Eli Manning to Retire on Friday

[nyjunc]

On 1/23/2020 at 9:08 PM, Beerfish said:

He has a good case to go in even without the superbowls, the two superbowls and all those playoff wins clinch it.

He has absolutely no case without both SBs, if he just had one this wouldn't be a discussion.

On 1/24/2020 at 7:50 AM, jgb said:

The Slayer of the Evil Empire is in my personal HOF. I think he will get into the actual HOF but if he does not, it will do nothing to diminish the admiration I have for Eli.

As stated several times in this thread, he saved us all from having to endure the annual media tour of aging Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Tom Brady, Teddy Bruschi, and Belly after the last undefeated team falls each season. You cannot put a value on that.

The D slayed NE.  That held NE to 14 and 17 points allowing Eli to lead his Os to 17 and 19 to win 2 SBs- the only multiple SB winner that never led his O to 20 pts.

On 1/24/2020 at 8:52 AM, Biggs said:

In two 4 game playoff runs he had 15 Td's and 2 Int's.  He was great. 

Awesome, now do points scored.(in regulation)

24,21, 20, 17

24, 37, 17, 19

This is impressive?

For comparison, in 2 SBs he threw 3 total TDs and led O to 36 pts while his D allowed 31.  Nick Foles threw 3 in one SB, caught a TD and his D allowed 33.

On 1/24/2020 at 9:31 AM, joewilly12 said:

So no NY Jets fan would take a QB like Eli Maning or what he did for the NY Giants the past 15 years. 

Did you know Eli only has 3 more playoff wins than our QBs since 2004?  Did you know we have playoff wins in more postseasons?  Did you know we scored 17 in our conf championship losses while Eli led his Os to 20 & 17 in regulation in his conf championship wins?

On 1/24/2020 at 9:44 AM, Biggs said:

Joe Namath's record as a starting QB.  62-63-4 

Warren Moon 102-101

Dan Fouts 86-84-1

Sonny Jurgensen 69-73-7

Ken Stabler is in the HOF and deserves to be.  96-49-1

Namath made all pro teams in 5 seasons, was on all decade team, 2x AFL player of the year

Moon was an Offensive player of the year, made all pro teams in 3 seasons

Fouts league MVP, offensive player of the year, all decade 2nd team, all pro teams in 6 seasons

Jurgensen all decade team, all pro teams in 4 seasons

Stabler league MVP, Offensive player of the year, all decade 2nd team, all pro teams in 3 different seasons.

 

Eli never even received a league MVP vote, never won any major season award, never made any all pro team.

[Lizard King]

On 1/22/2020 at 5:09 PM, Drums said:

Not a bad legacy to leave behind while making tons of money and living in one of the best cities in the world in the process. 

Hoboken is really moving up in the world eh?

[Lizard King]

On 1/22/2020 at 7:35 PM, Matt39 said:

I don't think that's going to matter. 

It doesn’t. Joe Willy is in there. 

[nyjunc]

On 1/24/2020 at 8:04 AM, southparkcpa said:

Here in NC at the gym I asked this question aty random to several people. None of whom are NYers...  they all quickly said YES, he is a HOFer.  Absent the bias we see in Jets fans, I think the average fan of the game puts him in. 

Those people obviously didn't watch him play, they see the compiled numbers because he stayed healthy in this era where numbers exploded.

On 1/24/2020 at 10:55 AM, jgb said:

Stopping one of (the?) greatest offenses ever to prevent the dirtiest franchise in sport from becoming the second (and only since 1972) undefeated team wasn’t historical??

He led his offense to 17 points, the D held that O to 14.  What the D did was historical.

On 1/24/2020 at 11:06 AM, shawn306 said:

And 7 of those 8 games were on the road

5 games were on the road, 1 home and 2 neutral sites. Still impressive but let's not forget he's 1-2 in his playoff career at home leading his Os to a total of 9 points in the 2 losses.

On 1/24/2020 at 7:53 PM, BallinPB said:

Eli Manning was never an All-Pro player.  4 pro bowls in 16 years.  He never led the league in passing yards or touchdowns but led in interceptions 3 times.  Never has he been considered a top 3 or even 5 QB in all the years he’s played.

His career is being defined by a couple of clutch throws in the biggest games of the year and his career.  
 

