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varjet

The Anderson (and Shell) Conundrum

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19 hours ago, varjet said:

So this is where I get lost-if the Jets have one of the worst, if not the worst, WR corps without Anderson, and they have not renewed him yet and many in the know don’t think he is worth the risk of a large contract, why would another team pay him a large contract?

Don't get the risk angle at this point.  He a traffic incident how long ago?  And was cleared.  Other than that he hasn't been a problem or even a distraction.  So don't think the risk will be the kind that stops teams from making offers.

Not having made an offer for Anderson doesn't change a thing.  Almost every FA, more than a few OL that we've debated as players to go after, even getting into a bidding war to sign, we're offered contracts by their teams.  

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Remember when Sammy Watkins was available and many here said he's overweight he's a problem. 

He looked damn good yesterday and is going to the Super Bowl. 

The WR position is so bad because of the crappy GM's this team has had over the years. 

JD has a lot of bad to fix. 

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13 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Remember when Sammy Watkins was available and many here said he's overweight he's a problem. 

He looked damn good yesterday and is going to the Super Bowl. 

The WR position is so bad because of the crappy GM's this team has had over the years. 

JD has a lot of bad to fix. 

Sammy Watkins is actually younger than Robby Anderson. Sammy Watkins is also getting only 600 yards per year in an amazing offense.

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8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Anderson is for sure worth keeping as long as he does not ask for something out of line.

The problem with Anderson is that although he is a great deep threat he does not translate his speed into big plays on shorter passes.

We see the guys on KC get a short medium pass and have the potential to go all the way.

As for Shell, maybe back up fodder but after a promising start to his career he has tailed off.

Is it really that bad if he’s overpaid by $2-3MM/year if only 1 year of it is guaranteed?

To each his own, but with a non-slot-WR corps about to be nonexistent entering FA, and wanting to eliminate still more excuses for Darnold’s year 3 out of the gate, it’s a low concern for me. Is Darnold worth extending at some $35MM+ or more? I don’t want Darnold’s body of work to still be an excuse-laden ‘incomplete’ after 3 years because ooh Robby Anderson’s 2018-2019 extension-comparison value is really only $11-12MM; so we only gave him a rookie and cheap DT starting, to line up any wider than Crowder (who’s fine but does get the dropsies) and Herndon (who certainly hasn’t proven himself reliable yet).

The team may have another reason to move on that we fans don’t yet know about, but then why turn down a 4th rounder for him in late October?

Two years fully guaranteed at $14MM?

Yeah I’d probably balk at that, too.

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I hate to use the term one-trick Pony for Anderson but that's basically what he is. He's an oddity / luxury. Granted his straight-line speed is probably top five in the league, Yet that only seems to matter when he slips through coverage and gets open. When this does happen nobody is catching him.

However the rest of his skill-set is severely lacking. Poor route Runner,  no jump ball skills, no strength to fight for the ball, doesn't start and stop on a dime, no Quick Cuts or juking moves. He usually seems to be going down whenever he catches the ball in traffic. He's worth 8 or 9 million a year and that's it.

As I've said before a big name on this team will be getting traded for draft picks. I would love to see Joe Douglas somehow finagle Henry Ruggs III AND Laviska Shenault.

 I know it's a pipe dream but we'd have a dangerous damn offense!!! Yes I know we obviously need O line! That's a given.. and Shell is just a slightly above-average JAG.

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50 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Sammy Watkins is actually younger than Robby Anderson. Sammy Watkins is also getting only 600 yards per year in an amazing offense.

Sign me up for Sammy Watkins instead of Robby Anderson. 

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17 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’ll be interested to see what Anderson could get on the open market. He’s been available at the trade deadline for the past two years and the best offer we’ve heard about both years was a fourth rounder, which seems odd considering the stats. Either he’s an outright jerkoff off the field, or he’s just so unreliable on the field (in terms of running routes) that teams don’t want him as anything more than a #3. Remember, he’s a 6’3” dude with sticky hands who runs a legitimate 4.3/40, and he still went undrafted. There’s something not right with the guy

I am curious to see what he gets on the open market as well. Teams do hate trading draft picks and Anderson’s never been a proven commodity.

