Darnold..Best in his Class

[Jets723]

2 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

i desperately want him to succeed!

but i see someone who i thinks chances are low based on the body of work.

NO ONE WHO EVALUATES ANYTHING AND WISHES TO BE CONSIDERED CREDIBLE SIMPLY ERASES BAD DATA AND PRESENTS THE REMAINDER OF THE DATA AS "FACT"

Look I have been fair about Sam.  He is far from a finished product and has things to clean up.  But I think he has been better than you think considering the lack of talent around him 

[Creepy Lurker]

50 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Look I have been fair about Sam.  He is far from a finished product and has things to clean up.  But I think he has been better than you think considering the lack of talent around him 

I was deep into thought yesterday. Got stoned for the first time in years. For some reason I thought about the Darnold situation:

The Jets offensive talent has been HORRIBLE since he was drafted. McCown, who looked pretty damn efficient in 2017, looked like complete trash in 2018 when he played for Sam. Trevor Siemian, who is a good backup and knows Gase’s system, looked even worse. I won’t even go into the other horrible performance from our other backup. 

All 3 of these QBs could not function at all and player as poorly as I’ve seen QBs play. Darnold looks head and shoulders better than these guys in the same terrible offensive situation. He had some flat out disgusting moments and games himself but for playing in constantly terrible situations, he did well. Sam may actually be pretty damn great in a half decent situation, which we are NOT....yet. 

I am the farthest thing from a Darnold homer and I’m very critical of him but I understand he situation he is in. It’d be insane to write him off considering how sh*tty of a situation he has been in. I can see the upside very easily. I also see a floor of basic FQB with a middle of the pack offensive line and overall offensive talent. 

Eiher way Darnold is still an unknown and I hate cherry picked stats to make arguments about how good he is. Especially when you consider the easy strength of schedule the second half of the year. I equally hate looking at the overall numbers and saying “that’s who Sam Darnold is” and it’s not good enough, without considering his unbelievably horrible OL and overall offensive situation. 

Next year will be his 3rd year as pro, 2nd year in the new offensive system and with plenty of investment in the offense. Will 1 offseason be enough to fix the disaster that Mac creates? Absolutely not. It SHOULD be more than enough to see what Darnold is at least. He has to perform well in less than ideal situations. This current roster is a joke and I cannot expect anyone to function in that environment. 

I lost my train of thought with all this rambling but I am very optimistic about Sam based on what I’ve seen. If he chokes and doesn’t take the next step next year, plan to strongly consider moving on AFTER we fixed the roster to at least be serviceable. This should be after 2 offseasons and after Sam’s year 4 if Douglas is a “good” GM. 

[Jets723]

1 minute ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I was deep into thought yesterday. Got stoned for the first time in years. For some reason I thought about the Darnold situation:

The Jets offensive talent has been HORRIBLE since he was drafted. McCown, who looked pretty damn efficient in 2017, looked like complete trash in 2018 when he played for Sam. Trevor Siemian, who is a good backup and knows Gase’s system, looked even worse. I won’t even go into the other horrible performance from our other backup. 

All 3 of these QBs could not function at all and player as poorly as I’ve seen QBs play. Darnold looks head and shoulders better than these guys in the same terrible offensive situation. He had some flat out disgusting moments and games himself but for playing in constantly terrible situations, he did well. Sam may actually be pretty damn great in a half decent situation, which we are NOT....yet. 

I am the farthest thing from a Darnold homer and I’m very critical of him but I understand he situation he is in. It’d be insane to write him off considering how sh*tty of a situation he has been in. I can see the upside very easily. I also see a floor of basic FQB with a middle of the pack offensive line and overall offensive talent. 

Eiher way Darnold is still an unknown and I hate cherry picked stats to make arguments about how good he is. Especially when you consider the easy strength of schedule the second half of the year. I equally hate looking at the overall numbers and saying “that’s who Sam Darnold is” and it’s not good enough, without considering his unbelievably horrible OL and overall offensive situation. 

Next year will be his 3rd year as pro, 2nd year in the new offensive system and with plenty of investment in the offense. Will 1 offseason be enough to fix the disaster that Mac creates? Absolutely not. It SHOULD be more than enough to see what Darnold is at least. He has to perform well in less than ideal situations. This current roster is a joke and I cannot expect anyone to function in that environment. 

