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What kind/style of team is best for today's NFL? What do you want the NY Jets to be?


jetstream23
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16 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Has any team ever tried to structure a huge QB deal in a way that essentially "buries a single season" but gives them normal Cap flexibility for the next 4 or 5?  What I mean is could the Chiefs do something like purge some of their expensive, aging guys for the 2021 season, give Mahomes a huge deal but that pays him a salary of something like $60-70M (not bonus, all counts against Cap in that single season), but then has a palatable $22-27M Cap hit each of the following 4-5 years?  Mahomes still gets a deal that averages something like $35-40M, but the Chiefs feel that pain all upfront.

Not that I can think of.  The danger is, you have to trust the guy to not screw you on the back end.  When it's year 3 and he's playing for $25M/season after cashing that $60M check in year 1, he might decide it's not worth it.  And the issue is, you cannot really get any protection against that because he's already cashed that check.  Some pro athletes have notoriously short memories when it comes to things like big signing bonsues.

What seem likely to work better is if Reid were to hook him up with a very wealthy super-model or heiress.  

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For the Jets....I don't think Darnold has the best deep ball accuracy, so I'd try to build a nice mid-range game for him. I'd even add a third capable TE, since he seems to connect with them really well. Or have a guy that was like Enunwa, just a healthy version. You can keep a guy like Robby, but I think Sam's damage comes from those 15-20 yard passes, so gimme clean route runners, someone who's quick in short spaces, etc. 

The defense...just need to add pieces all along the outside. Outside pass rushers and corners. You got Quinnen, Fatukasi, Mclendon, Philips. Then Mosley and Williamson/Hewitt down the middle. 

 

 

 

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Just now, jgb said:

When one says that something is "easy," only citing the successful cases does not support the point.

First off, I said other teams do it too but you ignored that and only quoted the playoff team portion of my post so this is all for nothing but the bottom line is, perennial playoff teams have franchise QB.  Those QB's require lots of money.  Yet, somehow those teams figure out how to continue to get better despite paying a QB big time money because it's very easy to do for a GM that has a clue. 

 

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It’s been said already, but a great scheme on offense and a competent enough defense. 

I love Kyle Shanahan’s play design and in-game play calling. Yes they have talent on offense, but it looks to me more like scheme than the good fortune of somehow landing Tyreek, Kelce & Mahomes on the same roster all at once. 

The 49ers lost because Jimmy G had a good game but faded towards the end while Mahomes had a poor game but found himself at the end.  
 

As for the Jets, we need an offensive line that allows us an opportunity to have a particular scheme. This offseason should center around that - and I’m pretty sure Douglas and Gase know that. 

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15 minutes ago, JiF said:

First off, I said other teams do it too but you ignored that and only quoted the playoff team portion of my post so this is all for nothing but the bottom line is, perennial playoff teams have franchise QB.  Those QB's require lots of money.  Yet, somehow those teams figure out how to continue to get better despite paying a QB big time money because it's very easy to do for a GM that has a clue. 

 

6 of the last 7 SBs were won by teams with rookie-contract QBs or Patriots with Brady on a sweetheart deal. 

What's easy is building a winner with a phenomenal rookie-contract QB or cheating to massively underpay the GOAT.

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

6 of the last 7 SBs were won by teams with rookie-contract QBs or Patriots with Brady on a sweetheart deal. 

What's easy is building a winner with a phenomenal rookie-contract QB or cheating to massively underpay the GOAT.

So pointing to playoff teams is selection bias but pointing to Super Bowl's are not? 

And I dont think those numbers are accurate.

I'm not arguing that it isnt a luxury but this idea you cant pay a QB and continue to build your roster and win, is totally inaccurate. 

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4 minutes ago, JiF said:

So pointing to playoff teams is selection bias but pointing to Super Bowl's are not? 

And I dont think those numbers are accurate.

I'm not arguing that it isnt a luxury but this idea you cant pay a QB and continue to build your roster and win, is totally inaccurate. 

You made the rules and I played. Glad you agree that selection bias ruins an analysis.

Another convert. A good day's work.

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

You made the rules and I played. Glad you agree that selection bias ruins an analysis.

Another convert. A good day's work.

I dont agree with your stance and your inaccurate data but if this makes you feel better about yourself, than I'm glad I could help! 

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

6 of the last 7 SBs were won by teams with rookie-contract QBs or Patriots with Brady on a sweetheart deal. 

What's easy is building a winner with a phenomenal rookie-contract QB or cheating to massively underpay the GOAT.

Going by SB wins only not the best. Look at teams that consistantly earn byes and home playoff games as in the long run they will play in and thus win more SB's. Theres way more data at work and smooths out the NFL playoff structure of single elimination where anything can and does happen 

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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

I dont agree with your stance and your inaccurate data but if this makes you feel better about yourself, than I'm glad I could help! 

It's not inaccurate. It is rife with selection bias and cherry picked. As was yours.

 

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4 minutes ago, CTM said:

Going by SB wins only not the best. Look at teams that consistantly earn byes and home playoff games as in the long run they will play in and thus win more SB's. Theres way more data at work and smooths out the NFL playoff structure of single elimination where anything can and does happen 

Totally agree. Totally. I was just being a stinker with JiF.

I've said for years there are 100 roads to the SB and 95 of them start with a good/elite QB.

But that doesn't mean it's easy to build a team around a player who makes 25% of the salary cap.

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4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Nope.  My point was perfect and yours is stupid, inaccurate and wrong. 

