PFF Ranks Jamal Adams as the 32nd Best Player in the NFL

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5 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

We all understand there are ways out of NFL contracts. These aren't 200 million dollar MLB contracts we're talking about. We can sign Jamal to say 16 mil a year for 6 years with a way out of it in three years if you pony up the guaranteed money early and structure it reasonably. We see it happen all the time in this league.

The simple truth is we don't have anyone else on this roster, other than Darnold, that's really worth re-signing for big money - we're not the Cowboys with a series of difficult decisions to make.

Even if we have an amazing draft this year and find five starters, three of whom that mature into pro bowlers, we'd still not have to worry about re-signing them for at least another three years.

We have time.

The most likely scenario of unloading him for a pick is acquiring some Bryan Thomas type player with the pick. And yea, we saved some money, so we can sign say a Calvin Pace type player and still have some money left over.

The 2 bolded points are my sticking points. I understand positional value and I get we COULD hit on more valuable assets in the draft. I completely agree the most likely outcome is we hit on 1 of the 2 or 3 picks we get for Jamal and that player is of a Bryan Thomas level. Not bad, respectable career but is that worth it?

Maybe it's the wrong way to look at this but I view Jamal as $7m and $11m the next 2 years. If we sign Jamal I can't see us being trapped for longer than a 3rd year. So would I be willing to sacrifice $8m in FA this year and $4m next year? Yea probably, I really don't think many FAs are going to want to choose us anyway so we'll have extra money like we did this past year.

So the final question IMO is would I like to commit 1 year at $16m for that 3rd year? I would. CJ Mosley will be 31 that year and we could save $15.5m from cutting him. 

If you could tell me right now I could trade Jamal for a starting LT and a starting CB/Edge Rusher that will net us ~10 sacks a year then I would slap the stamp on him myself. Unfortunately the draft is wildly unpredictable.

 

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

If you could tell me right now I could trade Jamal for a starting LT and a starting CB/Edge Rusher that will net us ~10 sacks a year then I would slap the stamp on him myself. Unfortunately the draft is wildly unpredictable.

The notion of building a team around an ILB and SS are very predictable:  It's not smart. 

I'll take the devil we don't know over the one we do.  

[bla bla bla]

51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The notion of building a team around an ILB and SS are very predictable:  It's not smart. 

I'll take the devil we don't know over the one we do.  

Sure, I get that but I think it's only an issue if those contracts prevent you from acquiring other players. If we miss out on a player we cover in FA then I'll feel differently but it always feels like we have too much money to spend in FA and not enough players that want to actually play here.

I'm fine with a 3 year commitment or a trade, we lose a ton of value if a decision is not made prior to the draft.

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Sure, I get that but I think it's only an issue if those contracts prevent you from acquiring other players. If we miss out on a player we cover in FA then I'll feel differently but it always feels like we have too much money to spend in FA and not enough players that want to actually play here.

I'm fine with a 3 year commitment or a trade, we lose a ton of value if a decision is not made prior to the draft.

 

Missing out on the picks for Jamal would certainly prevent us from acquiring other players.  

And no, the cap dollars spent on Mosley and Jamal wouldn't immediately make an impact on that.  But a year later, if we've become an attractive spot for FA's, AND have to start worrying about paying Sam, we'll wish we had that space available.  

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The notion of building a team around an ILB and SS are very predictable:  It's not smart. 

I'll take the devil we don't know over the one we do.  

Trading away your best proven NFL players that you draft for what if draft picks is asinine. 

Theres a reason this team has had little or no success in 51 years and Jamal Adams isn't one of the reasons. 

 

[bla bla bla]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Missing out on the picks for Jamal would certainly prevent us from acquiring other players.  

Agreed, and I'm not against it. I just think there is far more pressure to hit on those picks.

[Warfish]

10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

To keep calling him a box safety?  

As if you've come up with some kind of brilliant insult?
 

There are two types of Safety.

Free Safety (Coverage Safety) and Strong Safety (i.e. Box Safety).

Which is Adams?

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

There are two types of Safety.

Free Safety (Coverage Safety) and Strong Safety (i.e. Box Safety).

Which is Adams?

 

Linebacker.

[Beerfish]

11 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

To keep calling him a box safety?  

As if you've come up with some kind of brilliant insult?
 

 

From the Cimini article.  The very definition of a box safety.  He rushed the passer and he does not cover in man on man.  He can't intercept the ball even when getting FS snaps

"In fact, he rushed the passer on 93 plays, the second-highest total among defensive backs, according to NFL Next Gen Stats.

