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Patriot Killa

List your Top 10 QB’s 25 years or younger.

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1.) Patrick Mahomes
2.) Lamar Jackson
3.) Deshaun Watson
4.) Sam Darnold
5.) Josh Allen
6.) Kyler Murray
7.) Baker Mayfield
8.) Jared Goff
9.) Gardner Minshew
10.) Mitch Trubisky

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3 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

1.) Patrick Mahomes
2.) Lamar Jackson
3.) Deshaun Watson
4.) Sam Darnold
5.) Josh Allen
6.) Kyler Murray
7.) Baker Mayfield
8.) Jared Goff
9.) Gardner Minshew
10.) Mitch Trubisky

I'm no goff fan but ....

And Murray was better this year than sam in either year.

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2 minutes ago, CTM said:

And Murray's was better this year than sam in either year.

Meh about the same as far as Sam’s 2019 and Kylers 2019. Ever so slight TD:INT lean towards Kyler. With 20TD/12INT to 19TD/13INT

Agree that he had a better rookie season.

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1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Meh about the same as far as Sam’s 2019 and Kylers 2019. Ever so slight TD:INT lean towards Kyler. With 20TD/12INT to 19TD/13INT

Agree that he had a better rookie season.

He had significantly better DVOA and his Dyar was positive where as Sam's was negative 

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

can Joe Burrow be on this list? Jordan Love? 

I only did NFL QB’s but you’re welcome to put together your list as you want.

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Just now, CTM said:

He had significantly better DVOA and his Dyar was positive where as Sam's was negative 

Gotcha’.

Tbh never really looked at either. 

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15 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

1.) Patrick Mahomes
2.) Lamar Jackson
3.) Deshaun Watson
4.) Sam Darnold
5.) Josh Allen
6.) Kyler Murray
7.) Baker Mayfield
8.) Jared Goff
9.) Gardner Minshew
10.) Mitch Trubisky

good list.  but why not include guys like burrow or tua or hurts or herbert?  i'm willing to bet that one or more of these guys will knock some of the guys on the list off.

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3 hours ago, CTM said:

I'm no goff fan but ....

And Murray was better this year than sam in either year.

Murray was better but Murray's HC ran the same O he ran in college along with the same terminology.  To be determined if this helps Murray get better or it holds him back.  Sam was thrown into the fire and was learning to be a pro-QB from day 1.  I suspect if the Jets ran USC's O with USC terminology Sam may well have been better statistically and further behind in his development as a top pro QB.  

 

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28 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Murray was better but Murray's HC ran the same O he ran in college along with the same terminology.  To be determined if this helps Murray get better or it holds him back.  Sam was thrown into the fire and was learning to be a pro-QB from day 1.  I suspect if the Jets ran USC's O with USC terminology Sam may well have been better statistically and further behind in his development as a top pro QB.  

 

While that might be true, results are results. Kyler was a better passer last season, statistically. Can’t argue with facts. 

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18 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

While that might be true, results are results. Kyler was a better passer last season, statistically. Can’t argue with facts. 

No doubt.  He also had much better all around talent around him including the OL which while not good was patched in the  off season.  Murray has a great arm and is pretty accurate.  I don't think he will be a great NFL QB.  Sam might be. 

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thread title=  how to manipulate criteria so that sam darnold can be in the top 10 list of anything as an nfl qb

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Mahomes, Darnold and maybe Watson are the only ones I see with any real longterm future as a top tier starter.

Lamar is going to have to be in some gimmicky Greg Roman style offense featuring heavy 3 TE sets where he lines up in the pistol 90% of the time to be at his most effective. Teams can and will figure him out and there’s no way that running a 215 lb QB twelve times a game is sustainable.

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Darnold is on the Jets therefore he should be first and you sir should be ashamed of yourself 

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1. Mahomes
2. Goff
3. Watson
4. Darnold
5. Allen
6. Murray
7. Mayfield
8. Jones
9. Minshew
10. Trubisky

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If you are grading it based on actual defense adjusted measurable performance, Darnold doesn't make the top 10.

List of QB's under 25 with a better DVOA and DYAR than Darnold this year:

  • Mayfield
  • Jackson
  • D. Jones
  • Kyler Murray
  • Josh Allen
  • Watson
  • Minshew
  • Trubisky
  • Goff
  • Mahommes

List of QB's under 25 with worse DVOA and DYAR than Darnold this year

  • Haskins

 

Eye test homerific results?

