Idzik v. Macc: The Final Word

[jgb]

Just now, DRJETS said:

Yeah but taking a box safety as good as he ever going to be over two future HOF QB was unforgivable.  #BAP

The best part about the Macc flameout is the utter repudiation of #BAP, which is just a name for risk-averse, drafting-not-to-lose, weakness.

[CTM]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Can I pull the trigger of the grenade launcher? 

I think most will want that honor, charity auction for the rights?

[BurnleyJet]

Please vote on who’s sh*t smells worse.

[BROOKLYN JET]

Death by bungie!

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

The best part about the Macc flameout is the utter repudiation of #BAP, which is just a name for risk-averse, drafting-not-to-lose, weakness.

BAP works as long as positional importance is factored in.  Completely ignoring the Offensive Line is inexcusable in that light.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

BAP works as long as positional importance is factored in.  Completely ignoring the Offensive Line is inexcusable in that light.

BAP is crap. Mel Kiper ranks based on BAP. GMs are managing actual teams with actual needs. If Mahomes tears an ACL game one next year and Chiefs get top pick, do they go Travor because #BAP? No, they trade the fugg down away from the consensus BAP. Which is what a BAP acolyte should do if a clear best player is available when they are on the clock that is not a position of need. Problem was Macc didn't get this and always balked from trading down because not only was he a slave to BAP but also the hilarious inaccurate and outdated draft chart.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, CTM said:

I think most will want that honor, charity auction for the rights?

Fair but I'm calling shotgun on using this gif when Pacturd goes down: 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

BAP is crap. Mel Kiper ranks based on BAP. GMs are managing actual teams with actual needs.

Right which folds in nicely with positional importance.  Hence why you end up having to take needs into account; premium positions almost always are a need.  Everyone needs OL, CBs, EDGE rushers, etc at all times.

Premium positions tend to have a smaller pool of prospects available to you.  So if the choice is between the last elite OL on the board and the best DT available, you take the OL even if the DT is the BAP on your board.

[rangerous]

20 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Idzik set this franchise back years and basically missed on every draft pick he ever made. At least Mac put us on the path forward with Darnold

here's the thing.  idzik didn't do a very good job drafting but he knew enough what positions to draft.  and as much as been said about the dirty dozen, most of those picks were in the later rounds so the odds of any of them being truly impactful were slim.  mac came in as some sort of good talent evaluator and he just didn't do a very good job.  he had a ton of cap space but brought in a lot of cancers or didn't recognize some of these clowns for who they truly are.  wilky is a prime example.

another point is maybe idzik doesn't pass on mahomes or watson.  sure he drafted geno but geno would've eventually showed himself to be an interception machine and the team would've moved on.  and by drafting mahomes or watson the jets don't waste 2 2nd rounders.  the first one to sign hackenberg and the other two part of the darnold trade.  think about that.  the gm mismanagement caused the team to lose a significant amount of potential talent just because it couldn't draft a qb right.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Right which folds in nicely with positional importance.  Hence why you end up having to take needs into account; premium positions almost always are a need.  Everyone needs OL, CBs, EDGE rushers, etc at all times.

Premium positions tend to have a smaller pool of prospects available to you.  So if the choice is between the last elite OL on the board and the best DT available, you take the OL even if the DT is the BAP on your board.

Caught me editing. Humor me and read my edit. Macc not trading back was a huge whiff. Huge.

[chirorob]

37 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Idzik had an overarching plan that made some sense. Mac didnt. Both were horrendous at the draft. Mac was willing to overpay in FA and Idzik wasn't. Both were hired due to the parameters set by ownership and better candidates turned down interviews because of said parameters. In the end, Maccagnan was worse because he got more time and passed on Watson and Mahomes (Bowles had influence here too).

Idzik had a plan that made sense, in accumulating picks.   He simply could not draft well, and missed on them all.

Macc had no plan, and signed some AWFUL huge contracts.   He somehow led the league in money spent on O Line, while having a bottom 5 O Line.   He wasted over 100 million on signing cornerbacks who did nothing, drafted 3-4 DE after 3-4 DE, and didn't even get good ones.   He sucked.

[chirorob]

4 minutes ago, rangerous said:

here's the thing.  idzik didn't do a very good job drafting but he knew enough what positions to draft.  and as much as been said about the dirty dozen, most of those picks were in the later rounds so the odds of any of them being truly impactful were slim.  mac came in as some sort of good talent evaluator and he just didn't do a very good job.  he had a ton of cap space but brought in a lot of cancers or didn't recognize some of these clowns for who they truly are.  wilky is a prime example.

 

Idzik did most things well, except execute.  

[jgb]

1 minute ago, chirorob said:

He somehow led the league in money spent on O Line, while having a bottom 5 O Line.

This is astounding. But true. Think about how terrible that is.

[Apache 51]

[jgb]

Macc pulling ahead (behind?)

Recency bias? Or just legendary suck?

[SR24]

Has anyone heard from Mac since he got the launch codes? He doesn't belong anywhere near a pro organization 

[bealeb319]

Idzik set this franchise back years and basically missed on every draft pick he ever made. At least Mac put us on the path forward with Darnold

Idzik was hired because he was a numbers guy and our team was in a real crappy spot with the cap, such a bad spot that we were basically forced to trade away our best player right after an injury when his value was down? Idzik fixed our cap space though even if it was by not signing players out of spite because he didn't like Rex.

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[Embrace the Suck]

Idzik at least cleaned up the cap mess. Coffee boy has nothing besides trading 3 2's to move up 3 spots and do the obvious.

[Beerfish]

51 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Idzik did most things well, except execute.  

“What did you think of your Gm's execution?” The answer: “I'm in favor of it.”

[pdxgreen]

Let's compare Justin Beiber to Lil Wayne as guitar players next.

