Same Old NFL: League Abuses Trademark to Shut Down New York Jets Parody Store

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Are you saying that the logo is copyrighted by the New York Jets for the private use of their audience and any pictures, descriptions, or accounts without express written consent of the New York Jets are strictly prohibited?

I’m saying so much more. Always, I’m saying so much more. 

[fullblast]

Y'all got any more of them downvotes?

[sameoldjetsstore]

I feel like we've reached a point where it's pretty clear that the majority of folks here either disagree with my legal argument, disagree with my business concept/message, or think I'm just trying to make a quick buck off of Jets fans and am trying to use this forum for free marketing. 

That said... I'm going to say a few things to broadly address the feedback I've received and then I'm going to stop posting in this thread. Although if you'll have me, I'd like to continue posting on this site because, believe it or not, I freaking love the Jets

1. To those who disagree with repurposing a trademarked logo on principle, that's 100% fair and I (to some degree) understand where you're coming from, although the law provides protections for parody/criticism for what I believe is a good reason and is one of the important tenets of our free speech protections.
    
2. To those who feel I have zero legal argument... after a night of sleep, I've recognized that arguing about the merits of my case on a Jets forum is likely not worth my time or yours. That's for the lawyers to figure out and I'll leave that to them. 
    
3. To those who have wished me best of luck on the store... thank you. I know many of you disagree with the message or the designs, but I poured a ton of time and energy into this business on top of a full-time job and freelance work. It crushed me to have the NFL copy and paste an infringement claim with no specifics addressing my store and then see it disappear overnight. 
    
4. I am not trying to prey on Jets fans for financial gain or rip anyone off. I'm one of you. I bleed Jets green. The Jets were my first sports love. I've been going to games for ~20 years since I was 7 years old with my dad who had season tickets and got to the parking lot at 8 a.m. every Sunday for a five-hour tailgate. I can't remember the last game I missed. It's been a lot of years. I wrote my college essay about how some of my biggest passions in life, from cooking to politics, were born from Giants Stadium parking lot tailgates. ("As I write this, it amuses me that so much of who I am today has come from sitting on fold-out chairs in a cement parking lot while eating hot dogs.") The point is... my store was born out of a feeling that I'm sure you have all experienced as Jets fans: utter and complete dejection and disappointment. It was at first a catharsis, a shirt a made for myself. And then for a few friends. And then I decided to turn it into a business when it became clear there was interest. Today, with the offseason looming, Douglas at the helm, another stellar second half from Darnold, and a freaking brilliant year from Gregg Williams... I'm very optimistic for what 2020 (and hopefully early 2021) holds for the New York Jets. If I am able to get my store back up, I intend to take things in a more positive direction aligned with that sentiment, because I think that's where most of our fan base is right now. I'll likely continue selling the "Sell The Team" shirts, because I don't know a Jets fan who likes Woody or Chris, but the focus would be shifted away from "Same Old Jets", though the name would remain the same.

Anyway... I've said my piece. I appreciate all of the discussion and feedback. I love how much passion there seems to be in this community (the Jet Nation community specifically... I already know how passionate the NYJ community at large is). I might have accidentally had myself labeled a leper for all intents and purposes yesterday, and if that's the case, I'll fade into the sunset. If not, I'd love to hang out here some more and talk Jets football with you all (minus that dude who called me a twat and the other one who told me to eat... poop). 

J-E-T-S. JETS. JETS. JETS.

[Warfish]

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

So think back to last summer when I started all the no cursing threads.

There's a no cursing rule for a reason. I don't care what you think of this guy but you're not allowed to break rules.

 

10 hours ago, Maxman said:

So I had my finger on the ban button but what I'm going to do is I'm going to log off for the night instead.

If I wake up to a PM telling me how I suck at my moderating the site I'll revisit the first paragraph.

Either way if you want to stay hereknock it off with the cursing.

I'll remove the words in question.

[Apache 51]

Golden rule. He with the gold rules.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

It's pretty clear that the majority of folks here either disagree with my legal argument, disagree with my business concept/message, or think I'm just trying to make a quick buck off of Jets fans and am trying to use this forum for free marketing. 

 

Observant 
 

My thought exactly

[jgb]

So this is what Macc is up to now

[freestater]

2 hours ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

Anyway... I've said my piece. I appreciate all of the discussion and feedback. I love how much passion there seems to be in this community (the Jet Nation community specifically... I already know how passionate the NYJ community at large is). I might have accidentally had myself labeled a leper for all intents and purposes yesterday, and if that's the case, I'll fade into the sunset. If not, I'd love to hang out here some more and talk Jets football with you all (minus that dude who called me a twat and the other one who told me to eat... poop). 

