SOJF Slur - Kettle ......

[ZachEY]

37 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its not an 18-0 season, even an 8-0 ending, but 6-2 is 6-2 no matter how you try and twist it to fit your agenda.  The game by game breakdown is as pointless as thinking it was too little (?) too late.  They played better, Sam played better, their opponents are what they were.  Period.  

And lets not forget the last couple of years, this same schedule we never would have won 6 of 8.  It all means little other than to give some hope, nothing more.  But that's a start

No one is denying it was a 6-2 finish and you're welcome to have hope.  No one really cares what you, or anyone else, believes about the team.

Where agendas start coming in are when those who look only at 6-2, without context, and say this is a team on the rise and anyone who believes otherwise is a lesser fan, and/or has an agenda.  The game by game breakdown is a statement of facts, there's no twist at all.  Factually, one of the wins six wins came against a team resting it starters for the playoffs, one came against a team starting a practice squad QB, and three came against teams picking in the top 5 of the draft, and one of the losses was against a team picking #1 in the draft who was previously winless.

So, again, the only agenda here is saying that anyone who does not believe this means the Jets are clearly on the rise is a lesser fan who is not objective.

[Jetworks]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yep.  And given the heavy roster turnover that's about to happen this offseason, that 6-2 finish will mean next to nothing in terms of how we'll do in 2020.  

And before anyone says "But what about Sam?  Doesn't that carry over a bit?"  No, it doesn't.  Geno Smith finished the 2013 season with 3 excellent games in his final 4 contests.  It didn't mean a damn thing in 2014 when we went 4-12. 

Either Sam can play or he can't.  Year 3 he runs out of excuses if he sucks.  

I disagree about Darnold. I think, first and foremost, he can play, just needs to show consistency. Problem is, the latter has been a bit stagnated by 1) coaching changes, 2) his illness to start the year and 2a) the dearth of talent on the roster (apologies, James). So in my book, he gets a soft pass. 

[Jet Nut]

11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

No one is denying it was a 6-2 finish and you're welcome to have hope.  No one really cares what you, or anyone else, believes about the team.

Where agendas start coming in are when those who look only at 6-2, without context, and say this is a team on the rise and anyone who believes otherwise is a lesser fan, and/or has an agenda.  The game by game breakdown is a statement of facts, there's no twist at all.  Factually, one of the wins six wins came against a team resting it starters for the playoffs, one came against a team starting a practice squad QB, and three came against teams picking in the top 5 of the draft, and one of the losses was against a team picking #1 in the draft who was previously winless.

So, again, the only agenda here is saying that anyone who does not believe this means the Jets are clearly on the rise is a lesser fan who is not objective.

Exactly 6-2 is 6-2.  All the dividing it up and dicing it up doesn't change a thing.  And yes, no one cares what I, you or anyone thinks it means.  

The agenda comes in as we both said, when people use it to claim as proof of anything either way.  Agendas are when we dwell on the Steelers playing a practice squad and backup QB but we don't use that same rational when talking about the Falk games.  Or taking into account how hard it just may have been to have expectations when your QB was playing with mono

Don't need 6-2 or any record to feel that they're on the rise given how dire it was the previous 2 seasons under Bowles.  

[EM31]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

99% of Jets fans in #1 believe themselves to be part of #3, and ever has it been that way.

The problem is that if you are in group #1 (blind homers) then group #3 (the realists) looks an awful lot like group #2 (SOJFs).

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, Jetworks said:

I disagree about Darnold. I think, first and foremost, he can play, just needs to show consistency. Problem is, the latter has been a bit stagnated by 1) coaching changes, 2) his illness to start the year and 2a) the dearth of talent on the roster (apologies, James). So in my book, he gets a soft pass. 

 

Yes but none of that suggests a strong finish in 2019 makes it any more likely he's about to have a monster 2020 season.  The strong finish doesn't mean all that much to me.  If he has a breakout season in 2020, its because he's a good QB (and because we fixed/improved the OL), not because of "momentum".  

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yes but none of that suggests a strong finish in 2019 makes it any more likely he's about to have a monster 2020 season.  The strong finish doesn't mean all that much to me.  If he has a breakout season in 2020, its because he's a good QB (and because we fixed/improved the OL), not because of "momentum".  