Jets defensive coordinator Gregg Williams tweaked Adams' role, using him more as a "box" safety than the previous coaching staff. He lined up in the box on 41% of his snaps, up from 39% in 2018. His free safety snaps went up, too -- from 45% to 42%. The big difference under Williams: Adams was used less in man-to-man coverage situations -- 14% in the slot/cornerback, down from 19%. "

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

 

From the Cimini article.  The very definition of a box safety.  He rushed the passer and he does not cover in man on man.  He can't intercept the ball even when getting FS snaps

"In fact, he rushed the passer on 93 plays, the second-highest total among defensive backs, according to NFL Next Gen Stats.

Jets defensive coordinator Gregg Williams tweaked Adams' role, using him more as a "box" safety than the previous coaching staff. He lined up in the box on 41% of his snaps, up from 39% in 2018. His free safety snaps went up, too -- from 45% to 42%. The big difference under Williams: Adams was used less in man-to-man coverage situations -- 14% in the slot/cornerback, down from 19%. "

 

Oh what does Gregg Williams know, sheesh.....

[RedBeardedSavage]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If you’re worried that your GM isn’t capable of drafting someone better than Bryan Thomas at 17, then you should just fire that GM.

Douglas hasn’t been the boss man before. 

I have no idea how well/lucky he’ll do. 

Bryan Thomas was not a bad player - but he was a premium position... and we did pick him over a safety that ended up in Baltimore? 

We all know Jamal isn’t #20; I’m just saying the “trade him now” contingent are being a bit optimistic that we’ll replace him with anything near as good - nor are we desperate for the cap savings. 

[Villain The Foe]

On 2/6/2020 at 6:07 PM, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

Most people would agree he's a great player (minus jets fans of course), and the idea that the Jets MUST trade him in order to rebuild was always stupid.

That being said if a team were to offer something extraordinary, you'd have to take it, cause as much as Jamal likes to think so, Brady or Donald he is not.

Wait, so Jamal thinks he's extraordinary but most say that he really isnt. 
If that's case, why would a team offer something extraordinary? What would be considered extraordinary? Maybe the Chiefs offer Mahomes? 

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Wait, so Jamal thinks he's extraordinary but most say that he really isnt. 
If that's case, why would a team offer something extraordinary? What would be considered extraordinary? Maybe the Chiefs offer Mahomes? 

Gil says he's the #12 clutch player in the NFL.  Doesn't get better than that!

[Villain The Foe]

47 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Gil says he's the #12 clutch player in the NFL.  Doesn't get better than that!

It should. He's atleast top 10. ?

[jetstream23]

If Mosley played great, Jenkins played great, Quinnen Williams played great, etc. I’d say trade Adams. But they didn’t. Adams was like 40% of the D last year, a good D. It’s hard to trade your one piece that actually stays on the field and produces. JMHO

[Sperm Edwards]

16 hours ago, Vader said:

Pay Jenkins. Trade Jamal. 
 

lolz

 

 

[Beerfish]

33 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

If Mosley played great, Jenkins played great, Quinnen Williams played great, etc. I’d say trade Adams. But they didn’t. Adams was like 40% of the D last year, a good D. It’s hard to trade your one piece that actually stays on the field and produces. JMHO

Jenkins 8 sacks

Jamal 6.5 sacks

Jenkins probably rushed the passer less than Adams.

Jenkins is lousy, Adams is top 15 player in the league....because he is a good pass rusher.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

It should. He's atleast top 10. ?

Don't sell him short, he may posses the most clutchiest clutch this side of Clutchville.  Certainly this side of Clutchenberg.

[Daddy Wang Doodle]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Wait, so Jamal thinks he's extraordinary but most say that he really isnt. 
If that's case, why would a team offer something extraordinary? What would be considered extraordinary? Maybe the Chiefs offer Mahomes? 

I'm not sure if this was a veiled shot at me, but I'll respond as if it wasn't totally tongue in cheek. 

An extraordinary offer to me would be two 1's. I'd take that and run

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Douglas hasn’t been the boss man before. 

I have no idea how well/lucky he’ll do. 

Bryan Thomas was not a bad player - but he was a premium position... and we did pick him over a safety that ended up in Baltimore? 

We all know Jamal isn’t #20; I’m just saying the “trade him now” contingent are being a bit optimistic that we’ll replace him with anything near as good - nor are we desperate for the cap savings. 

