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Maccagnan passed on Mahomes for Darnold, not Adams


Larz
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9 hours ago, 20andOut said:

Another BS 20-20 Hindsight thread!

Just to be sure I rechecked the 2017 mock drafts and nobody had Mahomes going as early as he went so credit to KC for seeing something nobody else did.  It is not like Mccagnan missed something that everybody else saw (not that i am trying to defend Mac). 

Nobody saw it says something about the draft experts.  AZ would have taken him which is why KC traded ahead of them.  Maybe Andy Reid and Bruce Arians aren't nobody.

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1 hour ago, varjet said:

Missing Mahomes, the next Brady, was pretty bad.  But in retrospect he was a risk, and other teams passed on him too.  He would not have been good on the Jets   There was no way we could have coached or supported him  

I am more worked up about Polite, Darron, Adarius, Hansen, Donahue passing on Kittle, Godwin, Whitehair, Deion Jones.  Many more in both columns  

But the result was the same.  Mac is gone, and out of football forever.  

You can be right but this argument still pisses me off. It basically says everything is meaningless because even when we draft good players we will muck it up. And they call me a SOJF! ;)

 

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17 minutes ago, HessStation said:

He screwed up royally not taking Mahomes or Watson in year 2 and you can’t ever forget the three draft picks lost to get Darnold...nothing against Darnold btw....it’s just sh*tty team building for a GM who didn’t seem to understand he wasn’t getting 6 years to build a team in NYC

God he's so awful. I can't believe I once tried defending him. I'm too nice of a person. Just awful all across the board.

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10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Well seeing as he traded up to #3 and the odds were there is no way he was going to get Danrold unless two teams head of him were monumentally  stupid this whole premise is stupid and inaccurate.

Also IF he fell in love with Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen and Allen it highlights all the more how bloody awful he was by doing nothing in that draft to fix the oline or get any legit weapons.

McCagnan was the worst GM this team has had by orders of magnitude.  Far far worse than Idzik.

Rereading this because that OP was so long. 

OL comment withstanding, right or wrong, this is the class Mac targeted. You are blaming him for not doing something impossible. There was no way Cleveland  was trading out of the top spot and if you thought the Giants were, I was sure they woukd not select a QB. They still had faith in Eli. I was pretty sure Barkley was their guy. I'm sure i wasn't  the only one who thought this. 

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4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Yeah, this is true and looking back it was extremely  risky but Mahomes was not thought to be this QB he became or Alex Smith doesn't  start ahead of him his rookie season.

If Alex Smith was on our team and we had a good HC he would have started ahead of Sam last year.

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We all know how bad a GM and talent evaluator Macc was, and how poor his drafting was.

With a team with absolutely no talent on offense or at QB, Macc picked a Strong Safety over a future Super Bowl winning QB and a Playoff QB to maybe have a chance, in theory, and at the cost of a #1 pick and three additional 2nd round picks, at maybe getting Sam "11-15 through 2 seasons" Darnold if the Browns and Giants didn't want him.

It is what it is.  Can't be changed now.  

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10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Well seeing as he traded up to #3 and the odds were there is no way he was going to get Danrold unless two teams head of him were monumentally  stupid this whole premise is stupid and inaccurate.

Also IF he fell in love with Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen and Allen it highlights all the more how bloody awful he was by doing nothing in that draft to fix the oline or get any legit weapons.

McCagnan was the worst GM this team has had by orders of magnitude.  Far far worse than Idzik.

Great point.

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11 hours ago, Nixhead said:

McCagnan could of passed Starbucks for Dunkin Donuts and wouldn't even know it. McCagnan didn't have any kind of a plan. Actually his plan was Hackenberg. He wouldn't admit that plan failed cause it might of meant his job so I doubt he even looks seriously at a QB that next draft. Then he became desperate and lucks into Sammy -  not a bad consolation prize but then he hires the head coach that gets him fired - he got what he deserved all along!

Image result for gif clapping

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11 hours ago, Larz said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/16/new-york-jets-sam-darnold-2018-draft

 

Maccagnan scouted 2 QB draft classes at the same time.  He fell in love with Darnold. He passed on an entire QB draft class for Darnold.  He would have taken Mayfield if Darnold was gone of course but make no mistake, the reason Heimerdinger said he had a horseshoe up his ass was because Darnold fell to him.  Adams also fell to him.

