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Will Jamal Adams get record-setting deal from Jets? It's complicated


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On 2/7/2020 at 4:57 PM, Eaton Beaver said:

To Douglas’ credit, he certainly knows Adams’ worth. Rumor is that while in talks with the Dallas Cowboys, Douglas was asking for Zack Martin before being rebuffed.

The Cowboys also know Adams’ worth as they were said to offer first and third-round picks in the 2020 NFL Draft, and returned with an offer of one first and two second-round picks.

The Jets were unmoved, allegedly looking for first-round picks in 2020 and 2021, in addition to a day two pick in one of those time frames.

With the new league set to begin, CBS has predicted that the Cowboys will try and make a run at Adams once again.

“Dallas will again try to spark a trade with the Jets once the new league year begins in March. The asking price may come down a bit due to Adams being disgruntled and entering the final year of his rookie deal in 2020, which lends to unlikely odds he’ll sign an extension with a team he feels betrayed by.”

 

Am I late to finding this out, or is this nonsense, that Douglas turned down a 1st rounder plus a pair of 2nd rounders for Adams in their stalled Oct negotiations? Please tell me this is bull***t and didn't actually happen.

The way I read the linked CBS article Jared Wright has it wrong. It wasn't that Dallas upped its offer to 1st & two 2nds; it's that the Jets lowered their initial asking price of [1st + 1st + 2nd] down to [1st + 2nd + 2nd]. Also they (allegedly) offered their 2020 1st plus a year-unknown day 3 pick, not a 2020 1st and a 2020 3rd rounder. I could be reading it wrong, though; it's late & well past my bedtime.

If Dallas somehow comes back with a 1st + 3rd offer this year - which I don't expect to happen, now that they get him for 1 less playoff/superbowl run under his rookie contract - holy hell what a gift. It's not really any lower value than the erroneously-listed offer Douglas allegedly turned down, since Dallas ended up unexpectedly finishing at 8-8. With Adams being perceived as their final puzzle piece in a weak division, Douglas surely expected that 1st round pick to be lower than 17th . 

I hate fully basing trade value via that outdated chart (that predates free agency ffs); but the truth is teams do use it at least as a starting point, though the drafts' strengths can change that a lot, particularly way up top. If (with Adams) Dallas won their division, and maybe won 1 playoff game - which had to be Douglas's concern if he did turn down the above offer - that'd be ~picks #27 (680), #59 (310) and their 2021 2nd (trade equiv of 2020 late 3rd, so ~140) = 1130. This year their 1st+3rd are #17 (950) and #82 (180) = 1130. It would be about the same as taking their 1st + two 2nds at the trade deadline, at least using that old JJ chart. And if they didn't win a playoff game, then I guess he's not that much of a game-changer, even on a roster already plenty stacked. 

Yeah I know he's a fan favorite and a top player at his position, but the state of this roster is why you don't burn a #6 overall pick on a safety (plus then keep going back to the well at the same position again & again; in our case: DT). To make that work we'd have to have been masters at picking studs at ultra-high dollar non-QB positions (LT, WR, EDGE, CB) later in the draft. We did draft those positions, but they were Chuma Edoga, Ardarius Stewart, Chad Hansen, Dylan Donohue, Jachai Polite, Jeremy Clark, Derrick Jones, Parry Nickerson, Bless Austin, and (by trading picks for) Rashard Robinson and Nate Hairston. Yecch. 

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Adams is going to squander whatever goodwill he has with fans as part of this. Looking forward to it frankly

Just happy for the press for @jason423.

Gonna make Revis look like a saint.

On 2/8/2020 at 9:56 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Jamal doesn't get paid this offseason, he WILL create trouble.  He's not playing on $3.5M (or $7M I've heard both figures mentioned).  

Whatevs. Hearsay and speculation entirely. 

That's my point.  If played right he has zero leverage other that a hissy fit where he doesn't get paid.  Its what we should have done with Revis and what I would do with every single player who ever threatened to holdout. 

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3 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Whatevs. Hearsay and speculation entirely. 

More like an educated guess based on the evidence available.  Jamal is the guy who compared himself to Brady and Aaron Donald in the media, after having texted Ryan Clark that he wanted to be a Cowboy just prior to the deadline.  Patently true statements.  Meanwhile pretty much no player in the NFL relentlessly self-promotes more than Jamal Adams.  

What do you have on the "He'll give us a team discount" or "He'll be OK not getting his new deal this year and playing on $3.5M" side of the argument going for you?