Darnold #4, begrudgingly behind only the pro bowlers and league MVP's ..

for now...

because we don't want to look foolish ..

subject to change after 1st good quarter..

or the first bad quarter by any of top 3

 

 

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6 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

1.) Patrick Mahomes (AFC)
2.) Lamar Jackson (AFC)
3.) Deshaun Watson (AFC)
4.) Sam Darnold (AFC)
5.) Josh Allen (AFC)
6.) Kyler Murray (NFC)
7.) Baker Mayfield (AFC)
8.) Jared Goff (NFC)
9.) Gardner Minshew (AFC)
10.) Mitch Trubisky (NFC)

 

Should be a nice, fun, easy next decade for the Jets!

Just wait until Burrow (Cincy), Tua (Miami) and Herbert/Love (Chargers) all hit the AFC!

 

bill-murray-2.gif.326994f245a6059f9d39d92684fe5d04.gif

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6 hours ago, CTM said:

He had significantly better DVOA and his Dyar was positive where as Sam's was negative 

I am all for advanced statistics but I think DVOA and DYAR are kinda sh*te.

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15 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

1.) Patrick Mahomes
2.) Lamar Jackson
3.) Deshaun Watson
4.) Sam Darnold
5.) Josh Allen
6.) Kyler Murray
7.) Baker Mayfield
8.) Jared Goff
9.) Gardner Minshew
10.) Mitch Trubisky

Gets really murky outside the top three.

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Now list them by which of this group played behind the worst Oline by whatever metric you want to use. 

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15 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

1.) Patrick Mahomes
2.) Lamar Jackson
3.) Deshaun Watson
4.) Sam Darnold
5.) Josh Allen
6.) Kyler Murray
7.) Baker Mayfield
8.) Jared Goff
9.) Gardner Minshew
10.) Mitch Trubisky

Please.

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4 hours ago, jgb said:

Gets really murky outside the top three.

Type your own up. Mine is based on a little of everything. 19’ results mixed with 20’ projections.

14 hours ago, Losmeister said:

thread title=  how to manipulate criteria so that sam darnold can be in the top 10 list of anything as an nfl qb

I was actually in my sports group chat with my friends and while on the subject just typed this up then copy and pasted for others to do the same. Really no agenda here but okay...

3 hours ago, section314 said:

Please.

I actually forgot Daniel Jones existed so I just put Mitch being that he’s been to the playoffs twice.

 

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11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Type your own up. Mine is based on a little of everything. 19’ results mixed with 20’ projections.

Not a criticism of your list. Just an observation that the top 3 are basically etched in stone but 4-10 are difficult to slot in.

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12 minutes ago, jgb said:

Not a criticism of your list. Just an observation that the top 3 are basically etched in stone but 4-10 are difficult to slot in.

Definitely. I think a lot of it is still up in the air and we won’t know a true 4-10 until 2021 when all these classes have had a chance to continue on with experience. You could put Kyler before Sam or Baker. You could put Allen before Kyler, Sam or Baker. It can go a ton of ways and still have some logic behind however you slot them. 

I cant believe how much better Allen is that what I thought he would be in 2018. I still don’t think he’s a very inaccurate passer outside the hashes and that will hurt him more than once but he very well could be here for the long haul. Kyler Murray as well...I didn’t think he could play at 5’8 or 5’9. He’s got incredible arm talent and athleticism and it definitely makes up for it. I still think Baker is a good QB despite how much I poke fun at his failures.

Darnold has a ton of competition in the AFC’s new era of QB’s.

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Unless the NFL has a rule that QB's can only play until they turn 26, "QB's under 25" means very little tbqh.

But I'll play using the 10 you listed, plus the top 2020 prospects, as of TODAY:

1.) Patrick Mahomes
2.) Lamar Jackson
3.) Deshaun Watson
4.) Jared Goff
5.) Joe Burrow (Draft)
6.) Josh Allen
7.) Mitch Trubisky
Tie 8.) Baker Mayfield & Sam Darnold
10.) Tua Tagovailoa (if Healthy, Draft)
11.) Kyler Murray
12.) Dwayne Haskins Jr.
13.) Justin Herbert (Draft)
14.) Jake Fromm (Draft)
15.) Gardner Minshew

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Unless the NFL has a rule that QB's can only play until they turn 26, "QB's under 25" means very little tbqh.