Agree. 

It will be through a combination of growth on his part and fixes to the rest of what has been holding back this offense like an anvil.

All the momentum is to me is that it keeps the dream alive

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, Jetworks said:

I disagree about Darnold. I think, first and foremost, he can play, just needs to show consistency. Problem is, the latter has been a bit stagnated by 1) coaching changes, 2) his illness to start the year and 2a) the dearth of talent on the roster (apologies, James). So in my book, he gets a soft pass. 

The issue is, consistency is what makes players good.  I use this exaggeration of an example at different times, but to make the point, Steph Curry and I can make the same 3-point shot.  That he can do it consistently is what makes him a super star, and me a dope talking to you on the internet about Sam Darnold.  No denying Darnold has the tools to be an NFL QB.  Hell, Mark Sanchez certainly did - perhaps even more so.  But, the ability to do positive things consistently is what separates the guys who fizzle out of the league from the stars.  No indication yet that Darnold can.

[pdxgreen]

Any time someone posts a thread like this... I am sure that SAR I gets a boner.

[SAR I]

8 hours ago, TeddEY said:

That they are ascending, and things are looking positive, is your narrative, based on a fairly limited examination of the circumstances.  Let's take a deeper dive, shall we?

Yes, let's.

8 hours ago, TeddEY said:

You constantly speak about 6-2 to finish the season.  From a Mark Sanchez stan, this is certainly understandable, as one half is seen as justification for positive thinking about a whole.  Still, the football season is 16 games, and the Jets started their season 1-7, against the tougher portion of the schedule, and then finished 6-2 against the easier portion.  Let's look at that 6-2 with a little more critical eye:

I appreciate your game-by-game analysis.  My responses:

1.  All the games mentioned in the 6-2 finish featured the Jets in a terrible roster position due to illness and injury and games against teams whose rosters were stronger than ours on the days we played them.  Regardless of record, the Jets were the worst team in the league when we played the Bengals and Dolphins.  So to say you are disappointed in some losses and expected some wins is quite a bit of revisionist history.  I don't remember you predicting anything like that stretch after 1-7.  Most had expectations of 2-6, not 6-2.

2.  The Patriots and Bills made the playoffs with the same schedule, and the Ravens schedule was even easier.  I didn't hear any chatter about those three AFC teams "undeserving" of a playoff berth.  The Bills have only beaten 1 decent team in the last 2 years-  the Titans, twice.  The Jets aren't far behind the teams we're competing with for the playoffs next year.  If you look at all the injured players coming back, we surely have the most upside.

3.  The Jets 2020 schedule features just as many weak teams, most of them at home-  Dolphins, Dolphins, Bills, Bills, Broncos, Raiders, Cardinals, Browns, Chargers, Rams, Colts.  That's 11 games that one can easily argue the Jets should be able to win based on this year's beat-up team alone; imagine what could happen next year when totally healthy.

8 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Regarding the record, you've also credited Adam Gase as 'not losing the team.'  While I'm no fan of billboards or airplanes, I'm not sure, 'not losing the team' is the high water mark we ought to be looking for as Jets fans.  What if I also suggested that perhaps the performance towards the latter end of the season was because, with so many injuries, the majority of the young players and non-name players out there were still on their first contract or smaller contracts, and had something personal to play for?  That seems pretty plausible too.

As Jets fans, we've seen this team fall to pieces after falling out of contention, its expected at this point.  Combine that with the amount of new guys on the team, the pricey free agents on the team, the airplanes, the banners, the NYDN hit pieces, it's a major accomplishment for Gase that he was able to keep the team together and rally them to many victories.  Half the battle as an NFL head coach is culture and motivation; Gase has got that down.  We're good there.

8 hours ago, TeddEY said:

You're also basing your position on the notion that Sam Darnold is a top QB (at least in the AFC).  This is nice to believe, but 'objective reality' is the stats.  The stats have Darnold as a bottom 5 NFL QB.  Do I think he's better than that?  Of course.  Do I think that the offensive line is holding him back?  Of course.  But, just how much that is is up to everyone's imagination, and nothing more.