While I will sign up for a Jet QB to have that career, I don’t think that it should be a hall of fame career.  Just my opinion.  

 

 

 

He did lead in interceptions 3 times!

And while he made 4 pro bowls, 2 of them were as an injury replacement so he really only made 2.

Another crazy unimpressive fact is he only won player of the week 4 times in his 234 starts.  For comparison the great Ryan Fitzpatrick has been an 8 time player of the week in just 139 starts

[nyjunc]

20 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

If CuMar is in, Eli will 100% be in. Compilers or not, they both finished in the top 10 in important stats for their position.

Start with that. Then add the playoff games in which he put up extraordinary efficiency numbers, including two runs against the greatest dynasty the sport has ever seen. He’s the only QB to ever beat an 18 win team. 

Then add his last name.

Then remember that this is the hall of fame, not the hall of excellence. 

Then add that he retired in a year where there are no other-sure fire HoFers retiring except Luke Keuchly. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers would all hurt his candidacy, but none of them will be eligible when Eli will be.

Add in some more of “he prevented two more pats SBs” for taste.

Add that no one’s going to care or remember who dropped ints against him or that he struggled for the first 40 mins of his playoff games (which isn’t even true). They’ll remember that when the chips were down, he got it done in the playoffs against inner-circle HoFers like Favre, Rodgers, and Brady twice.

There’s your recipe for why he will definitely be inducted. 

Curtis led the NFL in rushing, Eli only led in Ints 3 times.  Curtis made all pro teams in 5 seasons, Eli never made any.  Chris was considered one of the best RBs of his generation, Eli was never considered a top QB.

He led his offense to 17 points to beat that 18-0 team.  In both runs he had one game over 30 points (one over 24 actually), he never won a playoff game when his defense allowed more than 20 points in his postseason career.

He went 10-6 and 9-7 with SB talent around him, he only made the playoffs 6 times and was one and done 4 of the 6. In 16 years he won playoff games in just 2 postseasons. He's a career .500 QB in a weak division.

The Hall of Fame is supposed to be for the greatest players of all time.

The D prevented 2 more pats SBs.  Eli helped but the job is much easier when you can lead your offense to 17 & 19 points and win 2 SBs.

We'll see, I don't think he even belongs in the discussion but I understand those SBs and his last name carry a lot of weight.  Even with that I think if he makes it that it will take a while.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

He led his offense to 17 points, the D held that O to 14.  What the D did was historical.

How many points did Joe Namath lead the Jets to in SB3? Look, I agree with you that without the SBs, Eli doesn't get in. But without SB3, Joe doesn't get in either IMHO. His win in SB3 basically removed the anti-AFL argument against him that plagued a lot of players who put up big stats in the old AFL. Just one of many examples, Don Maynard was elected to the HOF after Namath despite retiring 4 years earlier and his stats were unassailable. He remains the league leader in YPC for receivers with over 600 catches to this very day--and as we have been told many times by knowledgeable fans this was back when CBs could "mug" receivers and it was a "running league." It is truly incredible that he set a mark that has yet to be broken, 45 years after he retired. Amazing. If Maynard wasn't hurt in the AFL championship game and forced to play decoy in SB3? He, not George Sauer, probably would've gone over 100 yards and likely into the Hall much sooner as he would've become part of the lore surrounding the most important football game ever played. Instead he was an annual snub for many years, Google has articles from the 80s bemoaning the anti-AFL bias that was perceived to keep him out.

Big games define careers, fair or not. And Eli won maybe the most dramatic SB of my lifetime.  Not to mention the Giants were 12 point dogs, one of the biggest point spreads in SB history (top 8). And he got MVP of both, not the defense, not a receiver, him.  Popularity contest or not, guess what else is in large extent a popularity contest? HOF voting. The cherry on top is he prevented the dirtiest franchise in sport from reaching Mount Olympus with the '72 dolphins. It would be the NFL version of Barry Bonds being the home run king.

I'm less interested in a debate about whether he deserves to get in. Reasonable people can disagree there--even the voters themselves only reach near-consensus on slam-dunk no-brainer candidates--for me the debate is whether he does get in. It's a flawed, subjective, biased process that puts way too much emphasis on big games and moments, no argument there. But I think under that process he gets in quite easily. 