J-E-T-S. JETS. JETS. JETS.

Hope you do stick around. Great place for jets talk. Check out the draft forum for the hardcore. 

[Apache 51]

2 hours ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

J-E-T-S. JETS. JETS. JETS.

Rock on.

[sameoldjetsstore]

42 minutes ago, freestater said:

Check out the draft forum for the hardcore. 

I watch a lot of college football but I never have the slightest idea what's going on during draft season beyond the second round. Perhaps that will be a good place to cut my teeth... 

[Jet Nut]

17 hours ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

I watch a lot of college football but I never have the slightest idea what's going on during draft season beyond the second round. Perhaps that will be a good place to cut my teeth... 

Or just to continue to neg rep anyone who doesn’t agree with you 

Thanks for the bs about wanting to know what people think. 
Or that you would stop tossing the downvotes around to those who don’t agree with you

And of course the post claiming you were done.

Consistent 

[Bugg]

3 hours ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

I feel like we've reached a point where it's pretty clear that the majority of folks here either disagree with my legal argument, disagree with my business concept/message, or think I'm just trying to make a quick buck off of Jets fans and am trying to use this forum for free marketing. 

That said... I'm going to say a few things to broadly address the feedback I've received and then I'm going to stop posting in this thread. Although if you'll have me, I'd like to continue posting on this site because, believe it or not, I freaking love the Jets

1. To those who disagree with repurposing a trademarked logo on principle, that's 100% fair and I (to some degree) understand where you're coming from, although the law provides protections for parody/criticism for what I believe is a good reason and is one of the important tenets of our free speech protections.
    
2. To those who feel I have zero legal argument... after a night of sleep, I've recognized that arguing about the merits of my case on a Jets forum is likely not worth my time or yours. That's for the lawyers to figure out and I'll leave that to them. 
    
3. To those who have wished me best of luck on the store... thank you. I know many of you disagree with the message or the designs, but I poured a ton of time and energy into this business on top of a full-time job and freelance work. It crushed me to have the NFL copy and paste an infringement claim with no specifics addressing my store and then see it disappear overnight. 
    
4. I am not trying to prey on Jets fans for financial gain or rip anyone off. I'm one of you. I bleed Jets green. The Jets were my first sports love. I've been going to games for ~20 years since I was 7 years old with my dad who had season tickets and got to the parking lot at 8 a.m. every Sunday for a five-hour tailgate. I can't remember the last game I missed. It's been a lot of years. I wrote my college essay about how some of my biggest passions in life, from cooking to politics, were born from Giants Stadium parking lot tailgates. ("As I write this, it amuses me that so much of who I am today has come from sitting on fold-out chairs in a cement parking lot while eating hot dogs.") The point is... my store was born out of a feeling that I'm sure you have all experienced as Jets fans: utter and complete dejection and disappointment. It was at first a catharsis, a shirt a made for myself. And then for a few friends. And then I decided to turn it into a business when it became clear there was interest. Today, with the offseason looming, Douglas at the helm, another stellar second half from Darnold, and a freaking brilliant year from Gregg Williams... I'm very optimistic for what 2020 (and hopefully early 2021) holds for the New York Jets. If I am able to get my store back up, I intend to take things in a more positive direction aligned with that sentiment, because I think that's where most of our fan base is right now. I'll likely continue selling the "Sell The Team" shirts, because I don't know a Jets fan who likes Woody or Chris, but the focus would be shifted away from "Same Old Jets", though the name would remain the same.

Anyway... I've said my piece. I appreciate all of the discussion and feedback. I love how much passion there seems to be in this community (the Jet Nation community specifically... I already know how passionate the NYJ community at large is). I might have accidentally had myself labeled a leper for all intents and purposes yesterday, and if that's the case, I'll fade into the sunset. If not, I'd love to hang out here some more and talk Jets football with you all (minus that dude who called me a twat and the other one who told me to eat... poop). 

J-E-T-S. JETS. JETS. JETS.

That could be because it's WRONG. 

[Bruce Harper]

There is an exception for parody but it is not unlimited.  If the mark is too confusingly similar or would tend to dilute the mark, the exception may not apply.  Certainly not a slam dunk.