[Matt39]

57 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Idzik had a plan that made sense, in accumulating picks.   He simply could not draft well, and missed on them all.

Macc had no plan, and signed some AWFUL huge contracts.   He somehow led the league in money spent on O Line, while having a bottom 5 O Line.   He wasted over 100 million on signing cornerbacks who did nothing, drafted 3-4 DE after 3-4 DE, and didn't even get good ones.   He sucked.

Trumaine Johnson literally walked into the Jets locker room and said I’m not not going to try.

[Sperm Edwards]

56 minutes ago, jgb said:

Feel free to explain your reasoning.

I went Idzik. Idzik's dirty dozen was just such an outrageous whiff and with a catchy historical name, I believe he will go down as the worst of the worst.

Did you limit grading Idzik's 2 years to Maccagnan's first 2 years - or is it the players Idzik brought in over 2 years weighed against the cherry-picked players Maccagnan brought in over 5 years?

Since the former was deprived of 3 additional draft classes while Maccagnan was, a true apples-to-apples comparison would not even include Adams, Darnold, and more.

Also include that Idzik needed to cut major cap room his first year - and still wasn't under it by much after doing so - and that the 2013 draft was a disaster for a lot of teams (particularly among the top 15) since it was so weak up top in particular. Teams were getting far below chart value to move down -- a bad situation for a guy who was no savant in picking college prospects in the first place. He at least did use one of those first mid-round picks on a low-cost, multi-year productive veteran RB in Ivory. Not to mention it was a comparatively huge advantage for a new GM in Macc's shoes to get a total changing of the guard, so there was no concern about playing politics to shed his inherited HC's favorite scrubs like Sanchez and Eric Smith, has-beens like Scott and Pouha, temporarily useful but meh players like Devito and Greene, and a contract-needy Revis who was barely even running at the time (and whom the Bucs cut after just 1 season after that).

Also the truth is, as humiliating as the infamous "12 players" draft was, 6 of them were picks in rounds 6-7, and GMs couldn't trade comp picks until years after he was fired. It's the first 6 picks that made it so awful. Bad as his 2 drafts were, there were still 3 players that got lucrative second contracts after their rookie deals. 

This isn't at all to say Idzik was good - he wasn't, and deserved to get fired - but rather that he was the lesser stinky of the turds because there was at least a plan (even if he wasn't the man to implement it) and greater built-in disadvantages. And yes his deserved dismissal also includes his embarrassing, rambling presser he gave after halfway through the 2014 season that begged for his dismissal.

The only regret in firing Idzik is that J&J then signed on with Maccagnan for the next 5 offseasons after that. 

[Mogglez]

They both suck eggs, but I will never forgive that scarecrow looking a**hole for the 2014 draft.  F*ck Idzik.

[FidelioJet]

Mac was worse and it’s not even close.



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24:25:31:32

[King P]

The GM who looked like Norb from Angry Beavers. Who had a year with 12 draft picks and cap space. And managed to squander the huge opportunity at rebuilding. 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, King P said:

The GM who looked like Norb from Angry Beavers. Who had a year with 12 draft picks and cap space. And managed to squander the huge opportunity at rebuilding. 

It is my firm belief that Idzik was sabotaging Rex.  I know that I am defending Rex in another thread, but it was something that probably had to be done.   I think he tried in 2013 and failed.  He intentionally got zero corners in 2014 and finished the job.  I wonder if he had any real direction with the team.  It is amazing how many picks on WRs the team has spent over the past 2 regimes with nothing to show for it. 

[King P]

10 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It is my firm belief that Idzik was sabotaging Rex.  I know that I am defending Rex in another thread, but it was something that probably had to be done.   I think he tried in 2013 and failed.  He intentionally got zero corners in 2014 and finished the job.  I wonder if he had any real direction with the team.  It is amazing how many picks on WRs the team has spent over the past 2 regimes with nothing to show for it. 

I believe it too. He definitely sabotaged Rex, which in turn he sabotaged himself. Cut off his nose to spite his face.

[David Harris]

Idzik's one draft was an abomination, Mac actually had to draft better than him.

 

Macc got Darnold, lucked into it but did it anyway.  End of debate.

[Charlie Brown]

7 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

One Word....

Hackenburg......

and all the harm that Mac caused trying to justify that pick!

Mahomes, -----Watson--- neglect the OL, and so on......

 

 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Feel free to explain your reasoning.

I went Idzik. Idzik's dirty dozen was just such an outrageous whiff and with a catchy historical name, I believe he will go down as the worst of the worst.

Id say Idzik.

But would prefer to score it a dead heat.

[nico002]

Mac drafted Sam Darnold. He will be inducted into our ring of honor in 20 years.

[NYJ1]

I think the only reason why Mac is getting more votes is because he's the most recently fired guy that left this team in a shambles. John Idzik was definitely the worst. Mac never squandered a 13 player draft, but Idzik sure as hell did.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

“why the Jets haven’t made the playoffs in   about ten years” 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Idzik was worse in his two years than Mac was in his first two years - Fitzmagic > Revis to pats*

but Mac had more time and got worse over time - both set this franchise back a decade

in retrospect, maybe they should have given Idzik more time LOL

[NYJ1]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

BAP is crap. Mel Kiper ranks based on BAP. GMs are managing actual teams with actual needs. If Mahomes tears an ACL game one next year and Chiefs get top pick, do they go Travor because #BAP? No, they trade the fugg down away from the consensus BAP. Which is what a BAP acolyte should do if a clear best player is available when they are on the clock that is not a position of need. Problem was Macc didn't get this and always balked from trading down because not only was he a slave to BAP but also the hilarious inaccurate and outdated draft chart.

Nonsense. This post is crap.