If only he had guaranteed a win we wouldn't be having this debate!

[prime21]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Those people obviously didn't watch him play, they see the compiled numbers because he stayed healthy in this era where numbers exploded.

He led his offense to 17 points, the D held that O to 14.  What the D did was historical.

5 games were on the road, 1 home and 2 neutral sites. Still impressive but let's not forget he's 1-2 in his playoff career at home leading his Os to a total of 9 points in the 2 losses.

He did lead in interceptions 3 times!

And while he made 4 pro bowls, 2 of them were as an injury replacement so he really only made 2.

Another crazy unimpressive fact is he only won player of the week 4 times in his 234 starts.  For comparison the great Ryan Fitzpatrick has been an 8 time player of the week in just 139 starts

He led his team to 17 points which is more than the other team scored.  Isn't that the name of the game? Score more than the opponent?

Eli was a better than average QB that has two SB MVP's and in the top 10 statistically for many categories.  Most of the stats are based off his longevity and not missing games but never the less he is on those lists.   You can say he wasn't the MVP but the history books say he was. 

There are many valid points you bring up to say why he is not a HOF caliber QB but the accolades will override that.   And although its not a criteria for voting, in the voters mind he will get credit for a being a good guy and able to handle the NY media.  

 

[Drums]

2 hours ago, Lizard King said:

Hoboken is really moving up in the world eh?

Hoboken? I was talking about East Rutherford!

[Jetsfan80]

Haven't read this thread, but lemme guess, nyjunc is going hard on his campaign to discredit Eli's HOF credentials?

Guess he has a lot of time on his hands, what with UNC currently sitting in 12th place in the ACC.

[jetstream23]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Haven't read this thread, but lemme guess, nyjunc is going hard on his campaign to discredit Eli's HOF credentials?

Guess he has a lot of time on his hands, what with UNC having an awful season.

So you're here to say that you haven't read anything in this 6-page thread, you're calling out another poster, you're assuming what he's said and then criticizing another team that poster likes?

That's what this is about?

Edited January 29, 2020 by jetstream23

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

So you're here to say that you haven't read anything in this 6-page thread, you're calling out another poster, you're assuming what he's said and then criticizing another team that poster likes?

That's what this is about?

 

Yes.  How far off am I?

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yes.  How far off am I?

Spot on although I resent the UNC dig!

[jetstream23]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yes.  How far off am I?

Pretty close. lol

 

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Spot on although I resent the UNC dig!

I get that.  But you clearly haven't spent any time in the College Basketball thread.  He makes UNC fans look terrible.  

[greenwichjetfan]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Curtis led the NFL in rushing, Eli only led in Ints 3 times.  Curtis made all pro teams in 5 seasons, Eli never made any.  Chris was considered one of the best RBs of his generation, Eli was never considered a top QB.

He led his offense to 17 points to beat that 18-0 team.  In both runs he had one game over 30 points (one over 24 actually), he never won a playoff game when his defense allowed more than 20 points in his postseason career.

He went 10-6 and 9-7 with SB talent around him, he only made the playoffs 6 times and was one and done 4 of the 6. In 16 years he won playoff games in just 2 postseasons. He's a career .500 QB in a weak division.

The Hall of Fame is supposed to be for the greatest players of all time.

The D prevented 2 more pats SBs.  Eli helped but the job is much easier when you can lead your offense to 17 & 19 points and win 2 SBs.

We'll see, I don't think he even belongs in the discussion but I understand those SBs and his last name carry a lot of weight.  Even with that I think if he makes it that it will take a while.

The bolded simply won’t matter to the voters. The SB MVPs will overshadow all of it. 

The underlined is not true. It hasn’t been the hall of excellence for a very long time. It might have been when it first started, but now it’s a business mascarading as a museum of football. It’s the hall of fame.

The story of the NFL and its greatest dynasty can’t be told without Eli and his two SB MVPs. Therefore, he’s a lock to get in, and because of lack of competition in 2025, will probably be first-ballot.

[Apache 51]

5 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I don't believe he's going to make it, I'm encouraged by what I have been reading since he retired.  He was 10-21 vs Philly (0-2 in playoffs).

 

I dgaf  if he makes it or not, however, he will go into the HOF.