I’m not surprised he’s only warranted a fourth in trade negotiations. You’re talking a two deadlines where the acquiring team gets half a year before FA, one at least was RFA. Never broke 1000 yards, never more than 7 TD’s, off field has been a problem and he’s a suspension risk, not a big predraft pedigree.

Also in terms of the draft, believe his big issue was his hands are off the chart small for a WR, teams don’t usually take risks on somebody that unusual unless they were an absolute stud which he wasn’t. There was talk of him moving to corner because of the hands. And he’s a twig.

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

As far as Shell’s concerned, I think it’s a long shot for him to re-sign here after Gase benched him, while healthy, on a line that wasn’t any good without him, in a contract year. Now that I just said that, he’ll probably sign an extension tomorrow, lol

You make a good point about the benching. Personally, I think a blind man could see that the problems with the Jets OL were in the middle of it. Yeah, Beachum and Shell aren't titans or anything, but they their issues paled in comparison to the middle of the OL at the beginning of the year.

I've ragged on Winters and Kalil and Olymele (sp) less so, but then he got hurt. Once those three guys were gone, the OL played much better and fairly consistently, regardless of who played RT. Yeah, the rookie had more damaging breakdowns but Shell wasn't all that much better. I think the thing that I don't like about Winters and Kalil and Shell too is that they aren't POWER players. They aren't going to knock you on your ass.

I want the Jets OL to knock you the F*Ck out. No more "are we gonna get this yard?" I want an OL like Tennessee's, like San Frans. Not no shrimpo, "at least their pass blocking has improved..." NO. I want the Cowboys OL. The Saints. I want JUMBOS!! [no, not the 80s jumbos lol]. I want there to be NO EXCUSES for Sam Darnold and his elite receiving corps.

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Robby is likely gone. I thank him for his service with the Jets and wish him well. He's got to get as much as he can. This is his last shot at a big contract.

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17 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I’ll be interested to see what Anderson could get on the open market. He’s been available at the trade deadline for the past two years and the best offer we’ve heard about both years was a fourth rounder, which seems odd considering the stats. Either he’s an outright jerkoff off the field, or he’s just so unreliable on the field (in terms of running routes) that teams don’t want him as anything more than a #3. Remember, he’s a 6’3” dude with sticky hands who runs a legitimate 4.3/40, and he still went undrafted. There’s something not right with the guy

what wrong with robbie?  his basic problem is he doesn't run routes right.  i watched hill and even sammy watkins. hill, especially, makes some real crisp changes in direction.  watkins not so much.  robbie doesn't seems to be lazy when approaching cuts and lets the db's catch up.  i have no idea where he will be in terms of offers.  the transition tag is 15 million and the franchise is 19 million.  that seems pretty high for a guy with a 50% catch ratio and not able to use his speed to his greatest advantage.

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Pass on resigning both

 

Upgrade at WR with Ceedee Lamb

 

Upgrade at RT with Conklin

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23 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Sign me up for Sammy Watkins instead of Robby Anderson. 

Sammy is a glorified possession receiver at this point

 

 If you want to sign him and draft Lamb that makes sense

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3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Sammy is a glorified possession receiver at this point

 

 If you want to sign him and draft Lamb that makes sense

Priority for me is a #1 WR 

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5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Priority for me is a #1 WR 

Only way to get one is via draft

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Just now, Philc1 said:

Only way to get one is via draft

Agree and then sign free agents for the supporting cast. 

#1 WR drafted____________________________________________

WR Jamison Crowder 

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2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

What is with if everyone doesn’t fawn over a player then they hate that player?

This.

I'd be fine with Anderson as our dedicated #3 WR at WR #3 pricing.  He'd fill that role brilliantly.