Stop with the full-season stats.  They're meaningless.  Mono ruined Darnold that first half not just physically, but in learning the new system, bonding with ever-changing receivers, no running game, etc.  We should all be able to agree that the last 8 games are far more indicative of the Gase/Darnold future than the first 8 games.  Sam essentially missed 4 of them.  Then he rushed back for a bad trip to Florida and destruction against the Patriots.  The last 8 games, Sam looked comfortable, Gase made good adjustments, and 15 TD's, 4 INT's, 93.3 QBR is very solid, considering what happened earlier in the year.

8 hours ago, TeddEY said:

So, more realistically, the Jets had a nice finish to the season, against the dregs of the league, and it doesn't mean all that much going forwards.  What matters is, can Darnold be better than his numbers indicate?  Can Joe Douglas fix/fill the gaping holes at OL, WR, CB, and OLB.  Next years schedule looks much more difficult.  I think you're in for a big surprise if you think the performance that got us 6-2 is going to be good enough when we travel to LA x2, KC, and Seattle, just to name a few.

I see it differently.  I saw Sam and Adam working well together, learning the system, getting on the same page with the worst OL and rushing attack in the league.  Clearly we will be better next season.  Fully rebuilt OL?  No, but better than this year, at least to the league average, that's a realistic expectation.  The ST's will be fixed with a competent kicker.  The D looks really good and will only improve with all the hurt guys we have coming back.  The road schedule is tricky, the home schedule is easier than this year's. 

The good things we saw in the last 8 games far outweigh the bad things we saw in the first 8 games.  Momentum does matter year-over-year.  Not a single coach is leaving.  Not a single player is backstabbing in the press.  Players coming into camp will feel comfortable and a proud of the finish.  Free agents will see an enthusiastic Florham Park culture based on actual results, not some Pollyanna vision.  The corner has been turned.  It's Joe D's turn to do his job.  I'm confident he will.

SAR I

[EM31]

11 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Any time someone posts a thread like this... I am sure that SAR I gets a boner.

And why not? It is a perfect opportunity to chastise his fellow Jets fans.

[SAR I]

8 hours ago, Jetworks said:

Really hard to argue with this well-thought out-post. That won't stop some of you, for course, but I just felt the need to point it out. 

The "well thought out post" was just an elaborate way of doing the two things that SOJF's do far too often since the season ended:

1.  Use 16 game stats when they know we weren't a real team for the first 8.  Luke Falk.  Kare Vedvik and Friends. 

2.  Run the "weak schedule" playbook when on the Sunday's we played those opponents the opponents had the better rosters.  Fitzpatrick and Dalton were better than Darnold and our D on those days.  Their DL's and OL's were better than ours on those days. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  And given the heavy roster turnover that's about to happen this offseason, that 6-2 finish will mean next to nothing in terms of how we'll do in 2020.  

Who says the roster turnover needs to be that heavy when so many of the backups and third-stringers played so well the back half of the season?  Of course we need some starters at OL, WR, K, DB, and the like.  But there will be far more players sticking than one might have thought at the start of the season. 

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And before anyone says "But what about Sam?  Doesn't that carry over a bit?"  No, it doesn't.  Geno Smith finished the 2013 season with 3 excellent games in his final 4 contests.  It didn't mean a damn thing in 2014 when we went 4-12. 

Geno Smith?  LOL.  Good NFL quarterbacks get better every year when they're young and Sam is only 22.  The benefit of having the youngest QB to ever start an NFL game is that the first two seasons are developmental.  Better to watch him learn in the big leagues than in college.  He's just about to start his NFL career.  He's a baby.  In a good way.  Lots of ceiling.  Untapped, considering the coaching changes, the playbook changes, and the revolving door of receiving targets.

SAR I

[pdxgreen]

39 minutes ago, EM31 said:

And why not? It is a perfect opportunity to chastise his fellow Jets fans.

I imagine the fat guy who once challenged him in the Meadowlands parking lot wearing jorts, rocking a mullet and a '91 Scorpion Crazy World Tour t-shirt profoundly affected his psyche.

[jgb]

6 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

 

The guy in black trunks actually won that fight if you account for his dad bod, hair in his eyes, and weak chin. Not his fault. Only SOJFs see this as a loss.

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Exactly 6-2 is 6-2.  All the dividing it up and dicing it up doesn't change a thing.  And yes, no one cares what I, you or anyone thinks it means.  