ADAMS WAS NEVER SPECIFICALLY TARGETED but Darnold WAS

please stop with the nonsense

 

 

The Jets’ Long Road to Sam Darnold

The pursuit was years in the making—from the moment Sam Darnold first turned up on the Jets’ radar as a USC scout team quarterback in 2015 to the fateful day in April 2018 when the prize prospect fell into the laps of Mike Maccagnan and crew. Here’s everything that went into the scouting and drafting of a franchise QB
ALBERT BREER
MAY 16, 2018

This sh*t is almost two years old and we knew it was bullsh*t then.  This was the sh*t that was supposed to make us understand the master plan and believe in Spencer Long.  The guy was a ******* moron.  He passed on Mahomes and Watson for a chance at Mayfield.  There were plenty of reports that the Jets were looking to draft Mayfield before that draft.

11 hours ago, SAR I said:

Watson is missing the clutch gene and Mahomes just became the luckiest Super Bowl MVP in NFL history.

I'll take Darnold, thanks.  No, he's not Mahomes, but he's Top 3 in the AFC and damn if that doesn't feel good right now.

SAR I

Right now?  I doubt he is in the "Top 3 in the AFC" if you only count QBs from the 2017 and 2018 draft classes. How does that make you feel, right now?

9 hours ago, The Gun Of Bavaria said:

You could have Montana, Brady, Elway, Manning, Mahomes or any other multiple-Super Bowl winning QBs on the Jets and not a single one of them would have or could have done squat in this organization. The are an ongoing horror show where QBs come to die.  

 

37 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Rereading this because that OP was so long. 

OL comment withstanding, right or wrong, this is the class Mac targeted. You are blaming him for not doing something impossible. There was no way Cleveland  was trading out of the top spot and if you thought the Giants were, I was sure they woukd not select a QB. They still had faith in Eli. I was pretty sure Barkley was their guy. I'm sure i wasn't  the only one who thought this. 

They didn't have to win so many games.  They could have sunk or swam with Petty and Hackenberg.  Then they either had and NFL QB or a better draft pick.  Instead they had a mentor and a need to trade up, which you acknowledge they could not completely accomplish. 

The Giants did not have so much faith in Eli.  They took Webb in the 3rd in 2017, Lauletta in the 4th in 2018, and Jones at 6 overall in 2019.  They just aren't so great at evaluating QBs. 

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

As if you don't know

Apparently @The Crusher thinks I did but I am so far removed from pop culture these days that it was a bit unsettling watching last night. I didn't recognize either of the male singers at all and only knew of Jlo because she's 50. I think 2 songs sounded vaguely familiar as well as the tease of Zeppelin.

 

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2 hours ago, varjet said:

Missing Mahomes, the next Brady, was pretty bad.  But in retrospect he was a risk, and other teams passed on him too.  He would not have been good on the Jets   There was no way we could have coached or supported him  

I am more worked up about Polite, Darron, Adarius, Hansen, Donahue passing on Kittle, Godwin, Whitehair, Deion Jones.  Many more in both columns  

But the result was the same.  Mac is gone, and out of football forever.  

This is what we get when you have the 2 worst GM's back to back.

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:
  • plus ultimately using that 1st round pick on Darron Lee who was cut after just 3 forgettable seasons).
  • The glorious fable continues as he is now 100% all-in on Darnold in ‘18. Now a smart man, who’s sacrificing yet another season for 1

I went too multiquote and forgot one of my main points.  Even if you conclude that he passed on Mahomes for Darnold, it wasn't just Mahomes for Darnold, it was Mahomes for Darnold + a lost season with no hope.  Thanks Mac.  2017 was a bundle of fun!

OTOH, get your facts straight young man!  Darron Lee was not cut.  He was traded by a team without a general manager for a 6th round pick which Joe Douglas rolled into the immortal Nate Hairston, who played around a third of the snaps on our CB deprived team.  At least he is under contract for 2020, though he got the escalator so it is as $2M+.  This is the 3rd guy the Colts have dumped in that situation, 2 for draft picks Hairston, Henry Anderson and Tarrell Basham. 

 

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

These defeatist stances are emotionally comforting and protective to those that make them, because they convince themselves we were in lose-lose situations anyway, and therefore we didn’t really lose out on what we obviously lost.