I prefer more and better from my #1 and #2 than what Anderson provides.  I just don't see him as much more than a single-threat deep guy on a team with actual talent.  He's only our #1 because we've sucked at drafting/signing WR's for 15+ years and counting. 

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3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Agree and then sign free agents for the supporting cast. 

#1 WR drafted____________________________________________

WR Jamison Crowder 

Crowder was a good signing.  I’m down for resigning Thomas to a one year deal or even Sammy as the #2. Our future #1 WR is in this draft

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20 hours ago, varjet said:

We actively debate as to whether Robby Anderson would be worth a large multi-year contract with the Jets.

Without Anderson, the Jets’ WRs would be Crowder and V. Smith.   The Jets obviously need a WR, even if they draft one or two.

It would make me a little jittery to pay Anderson a large contract.

So this is where I get lost-if the Jets have one of the worst, if not the worst, WR corps without Anderson, and they have not renewed him yet and many in the know don’t think he is worth the risk of a large contract, why would another team pay him a large contract?  Do they take greater risks?  Are their WRs even worse?   Maybe Anderson is not worth as much money as people think, and the Jets could sign him for a more fair/lesser amount of money.

I think the same thing could be said about Shell, even as a backup.  If a team with an OL as bad as the Jets don’t think that Shell is worth a lot of money, why would another team?

And the Jets have been watching Robby and Shell for four years.  I just don’t understand.  

Teams are going to pay Anderson because that is what happens with good veteran players, they get big contacts in free agency.

Paul RIchardson makes $ 8 million per year, Adam Humphries makes $9 million, Sterling Shephard makes over $10, Tyrell Williams makes $11 million.  Sammy Watkins who is repeatedly mentioned in this thread makes $16 million per year.  

The fact is Robby is just as good of a player as those guys.  He isnt in the top tier (Julio, Davonte, Hopkins) or the Keenan Allen, Diggs, Theilin category but put him on the chiefs and hes just as good as Watkins without the injury history. 

As for Shell, he isnt as good of a player as Anderson so it will be interesting to see how his contract situation plays out.  Hes an above average starter, but far from deserving of a big contract and he isnt really versatile enough as he struggles a lot at LT.  Id rather pay Robby and let him walk.

If he comes back at $10-11 million per season, that is fine with me.  

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Top 25 WRs by average $ per year:

Player Team Age Avg $ / year
Julio Jones Falcons 31 $22,000,000
Michael Thomas Saints 27 $19,250,000
Tyreek Hill Chiefs 26 $18,000,000
Odell Beckham Jr. Browns 28 $18,000,000
Mike Evans Buccaneers 27 $16,500,000
DeAndre Hopkins Texans 28 $16,200,000
Brandin Cooks Rams 27 $16,200,000
Adam Thielen Vikings 30 $16,200,000
Sammy Watkins Chiefs 27 $16,000,000
Jarvis Landry Browns 28 $15,100,000
A.J. Green Bengals 32 $15,000,000
Davante Adams Packers 28 $14,500,000
Stefon Diggs Vikings 27 $14,400,000
Allen Robinson Bears 27 $14,000,000
T.Y. Hilton Colts 31 $13,000,000
Alshon Jeffery Eagles 30 $13,000,000
Larry Fitzgerald Cardinals 37 $11,500,000
Keenan Allen Chargers 28 $11,250,000
Tyrell Williams Raiders 28 $11,100,000
Emmanuel Sanders 49ers 33 $11,000,000
Tyler Boyd Bengals 26 $10,750,000
Tyler Lockett Seahawks 28 $10,600,000
Sterling Shepard Giants 26 $10,250,000
DeVante Parker Dolphins 27 $10,166,667
Devin Funchess Colts 26 $10,000,000

 

Robby Anderson will be 27 in May.  So age wise he would compare to Davante Adams, Stefon Diggs and Allen Robinson on the high side of the $13-$15M range.  Paid better than Keenan Allen, Tyrell Williams and Tyler Boyd.  Statistically he compares closer to the bottom of that list.  A base salary in the $9M-$11M range is more appropriate than $13M+, with escalators and incentives for 1000+ yards receiving, double digit TDs, pro bowl selection, 70+ catches etc, that could take him into the $12M-$13M range.