The agenda comes in as we both said, when people use it to claim as proof of anything either way.  Agendas are when we dwell on the Steelers playing a practice squad and backup QB but we don't use that same rational when talking about the Falk games.  Or taking into account how hard it just may have been to have expectations when your QB was playing with mono

Don't need 6-2 or any record to feel that they're on the rise given how dire it was the previous 2 seasons under Bowles.  

Very well said. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes but none of that suggests a strong finish in 2019 makes it any more likely he's about to have a monster 2020 season.  The strong finish doesn't mean all that much to me.  If he has a breakout season in 2020, its because he's a good QB (and because we fixed/improved the OL), not because of "momentum".  

Don’t be silly, SOJF.

Having the same playbook for the first time since USC is certainly going to help him. More time advancing what he has already learned instead of memorizing hundreds new of plays from a new coach.

The rapport he has established with Crowder and Griffin certainly sticks.  Certainly Anderson if he returns.  He’s 22. It’s not like teaching an old dog new tricks. He’s still in the developmental stage. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, EM31 said:

And why not? It is a perfect opportunity to chastise his fellow Jets fans.

After 9 years of whining it’s time for it to stop.  The last 8 games are encouraging.  We have a franchise quarterback.  The coach has balls.  The division is weakening.  We should all be excited.  

SAR I

[jgb]

6 hours ago, SAR I said:

After 9 years of whining it’s time for it to stop.  The last 8 games are encouraging.  We have a franchise quarterback.  The coach has balls.  The division is weakening.  We should all be excited.  

SAR I

The only thing worse than whining about the Jets is whining about whining about the Jets.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

People who say that you are a SOJF for calling someone a SOJF is a SOJF.

[SAR I]

21 minutes ago, jgb said:

The only thing worse than whining about the Jets is whining about people whining about the Jets.

Well, now you're questioning the entire purpose of the Slur-Kettle and I don't know what to do with that.

SAR I

[CTM]

25 minutes ago, jgb said:

The only thing worse than whining about the Jets is whining about people whining about the Jets.

Particularly when said whiner spent 38 of the past 42 years whining about the Jets and has adorned his profile as a testament to his whining. The Sartoon everyone!

 

[jgb]

5 hours ago, SAR I said:

Well, now you're questioning the entire purpose of the Slur-Kettle and I don't know what to do with that.

SAR I

You root for the team you get, not the one you want. For as long as the Jets are the “SOJs,” we are by definition “SOJFs.” Everyone else is rooting for a team that only exists in their minds.

[jgb]

6 hours ago, CTM said:

Particularly when said whiner spent 38 of the past 42 years whining about the Jets and has adorned his profile as a testament to his whining. The Sartoon everyone!

 

It’s a fascinating case study into the homer mind that the same tenacity that fueled him to aggressively malign those who didn’t agree the Jets would make the playoffs last year, empowers him to completely forget that failed prediction and switch instantly to attacking anyone who doesn’t think the Jets are on the road to greatness next year. Even a psychopath would feign a mea culpa after months of attacking the fandom and sincerity of those who disagreed with his prediction that later easily failed. This behavior is robotic. His programming isn’t going to change. I just treat it as entertainment now and when I’m done playing with it I take out its batteries until I’m ready to be entertained again.

[jgb]

6 hours ago, SAR I said:

After 9 years of whining it’s time for it to stop.  The last 8 games are encouraging.  We have a franchise quarterback.  The coach has balls.  The division is weakening.  We should all be excited.  

SAR I

“Beep, beep.”

-Homerbot

[CTM]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

It’s a fascinating case study into the homer mind that the same tenacity that fueled him to aggressively malign those who didn’t agree the Jets would make the playoffs last year, empowers him to completely forget that failed prediction and switch instantly to attacking anyone who doesn’t think the Jets are on the road to greatness next year. Even a psychopath would feign a mea culpa after months of attacking the fandom and sincerity of those who disagreed with his prediction that later easily failed. This behavior is robotic. His programming isn’t going to change. I just treat it as entertainment now and when I’m done playing with it I take out its batteries until I’m ready to be entertained again.

Yep, a sartoon!