I think that plus a heaping helping of defending Darnold and/or Adams both thier current performance and future prospects.

Some people hear "we should've drafted Mahommes" as you saying "Darnold isnt good"

When they say "Mahommes wouldn't be good here" it's really a defense of Darnolds poor play thus far

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1 hour ago, Samtorobby47 said:

God he's so awful. I can't believe I once tried defending him. I'm too nice of a person. Just awful all across the board.

Admitting the problem is first step toward solving the problem.

35 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Mike Maccagnan was franchise poison.

Too long to quote but what a great, and painful, chronology of the Suck of Macc.

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This “[Name of other team’s great player] wouldn’t have been as good if we drafted him,” is the most defeatist garbage any fan could possibly write.

e.g. Mahomes (or anyone) wouldn’t have been good here, but we can succeed with a demonstrably lesser QB like Darnold. Or with the guy our GM actually thought he’d be getting in Mayfield. Or the Rosen One he would have ended up with if the Giants weren’t brain dead, since these fans would be saying the same thing in those scenarios. It’d be accompanied by others claiming, “The Jets and their lousy coach(es) ruined this great prospect Josh Rosen,” while trying to draw parallels from David Carr to Mark Sanchez. You know it as well as I do.

These defeatist stances are emotionally comforting and protective to those that make them, because they convince themselves we were in lose-lose situations anyway, and therefore we didn’t really lose out on what we obviously lost.

Perhaps the most brilliant (and succinct!) post you've ever written. This is exactly what would be happening if we had Rosen. Anyone who said "Gee, Rosen doesn't look too good," would be called SOJF losers who secretly hope the team fails. Remember, this fanbase defended Geno Smith, one of the five dumbest starting QBs in NFL history.

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10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This “[Name of other team’s great player] wouldn’t have been as good if we drafted him,” is the most defeatist garbage any fan could possibly write.

e.g. Mahomes (or anyone) wouldn’t have been good here, but we can succeed with a demonstrably lesser QB like Darnold. Or with the guy our GM actually thought he’d be getting in Mayfield. Or the Rosen One he would have ended up with if the Giants weren’t brain dead, since these fans would be saying the same thing in those scenarios. It’d be accompanied by others claiming, “The Jets and their lousy coach(es) ruined this great prospect Josh Rosen,” while trying to draw parallels from David Carr to Mark Sanchez. You know it as well as I do.

These defeatist stances are emotionally comforting and protective to those that make them, because they convince themselves we were in lose-lose situations anyway, and therefore we didn’t really lose out on what we obviously lost.

These other QBs have gone to pro bowls, playoffs, and even Super Bowls and winter MVP awards. Meanwhile our moral victory is to finally earn pick #11 since it’s lower than #6 overall, because we finally got a young QB who just had 5 more TDs than turnovers. Also we got a safety. Two, actually.

If we took Mahomes, Adams would be a SB champion today and safety would be the most important position in the NFL. 

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4 hours ago, Warfish said:

If the Jets had missed on Darnold and instead waited and drafted Daniel Jones, the very same folks saying Darnold is the 2nd best QB in the AFC today and that Jones sucks would be saying Jones is the 2nd best QB in the AFC and that Darnold (a NY Giant) was the worst.

You just can't argue with homer any more than you can argue with religion.  When an argument starts with an inflexible pre-determined answer, there can't really be any objective debate.

Bingo. Then the goal posts change when they are proven wrong.

"Tannehill will be CBPOTY"

"He's not even a starter. HAHAHA! You're insane!"

Tannehill wins CBPOTY

"Eh, that was an easy call after he landed in the perfect situation/great cast/coaching."

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1 hour ago, HessStation said:

He screwed up royally not taking Mahomes or Watson in year 2 and you can’t ever forget the three draft picks lost to get Darnold...nothing against Darnold btw....it’s just sh*tty team building for a GM who didn’t seem to understand he wasn’t getting 6 years to build a team in NYC

Hess come play Mafia.  Miss you!

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What a gigantic crock of sh*t this article is. Mike Macagnan WANTED, COVETED, CHASED, and DRAFTED Hackenberg. His man love for Hackenberg was so big that he decided to draft Darron Lee and Justin Burriss just so he could make sure he had a 2nd round pick to select Hackenberg with. Mike Macagnan was possibly even worse than John Idzik.

