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What kind/style of team is best for today's NFL? What do you want the NY Jets to be?


jetstream23
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We saw a high octane passing offense with just enough rushing and defense win a Super Bowl yesterday.  They beat a 49ers team that was built around Defense and running the ball.  For 3 quarters last night the Ferrari was kept in the garage....but when it came out we saw once again that speed kills.  Tyreek Hill, Damien Williams, even Hardman to a degree had some very key plays.

We also saw a team led by the League MVP, a rushing QB, make an earlier exit than expected....at the hands of a team with a brutal, power rushing game led by Derrick Henry.

The Super Bowl gave us younger QBs like Mahomes and Garoppolo, while we watched aging veterans like Rodgers, Brees and Brady depart in earlier rounds of the playoffs.

So what types of teams CAN win in the NFL?  What kind of team should be built to win in this new decade of the NFL?

For more than 3 quarters last night the defense and rushing game of San Francisco dragged Jimmy G along to a 20-10 lead...until it all fell apart.  If game managers like Ryan Tannehill and Jimmy G can take their teams to Conference Championship games and Super Bowls on the backs of rushing and defense....does that mean anything?  For the first half of the Super Bowl a Fullback (Kyle Juszczyk) was trending as a potential Super Bowl MVP!

Did KC add enough in the offseason with DE Frank Clark and S Tyrann Mathieu that it was just enough to keep KC within striking distance and win a Super Bowl?  Or, did SF actually have the right formula last night and Kyle Shanahan just choked it away?

It is unsustainable to have a GREAT quarterback, GREAT Defense, GREAT Rushing attack, GREAT Special Teams, etc. all at the same time.  Teams like that don't last long because of the salary cap.  (Side note:  Speaking of Special Teams....it was never really a significant factor last night....or WAS it?  Kickoffs to the goal line by KC ended up pinning SF to their own 15 or 20 a couple of times.  Nobody missed a FG or XP, and the punters were largely consistent....as was kick coverage.  I think Special Teams last night was very notable....for not being noticed much at all.  Just solid and consistent.)

So what style of team should the Jets be building?  Perimeter speed for the passing game?  A rushing attack that you KNOW can get at least 3-4 yards every time you need it?  A suffocating defense equally adept at stopping the run and defending the pass?  We can't have it all.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

We saw a high octane passing offense with just enough rushing and defense win a Super Bowl yesterday.  They beat a 49ers team that was built around Defense and running the ball.  For 3 quarters last night the Ferrari was kept in the garage....but when it came out we saw once again that speed kills.  Tyreek Hill, Damien Williams, even Hardman to a degree had some very key plays.

We also saw a team led by the League MVP, a rushing QB, make an earlier exit than expected....at the hands of a team with a brutal, power rushing game led by Derrick Henry.

The Super Bowl gave us younger QBs like Mahomes and Garoppolo, while we watched aging veterans like Rodgers, Brees and Brady depart in earlier rounds of the playoffs.

So what types of teams CAN win in the NFL?  What kind of team should be built to win in this new decade of the NFL?

For more than 3 quarters last night the defense and rushing game of San Francisco dragged Jimmy G along to a 20-10 lead...until it all fell apart.  If game managers like Ryan Tannehill and Jimmy G can take their teams to Conference Championship games and Super Bowls on the backs of rushing and defense....does that mean anything?  For the first half of the Super Bowl a Fullback (Kyle Juszczyk) was trending as a potential Super Bowl MVP!

Did KC add enough in the offseason with DE Frank Clark and S Tyrann Mathieu that it was just enough to keep KC within striking distance and win a Super Bowl?  Or, did SF actually have the right formula last night and Kyle Shanahan just choked it away?

It is unsustainable to have a GREAT quarterback, GREAT Defense, GREAT Rushing attack, GREAT Special Teams, etc. all at the same time.  Teams like that don't last long because of the salary cap.  (Side note:  Speaking of Special Teams....it was never really a significant factor last night....or WAS it?  Kickoffs to the goal line by KC ended up pinning SF to their own 15 or 20 a couple of times.  Nobody missed a FG or XP, and the punters were largely consistent....as was kick coverage.  I think Special Teams last night was very notable....for not being noticed much at all.  Just solid and consistent.)

