Joe Douglas effect

[UnitedWhofans]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Bullsh*t. 

We can complain about things that we supported at one time.  I am not saying the move was senseless, but it turned out to be a bad move.  Keep making them and you are screwed.  Personally, I supported the move and don't fault the man for making it, but that doesn't put Ws on the board.

I mean you could, but it makes you look like a flip flopper/fraud. Unless you mention along with your criticism that you were wrong too. That's what I believe

[RobR]

1 hour ago, Samtorobby47 said:

How will we know after one off season if he’s the guy if the team isn’t good right away and doesn’t hit on all the picks? What are you looking for?

 

1 hour ago, Samtorobby47 said:

How will we know after one off season if he’s the guy if the team isn’t good right away and doesn’t hit on all the picks? What are you looking for?

Not too answer for Beerfish but I thinks he's 100% right. After free agency and the draft you should be able to see what type of vision JD has going forward with the Jets, not only how it relates to positional value but also our needs. If those two align I'll feel a lot better even with the inevitable misses that will come with it.

I've always been a proponent of drafting to the strength of the draft(probably said it 1000x) and luckily for JD that matches our needs this year. We need Olineman and WR's more than any other position and it's NOT EVEN CLOSE. If JD drafts a DE or a CB in the first and most of his free agents are overpriced and over the hill jags he will have already started writing his obituary for me. 

[The Crusher]

8 hours ago, Warfish said:

Great, then we should be able to expect a quality draft full of players who are around more than a year or two, and who contribute.

That would be a nice change for us.

Damn player worth a second contract would be marvelous. 

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Samtorobby47 said:

How will we know after one off season if he’s the guy if the team isn’t good right away and doesn’t hit on all the picks? What are you looking for?

Is he making rational draft choices in value positions.

Is he actively trying to fill the most important holes.

Is he using FA in a logical fashion?  (It rarely fixes things, if you are using it for a fix the player better be good.)

McCagnan had no logic to his thoughts the 1st pick was always 'safest bpa' then soon after he would totally abandone that though with wild risky picks.

[rangerous]

the best thing about douglas is that he isn't mac.  we still don't know how douglas is going to draft or even enter the free agency market.  one indicator might be the way he handles robbie.  does he give robbie any offer?  is it a good offer or a go away one?  and then we'll see what he does about ridding the team of cancers like trumaine and players who really aren't that good at their positions like winters, or roberts.

[Matt39]

Costello has been overly pro Jets since Gase came aboard so we'll see. These articles come around every time the Jets hire a new guy. Douglas like Maccagnan has been very behind the scenes so far.  We'll see. Remain skeptical. It's the Jets.

[slimjasi]

Sounds good but being positive is easy right now. Let's just hope this all translates into a big draft. 

[Matt39]

16 minutes ago, rangerous said:

the best thing about douglas is that he isn't mac.  we still don't know how douglas is going to draft or even enter the free agency market.  one indicator might be the way he handles robbie.  does he give robbie any offer?  is it a good offer or a go away one?  and then we'll see what he does about ridding the team of cancers like trumaine and players who really aren't that good at their positions like winters, or roberts.

Pretty much. What improvements has Douglas made to the Jets talent approach/process? Wouldn't hurt to share some direct changes/improvements that have been made. Right now he's just not Maccagnan. 

[rangerous]

28 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Pretty much. What improvements has Douglas made to the Jets talent approach/process? Wouldn't hurt to share some direct changes/improvements that have been made. Right now he's just not Maccagnan. 

yeah, i guess we'll just have to wait out the nfl time table.  i believe i read in another thread they can't do much about the free agents until the league year ends in early march.  then we'll start to see what douglas is made of.

[Jetscode1]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's because half of these spoiled brat owners think that if they are one of the 32 people/groups to join the club of owning a multi-billion dollar enterprise, they think that they should be able to meddle in any way that they want.  After all, it's their toy to play with.