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

This sh*t is almost two years old and we knew it was bullsh*t then.  This was the sh*t that was supposed to make us understand the master plan and believe in Spencer Long.  The guy was a ******* moron.  He passed on Mahomes and Watson for a chance at Mayfield.  There were plenty of reports that the Jets were looking to draft Mayfield before that draft.

Right now?  I doubt he is in the "Top 3 in the AFC" if you only count QBs from the 2017 and 2018 draft classes. How does that make you feel, right now?

 

They didn't have to win so many games.  They could have sunk or swam with Petty and Hackenberg.  Then they either had and NFL QB or a better draft pick.  Instead they had a mentor and a need to trade up, which you acknowledge they could not completely accomplish. 

The Giants did not have so much faith in Eli.  They took Webb in the 3rd in 2017, Lauletta in the 4th in 2018, and Jones at 6 overall in 2019.  They just aren't so great at evaluating QBs. 

If they had started Petty or Hack, there would have been an internal riot on the team. Everyone who observed the Jets knew these two QB's did not belong in the league and I'm sure that included the players. It is important to the players not to be part of a team that is tanking. Look at the Fins. They had to trade every player worth a 💩. Also same scenario  there. They could have started Rosen. I thought the Jets did the next best thing, bringing in an old career loser like McKown. At least it looked like they were trying to have something respectable  at the position.

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6 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Yeah, this is true and looking back it was extremely  risky but Mahomes was not thought to be this QB he became or Alex Smith doesn't  start ahead of him his rookie season.

No. Kansas City was a playoff team and superbowl contender (as are all playoff teams). Almost no HC is going to unnecessarily bench his veteran probowl QB, still playing at the level you want, for a 22 year-old rookie. Not unless that veteran QB is having repeated meltdowns. Every team would love the luxury of bringing a young QB along more slowly, while still winning double-digit games along the way. Few want to play rookie QBs; it just ends up that way because of pressure (not many have Reid's clout) and circumstance (not many 1st round QBs go to teams who already have a probowl QB). 

As it was they won 10 games and I hardly think one could peg the Oakland or Jets losses on Alex Smith. Once that rookie season was over, losing in the playoffs by a point, and Reid had a better handle on what he had in both players (and what he didn't), then he traded Smith, deciding that the x-factor was worth the risk of being an also-ran for even longer. 

With this argument you'd think KC was a 5-11 Jets team with Smith in at QB. It's a poor situational comparison. A better comparison is Aaron Rodgers getting drafted in round 1 by Green Bay while the Packers still had Favre. 

FFS Maccagnan couldn't even know for sure if Darnold would be in the 2018 draft. What if Darnold got injured, or just simply had a playing setback junior year because of key teammate injuries, and decided to return for his senior season? Then on top of the subsequent moves to reduce the chances of getting this player (adding McCown and then 2 veteran WRs at the end of August), while ignoring the young or long-term building blocks that would be necessary if he somehow got exactly what he wanted at QB. Only a fool makes a low percentage gamble this - like gambling blackjack, I don't know, like splitting 10s into a deck weak in 10s against an A -- you could still win, and clean up double at that, but don't kid yourself: a lucky fool is still a fool.

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

If they had started Petty or Hack, there would have been an internal riot on the team. Everyone who observed the Jets knew these two QB's did not belong in the league and I'm sure that included the players. It is important to the players not to be part of a team that is tanking. Look at the Fins. They had to trade every player worth a 💩. Also same scenario  there. They could have started Rosen. I thought the Jets did the next best thing, bringing in an old career loser like McKown. At least it looked like they were trying to have something respectable  at the position.

Everyone knew?  Everyone?  Then why were we wasting roster spots carrying 4 QBs?  I am sure it included the players.  I am far from sure that it included Maccagnan, and it further highlights how stupid he was to pass on both Mahomes and Watson.  

Adams is a good player.  Maybe a great one.  They were planning to waste 1/4 of his low priced controlled years on a season where they were begging to lose?  How ******* stupid.  QBs are a commodity.  If they show anything they have value.  If they'd drafted one of the others and he showed even modest ability they could have traded him for value.  Rosen blows donkeys and he got back a 2nd and 5th.  sh*t, even Hackenberg got a conditional pick.

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