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27 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

More like an educated guess based on the evidence available.  Jamal is the guy who compared himself to Brady and Aaron Donald in the media, after having texted Ryan Clark that he wanted to be a Cowboy just prior to the deadline.  Patently true statements.  Meanwhile pretty much no player in the NFL relentlessly self-promotes more than Jamal Adams.  

What do you have on the "He'll give us a team discount" or "He'll be OK not getting his new deal this year and playing on $3.5M" side of the argument going for you?

Fair enough. 

As you know, I'm not a Jamal Adams fanboy, but I am 100% on the side that we should retain him if possible. I don't see everyone's fantasy of 2 firsts, or even a 1st and 3rd actually happening, but I don't discount anyone's thoughts on the matter either way. It's all valid. Imo everyone has factual stuff to support their side of the debate.  But sending him packing for chump change is not something I'd like to see happen. 

I don't see any home town discount coming. I just think it's a game of leverages. We have him for 4 more years when considering franchise tags. Sure he can make a stink if he chooses to do so, but we have a hefty bag of leverage sitting on the table as well.  I'm interested to see how it goes. It's one of the more interesting story lines from my point of view. 

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2 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Fair enough. 

As you know, I'm not a Jamal Adams fanboy, but I am 100% on the side that we should retain him if possible. I don't see everyone's fantasy of 2 firsts, or even a 1st and 3rd actually happening, but I don't discount anyone's thoughts on the matter either way. It's all valid. Imo everyone has factual stuff to support their side of the debate.  But sending him packing for chump change is not something I'd like to see happen. 

I don't see any home town discount coming. I just think it's a game of leverages. We have him for 4 more years when considering franchise tags. Sure he can make a stink if he chooses to do so, but we have a hefty bag of leverage sitting on the table as well.  I'm interested to see how it goes. It's one of the more interesting story lines from my point of view. 

 

But see, all he has to do is appeal to that idiot Chris Johnson.  Johnson isn't going to let Douglas take a hardline stance on Jamal in negotiations.  A long, drawn-out holdout is the exact opposite what CJ is going to want.  And as we know, he's an emotional meddler like his brother and it will get in the way of business decisions.  

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On 2/8/2020 at 9:56 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Jamal doesn't get paid this offseason, he WILL create trouble.  He's not playing on $3.5M (or $7M I've heard both figures mentioned).  

Might be JD angle, JA causes trouble, losses fan support makes it less likely weak hand johnson intervenes on JA behalf. And we end up playing a good player at a low importance position like the super star / burgeoning celebrity JA claims to be (and in some ways is manifesting)

I imagine a contract squabble would work nicelt for JA too, free press/ attention.

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1 minute ago, CTM said:

Might be JD angle, JA causes trouble, losses fan support makes it less likely weak hand johnson intervenes on JA behalf and we end up playing a good player at a low importance position like the super star / burgeoning celebrity JA claims to be (and in some ways is manifesting)

I imagine a contract squabble would work nicelt for JA too, free press/ attention.

 

This is the exact scenario I'm afraid of.  I wish the Johnson's would go the f**k away and allow an adult to make decisions.

Granted, we haven't had many adults around lately because the Johnsons themselves hired them.  

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2 minutes ago, CTM said:

Might be JD angle, JA causes trouble, losses fan support makes it less likely weak hand johnson intervenes on JA behalf. And we end up playing a good player at a low importance position like the super star / burgeoning celebrity JA claims to be (and in some ways is manifesting)

I imagine a contract squabble would work nicelt for JA too, free press/ attention.

Gonna be interesting to see how much cache Douglas actually has. I’m not overly optimistic.

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

This is the exact scenario I'm afraid of.  I wish the Johnson's would go the f**k away and allow an adult to make decisions.

Granted, we haven't had many adults around lately because the Johnsons themselves hired them.  

I work for people like the Johnsons, not billionaire children but 100's of millionaire children. Much of it squandered because despite no practical work experiance they would buy up businesses and think they were uniquely qualified to run them. They believed thier wealth embued them intelligence and wisdom that the managemeny team of said companies experiance just couldnt compete with. If management said no and here's why:. It was ignored as being defensive / territorial / not open to change and/or not forward looking.

Luckily they were removed from the portion of thier portfolio I work for otherwise we'd be out of business as well. 

Rich kids with 0 actual accomplishments are the worst.

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1 minute ago, CTM said:

I work for people like the Johnsons, not billionaire children but 100's of millionaire children. Much of it squandered because despite no practical work experiance they would buy up businesses and think they were uniquely qualified to run them. They believed thier wealth embued them intelligence and wisdom that the managemeny team of said companies experiance just couldnt compete with. If management said no and here's why:. It was ignored as being defensive / territorial / not open to change and/or not forward looking.