They're the kind of people who were born on Third Base and think they hit a Triple.  Thus they have an over-inflated sense of their own business acumen.  

"Tim Tebow is a fantastic player for our Jets"

~Woody Johnson

[HawkeyeJet]

So far the biggest contribution Douglas has made(and Gase for that matter) is he seems to be rinsing away the remains of a rancid culture that hovered over this team for years.  Whether or not he installed the right)winning culture remains to be seen, but I'm big believer in culture matters a lot.  Sounds like people believe in him.  I'll take it for now.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

So far the biggest contribution Douglas has made(and Gase for that matter) is he seems to be rinsing away the remains of a rancid culture that hovered over this team for years. 

Was this before or after he handed the Pats a 5th rounder for free?

[HawkeyeJet]

Just now, RutgersJetFan said:

Was this before or after he handed the Pats a 5th rounder for free?

It was actually after he got a free 6th round pick from the Chiefs and free 3rd round pick from the Giants.

Right after.  

[RutgersJetFan]

6 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

It was actually after he got a free 6th round pick from the Chiefs and free 3rd round pick from the Giants.

Right after.  

Right I forgot we stole a 3rd rounder in exchange for the 6th overall pick. Oh hell yeah.

[HawkeyeJet]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Right I forgot we stole a 3rd rounder in exchange for the 6th overall pick. Oh hell yeah.

Was that before or after?  

[bla bla bla]

10 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

In JD we trust.

WWJDD

[Jetsfan80]

Right I forgot we stole a 3rd rounder in exchange for the 6th overall pick. Oh hell yeah.

Yes, JD is to blame for where Leonard Williams was drafted.

[slats]

19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Coaches should have minimal input other than to tell the gm i need these positions filled with these type of players imo.

Coaches do not scout all year and I hate the old thing where a coach watched 1/2 hour of film or goes to the combine and falls in love with a player (see rex ryan) and then the gm lets him have input.

We have people here who become draft experts between January and May every year, I see no reason why an NFL head coach shouldn't be able to familiarize himself with the upcoming draft and have some valuable input for his GM. 

19 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think the coaches need to have a sh*tload more input than that.  I get that you don't want them naming the players you pick, but they should have input.  More importantly, I think  that they need to tell you the kind of players they want.  Are they looking for a WR to take the top off, or someone to catch underneath routes and slants?  Are they looking for a guy to 2 gap or 1 gap?  Are they looking for scheme versatility or a specific piece to fit what they are trying to do? 

Conversely, this team is much more Joe Douglas' than Adam Gase's, IMHO. I don't know if we ever got Gase's contract details, but I think we can all rest assured that he didn't get six years at big money. This is JD's team to put his stamp on. 

Now, the best way for both men to be successful is to work hand-in-hand here. But if Gase starts talking about niche players he wants, JD probably has to weed some of that out in favor of his own long term vision for the team. This becomes even more true should Douglas start to come to the conclusion that maybe Gase won't be the long term answer at head coach. 

[jeremy2020]

18 hours ago, CSNY said:

So far Everything looks and sounds great but. The only way we will know if we hit paydirt with JD is in the next two to three years. If he can draft like Ron Wolf and Walt Michaels who got us Klecko Gastineau Lyons Walker Dierking Kevin Long Buttle Shuler Lyons et al then we will know for sure the Jets are on the way to sustainable success. Boy I sure hope he works out. Incompetence has reigned for far too long in that front office 

https://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/bob-glauber/jets-hit-paydirt-with-todd-bowles-mike-maccagnan-tandem-1.11274258

[#27TheDominator]

On 1/29/2020 at 8:34 AM, slats said:

Now, the best way for both men to be successful is to work hand-in-hand here. But if Gase starts talking about niche players he wants, JD probably has to weed some of that out in favor of his own long term vision for the team. This becomes even more true should Douglas start to come to the conclusion that maybe Gase won't be the long term answer at head coach. 