I lost my train of thought with all this rambling but I am very optimistic about Sam based on what I’ve seen. If he chokes and doesn’t take the next step next year, plan to strongly consider moving on AFTER we fixed the roster to at least be serviceable. This should be after 2 offseasons and after Sam’s year 4 if Douglas is a “good” GM. 

Now that’s a fair post.  Agreed 

[Creepy Lurker]

Just now, Jets723 said:

Now that’s a fair post.  Agreed 

Sorry to quote you and just ramble like a lunatic haha. 

[Jets723]

2 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Sorry to quote you and just ramble like a lunatic haha. 

No problem.  It wasn’t rambling it was a great point.  We don’t know what Dam’s ceiling will ultimately be.  It’s impossible to know.  However like you I’m optimistic.  Now like you said Sam still needs to take a the next step and stop those mistakes like throwing off his back foot and running more for first downs when they are there.  Also despite the fact that I never wanted Gase here I’ve never blamed the coach when Sam struggles.  So even though I’m very optimistic about Him I still have no problem pouring out things he needs to work on.  However I still stand behind the fact that having an awful oline and very few weapons makes him life much harder. That isn’t an excuse it’s a pure fact.  So yes Sam still needs to take a big step on his own BUT Douglas ultimately had to build a team around him like the Chiefs and Ravens did with their young QBs 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

When exactly should we hold Darnold accountable for his poor play on the field? All I hear around here are excuses for him. I saw plenty of times this season where he had ample time in the pocket and just made plain stupid decisions with the football. He's very cavalier with his passing. Was in college, hasn't changed in the pros.

The guys we could have drafted instead of Darnold are: Jackson(2019 MVP), Mahomes(2018 MVP, 2019 AFC champ), Watson(2X Pro Bowler, 24-13 as a NFL starter).

I know everyone here is heavily invested in having Darnold be this great QB... but what if he just isn't? There's a lot of data to suggest he'll never even be as good as Watson, forget about Mahomes or Jackson.

I’d say to hold him accountable this coming season.  He’ll have a 2nd consecutive year in the same system and hopefully upgraded talent around him.

I agree with the points you make, although the one about “ample time” I might dispute.  Those, to me, seemed few and far between.

And although I’d of course rather have Mahomes over Darnold, and who I wanted drafted when Maccagnan passed on him to go with consensus as he always did, I’d really be curious to see how all the rest of the QBs would have performed with NO OL and NO running game, and you can throw in receivers who rarely get any separation.  But of course that’s impossible to know.  Although we do know that Mahomes, Jackson and Watson ALL were put in way better situations than Darnold was since their first day as a pro.

At the very least I feel there is hope and at least a chance for greatness out of Darnold, whereas I knew Sanchez would be bust from his very first game.  Just didn’t look like an NFL QB.  Smallest looking 6 foot 2 listed QB I’ve ever seen.  All those batted balls at the line.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

32 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I was deep into thought yesterday. Got stoned for the first time in years. For some reason I thought about the Darnold situation:

The Jets offensive talent has been HORRIBLE since he was drafted. McCown, who looked pretty damn efficient in 2017, looked like complete trash in 2018 when he played for Sam. Trevor Siemian, who is a good backup and knows Gase’s system, looked even worse. I won’t even go into the other horrible performance from our other backup. 

All 3 of these QBs could not function at all and player as poorly as I’ve seen QBs play. Darnold looks head and shoulders better than these guys in the same terrible offensive situation. He had some flat out disgusting moments and games himself but for playing in constantly terrible situations, he did well. Sam may actually be pretty damn great in a half decent situation, which we are NOT....yet. 

I am the farthest thing from a Darnold homer and I’m very critical of him but I understand he situation he is in. It’d be insane to write him off considering how sh*tty of a situation he has been in. I can see the upside very easily. I also see a floor of basic FQB with a middle of the pack offensive line and overall offensive talent. 

Eiher way Darnold is still an unknown and I hate cherry picked stats to make arguments about how good he is. Especially when you consider the easy strength of schedule the second half of the year. I equally hate looking at the overall numbers and saying “that’s who Sam Darnold is” and it’s not good enough, without considering his unbelievably horrible OL and overall offensive situation. 