So what style of team should the Jets be building?  Perimeter speed for the passing game?  A rushing attack that you KNOW can get at least 3-4 yards every time you need it?  A suffocating defense equally adept at stopping the run and defending the pass?  We can't have it all.

 

 

A GROUND and POUND team. The Jets already have a great young QB. A QB that can operate a high octane passing offense. Sammy is not there yet, but I have confidence he'll eventually become that.

Building a GROUND and POUND offense otherwise allows you options. It makes your offense very versatile. They can score fast like the Chefs offense or they can slow it down and the defense can know that in 8 to 10 minutes of run heavy offense the offense WILL score a touchdown. Just like the Jets circa 2009.

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12 minutes ago, SR24 said:

Power run team with lots of play action passes and roll outs to play to Sams strengths. That's the way I'd build my team

So you would build the team that just lost the SB?  

j/k.  I love that kind of team, but KC just ate two of them alive after spotting them big leads.

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2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

So you would build the team that just lost the SB?  

j/k.  I love that kind of team, but KC just ate two of them alive after spotting them big leads.

Yes and no haha I'd build that exact team and then leave Shanahan home for the SB guy is the ultimate choke artist

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1 minute ago, NYJ1 said:

A GROUND and POUND team. The Jets already have a great young QB. A QB that can operate a high octane passing offense. Sammy is not there yet, but I have confidence he'll eventually become that.

Building a GROUND and POUND offense otherwise allows you options. It makes your offense very versatile. They can score fast like the Chefs offense or they can slow it down and the defense can know that in 8 to 10 minutes of run heavy offense the offense WILL score a touchdown. Just like the Jets circa 2009.

Having a team that can run the ball is different than ground and pound.  The Jets will not be ground and pound. Even if they want to open it up, the Jets have a long way to go to score like the Chiefs.   The 2009 Jets couldn't run out the clock against the Colts, let alone score a TD. 

I just want an offense that can score points.  I don't care how, I don't care why.  Just put the ******* points on the board and success will follow.

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Having a team that can run the ball is different than ground and pound.  The Jets will not be ground and pound. Even if they want to open it up, the Jets have a long way to go to score like the Chiefs.   The 2009 Jets couldn't run out the clock against the Colts, let alone score a TD. 

I just want an offense that can score points.  I don't care how, I don't care why.  Just put the ******* points on the board and success will follow.

Agreed. Ground n' Pound has the connotation of power running, 4 yards and a cloud of dust, body parts everywhere.  It's essentially "high percentage rushing" that you know will get you a few yards but might be unlikely to get you more than 10 very often.

The 49ers didn't always pound it.  They had some speedy running backs who found creases to slip through and then would go for 15 yards.  And, we KNOW what kind of speed KC has.  Damien Williams isn't a pounder...he's The Flash!

Maybe instead of Ground n' Pound we want Crease n' Grease?  Fast, slippery running backs that are running through creases and small gaps created by the OLine.....not big RBs running into the backs of OLinemen who just pushed forward for 3 yards?

(I might have to trademark that crease and grease! lol )

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I think the model that can keep a team completive the longest and keep a team in any game is the Seahawks, Rams, Niners model.

Strong run game, good PA passing off of it, and a good defense.  The Chiefs remind me of the old Packers and Saints teams.  High octane with great QB play.  When those teams are clicking they are hard to beat, but if they aren't firing on all cylinders on offense are they good enough to beat good teams?  The Chiefs were last night.

I'll be very interested to see how the Chiefs structure the roster moving forward.  Do they take away a few resources on offense to make the defense better?  Mahomes is the consensus best QB in the NFL, so he shouldn't need the plethora of weapons to carry that offense.

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I think what you saw from KC will eventually become legendary. No team in NFL history has come back from 24 down, 10 down and 10 down in the post season. What they did with that offense was better than the Rams Greatest Show of Turf, All the New England teams, Manning's Colts teams, Brees Saints teams, Rodgers Packers teams. None of them. That makes this group special in my eyes and not the norm.