I think that one of the big issues between Gase and Maccagnan was Darren Fells.  He is the tight end that played basketball overseas for a few years before becoming a  journeyman TE.  He is 33 years old, but had his best season in 2019.  If the GM doesn't want to burn a multi-year 100 million dollar contract or 1st round pick on some pet idea of the coach that is fine, but I think they should offer pretty much every 1 year/$1.5M contract the coach suggests.  Fells had a solid if unspectacular year.  He earned his $1.5M for the Texans.  overthecap.com's valuation system had him worth over $5M for the season.  Seems like Gase was right on that one.

[slats]

14 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think that one of the big issues between Gase and Maccagnan was Darren Fells.  He is the tight end that played basketball overseas for a few years before becoming a  journeyman TE.  He is 33 years old, but had his best season in 2019.  If the GM doesn't want to burn a multi-year 100 million dollar contract or 1st round pick on some pet idea of the coach that is fine, but I think they should offer pretty much every 1 year/$1.5M contract the coach suggests.  Fells had a solid if unspectacular year.  He earned his $1.5M for the Texans.  overthecap.com's valuation system had him worth over $5M for the season.  Seems like Gase was right on that one.

I don't disagree with any of that. I was thinking more along the lines of major assets, top draft picks, big free agent contracts, that sort of thing. Small, one year deals, sure, help the head coach out. I still say it's more Joe Douglas' team than Gase's, though, and JD should stick to his long term vision for the team and use his 53 man final say when he sees fit. In a perfect world, their visions should intersect. And as I said, they're best chance to succeed individually is if they're working together towards the same goal. Not just, "winning," but agreeing on how the team should be built. 

[Losmeister]

16 minutes ago, slats said:

they're best chance to succeed individually is if they're working together towards the same goal. Not just, "winning," but agreeing on how the team should be built. 

see 49ers

[Jetster]

Gase has already proven to me he's not a stop gap coach. What I mean by that is he's not a save his own azz guy. If he was he would have been thrilled with signing Le'veon Bell, Rex Ryan would have been doing backflips because Rex was a Super Nova, red hot, let's DO IT NOW blowhard. 

At least Gase has shown restraint. Isn't that what the New York Jets really need is restraint? Restraint from wanting headline signings, restraint from resigning AVERAGE players to huge contracts so as to not admit you drafted Jags. I think Joe Douglas & Adam Gase will work well together, put together a plan of action based on needs, and continue bringing in younger free agents that LOVE football, draft BPA for need, and continue to build from there. What I love about Gase was his insistence on NOT babying Sam Darnold. It was tough for Sam playing behind that Oline, but Gase stuck with the pocket plays & some of the repetition young players need to develop continuity of play. Each & every week, fans were here screaming, roll him out more, roll him out more, put Bell out as a WR, Bell needs to go out into patterns more. 

Well, if you wanted Sam Darnold planted into the turf a few more times those ideas are great, but unfortunately our Oline was so bad, Gase needed Bell to stay in & block a bit. We were down to our 4th TE, so yea, we got smoked a few times with our TE trying to block edge rushers. There's a fine line between putting everyone in a pattern & keeping your QB upright. 

Im just very excited to see how JD goes about, first fixing this Oline, and when Gase is comfortable the they can protect Sam start adding plays off of plays. You can't do that when your QB has 2 seconds to perform. I've been watching the Jets since 1968. In the last 20 years, including 2009, 2010, I can say with surety that we didn't have 5 games in a row where we scored on our opening drives like we did in 2019. That's a credit to Adam Gase. Sure, it was a little smoke & mirrors, and when stronger opposing defenses looked at tape, they attacked our weak Oline, doubled RA or Crowder, put 8/9 guys on the LOS and had talented individual players blow up our weak spots but there's only so much you can do when you lack talent.

Same system, better Oline, a couple more weapons, Herndon & Griffin back. Most excited I've been for this team in a long time.