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

How many points did Joe Namath lead the Jets to in SB3? Look, I agree with you that without the SBs, Eli doesn't get in. But without SB3, Joe doesn't get in either IMHO. His win in SB3 basically removed the anti-AFL argument against him that plagued a lot of players who put up big stats in the old AFL. Just one of many examples, Don Maynard was elected to the HOF after Namath despite retiring 4 years earlier and his stats were unassailable. He remains the league leader in YPC for receivers with over 600 catches to this very day--and as we have been told many times by knowledgeable fans this was back when CBs could "mug" receivers and it was a "running league." It is truly incredible that he set a mark that has yet to be broken, 45 years after he retired. Amazing. If Maynard wasn't hurt in the AFL championship game and forced to play decoy in SB3? He, not George Sauer, probably would've gone over 100 yards and likely into the Hall much sooner as he would've become part of the lore surrounding the most important football game ever played. Instead he was an annual snub for many years, Google has articles from the 80s bemoaning the anti-AFL bias that was perceived to keep him out.

Big games define careers, fair or not. And Eli won maybe the most dramatic SB of my lifetime.  Not to mention the Giants were 12 point dogs, one of the biggest point spreads in SB history (top 8). And he got MVP of both, not the defense, not a receiver, him.  Popularity contest or not, guess what else is in large extent a popularity contest? HOF voting. The cherry on top is he prevented the dirtiest franchise in sport from reaching Mount Olympus with the '72 dolphins. It would be the NFL version of Barry Bonds being the home run king.

I'm less interested in a debate about whether he deserves to get in. Reasonable people can disagree there--even the voters themselves only reach near-consensus on slam-dunk no-brainer candidates--for me the debate is whether he does get in. It's a flawed, subjective, biased process that puts way too much emphasis on big games and moments, no argument there. But I think under that process he gets in quite easily. 

If only he had guaranteed a win we wouldn't be having this debate!

The defense led the SB III win too but in the AFL championship game they won 27-23, Eli never won a playoff game when his defense allowed more than 20.

Plus we must remember the Jets had a big lead, they scored a couple of plays into the 4th qtr to go up 16-0(they didn't have 2 pt conversions so that's a 3 score lead) and Joe didn't attempt a pass in the 4th qtr, he was milking the clock.  Jim Turner also missed 2 FGs.

 

Without SB III I don't think Joe gets in either but Joe was the first real crossover superstar in pro football, he meant so much to the growth of the game.  How many HOFers that came after him said Joe was their idol.  Do you think future QBs are going to feel that way about Eli?  Did Eli have that impact on the game? So that put Joe over the top, Eli doesn't have that to help him.

 

The winning QB generally wins SB MVP, Eli didn't deserve either.  How D held down the greatest offense of all time to 14 points in the first and a great offense to 17 in the second plus they scored.  Eli won 2 super bowls without leading his offense to 20 points.

I'm hopeful the voters look at his entire career not just 2 good playoff runs led by great defense.  

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, prime21 said:

He led his team to 17 points which is more than the other team scored.  Isn't that the name of the game? Score more than the opponent?

Eli was a better than average QB that has two SB MVP's and in the top 10 statistically for many categories.  Most of the stats are based off his longevity and not missing games but never the less he is on those lists.   You can say he wasn't the MVP but the history books say he was. 

There are many valid points you bring up to say why he is not a HOF caliber QB but the accolades will override that.   And although its not a criteria for voting, in the voters mind he will get credit for a being a good guy and able to handle the NY media.  

 

Sure but life sure is easier when you can lead your offense to less than 20 and win.  Of you look at the NFC championship games he never led his offense to more than 20 points in regulation in 2 championship games and 2 SBs yet won all 4. 

Eli was a mostly average QB reflected in his career .500 record playing in a weak division.  He would be the only QB in the HOF who never made any all pro team.  He was just never a great QB consistently.

 

[nyjunc]

3 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

The bolded simply won’t matter to the voters. The SB MVPs will overshadow all of it. 

The underlined is not true. It hasn’t been the hall of excellence for a very long time. It might have been when it first started, but now it’s a business mascarading as a museum of football. It’s the hall of fame.

The story of the NFL and its greatest dynasty can’t be told without Eli and his two SB MVPs. Therefore, he’s a lock to get in, and because of lack of competition in 2025, will probably be first-ballot.