[sameoldjetsstore]

19 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Or just to continue to neg rep anyone who doesn’t agree with you 

Only did so because of the obnoxious sarcasm, not because you didn't agree with me. The snide retort wasn't warranted IMO. Regardless, I am here to talk Jets and have already begun posting elsewhere. I'm no longer discussing my store or the legal matter. 

[Dcat]

23 hours ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

I run a store selling merch for frustrated Jets fans (read: all Jets fans) that the NFL got taken down through a baseless trademark infringement claim. Thankfully, I have the support of the amazing Electronic Frontier Foundation behind me, who are representing me as pro bono legal counsel to fight the league. Here's a blog post they put up today explaining why the NFL's claims are nonsense.

Would appreciate any support from fellow Jets fans in spreading the word and sharing the blog post!

You invested your time and money creating a store for disgruntled Jets fans?   You do know that Jets fans are the cheapest fans on the planet, right?  Holy sh!t!!!  You are far worse than anyone here.  And that is saying a lot.  

[Dcat]

23 hours ago, JTJet said:

Honestly man, I dont want to burst your bubble but I dont think you have a leg to stand on in this case... like at all. 

I read the blog post and know my share of trademark law, not saying I'm an unequaled master of it, but I can at least intelligently talk about it. 

"Trademark infringement is the unauthorized use of a trademark or service mark (or a substantially similar mark) on competing or related goods and services. The success of a lawsuit to stop the infringement turns on whether the defendant's use causes a likelihood of confusion in the average consumer."

"Whether the defendant’s use causes a likelihood of confusion and so weakens the value of the plaintiff’s mark. A mark need not be identical to one already in use to infringe upon the owner’s rights. If the proposed mark is similar enough to the earlier mark to risk confusing the average consumer, its use may constitute infringement if the services or goods on which the two marks are used are related to each other—that is"

 

Any lawyer worth his salt is going to shred you based off of the stuff I underlined. I truly hope you have a successful buisness but I would focus more on adjusting your buisness strategy as opposed to digging into your trenches to make a stand. 

Reality is you're going to lose this fight. 

reminds me of Coming to America: McDowells!  "Home of the Big Mick!"

[Dcat]

23 hours ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

Fair enough. I suppose we'll see how it turns out. I consulted with a number of trademark attorneys at non-profit organizations before choosing to retain the EFF to represent me pro bono and they all felt this was a clear non-infringement. 

"parody" exception?

weak.

[JTJet]

11 minutes ago, Dcat said:

reminds me of Coming to America: McDowells!  "Home of the Big Mick!"

Hell yes lol "See were the home of the Big MICK, McDonalds has the Big Mac...totally different" 

?

Cannot WAIT for the sequel this year!!

[slimjasi]

19 minutes ago, Dcat said:

reminds me of Coming to America: McDowells!  "Home of the Big Mick!"

But but but it’s a PaRoDy!!!!!!!

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

Only did so because of the obnoxious sarcasm, not because you didn't agree with me. The snide retort wasn't warranted IMO. Regardless, I am here to talk Jets and have already begun posting elsewhere. I'm no longer discussing my store or the legal matter. 

So the person who thinks his obnoxious sarcasm aimed at my team, using the teams logo and trademark to be obnoxious while stealing money is pissy about "snide remarks"?  

Youre in no way here to promote the Jets.  Youre here to make the case for stealing from "my team" to put money in you pocket.  

Don't be a baby while you talk out of both sides of your mouth.

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

Only did so because of the obnoxious sarcasm, not because you didn't agree with me. The snide retort wasn't warranted IMO. Regardless, I am here to talk Jets and have already begun posting elsewhere. I'm no longer discussing my store or the legal matter. 

Get.  Out.

Now.

SAR I

[PCP63]

Jesus, you guys are brutal. Talking about him stealing money from the team? I, for one, don't give a damn about Woody losing money. 

 

Go easy on him. 

[Bruce Harper]

I have done some trademark litigation.  You may win your case but it certainly is not the slam dunk that you seem to think it is.

But I will be honest:  I really hate the negative energy of this whole project.  Jets fans can be so negative.  And I don't like the idea of encouraging or exploiting that negative vibe.  

[Smashmouth]

4 hours ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

Only did so because of the obnoxious sarcasm, not because you didn't agree with me. The snide retort wasn't warranted IMO. Regardless, I am here to talk Jets and have already begun posting elsewhere. I'm no longer discussing my store or the legal matter. 

Welcome to the forums

 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, PCP63 said:

Jesus, you guys are brutal. Talking about him stealing money from the team? I, for one, don't give a damn about Woody losing money. 