I have to admit I'm impressed how hes able to get people to engage him in serious debate.

[jgb]

41 minutes ago, CTM said:

Yep, a sartoon!

I have to admit I'm impressed how hes able to get people to engage him in serious debate.

Doubt he realizes that he is not the intended audience when we reply to him.

PS we should have a poll whether people prefer "sartoon" or "homerbot"  

[CTM]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Doubt he realizes that he is not the intended audience when we reply to him.

PS we should have a poll whether people prefer "sartoon" or "homerbot"  

Well op called him a projecting sojf , which is another option. 

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

You root for the team you get, not the one you want. For as long as the Jets are the “SOJs,” we are by definition “SOJFs.” Everyone else is rooting for a team that only exists in their minds.

The team we got just finished 6-2.  Not SOJetsie at all.

The quarterback we got just finished 15/4/93.3.  Not SOJetsie at all.

The head coach just engineered the biggest turnaround in team history with a dreadfully injured and depleted roster.  Not SOJetsie at all

The GM is going to have a strong offseason not only with new free agents and draft picks but with the 18 position players and starters who missed the better part of last season and return at no charge.

This is a great time to be a Jets fan.  You like to be miserable.  Keep it to yourself.

SAR I

[Warfish]

18 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

The game by game breakdown is pointless.

All the dividing it up and dicing it up doesn't change a thing.

Not a fan of analysis, eh?

@TeddEY deserves an award for his posts in this thread IMO. Bravo mate.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The team we got just finished 6-2.  Not SOJetsie at all.

The quarterback we got just finished 15/4/93.3.  Not SOJetsie at all.

The head coach just engineered the biggest turnaround in team history with a dreadfully injured and depleted roster.  Not SOJetsie at all

The GM is going to have a strong offseason not only with new free agents and draft picks but with the 18 position players and starters who missed the better part of last season and return at no charge.

This is a great time to be a Jets fan.  You like to be miserable.  Keep it to yourself.

SAR I

Again, we can be hopeful about the finish without being convinced of it.

@IT_Team We need to get this unit over to diagnostics. It’s malfunctioning again. 

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

It’s a fascinating case study into the homer mind that the same tenacity that fueled him to aggressively malign those who didn’t agree the Jets would make the playoffs last year, empowers him to completely forget that failed prediction and switch instantly to attacking anyone who doesn’t think the Jets are on the road to greatness next year. Even a psychopath would feign a mea culpa after months of attacking the fandom and sincerity of those who disagreed with his prediction that later easily failed. 

Are you kidding?  I predicted 11-5 and that's exactly what the Jets would have been without the retirements, illnesses, and injuries.

Bills
Browns
Bengals
Dolphins

We win those games if the August Jets were on the field in September and November.  This is the SOJF problem; they can't see the forest through the trees. 

SAR I

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Are you kidding?  I predicted 11-5 and that's exactly what the Jets would have been without the retirements, illnesses, and injuries.

Bills
Browns
Bengals
Dolphins

We win those games if the August Jets were on the field in September and November.  This is the SOJF problem; they can't see the forest through the trees. 

SAR I

Which is why you’re correct when someone who predicted 7 wins is wrong, right?

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Which is why you’re correct when someone who predicted 7 wins is wrong, right?

You're being trolled.

[jgb]

Just now, Warfish said:

You're being trolled.

Entertained actually

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Not a fan of analysis, eh?

TeddEY deserves an award for his posts in this thread IMO. 

Analysis is fine.  But all that analysis said is that the Jets played some lesser teams.  That analysis doesn't take into account that the Jets were worse than all the teams being analyzed.  That's what SOJF's do.  Twist everything into a pretzel that says "Jets Suck" instead of giving them credit for some nice accomplishments.  They can't sleep well at night if the Jets are successful.  Too scary a thought.

The Jets finished 6-2 beating the caliber of teams that the Patriots, Bills, and Ravens also beat enroute to their 'respectable' playoff seasons.  I don't hear anyone claiming that Lamar Jackson, who opened the season with a Jets-like 6-2 with a Darnold-like 12 Passing TD's and 5 INT's, is somehow lesser because the schedule was easy.  Ravens had 11 cake games.  The Jets had 0 because the Jets were not better than any team they faced this year. 

SAR I