I just think Bryan Thomas is an unfair worst-case in this argument: he was drafted by a truly awful GM based on his athletic testing despite coming from a small school and having limited production—Bradway effectively repeating the Dewayne Robertson mistake. The players you see hovering around the Cowboys’ #17 pick in the mock drafts right now are guys like Tee Higgins, Andrew Thomas, Gross-Matos, etc. It appears to be a pretty comfortable place in this draft, relatively speaking. And if you’re nervous about trading Adams for picks, you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that trading him leaves you the enormous amount of money he was set to demand this offseason, which the Jets could use to sign Amari Cooper, Jack Conklin, or Yannick Ngoukwe, each of whom would be pretty substantial upgrades for us at dire positions of need.
 

You’re choosing between Jamal Adams at $17 mil per for four years,

—or—-

the #17, the #70(?), and an extra $90 mil to hand out in free agency. You can make a lot of hay with that ammunition

[Vader]

48 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I just think Bryan Thomas is an unfair worst-case in this argument: he was drafted by a truly awful GM based on his athletic testing despite coming from a small school and having limited production—Bradway effectively repeating the Dewayne Robertson mistake. The players you see hovering around the Cowboys’ #17 pick in the mock drafts right now are guys like Tee Higgins, Andrew Thomas, Gross-Matos, etc. It appears to be a pretty comfortable place in this draft, relatively speaking. And if you’re nervous about trading Adams for picks, you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that trading him leaves you the enormous amount of money he was set to demand this offseason, which the Jets could use to sign Amari Cooper, Jack Conklin, or Yannick Ngoukwe, each of whom would be pretty substantial upgrades for us at dire positions of need.
 

You’re choosing between Jamal Adams at $17 mil per for four years,

—or—-

the #17, the #70(?), and an extra $90 mil to hand out in free agency. You can make a lot of hay with that ammunition

You can have a lot of hay or you can have a HOF player. 
 

That’s a tough one 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Vader said:

You can have a lot of hay or you can have a HOF player. 
 

That’s a tough one 

Explain what Jamal Adams has done in his career to merit HoF consideration 

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Explain what Jamal Adams has done in his career to merit HoF consideration 

Did you not hear about how clutch he is?

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I just think Bryan Thomas is an unfair worst-case in this argument: he was drafted by a truly awful GM based on his athletic testing despite coming from a small school and having limited production—Bradway effectively repeating the Dewayne Robertson mistake. The players you see hovering around the Cowboys’ #17 pick in the mock drafts right now are guys like Tee Higgins, Andrew Thomas, Gross-Matos, etc. It appears to be a pretty comfortable place in this draft, relatively speaking. And if you’re nervous about trading Adams for picks, you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that trading him leaves you the enormous amount of money he was set to demand this offseason, which the Jets could use to sign Amari Cooper, Jack Conklin, or Yannick Ngoukwe, each of whom would be pretty substantial upgrades for us at dire positions of need.
 

You’re choosing between Jamal Adams at $17 mil per for four years,

—or—-

the #17, the #70(?), and an extra $90 mil to hand out in free agency. You can make a lot of hay with that ammunition

I chose to pick a middle-of-the-road starter at a premium position, instead of picking either a bust or a lights-out starter. 

I don't know enough about the prospects yet this year to know if any of those players you mentioned are worth it. That said, we're early in the process and picking players in the NFL draft often feels like a blind lottery as opposed to a skill.

Jamal gets a lot of hate on this site. We all understand why - he's a loudmouth, he doesn't play a particularly important position, he was drafted very high, and, probably most importantly, we took him over Mahomes (and Lattimore for that matter). I get all of that.

But he's still a damn good player that's improved every year, and I think he's good for this organization; he can help develop a healthy culture. I hate the idea of trading him as he's entering his prime for a draft pick even if, in a vacuum, it's better not to allocate resources like that to a safety.

But that's in a vacuum. For some rosters in this league, I agree it would be a huge mistake to sign this guy for big money. But we're not one of them. We don't have a glut of young stars that we've got to re-sign.

Enunwa is done. Trumaine is out. We'll have money in free agency.

The best argument against re-signing Jamal is that it's never smart to allocate that type of money to that position. That's a good argument. But it also requires context. That's not the way NFL contracts work. He can get paid well for three years here and then we can move-on when the circumstances change, and we've become one of those rosters that has enough talent that we're no longer interested in paying Jamal his market value. 

 I think that's the best move and that's what I'm advocating for here. 

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Explain what Jamal Adams has done in his career to merit HoF consideration 

Explain your accomplishments in your life. 

Jamal Adams NFL All-Pro player.

@T0mShane most bounced checks at the bodega mini-mart and most returned empty redeemable .5 cent bottles and cans. 

[pdxgreen]

Can somebody photoshop Jamaal Adams hanging out with Darrelle Revis for me?