I think we'll get a heated debate in the HOF voting room.  I would hope 2 good months of football wouldn't override 16 years of slightly above average QB play but we'll see.

Who cares about the story of the NFL?  That's not what gets people enshrined.  They have exhibits to tell the story of the game, being enshrined means you were one of the all time greats.  Eli is obviously not an all time great.

There are better QBs and better players not in, I don't think it matters who retires with him but it sounds like Brees is retiring.  How unfair would it be to have those two side by side?  

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I get that.  But you clearly haven't spent any time in the College Basketball thread.  He makes UNC fans look terrible.  

It's cool to have fans that follow me on here. Thanks for always thinking of me but you have us confused.  You guys run and hide when your teams struggle (well, your program always struggles), I'm always there to back my teams win or lose.

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

So you're here to say that you haven't read anything in this 6-page thread, you're calling out another poster, you're assuming what he's said and then criticizing another team that poster likes?

That's what this is about?

That's what he does, he attacks me rather than debating me because he can't keep up.  It's easier to hurl an insult and deflect rather than engage in discussion.

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

The defense led the SB III win too but in the AFL championship game they won 27-23, Eli never won a playoff game when his defense allowed more than 20.

Plus we must remember the Jets had a big lead, they scored a couple of plays into the 4th qtr to go up 16-0(they didn't have 2 pt conversions so that's a 3 score lead) and Joe didn't attempt a pass in the 4th qtr, he was milking the clock.  Jim Turner also missed 2 FGs.

 

Without SB III I don't think Joe gets in either but Joe was the first real crossover superstar in pro football, he meant so much to the growth of the game.  How many HOFers that came after him said Joe was their idol.  Do you think future QBs are going to feel that way about Eli?  Did Eli have that impact on the game? So that put Joe over the top, Eli doesn't have that to help him.

 

The winning QB generally wins SB MVP, Eli didn't deserve either.  How D held down the greatest offense of all time to 14 points in the first and a great offense to 17 in the second plus they scored.  Eli won 2 super bowls without leading his offense to 20 points.

I'm hopeful the voters look at his entire career not just 2 good playoff runs led by great defense.  

I'd love to see a poll what the average NFL fan thinks about Eli versus what Jets fans think about him.

[greenwichjetfan]

10 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I think we'll get a heated debate in the HOF voting room.  I would hope 2 good months of football wouldn't override 16 years of slightly above average QB play but we'll see.

Who cares about the story of the NFL?  That's not what gets people enshrined.  They have exhibits to tell the story of the game, being enshrined means you were one of the all time greats.  Eli is obviously not an all time great.

There are better QBs and better players not in, I don't think it matters who retires with him but it sounds like Brees is retiring.  How unfair would it be to have those two side by side?  

I’m not arguing with your feelings, nor am I arguing that they’re wrong. I’m simply telling you that they’re your feelings and they won’t matter to the voters. What will matter is that Eli is a HoFer, and will be introduced as one possibly as early as 2025.

[southparkcpa]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

I'd love to see a poll what the average NFL fan thinks about Eli versus what Jets fans think about him.

I have been asking TONS of people down here in NC. Almost all are not Jets fans and are NOT from here. In bars, the gym, my golf club etc.  I can tell you by a large margin, fans say YES.  Pats fans ALL, no exception, have said no and I asked at least 6 of them.  BUT rank and file fans...  80 percent say yes.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

I'd love to see a poll what the average NFL fan thinks about Eli versus what Jets fans think about him.

I've seen many different polls online, it's generally split close to down the middle.  

3 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I’m not arguing with your feelings, nor am I arguing that they’re wrong. I’m simply telling you that they’re your feelings and they won’t matter to the voters. What will matter is that Eli is a HoFer, and will be introduced as one possibly as early as 2025.

Nothing to do with feelings, it has nothing to do with facts. I like Eli personally, I've met him too many times to count.  Personally I'm rooting for him but as a football fan who believes the Hof should have the highest standards I do not believe he belongs.

He's going to have a hard time making it.

[greenwichjetfan]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I've seen many different polls online, it's generally split close to down the middle.  