 

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Top 25 WRs by average $ per year:
Player Team Age Avg $ / year
Julio Jones Falcons 31 $22,000,000
Michael Thomas Saints 27 $19,250,000
Tyreek Hill Chiefs 26 $18,000,000
Odell Beckham Jr. Browns 28 $18,000,000
Mike Evans Buccaneers 27 $16,500,000
DeAndre Hopkins Texans 28 $16,200,000
Brandin Cooks Rams 27 $16,200,000
Adam Thielen Vikings 30 $16,200,000
Sammy Watkins Chiefs 27 $16,000,000
Jarvis Landry Browns 28 $15,100,000
A.J. Green Bengals 32 $15,000,000
Davante Adams Packers 28 $14,500,000
Stefon Diggs Vikings 27 $14,400,000
Allen Robinson Bears 27 $14,000,000
T.Y. Hilton Colts 31 $13,000,000
Alshon Jeffery Eagles 30 $13,000,000
Larry Fitzgerald Cardinals 37 $11,500,000
Keenan Allen Chargers 28 $11,250,000
Tyrell Williams Raiders 28 $11,100,000
Emmanuel Sanders 49ers 33 $11,000,000
Tyler Boyd Bengals 26 $10,750,000
Tyler Lockett Seahawks 28 $10,600,000
Sterling Shepard Giants 26 $10,250,000
DeVante Parker Dolphins 27 $10,166,667
Devin Funchess Colts 26 $10,000,000
 
Robby Anderson will be 27 in May.  So age wise he would compare to Davante Adams, Stefon Diggs and Allen Robinson on the high side of the $13-$15M range.  Paid better than Keenan Allen, Tyrell Williams and Tyler Boyd.  Statistically he compares closer to the bottom of that list.  A base salary in the $9M-$11M range is more appropriate than $13M+, with escalators and incentives for 1000+ yards receiving, double digit TDs, pro bowl selection, 70+ catches etc, that could take him into the $12M-$13M range.
 
Yup ... 8mil per with no 1 wr (receptions and tds) escalators that could bring it to 13

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12 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

 

He's a #3 WR on most teams and isn't worth more than $10 million a year. 

He runs bad routes,gives up on the ball,doesnt fight for the ball and so far is just a long ball threat. 

We desperately need a legitimate #1 WR. 

Sammy Watkins says otherwise.

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Sammy Watkins says otherwise.
So do Funchess, Parker and Cooper ... 10 mill is 2 mill.too much

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On 1/19/2020 at 3:56 PM, T0mShane said:

I’ll be interested to see what Anderson could get on the open market. He’s been available at the trade deadline for the past two years and the best offer we’ve heard about both years was a fourth rounder, which seems odd considering the stats. Either he’s an outright jerkoff off the field, or he’s just so unreliable on the field (in terms of running routes) that teams don’t want him as anything more than a #3. Remember, he’s a 6’3” dude with sticky hands who runs a legitimate 4.3/40, and he still went undrafted. There’s something not right with the guy

Sticky Hands ? I think it's more of the alligator arms over the middle cutting off routes over the middle because he's a puss and Zero ability to break a tackle or block in any way. With this years results in the late season and the playoffs I would not doubt for a second the NFL starts leaning toward the Possession offense and running game and honestly Robbie just does not fit those schemes. Teams want guys that can do multiple things not one trick Robbie.

Robbie made a few very nice catches this year and at times even made a few nice contested ones but that was not the norm before this year. If anyone was within a few feet to contest the pass is was almost certainly not caught or a drop. He can't run a WR screen because he gets tossed like a rag doll. Did everyone forget this stuff because he made some nice plays in a contract year ? He's a number 3 and  that's about it.

Also he gives up on plays when the QB is running away from him and in trouble. I've seen him do it a few times this year and I'm not sure how many times he's done it... All-22 would show that more than we get to see it in live games but I would not doubt that being an issue as well.