Hahahaha.... Ain't I a stinka!

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Explain what Jamal Adams has done in his career to merit HoF consideration 

Pro Bowl defensive MVP

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, Warfish said:

There are two types of Safety.

Free Safety (Coverage Safety) and Strong Safety (i.e. Box Safety).

Which is Adams?

There are not only two types of safeties.  Its not one of the other.  

A strong safety lines up on the strong side off the line, the side where the TE lines up. He can at time be up on the line because the TE is used to block at the OL often.  

There was an article here, a few back indicating how many times Adams lined up as a box safety and how many times out of the box.  Broke his usage down, how many different ways.

It should be required reading for all those who think they know about Ss and Adams in particular.  

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, Beerfish said:

 

From the Cimini article.  The very definition of a box safety.  He rushed the passer and he does not cover in man on man.  He can't intercept the ball even when getting FS snaps

"In fact, he rushed the passer on 93 plays, the second-highest total among defensive backs, according to NFL Next Gen Stats.

Jets defensive coordinator Gregg Williams tweaked Adams' role, using him more as a "box" safety than the previous coaching staff. He lined up in the box on 41% of his snaps, up from 39% in 2018. His free safety snaps went up, too -- from 45% to 42%. The big difference under Williams: Adams was used less in man-to-man coverage situations -- 14% in the slot/cornerback, down from 19%. "

Hes played more than one season.  Point is hes not incapable of playing one way or the other.  Hers proven that.  

I keep saying, its not insulting to point out where he plays, how hes used.  Its a testament to him that he can be used differently.  

As it is written, he played in the box more than before.  So, the logic then follows that's all he is?  

Think he may have played at the los more because of the LB position being injury riddled?
Nah

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Jenkins 8 sacks

Jamal 6.5 sacks

Jenkins probably rushed the passer less than Adams.

Jenkins is lousy, Adams is top 15 player in the league....because he is a good pass rusher.

No.

Because he's a better player.

A top 15 player.

No matter how many silly things you say to try and change that.  

Unless you're arguing he isn't.  Or that it only has been said this year?  After the 6.5 sacks and for that reason only.

Is that your point?  

[prime21]

Pro Bowl , 32nd ranked.....do people expect his trade value to be any higher than it is now? Trade him and let's fill the other holes of need that we have.

 

[joewilly12]

3 hours ago, prime21 said:

Pro Bowl , 32nd ranked.....do people expect his trade value to be any higher than it is now? Trade him and let's fill the other holes of need that we have.

 

Trade the best player on the D.........lmfao

[Villain The Foe]

14 hours ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

I'm not sure if this was a veiled shot at me, but I'll respond as if it wasn't totally tongue in cheek. 

It wasnt a veiled shot, just a clear quote to your statement.  

It also wasnt tongue in cheek, but trying to figure out your level of "extraordinary". Giving you an extraordinary example, "Trading Mahomes for Adams" would be quite extraordinary. You never gave an example of what you figured to be extraordinary, and that very well could be subjective and I simply didnt want to assume. 

Quote

An extraordinary offer to me would be two 1's. I'd take that and run

I would too. That would be pretty extraordinary. 

Thanks for giving an example of what you consider extraordinary. There are folks who would consider trading him for just a 1st, and though a 1st is quite tempting, the bottomline is that this franchise historically has displayed the uncanny ability to whiff on draft picks, so it would be rough for me to trade an All-Pro just to get an opportunity to draft another Quinnen Williams.

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

It wasnt a veiled shot, just a clear quote to your statement.  

It also wasnt tongue in cheek, but trying to figure out your level of "extraordinary". Giving you an extraordinary example, "Trading Mahomes for Adams" would be quite extraordinary. You never gave an example of what you figured to be extraordinary, and that very well could be subjective and I simply didnt want to assume. 

I would too. That would be pretty extraordinary. 

Thanks for giving an example of what you consider extraordinary. There are folks who would consider trading him for just a 1st, and though a 1st is quite tempting, the bottomline is that this franchise historically has displayed the uncanny ability to whiff on draft picks, so it would be rough for me to trade an All-Pro just to get an opportunity to draft another Quinnen Williams.

A first and a third is generous and realistic. Minkah Fitzpatrick is a better player who can actually play man to man and he went for what was going to be a late first before Roethlisberger went down 

[CTM]

41 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

A first and a third is generous and realistic. Minkah Fitzpatrick is a better player who can actually play man to man and he went for what was going to be a late first before Roethlisberger went down  

That's an interesting perspective considering he was traded after Roethlisberger went down.

Very dumb move by Steelers, rare for that org