Next year will be his 3rd year as pro, 2nd year in the new offensive system and with plenty of investment in the offense. Will 1 offseason be enough to fix the disaster that Mac creates? Absolutely not. It SHOULD be more than enough to see what Darnold is at least. He has to perform well in less than ideal situations. This current roster is a joke and I cannot expect anyone to function in that environment. 

I lost my train of thought with all this rambling but I am very optimistic about Sam based on what I’ve seen. If he chokes and doesn’t take the next step next year, plan to strongly consider moving on AFTER we fixed the roster to at least be serviceable. This should be after 2 offseasons and after Sam’s year 4 if Douglas is a “good” GM. 

Great points.

McCown looked like he wanted to call the cops haha his final season with the Jets when he was forced into those 3 games.

Back ups for Darnold were not only 0-6 combined but you could have made an argument that the Jets should have immediately thrown in a white flag and forfeited.  Not even played those games.  I can’t remember watching such mismatched contests on ANY level....that should not be.  It should never be THAT bad.  Fans like to throw around the term “this guy s*cks” and “that guy s*cks” but most have absolutely no clue how great ALL these guys are who play at the highest level.  If you saw ANY of them in a school yard or a park playing against “mere mortals” they’d understand.  I had a gym teacher as a kid who once played low level minor league ball in the Atlanta Braves system and when I saw him messing around in the school yard and asked to play stickball with us, I never saw anything like it.  Every pitch raked.  Every one.

So even Luke Falk is better than you think. The Jets just shouldn’t have been totally STEAMROLLED in ALL 6 GAMES the back ups were in.

The fact that Darnold could even put up ANY wins, register ANY 30 Point games playing with virtually all pure garbage surrounding him gives hope for the future if the talent is upgraded.

[Villain The Foe]

10 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

No I didn’t say that. It was more of a tongue in cheek statement...meaning see you in the future to discuss it.

True, you didnt say 7 years but Sam has already been in the league 2 years and you said "see us in 5 years". That makes 7 years total. 

That's quite some time to ask for when over the past 3 drafts we got 2 mvps a handful of probowlers and QB's making SB appearances. 

Guys like Sam, Baker and Allen need to take some real steps in the "Im a franchise QB" direction next season. 

 

 

[Losmeister]

10 hours ago, Jets723 said:

Look I have been fair about Sam.  He is far from a finished product and has things to clean up.  But I think he has been better than you think considering the lack of talent around him 

it s HIS TALENT that is lacking TOO

[Jets723]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

it s HIS TALENT that is lacking TOO

Disagree

[Losmeister]

32 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Disagree

sam darnold is actually gulliver held down by nasty lilliputians

 

[Losmeister]

 

[Losmeister]

how i underthrow robby deep titorial

[Jets723]

6 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

sam darnold is actually gulliver held down by nasty lilliputians

 

Whatever you say......

[Philc1]

21 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I could care less what the number say.  One youre comparing a 15 year career as a QB who was more of a passer, on teams never as good or complete as LJs who has played for all of what, a year and a half?

Anyone who watched Vick pass and thinks he didn't throw as well a LJ need to clean those glasses.  Better arm, by far, more accurate and actually threw spirals a majority of the time.

You still think Rex orchaesrated the Tebow trade and not the dumb owner give it a rest Vick never had close to Lamar’s passing numbers

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

it s HIS TALENT that is lacking TOO

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’ll also take Darnold over all of the others. See you in 5 years.

That’s basically what it’s all about 

 

5 years from now Lamar and Josh Allen will both be breaking down from injury and  Baker won’t even be in the NFL

 

And Sam will be throwing for 5,000 yards

 

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

You still think Rex orchaesrated the Tebow trade and not the dumb owner give it a rest Vick never had close to Lamar’s passing numbers

Tanny, with Rexs input.  

I mean why go by what Rex and Tanny have said?

What Westhoff has said?

Nah, lets go with the dream sequence, the one that puts all the blame on someone else for all the "wrong" reasons.  Without a stitch of proof

Even if the "dumb owner" had influenced the signing, what's the F'n point?  Wait, an owner of a team, would somehow be interested in bringing in a player that could make his team more popular?  Its like the stupid argument that all they're interesting is selling merchandise to put money in their pockets.  Think so?  

Who cares.  Other than to just bitch about it