That's the thing about cherry-picked data. Your own smells like, well, cherries. Everyone else's like week-old fish.

You know what, you're right. It's "easy" to build a SB champion when you have one player making upwards of 25% of your salary cap. The fact that no one has done it in about a decade is a mere triviality. I will grant you'd be a better GM than Macc, sorry if that's an insult. ;) 

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4 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

An offense that can score points running and passing, control the clock and a D that is decent enough to hold a lead for the offense. 

Unabashedly old school here I still believe in a dominant , game controlling run game ( loved the way niners ran the ball against the Packers ) efficient passing game with a top five defense. Has worked for as long as the league has been in existence 

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22 minutes ago, jgb said:

That's the thing about cherry-picked data. Your own smells like, well, cherries. Everyone else's like week-old fish.

You know what, you're right. It's "easy" to build a SB champion when you have one player making upwards of 25% of your salary cap. The fact that no one has done it in about a decade is a mere triviality. I will grant you'd be a better GM than Macc, sorry if that's an insult. ;) 

I actually never said it was easy to build a SB champion under those circumstances.  You created that criteria by cherry picking and then lying about the data.  I simply said it's easy to add talent and any GM worth his salt can figure it out.  I used playoffs teams as an example because well, typically if you make the playoffs you're doing something right and it's not a ridiculous cherry picked criteria like the 1 team that wins the Super Bowl every year.

JiF -1 

jgb - 0 

 

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

I actually never said it was easy to build a SB champion under those circumstances.  You created that criteria by cherry picking and then lying about the data.  I simply said it's easy to add talent and any GM worth his salt can figure it out.  I used playoffs teams as an example because well, typically if you make the playoffs you're doing something right and it's not a ridiculous cherry picked criteria like the 1 team that wins the Super Bowl every year.

JiF -1 

jgb - 0 

 

Lie? Never. Dissimulate? Usually.

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4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The Kansas City model.

Yep draft an elite QB at #10 (with resultant slotted salary) and win it all before he's on his second contract. It's a good model. Second only to the Foxboro Model which is stumble onto the GOAT (or near-GOAT) in the 6th round, win a few when paying him nearly league-minimum, then keep the train rolling with infinite cheats and salary-cap-skirting moves for two decades.

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The thing is the style of team has to mesh with the players you have on the roster. Lamar Jackson and the Ravens are a prime example of something that would not work with a different fast wether it be coaches or players but they have just the right personell to make it work. A good team is built around its talent and does not try to build its talent around the team.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

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That's easy.

I want the Jets to be the Patriots or the Chiefs-  an average team that can play rope-a-dope for 55 minutes and then unleash the superior quarterback and superior receivers to win the game late.

Not only does this consistently ensure a series of 10+ win seasons, but it means they're battle-tested for the playoffs where every game is within a single score with 5 minutes on the clock and the clutch QB throws darts and the creative WR's get open and win the game.

SAR I

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56 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I want the Jets to be the Patriots or the Chiefs-  an average team that can play rope-a-dope for 55 minutes and then unleash the superior quarterback and superior receivers to win the game late.

what lol

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12 minutes ago, CTM said:

what lol

I have a theory that all that matters are the last 5 minutes of an NFL game.  Keep it close (as most are) and if you have the horsepower at QB and WR you can win it late.  Like the Patriots and Chiefs in their Super Bowl runs. 

Salary cap mediocrity everywhere except QB, WR, T, and S.

SAR I

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3 hours ago, SAR I said:

That's easy.

I want the Jets to be the Patriots or the Chiefs-  an average team that can play rope-a-dope for 55 minutes and then unleash the superior quarterback and superior receivers to win the game late.

 

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

I have a theory that all that matters are the last 5 minutes of an NFL game.  Keep it close (as most are) and if you have the horsepower at QB and WR you can win it late.  Like the Patriots and Chiefs in their Super Bowl runs. 

Salary cap mediocrity everywhere except QB, WR, T, and S.

SAR I

So the better team initially keeps it close, intentionally, and then turns it on late for the win?

Why would they do such an absurd thing? The better team wants the exact opposite, the more possessions the better because they understand anything can happen in the short term. The weaker teams want to keep it close and see if they get a good ball bounce or ref whistle late, anything can happen in a drive or two.

Siniliar concept, take Casinos and a game like BJ, there is a small house advantage with perfect strat. The casino wants dealers who can maximize hands per hour while also incentivizing the player to stay as long as possible / come as much as possible with free rooms and meals. Why? because they know the more hands you play the more likely it is thier small advantage is realized.

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45 minutes ago, CTM said:

 

So the better team initially keeps it close, intentionally, and then turns it on late for the win?

Why would they do such an absurd thing? The better team wants the exact opposite, the more possessions the better because they understand anything can happen in the short term. The weaker teams want to keep it close and see if they get a good ball bounce or ref whistle late, anything can happen in a drive or two.

Siniliar concept, take Casinos and a game like BJ, there is a small house advantage with perfect strat. The casino wants dealers who can maximize hands per hour while also incentivizing the player to stay as long as possible / come as much as possible with free rooms and meals. Why? because they know the more hands you play the more likely it is thier small advantage is realized.

I think you’re misunderstanding. I am just saying that instead of building a strong defense, building a strong ground game, or focusing on the basics, it is far more important to have a gunslinging quarterback and acrobatic WR’s who can put up a lot of points in the fourth quarter.

That seems to be the differentiator between the elite teams and the non-elite teams in today’s NFL.  It’s not about blocking and tackling. It’s about putting up big points late in games.   

SAR I

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