You see I think (or at least what I read here) is you are either all in one way or all in the other way. I would rather have a balance, slightly more to the pass in building that offense and have a killer defense.

Overall I still think the Niners are the better team but when I think of the Chiefs offense I will think of them like the 2000 Ravens D. 

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2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I think the model that can keep a team completive the longest and keep a team in any game is the Seahawks, Rams, Niners model.

Strong run game, good PA passing off of it, and a good defense.  The Chiefs remind me of the old Packers and Saints teams.  High octane with great QB play.  When those teams are clicking they are hard to beat, but if they aren't firing on all cylinders on offense are they good enough to beat good teams?  The Chiefs were last night.

I'll be very interested to see how the Chiefs structure the roster moving forward.  Do they take away a few resources on offense to make the defense better?  Mahomes is the consensus best QB in the NFL, so he shouldn't need the plethora of weapons to carry that offense.

Chiefs put a heavy emphasis on D this last offseason; Mathieu, Clark, Lee, Breeland, Okafor and they did this without sacrificing anything on offense because any GM worth his salt can balance a cap appropriately to accomodate for talent. 

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What killed the 49ers was going away from the run.  Yes you need to pass the ball but I still feel that if you have a really good defense and can run the ball you will wear the other team out.  For whatever reason Shanahan decided the abandon what worked and it cost him 

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Chiefs put a heavy emphasis on D this last offseason; Mathieu, Clark, Lee, Breeland, Okafor and they did this without sacrificing anything on offense because any GM worth his salt can balance a cap appropriately to accomodate for talent. 

Won't be that easy when Mahomes is taking up a nearly 20% of the salary cap.  They won't have room to have all those contracts then and will have to decide the best route.  In a few years, they won't have the cap space to fill glaring needs with high priced vets like they did this year.

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I love watching an offense that stretches the field throwing long for big plays which also opens up long runs by moving a safety out of the box. It makes it way more exciting.  Ground and pound is a) dull and b) gives you little chance of coming back from deficits like you've seen the Chiefs do all post season. This is perhaps from growing up with Namath and the old AFL. 

D? Nothing like a killer pass rush to get 'em off the field on 3rd down to put the ball back in the hands of the high powered O

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4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

There are a number of "styles" that work. 

If we win, I don't care how people define us. 

The only thing I will stipulate is that I  would love to have an elite offense again. It's been so long. 

The best thing about KC is that no matter how far they're down there is always hope.  They have that offense that can come back from being down multiple touchdowns even if there's only one quarter of the game left.  That's really, really positive for a team and I think it's the reason that the Chiefs Defense kept its intensity up and never felt out of it.  They knew that Mahomes could make some magic happen and the D just need to keep them within striking distance.

I have to say, with 9 minutes left and down by 10 points I thought it was over.  I thought the 49ers would suffocate the Chiefs and close out the game.  To win....and not only win, but win by 11 is simply unreal.  3 plays...the long pass to Hill on 3rd and 15, the long pass to Watkins who burnt Richard Sherman down the sideline, and the 40 yard dagger of a TD run by Damien Williams with about 2 minutes left.  That was the whole game right there.  Incredible how Saleh's D collapsed on multiple key plays with just minutes left in the game.

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Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

Won't be that easy when Mahomes is taking up a nearly 20% of the salary cap.  They won't have room to have all those contracts then and will have to decide the best route.  In a few years, they won't have the cap space to fill glaring needs with high priced vets like they did this year.

Yeah but it's really not a challenge at all.  You just need a GM that know what they're doing.  

Look across the otherside of the field and that ridiculous contract they handed Jimmy G.   That team is still absolutely loaded and went out and paid Tevin Coleman, Kwon Alexander, Dee Ford and took on Emmanuel Sanders contract with no sweat of John Lynches back.   And this all with terrible contracts for guys who literally dont even play; Jerrick McKinnon and Marques Goodwin.  They pay a FB like 5 mill a year.  It's very doable you just need a GM that isnt a moron, which the Jets have never had in my life time. 