But I'll play using the 10 you listed, plus the top 2020 prospects, as of TODAY:

1.) Patrick Mahomes
2.) Lamar Jackson
3.) Deshaun Watson
4.) Jared Goff
5.) Joe Burrow (Draft)
6.) Josh Allen
7.) Mitch Trubisky
Tie 8.) Baker Mayfield & Sam Darnold
10.) Tua Tagovailoa (if Healthy, Draft)
11.) Kyler Murray
12.) Justin Herbert (Draft)
13.) Jake Fromm (Draft)
14.) Gardner Minshew
 

Not a big Minshew fan?

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37 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Unless the NFL has a rule that QB's can only play until they turn 26, "QB's under 25" means very little tbqh.

But I'll play using the 10 you listed, plus the top 2020 prospects, as of TODAY:

1.) Patrick Mahomes
2.) Lamar Jackson
3.) Deshaun Watson
4.) Jared Goff
5.) Joe Burrow (Draft)
6.) Josh Allen
7.) Mitch Trubisky
Tie 8.) Baker Mayfield & Sam Darnold
10.) Tua Tagovailoa (if Healthy, Draft)
11.) Kyler Murray
12.) Dwayne Haskins Jr.
13.) Justin Herbert (Draft)
14.) Jake Fromm (Draft)
15.) Gardner Minshew

What on earth is Trubisky doing head of... well, anyone really. Ahead of Minshew? Murray??.... Darnold/Mayfield... lol gtfo

0/32 would take Mitch over those names

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3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

What on earth is Trubisky doing head of... well, anyone really. Ahead of Minshew? Murray??.... Darnold/Mayfield... lol gtfo

0/32 would take Mitch over those names

100%. Trubisky is trash.

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  1. Mahomes
  2. Watson
  3. Lamar Jackson
  4. Kyler Murray
  5. Darnold
  6. Goff
  7. Gardner Minshew
  8. Mayfield
  9. Trubisky
  10. Josh Rosen

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:
  1. Mahomes
  2. Watson
  3. Lamar Jackson
  4. Kyler Murray
  5. Darnold
  6. Goff
  7. Gardner Minshew
  8. Mayfield
  9. Trubisky
  10. Josh Rosen

No Josh Allen?

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Just now, Patriot Killa said:

No Josh Allen?

Saving him for the best RBs 25 or under list.

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@Paradis Where is your list again?

I should honestly just skip these laughably obvious feel-good threads, the "Isn't Sam just the dreamy bestest!" agenda behind them is so very clear.  

 

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Mahomes is on a plane by himself. He's probably the best QB in the league.

I've always been a big Watson guy, he's next.

Jackson I'll give the benefit of the doubt right below Watson. I don't really believe in him long term but the guy just won MVP, gotta give him credit for this season.

The next tier are the unproven guys who have upside -- Darnold, Mayfield, Murray, Allen, etc. I like Darnold the best of this crew.

Next are guys I've seen play enough to think they are frauds, with includes Trubisky and Goff.

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It feels weird adding college QB's to this list, especially this year when I honestly think all these prospects suck.  I mean, maybe Joe Burrow might be ok in the NFL but seems a little too assumptive to list him when he's never taken a down in the NFL.  So I'll just stick with the current NFL QB's under 25. 

1. Mahomes

2. Watson

3. Jackon

4. Darnold

5. Murray

6. Goff

7.  Minshew

8.  Allen

9.  Lock

10. Jones 

 

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41 minutes ago, JiF said:

It feels weird adding college QB's to this list, especially this year when I honestly think all these prospects suck.  I mean, maybe Joe Burrow might be ok in the NFL but seems a little too assumptive to list him when he's never taken a down in the NFL.  So I'll just stick with the current NFL QB's under 25. 

1. Mahomes

2. Watson

3. Jackon

4. Darnold

5. Murray

6. Goff

7.  Minshew

8.  Allen

9.  Lock

10. Jones 

 

Adding in the college kids could be interesting.  
 

1. Mahomes 

2. Watson

3. Jackson

4. Darnold 

5. T. Lawrence

6. J.  Burrow

7. Josh Allen

8. Goff

9. Murray

10. J. Fields 

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