 

Go easy on him. 

Sorry, I cannot stand nor abide pirates. 

Thieves who believe the work of others is theirs to exploit.  I don't have any love for Woody or his wallet, but I cannot tolerate IP pirates.

So TLDR:  Nope.

[jmat321]

This isn’t the land of the Mexican Beer Flu.  We have trademark and copyright laws here.  Go Jets!

[Bruce Harper]

On 1/30/2020 at 5:00 PM, sameoldjetsstore said:

This isn't one of those threads, considering my products have all been taken down by Shopify and you literally can't buy them right now. I'm not here to sell anything. 

And in order to win one of these cases you generally have to hire an expert to conduct a consumer survey which can be 100k plus.  Even if you have a lawyer who isn't charging you, not many of these experts work for free.  

Normally the burden of proof would be on the NFL to prove confusion but because the items have already been removed it appears that the onus may be on you to prove no confusion or proper parody/fair use.

[Integrity28]

12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sorry, I cannot stand nor abide pirates. 

Thieves who believe the work of others is theirs to exploit.  I don't have any love for Woody or his wallet, but I cannot tolerate IP pirates.

So TLDR:  Nope.

Agreed.

[Dcat]

6 hours ago, JTJet said:

Hell yes lol "See were the home of the Big MICK, McDonalds has the Big Mac...totally different" 

?

Cannot WAIT for the sequel this year!!

Irony:  Wasn't Eddie Murphy accused of plagiarizing the plot for Coming to America?  McDowells indeed.

We're back in business Mortimer!

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 1/30/2020 at 1:09 PM, JTJet said:

Honestly man, I dont want to burst your bubble but I dont think you have a leg to stand on in this case... like at all. 

I read the blog post and know my share of trademark law, not saying I'm an unequaled master of it, but I can at least intelligently talk about it. 

"Trademark infringement is the unauthorized use of a trademark or service mark (or a substantially similar mark) on competing or related goods and services. The success of a lawsuit to stop the infringement turns on whether the defendant's use causes a likelihood of confusion in the average consumer."

"Whether the defendant’s use causes a likelihood of confusion and so weakens the value of the plaintiff’s mark. A mark need not be identical to one already in use to infringe upon the owner’s rights. If the proposed mark is similar enough to the earlier mark to risk confusing the average consumer, its use may constitute infringement if the services or goods on which the two marks are used are related to each other—that is"

 

Any lawyer worth his salt is going to shred you based off of the stuff I underlined. I truly hope you have a successful buisness but I would focus more on adjusting your buisness strategy as opposed to digging into your trenches to make a stand. 

Reality is you're going to lose this fight. 

Really? Seems that hisnuse is not using their trademark just making fun fun of the team. Idk but he might have a shot

[Maxman]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Or just to continue to neg rep anyone who doesn’t agree with you 

Thanks for the bs about wanting to know what people think. 
Or that you would stop Rossi g the downvotes around to those who don’t agree with you

And of course the post claiming you were done.

Consistent 

Here you go again moderating the board. If we want you to chase posters away we will make the font size bigger on your posts.

Otherwise just let it go.

[Maxman]

6 hours ago, SAR I said:

Get.  Out.

Now.

SAR I

You can disagree with his business. But you can't tell posters to leave this site.

If we listened when people told us that someone needed to leave there would be a lot of people gone.

[Maxman]

5 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

I have done some trademark litigation.  You may win your case but it certainly is not the slam dunk that you seem to think it is.

But I will be honest:  I really hate the negative energy of this whole project.  Jets fans can be so negative.  And I don't like the idea of encouraging or exploiting that negative vibe.  

That is interesting.

[RutgersJetFan]

11 hours ago, sameoldjetsstore said:

Only did so because of the obnoxious sarcasm, not because you didn't agree with me. The snide retort wasn't warranted IMO. Regardless, I am here to talk Jets and have already begun posting elsewhere. I'm no longer discussing my store or the legal matter. 

Literally the entire reason for your existence here is because you’re trying to make money being obnoxiously sarcastic. Holy crap with this. Seek help. 

[bla bla bla]

14 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

There is an exception for parody but it is not unlimited.  If the mark is too confusingly similar or would tend to dilute the mark, the exception may not apply.  Certainly not a slam dunk.

Was coming here to say this, not everything is covered as a parody or satire. Ran into a few issues myself at one point, just just easier to remove the logo or become licensed.

Side note, made a "Gase at my Jim Bob Cooter" bath towel, apparently that was frowned upon too haha