Luckily they were removed from the portion of thier portfolio I work for otherwise we'd be out of business as well. 

Rich kids with 0 actual accomplishments are the worst.

 

Yep.  Born on Third Base and act like you hit a Triple.  Pathetic.

Pisses me off considering how hard it was for me to get to Second Base.  Sexually.  

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9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

But see, all he has to do is appeal to that idiot Chris Johnson.  Johnson isn't going to let Douglas take a hardline stance on Jamal in negotiations.  A long, drawn-out holdout is the exact opposite what CJ is going to want.  And as we know, he's an emotional meddler like his brother and it will get in the way of business decisions.  

Again this is just your predictive thinking. Another layer of conjecture. While we have historical data to refer to, we have none with JD. 

I have no idea what amount of involvement CJ will have if any.  Sure we can think that, but it's also just as possible that JD had that discussion of control in the negotiations. Remember, the contract took a lot longer than many here would have liked it to and he got 6 years at higher than standard first time GM money. He knows exactly what the problem with the NY Jets has been in the past and I'd bet he carved that into the deal. 

JD was about to be one of the most sought after GM's in the league. Do you really think he signed on to be a glorified errand boy for CJ or even Gase like I've seen? "sure. I'll sign on to have no control and defer to an owner that has a monumental losing record."  I'm not so sure man. 

It's easy to say this stuff at the moment because we have nothing to go on. We can make stories all we want, but we're just going to have to wait and see. The one thing I can say is that we are going to learn quite a bit about or GM this offseason. That's for sure. 

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8 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Gonna be interesting to see how much cache Douglas actually has. I’m not overly optimistic.

I dont believe he has it today l, but there are many ways to skin a cat as the saying goes. If I'm him and dont want to pay JA 18M, I do what I can to trigger him into eroding away fan support, which will help immensly with the weiner bros

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yep.  Born on Third Base and act like you hit a Triple.  Pathetic.

Pisses me off considering how hard it was for me to get to Second Base.  Sexually.  

You'll get there one day little buddy.

And on the first one, I think that statement gets used very loosely these days but appropriate with people like the Johnsons 

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Just now, GREENBEAN said:

Again this is just your predictive thinking. Another layer of conjecture. While we have historical data to refer to, we have none with JD. 

I have no idea what amount of involvement CJ will have if any.  Sure we can think that, but it's also just as possible that JD had that discussion of control in the negotiations. Remember, the contract took a lot longer than many here would have liked it to and he got 6 years at higher than standard first time GM money. He knows exactly what the problem with the NY Jets has been in the past and I'd bet he carved that into the deal. 

JD was about to be one of the most sought after GM's in the league. Do you really think he signed on to be a glorified errand boy for CJ or even Gase like I've seen? "sure. I'll sign on to have no control and defer to an owner that has a monumental losing record."  I'm not so sure man. 

It's easy to say this stuff at the moment because we have nothing to go on. We can make stories all we want, but we're just going to have to wait and see. The one thing I can say is that we are going to learn quite a bit about or GM this offseason. That's for sure. 

 

You're right that we don't know much about JD.  But we DO know how the Johnson's are. 

At the deadline, Jamal went to CJ to appeal to him (for whatever reason).  Why do you think he felt comfortable doing that?  Perhaps because CJ is spineless and might just crater to whatever Jamal's demands are?

We also know that, when asked about the organizational structure, CJ stated that nothing had changed.  So, the structure is still the HC and GM reporting separately and directly to the Owner.  A structure that simply does not work when your Owner is clueless.  

JD might not have known what he was getting into working under CJ.  Hell, Gase had only just arrived.  But he knew enough to think he could manipulate CJ into hiring JD, so that's something.

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6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You're right that we don't know much about JD.  But we DO know how the Johnson's are. 

At the deadline, Jamal went to CJ to appeal to him (for whatever reason).  Why do you think he felt comfortable doing that?  Perhaps because CJ is spineless and might just crater to whatever Jamal's demands are?

We also know that, when asked about the organizational structure, CJ stated that nothing had changed.  So, the structure is still the HC and GM reporting separately and directly to the Owner.  A structure that simply does not work when your Owner is clueless.  

JD might not have known what he was getting into working under CJ.  Hell, Gase had only just arrived.  But he knew enough to think he could manipulate CJ into hiring JD, so that's something.

