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David Harris

Are there ANY defensive guys you’d be ok with at 11?

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Personally I’d call for JD’s head immediately.  
 

Obviously most would be ok with Chase Young if he Tunsil’d down to us. But we can exclude him as that won’t happen.

Okudah is the only other one I’d be alright with. I’ve seen him fall to us in 2% of mocks. Including him is there any defender that you’d be ok with at 11 because you think that highly of him?
 

 

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yes, i think Isaiah Simmons would be perfect in our defense. i have seen a few scenarios where he does fall. Id be happier with him than a WR in the first round. 

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Lawrence Taylor could be there and it would be the wrong move.

Ok maybe not, but seriously enough is enough. No Defensive player in this draft is worth the continued total ignoring of the OL and WR positions.

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33 minutes ago, Agoldstein54 said:

yes, i think Isaiah Simmons would be perfect in our defense. i have seen a few scenarios where he does fall. Id be happier with him than a WR in the first round. 

Stop it 

 

Okudah or Young. That’s it.

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No. Not one defensive player should be in consideration. We have to stop the insanity.

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16 minutes ago, RobR said:

No. Not one defensive player should be in consideration. We have to stop the insanity.

IMO this kind of mindset is insane. So you are telling me if we loaded up on the O-line in FA but had a hole at Pass rusher and/or CB and drafted Offense with every single one of our draft picks OTHER than Rd. 1 you would think getting Young or Okudah at 11 would be 'insanity'?? 

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14 minutes ago, PepPep said:

IMO this kind of mindset is insane. So you are telling me if we loaded up on the O-line in FA but had a hole at Pass rusher and/or CB and drafted Offense with every single one of our draft picks OTHER than Rd. 1 you would think getting Young or Okudah at 11 would be 'insanity'?? 

If you watched the Jets for the last decade and are OK with drafting a defensive player with our first round pick then yes....You would be insane.

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I'm not suggesting picking up another defensive lineman, but i think you are arguing that picking any defensive player would be a redundancy, but this player is unique and we have noone like him on our team. seriously simmons plays all over the field and doesn't have to come off the field in passing situations. hes like adding a edge, corner and a saftey all in one. he will be the next khalil mack.  in todays nfl, where sub package tend to be the base defense, that is a HUGE advantage against balanced teams who can mix their run and pass well. he could have a khalil mack Impact almost Immediately

 I'm not going to force picking an offensive player if the ratings aren't close, or if a comparable player could be gotten in a lower round. (i.e the depth at the receiver and interior offensive line, even tackle in the second rounds)  i think several offensive lineman and receivers should be taken, but I'm not locked into taking them in any particular order.

If you actually have watched the jets the last ten years, Just a couple of years ago we had one of the better receiving groups in the league, which was built purely through free agency and trades. that's not the best way to build teams, but  not getting the best value oout of each pick is how you have to pay for 18 million a year for an Ngoqkwe who can't stop the run, or pass defend.

you want to build a championship team? That doesn't happen in one year. Fixing the offensive line 100 percent most likely doesn't happen in one year. picking the best player for your scheme based upon the way the board falls is the best way to go, not forcing because you have a hole at another position. 

if you run any of the draft simulators, a lot of the times all of the top lineman are gone by our pick. That leave either trade down or take the best player. If you continue to run the simulator, every single time there are a chunk of 5 to 10 quality receivers and several top interior lineman that sit there until the 3rd to 5th rounds. the draft dictates that the value is to wait on picking a receiver and interior lineman until after the first round. The depth is not on defense, the only way to get a true game changer may be with the first pick. later in the draft. It is interior offensive lineman and receivers. 

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Young, Okudah, maybe Simmons but Isaiah Simmons would feel 100% like a Macc pick. “We just had to take him as he was far and away the best player available.”

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Yeah I’d pass on Simmons for any of the OT’s or wideouts but i am intrigued by Simmons so is appreciate #agoldstein54’s write up and want to read more up on him. He seems very dynamic and has a lot of buzz.  But he’s not an elite pure corner or pass rusher so I’d pass 

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7 hours ago, David Harris said:

Personally I’d call for JD’s head immediately.

this. my rxn was phuk to the no

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5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Young is the ONLY defensive player I would take at 11.  

I was about to say, Young but there is less than a 0% chance he's there.

Therefore, no, there isnt a single defensive player that I'd be ok with the Jets taking...

....in the first 3 rounds.

You want to throw some picks at D, fine.  Just take 4 players on offense first. 

Personally, I'm taking offense all the way to the 4th round. 