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14 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Won't be that easy when Mahomes is taking up a nearly 20% of the salary cap.  They won't have room to have all those contracts then and will have to decide the best route.  In a few years, they won't have the cap space to fill glaring needs with high priced vets like they did this year.

Has any team ever tried to structure a huge QB deal in a way that essentially "buries a single season" but gives them normal Cap flexibility for the next 4 or 5?  What I mean is could the Chiefs do something like purge some of their expensive, aging guys for the 2021 season, give Mahomes a huge deal but that pays him a salary of something like $60-70M (not bonus, all counts against Cap in that single season), but then has a palatable $22-27M Cap hit each of the following 4-5 years?  Mahomes still gets a deal that averages something like $35-40M, but the Chiefs feel that pain all upfront.

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25 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I think the model that can keep a team completive the longest and keep a team in any game is the Seahawks, Rams, Niners model.

Strong run game, good PA passing off of it, and a good defense.  The Chiefs remind me of the old Packers and Saints teams.  High octane with great QB play.  When those teams are clicking they are hard to beat, but if they aren't firing on all cylinders on offense are they good enough to beat good teams?  The Chiefs were last night.

I'll be very interested to see how the Chiefs structure the roster moving forward.  Do they take away a few resources on offense to make the defense better?  Mahomes is the consensus best QB in the NFL, so he shouldn't need the plethora of weapons to carry that offense.

Well, should be interesting indeed. They don;t have very much cap space and have some notable free agents on defense. Fuller, Breeland, Jones, Suggs, Ragland, Claiborne. 

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yeah but it's really not a challenge at all.  You just need a GM that know what they're doing.  

Look across the otherside of the field and that ridiculous contract they handed Jimmy G.   That team is still absolutely loaded and went out and paid Tevin Coleman, Kwon Alexander, Dee Ford and took on Emmanuel Sanders contract with no sweat of John Lynches back.   And this all with terrible contracts for guys who literally dont even play; Jerrick McKinnon and Marques Goodwin.  They pay a FB like 5 mill a year.  It's very doable you just need a GM that isnt a moron, which the Jets have never had in my life time. 

No challenge at all, but no franchise outside of the Patriots has figured out how to be consistently in the Superbowl picture

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yet not many can pull it off.

How you figure?  It happens all around the league.  Just look at the playoffs.  3 QB's on rookie contracts and the rest are getting paid handsomely and their teams are loaded.  Handful of teams who just missed the playoffs that are in the same boat too.

You gotta pay to play.

 

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Just now, JiF said:

How you figure?  It happens all around the league.  Just look at the playoffs.  3 QB's on rookie contracts and the rest are getting paid handsomely and their teams are loaded.  Handful of teams who just missed the playoffs that are in the same boat too.

You gotta pay to play.

 

Pointing to playoff teams is selection bias

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7 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

No challenge at all, but no franchise outside of the Patriots has figured out how to be consistently in the Superbowl picture

That's because they cheat and have been circumventing the salary cap for over a decade.  However, plenty of team have figured out how to be perennial playoff teams which is really the more attainable goal and many of them do it by paying a QB lots of money.

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Build Kansas City East perhaps. Dominant offense, and a good enough blitz-happy defense. 

Because 'til further notice the AFC path to SB Sunday goes thru KC. Last two AFC title games were there, they just won it all, and they have an otherworldly kid QB dream teamed with mad offensive scientist Andy Reid. 

Seems dangerous building a team just to counter one team ... but KC is a new gold standard*. Call it KC East or whatever - surely this model is nothing new in today's era ... but yeah, build a dominant offense and a good enough blitz happy defense.

Regarding KC's blitz happy defense: with the Mahomes-led KC "Legion of Zoom" offense -- Spagnuolo knows he can blitz like crazy and risk getting burned. He's got that ace of an offense up his sleeve. His defense gives up some points or big plays who cares - seems only a matter of time until Mahomes & Co. explode to the rescue. All the while Spags' KC blitz D has fun attempting to batter/rattle QBs in to submission like they did Garropolo yesterday.

*Tho no doubt Brady plans his final say about gold standards. Wherever his 2020 high-powered offense will reside. And tho seemingly exposed two playoffs in a row, Ravens should remain a factor.

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