Right. I don't debate the issues we've had with ownership these last 20 years with the Johnson's. I don't disagree with you there.  The only difference is I'm less willing to tack a behavioral pattern onto CJ than some others like yourself. It's not necessarily wrong but there is no real proof of anything other than CJ admitting that he doesn't really have it all together. 

Just look at his comments after firing Maccadoodles.  When asked why he didn't fire him with Bowles he said something like "I couldn't handle it all at once." I'm paraphrasing of course, but it went something like that. I don't see CJ in the same way as I see Woody. In the few years CJ has been in charge, we've seen a coach fired, him leading the coaching search, something woody never did, Firing the GM and leading the GM search. Of course Gase had a heavy hand in the latter portion no matter what he says, but Woody never did anything of the sort. So lumping CJ into the same pile of behavioral traits as woody is hard to do imo.  

CJ retaining the same reporting structure looks more like someone keeping something going that he's comfortable with for the time being than him being an oligarch. He doesn't know what he's doing and probably just needs to see JD in action before he leaves the team to him.  It's gonna be really fun if Gase is fired for sucking and the JD hiring the new coach. That will most likely be the end of CJ's dumb a$$ reporting structure. 

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Just now, joewilly12 said:
 
PFF
 
 

Is there anything Jamal Adams can't do?

View image on Twitter

Having a SS be at the LOS the vast majority of the time and having him as your top pass rusher is not a good thing.

Is there anything he can't do?  Cover very often and very rarely man on man where he gets cooked and he can't create turnovers near the level of other safeties.  And for all his all world all pro play the team he is playing on has not made the playoffs despite him 'dominating' the league.

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Having a SS be at the LOS the vast majority of the time and having him as your top pass rusher is not a good thing.

Is there anything he can't do?  Cover very often and very rarely man on man where he gets cooked and he can't create turnovers near the level of other safeties.  And for all his all world all pro play the team he is playing on has not made the playoffs despite him 'dominating' the league.

He plays and does what he's told to do. Why cant you realize that and admit he does it quite well. He's the best Safety in the NFL on the NY Jets imagine that we have a great player and you bash and hate him.  Get a clue. 

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Is there anything Jamal Adams can’t do??? [lists three exceedingly unimpressive pass rushing statistics]

He is the best player on the NY Jets and best Safety  in the NFL take off the hate glasses come to your senses and knock it off its getting old SAR I like old. 

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4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

He is the best player on the NY Jets and best Safety  in the NFL take off the hate glasses come to your senses and knock it off its getting old SAR I like old. 

Chuck Clark is the best safety in the nfl

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On 2/11/2020 at 10:48 PM, joewilly12 said:
 
PFF
 
 

Is there anything Jamal Adams can't do?

View image on Twitter

 

On 2/11/2020 at 10:51 PM, Beerfish said:

Having a SS be at the LOS the vast majority of the time and having him as your top pass rusher is not a good thing.

Is there anything he can't do?  Cover very often and very rarely man on man where he gets cooked and he can't create turnovers near the level of other safeties.  And for all his all world all pro play the team he is playing on has not made the playoffs despite him 'dominating' the league.

The usual half truth. 

Is Adams at the LOS because he "cant"cover or is it because the Jets have not pass rushers? 

Is Adams not "covering very often and rarely in man-on-man" because he's being exposed, or is it because he's doing what the coaches are telling him to do? 

Here's a quote by PFF. 

"Adams is No Liability in Coverage, Either"

Having a versatile safety is incredibly valuable for NFL defensive schemes and game planning. A blitzing safety with no coverage skills could only be used in and around the line of scrimmage, and his presence there would immediately tip-off the opponent that a blitz, not coverage, is the safety's only option. As a do-it-all safety in the Jets' defense, Jamal Adams has proven to be an asset, and he's no liability when matched up in pass coverage, either. This season, he's allowed a passer rating of just 80.7 on throws into his primary coverage, which is way below the league-wide average for safeties (93.6). Adams’ pass coverage skills make him a complete, every-down safety in a league where teams will be using three such players more often than not.

His knack for pass-rushing combined with his talent to defend both the run and the pass has made him the only defensive back in the NFL who has played at least 200 snaps yet earned a top-10 PFF grade in coverage (86.1, seventh among safeties), against the run (81.6, seventh), as a tackler (89.7, second) and as a pass-rusher (90.4, tied for first).

 

This last paragraph ^^^^^ literally supports Joe's question when he asked "Is there anything that Adams can't do"? 

His grades prove that he's doing more than what folks are reluctant to give him credit for. 

 

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