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Just now, JiF said:

I was about to say, Young but there is less than a 0% chance he's there.

Therefore, no, there isnt a single defensive player that I'd be ok with the Jets taking...

....in the first 3 rounds.

You want to throw some picks at D, fine.  Just take 4 players on offense first. 

Personally, I'm taking offense all the way to the 4th round. 

Agreed.  Plus this isn’t really a great defensive draft.  We have been saying for a while now that this draft’s depth and value is on the offensive side of the ball, which is perfect for the Jets.  You go offense with first 4 picks and not reach on any of those players.  This Edge and CB class is underwhelming.  

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10 hours ago, Agoldstein54 said:

I'm not suggesting picking up another defensive lineman, but i think you are arguing that picking any defensive player would be a redundancy, but this player is unique and we have noone like him on our team. seriously simmons plays all over the field and doesn't have to come off the field in passing situations. hes like adding a edge, corner and a saftey all in one. he will be the next khalil mack.  in todays nfl, where sub package tend to be the base defense, that is a HUGE advantage against balanced teams who can mix their run and pass well. he could have a khalil mack Impact almost Immediately

 I'm not going to force picking an offensive player if the ratings aren't close, or if a comparable player could be gotten in a lower round. (i.e the depth at the receiver and interior offensive line, even tackle in the second rounds)  i think several offensive lineman and receivers should be taken, but I'm not locked into taking them in any particular order.

If you actually have watched the jets the last ten years, Just a couple of years ago we had one of the better receiving groups in the league, which was built purely through free agency and trades. that's not the best way to build teams, but  not getting the best value oout of each pick is how you have to pay for 18 million a year for an Ngoqkwe who can't stop the run, or pass defend.

you want to build a championship team? That doesn't happen in one year. Fixing the offensive line 100 percent most likely doesn't happen in one year. picking the best player for your scheme based upon the way the board falls is the best way to go, not forcing because you have a hole at another position. 

if you run any of the draft simulators, a lot of the times all of the top lineman are gone by our pick. That leave either trade down or take the best player. If you continue to run the simulator, every single time there are a chunk of 5 to 10 quality receivers and several top interior lineman that sit there until the 3rd to 5th rounds. the draft dictates that the value is to wait on picking a receiver and interior lineman until after the first round. The depth is not on defense, the only way to get a true game changer may be with the first pick. later in the draft. It is interior offensive lineman and receivers. 

If Simmons is there you hope that a team is willing to move up for him and you take the haul.

We have Jamal Adams who has the same skill set you’re describing. We don’t need a second Jamal Adams. If we can trade back instead of taking Simmons we can load up on skill guys and snag Terrell Burress in the 3/4 or Antoine Winfield Jr. In the 2/3 and be a better team than if we added a second Jamal Adams.

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I would 100 percent prefer to trade down in almost any scenario in the first round, but that's not always possible if teams behind you don't offer you enough value for your pick. In reality what I am talking about is a rare scenario, the scenario is that all of the top options for tackle are gone, and we are stuck at our pick, either we pick the best player available that fell or we force an offensive pick. I consider taking a receiver in the first round forcing the pick because there are so many good options that will be there with our second pick,3rd pick, 4th pick, maybe even 5th pick.

what works in this league? Being unique and going all in on playing a certain style of football. What is our style of football? Its a lot more similar to the 49ers than it is the chiefs. trying to go all in on offense is not going to over compensate enough to become the new chiefs. like i said I'm not saying we should neglect the offense, those picks will average out in the future over the course of time. But additionally we have neglected picking edge rushers for many years the same way as offensive lineman, i don't get how anyone could complain if we got someone who played that role. Maybe its not specifically an edge role, but having chess pieces on defense is something that other teams have to game plan around. Theres no reason we can't be the number 1 defense in the league next year.

If simmons fell, i view him as being able to be that edge linebacker in a 3-4, but also play slot corner in a sub package, also play weak side linebacker if we wanted to use the strength of our team our defensive line and run a 4-3. He would allow jamal adams to do what he is supposed to do, play saftey, not play as a defacto defensive lineman.  

I would even trade adams for the right price, sure he's a good player but id rather have several players a notch lower than him as a result of a trade that can help  than pay him years early when he hasn’t helped us win sh*t. and he's only a box saftey. His coverage numbers aren't horrible but he's no Ed Reed, he's a slightly better version of kam chanchellor

where do I differ from MAC? Well, if i have a defensive lineman like quinnen williams and a edge player like josh allen closely graded, I would prefer to go for the position of need over taking a position we already have filled. But, there are exceptions to that. There are certain positions you just don't  HAVE to draft in the first round. Wide receivers. Running Backs. Tight Ends. Guards. Two gap defensive lineman. Saftey. 