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8 hours ago, nyjbuddy said:

Top 25 WRs by average $ per year:

Player Team Age Avg $ / year
Julio Jones Falcons 31 $22,000,000
Michael Thomas Saints 27 $19,250,000
Tyreek Hill Chiefs 26 $18,000,000
Odell Beckham Jr. Browns 28 $18,000,000
Mike Evans Buccaneers 27 $16,500,000
DeAndre Hopkins Texans 28 $16,200,000
Brandin Cooks Rams 27 $16,200,000
Adam Thielen Vikings 30 $16,200,000
Sammy Watkins Chiefs 27 $16,000,000
Jarvis Landry Browns 28 $15,100,000
A.J. Green Bengals 32 $15,000,000
Davante Adams Packers 28 $14,500,000
Stefon Diggs Vikings 27 $14,400,000
Allen Robinson Bears 27 $14,000,000
T.Y. Hilton Colts 31 $13,000,000
Alshon Jeffery Eagles 30 $13,000,000
Larry Fitzgerald Cardinals 37 $11,500,000
Keenan Allen Chargers 28 $11,250,000
Tyrell Williams Raiders 28 $11,100,000
Emmanuel Sanders 49ers 33 $11,000,000
Tyler Boyd Bengals 26 $10,750,000
Tyler Lockett Seahawks 28 $10,600,000
Sterling Shepard Giants 26 $10,250,000
DeVante Parker Dolphins 27 $10,166,667
Devin Funchess Colts 26 $10,000,000

 

Robby Anderson will be 27 in May.  So age wise he would compare to Davante Adams, Stefon Diggs and Allen Robinson on the high side of the $13-$15M range.  Paid better than Keenan Allen, Tyrell Williams and Tyler Boyd.  Statistically he compares closer to the bottom of that list.  A base salary in the $9M-$11M range is more appropriate than $13M+, with escalators and incentives for 1000+ yards receiving, double digit TDs, pro bowl selection, 70+ catches etc, that could take him into the $12M-$13M range.

 

Robbie Anderson is not as good as any of those WR's listed not by a long shot. Stats don't tell the tale here not in the least. Robbie is a 7 mil per year guy at best and if he wants more then let him walk.

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There are better options than both out there.  Say goodbye to them both.

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10 hours ago, Dunnie said:

So do Funchess, Parker and Cooper ... 10 mill is 2 mill.too much

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

Lol no way Parker goes back to Gase

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On 1/19/2020 at 1:59 PM, varjet said:

We actively debate as to whether Robby Anderson would be worth a large multi-year contract with the Jets.

Without Anderson, the Jets’ WRs would be Crowder and V. Smith.   The Jets obviously need a WR, even if they draft one or two.

It would make me a little jittery to pay Anderson a large contract.

So this is where I get lost-if the Jets have one of the worst, if not the worst, WR corps without Anderson, and they have not renewed him yet and many in the know don’t think he is worth the risk of a large contract, why would another team pay him a large contract?  Do they take greater risks?  Are their WRs even worse?   Maybe Anderson is not worth as much money as people think, and the Jets could sign him for a more fair/lesser amount of money.

I think the same thing could be said about Shell, even as a backup.  If a team with an OL as bad as the Jets don’t think that Shell is worth a lot of money, why would another team?

And the Jets have been watching Robby and Shell for four years.  I just don’t understand.  

I think many believe Robbys talents have been rotting on the Jets in that most of his career here he has either had atrocious QB play or (with Sam) terrible O-line play. He's clearly talented so the thinking is, if a team with a good QB and solid O-line signs him, he can put up much better #'s (whether he's a "#1" WR or not). Furthermore, in today's NFL FA market 12-14 mil is probably a pretty accurate ask for a WR like Robby who put up close to 1,000 yrds each season in his career. Yes, a bit overinflated, but a realistic ask. 

