 3 TD's.

SAR I

now its a below average line?

 

for months i hear that Darnold cant do anything because the Jets has the worst oline ever? lol

[Fantasy Island]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Douglas is going to purge every Maccagnan signing from the roster. It's gonna be a bloodbath, 

 

Then start with Gase

[Lupz27]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Douglas is going to purge every Maccagnan signing from the roster. It's gonna be a bloodbath, 

 

Sweep the leg Douglas 

[BornJetsFan1983]

Gase wants shonne greene

[CTM]

4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Why does Bell do great before the Jets but not once he gets here with Gase?

1) 2 years older at a position known to breakdown right around Bells age

2) was ran into the ground in Pittsburgh particularly his last year.

3) Speaking of his last year he saw a clear regression in all of his per carry stats (nearly a 20% drop in YPC)

4) Strong Oline vs Weak Oline 

5) HoF QB putting up top 3-8 numbers vs young QB putting up bottom 3 numbers

Naturally the only logical conclusion here is that Gase sucking is the sole reason for Bell sucking because we dont like Gase and  Drake played well this year 

 

 

[Ghost]

Bell is NOT the issue. Are you guys crazy? Our sh*tty offensive line is the damn issue. Put him behind the Titans OL and I promise you Bell will get 1,500 all purpose yards. 

[GREENBEAN]

Well yeah

Ya think?
I’d sure like to see what $17 mil gets ya these days


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetster]

I almost feel like no one actually watched the Jets & Bells runs this year. The dude definitely lost a step & any burst he had during his hiatus. 

He ran side to side & this offense is designed for a one cut runner to get positive yards. After numerous games of losing yards by tip toeing around behind the LOS you started to see him make quicker decisions which I'm sure came from the instruction of Gase after watching film.

While Bell kept his cool & remained a Good teammate I'm sure it rankled him a bit that he was told his running style doesn't work here. Gase didn't want him for that reason & im sure the money didn't help either. Any Jet fan that believes we're better off with Bell & his contract or an above average Olineman instead doesn't understand football. 

When was Le'veon Bell ever associated with a Super Bowl? Joe Douglas is trying to win a Super Bowl. You don't do that paying a RB an astronomical amount of cap space. Fix the Oline, add some stud WRs & get some younger faster RBs that can take advantage of the lanes that will open when defenses have to cover our skill players because our QB knows the offense like the back of his hand. Continuity, continuity, continuity & being surrounded by playmakers with SPEED. Bell isn't fast anymore after a million carries, a huge bank account & his interest in music. The Jets are now a hungry young team looking to fill a roster with guys that LOVE football. 

I'm completely on board if JD finds a way to move Bell & his cap eating salary. I care about the next 10 years not just 2020. 

[T0mShane]

24 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Ya think?
I’d sure like to see what $17 mil gets ya these days


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

No, I mean that’s a good point in that we’re obviously not wiping out all of Macc’s terrible signings