Nothing to do with feelings, it has nothing to do with facts. I like Eli personally, I've met him too many times to count.  Personally I'm rooting for him but as a football fan who believes the Hof should have the highest standards I do not believe he belongs.

He's going to have a hard time making it.

The NFL, as recently as a few months ago, had Bill Belichick on as a featured presenter for the nfl100. They go out of their way to hashtag brady as the GOAT on everything they put out. NFL network started the whole Edelman for HoF talk after the SB last year.

Highest standards? These are three men who over the course of their careers have been found guilty of and penalized for cheating. The HoF is an extension of the NFL. None of this “excellence” or “highest standards” crap matters. It’s a business. 

You think he’ll have trouble getting in. Cool. I disagree. I think he’s a lock for it. The only question for me is whether he’ll get in on his first try.

[JetsFanShawn]

On 1/24/2020 at 9:44 AM, Biggs said:

Joe Namath's record as a starting QB.  62-63-4 

Warren Moon 102-101

Dan Fouts 86-84-1

Sonny Jurgensen 69-73-7

Ken Stabler is in the HOF and deserves to be.  96-49-1

i thought that the giants handell elis retirement good they new what they had in  former duck QB danil Jones 

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

The NFL, as recently as a few months ago, had Bill Belichick on as a featured presenter for the nfl100. They go out of their way to hashtag brady as the GOAT on everything they put out. NFL network started the whole Edelman for HoF talk after the SB last year.

Highest standards? These are three men who over the course of their careers have been found guilty of and penalized for cheating. The HoF is an extension of the NFL. None of this “excellence” or “highest standards” crap matters. It’s a business. 

You think he’ll have trouble getting in. Cool. I disagree. I think he’s a lock for it. The only question for me is whether he’ll get in on his first try.

Brady is the goat though, there's not much of a debate about that.

Edelman won't be a HOFer.

 

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Brady is the goat though, there's not much of a debate about that.

Wrong again, but I’m not doing this with you tonight. Just know you’re wrong. 

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Brady is the goat though, there's not much of a debate about that.

Edelman won't be a HOFer.

 

Brady can’t be the goat.  He allowed Eli Manning to beat him when he had the greatest team and offense in NFL history.   

[Snell41]

The bottom line is the HoF should be reserved for the greatest of the great, the elite. Eli was never elite in his own generation, and probably isn’t even a top 50 QB overall in history. Literally we could probably name 50 QB’s in history you’d rather over him. Those are both facts. Eli had a wonderful career, he did not have a HoF career.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Biggs]

3 hours ago, Snell41 said:

The bottom line is the HoF should be reserved for the greatest of the great, the elite. Eli was never elite in his own generation, and probably isn’t even a top 50 QB overall in history. Literally we could probably name 50 QB’s in history you’d rather over him. Those are both facts. Eli had a wonderful career, he did not have a HoF career.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

The greatest of the great isn't a HOF.  It's the NFL 100.

[nyjunc]

On 1/29/2020 at 6:05 PM, greenwichjetfan said:

Wrong again, but I’m not doing this with you tonight. Just know you’re wrong. 

I'm right as usual.  It's not even debatable

On 1/29/2020 at 6:32 PM, Biggs said:

Brady can’t be the goat.  He allowed Eli Manning to beat him when he had the greatest team and offense in NFL history.   

He allowed a mediocre QB to lead 2 GW drives to end SBs or the defensive genius and his Ds allowed it?

 

That doesn't mean he didn't deserve blame, they should have scored more but he left the field late both games with leads only to watch another BB D choke job.

[nyjunc]

In the 4th qtr last night mahomes, who really struggled in this game and was not great, led his O to 21 points to win the SB.  In one qtr he led his O to more points than the great Eli Manning did in either of his SBs.

 

By the way, Garropolo led his O to more points last night than Eli did in his 2 SBs.

[southparkcpa]

10 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

In the 4th qtr last night mahomes, who really struggled in this game and was not great, led his O to 21 points to win the SB.  In one qtr he led his O to more points than the great Eli Manning did in either of his SBs.

 

By the way, Garropolo led his O to more points last night than Eli did in his 2 SBs.

I saw a survey on a sports web page.. several thousand fans voted it was overwhelming that 80 percent said yes.  Just saying.. your opinion is not the majority opinion of the country by a large margin.