Shell is a very different scenario. In the grand scheme of things he will not cost very much to bring back. The question is, do you want to bring him back considering how poorly he has played. He is, essentially, a bust. IMO, Shell has not proven he can be a starter anywhere on the Jets O-line. And yet, he was the designated starter for a lot of the games simply b/c the Jets lacked a legitimate staring OT. If he asks for anything close to starter money, the Jets have to let him walk. OTs are a premium position in the NFL and even sub-par ones will get a look in the FA market. Shell is still only 27 and has some time to develop. There will probably be a team out there that believes they can work with him to make him a better player. He's not awful, he'll get an NFL job as a backup at least. If he is okay with signing a backup type contract I think the Jets could very well re-sign him. But I doubt it. I think he will try to get a fresh start elsewhere, for a chance at more money.     

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Shell is one of only two starters on the OL I would be comfortable ever starting again in an NFL game. 

He's not great but he's solid, still relatively young, and a homegrown guy. 

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15 hours ago, nyjbuddy said:

Top 25 WRs by average $ per year:

Player Team Age Avg $ / year
Julio Jones Falcons 31 $22,000,000
Michael Thomas Saints 27 $19,250,000
Tyreek Hill Chiefs 26 $18,000,000
Odell Beckham Jr. Browns 28 $18,000,000
Mike Evans Buccaneers 27 $16,500,000
DeAndre Hopkins Texans 28 $16,200,000
Brandin Cooks Rams 27 $16,200,000
Adam Thielen Vikings 30 $16,200,000
Sammy Watkins Chiefs 27 $16,000,000
Jarvis Landry Browns 28 $15,100,000
A.J. Green Bengals 32 $15,000,000
Davante Adams Packers 28 $14,500,000
Stefon Diggs Vikings 27 $14,400,000
Allen Robinson Bears 27 $14,000,000
T.Y. Hilton Colts 31 $13,000,000
Alshon Jeffery Eagles 30 $13,000,000
Larry Fitzgerald Cardinals 37 $11,500,000
Keenan Allen Chargers 28 $11,250,000
Tyrell Williams Raiders 28 $11,100,000
Emmanuel Sanders 49ers 33 $11,000,000
Tyler Boyd Bengals 26 $10,750,000
Tyler Lockett Seahawks 28 $10,600,000
Sterling Shepard Giants 26 $10,250,000
DeVante Parker Dolphins 27 $10,166,667
Devin Funchess Colts 26 $10,000,000

 

Robby Anderson will be 27 in May.  So age wise he would compare to Davante Adams, Stefon Diggs and Allen Robinson on the high side of the $13-$15M range.  Paid better than Keenan Allen, Tyrell Williams and Tyler Boyd.  Statistically he compares closer to the bottom of that list.  A base salary in the $9M-$11M range is more appropriate than $13M+, with escalators and incentives for 1000+ yards receiving, double digit TDs, pro bowl selection, 70+ catches etc, that could take him into the $12M-$13M range.

 

The other thing to consider is when these guys signed their contracts. As the cap goes up, so do contracts. Robby will probably be the 2nd best WR on the market behind Cooper. He may not end up with 12-14 mil but it will be close. 

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On 1/20/2020 at 8:23 AM, Maxman said:

Sammy Watkins is actually younger than Robby Anderson. Sammy Watkins is also getting only 600 yards per year in an amazing offense.

And he’s playing second fiddle to Hill and Kelce, who demand so much attention on every single play. 

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32 minutes ago, PepPep said:

The other thing to consider is when these guys signed their contracts. As the cap goes up, so do contracts. Robby will probably be the 2nd best WR on the market behind Cooper. He may not end up with 12-14 mil but it will be close. 

Also, what their status was when they signed.  The majority of the guys on that list never actually hit the open market. 

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23 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

And he’s playing second fiddle to Hill and Kelce, who demand so much attention on every single play. 

He still WAYYY underperforming that contract.,,..

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On 1/19/2020 at 7:21 PM, joewilly12 said:

Daily-News i didn't add anything. 

agree.

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