But there are some positions that you get more bang for your buck if you do draft in he first round. QBS, Left Tackles, Edge Players, Cornerbacks. 

Also, if you look at the money top tier players earn in Free Agency, the positions I believe need to be drafted higher, are the positions where players tend to break the bank more than others, and its a lot more valuable to get players like that on their cheap rookie deals, and be able to get more free agent player acquisitions on other positions ( get many at better rates than sign 1 guy on a chunk deal) where even the top guys at certain positions can't hit close to taking up big percentages of the cap alone

We could Sign Branden Sharif and BJ Penny (JUST AN EXAMPLE) for the cost of signing a dante fowler or nckowgwe in free agency. 

I see the line being fixed in stages. I think we resign beachum, and edoga will play right tackle. We will sign 2 or 3 guys to play in the middle, and supplement with draft picks to compete at spots or grow to play next year.

The receiver group is not as far off as people think. Even if enunwa gives us nothing, if we drafted one guy in the middle rounds and signed one mid tier veteran to go along with crowder, that would fit what gase wants to do. Gase is never going to go all in on one star player on offense and feed them the ball. He likes having options all over the place and spreading it out. I remember in Gases last season as head coach of the dolphins they drafted several young receivers and they were running around us in circles that same year while they beat us both games. 

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in the last 4 drafts, only 4 offensive tackles have been taken on or before pick 11. now all of a sudden theres 4 or 5 guys worth drafting that are all fits by pick 11? I don't buy it. Somoenes gonna get a bust, or force a pick for a guy that doesn't fit their team.

 

this is a copy from the Fanspeak Mocks Post. I think this reflects the value of the draft if this scenario did occur

A: The Isaiahs (Fanspeak-Steve Board)

1/11 - OLB Isaiah Simmons

2/48 - OT Isaiah Wilson

3/68 - WR Denzel Mims

3/79 - CB Noah Igbinoghene

4/117 - C Nick Harris

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I would be nothing short of enraged if we took friggin simmons.

so lets get this straight we are going to take guy without a position to come and in do what our over blown SS already does?

I would instantly put douglas in mccganan category of Gm if we did that.

If the top pass rusher (Young) or the top CB (Okudah) somehow fell I could live with  that but otherwise it has to be OT if one of the top ones are there or WR if not.

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Unless it’s Young or Okudah, no. I don’t even care if we signed 3 legit OL starters in free agency. I’d want OL or WR either way. 

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I do a couple quick mock drafts online daily using a couple sites with varying big boards and each draft seems like the talent and needs match up for the jets to go:

first round: OT

second: WR (E.G. Reagor; Aiyuk, Jefferson, etc)

Third 1: OL (Ruis, Muni, Bradberry, Peat, Prince, Young etc)

Third 2: WR- lots of names

 

 

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Thanks for posting this thread because the Simmons question has been on my mind and I think it’s going to start being heavily discussed after the kid blows up the Combine.  I’m not excited about the idea of picking Simmons (and think it’s a long shot that he falls to 11), but I do think there is a world where Douglas views Simmons as a top 5 player in the draft and sees the depth of the OT and WR classes as giving him the flexibility to go defense in round 1.

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I gave up on getting an edge rusher after the jets passed on Allen because “he didn’t show any pass rush moves” in college

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9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I gave up on getting an edge rusher after the jets passed on Allen because “he didn’t show any pass rush moves” in college

And still proceeded to pass on another half dozen guys who could have improved the position. Anyone other then Jachai Polite.

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On 2/18/2020 at 3:49 PM, David Harris said:

I do a couple quick mock drafts online daily using a couple sites with varying big boards and each draft seems like the talent and needs match up for the jets to go:

first round: OT

second: WR (E.G. Reagor; Aiyuk, Jefferson, etc)

Third 1: OL (Ruis, Muni, Bradberry, Peat, Prince, Young etc)

Third 2: WR- lots of names

 

 

Consider me a very happy man if the Jets’ first three picks go OT, Jefferson and Bradberry.

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20 hours ago, MindOverMatter said:

And still proceeded to pass on another half dozen guys who could have improved the position. Anyone other then Jachai Polite.

Luckily somehow Mac accidentally drafted a good cover corner in Austin in the later rounds

 

I still think QW will improve.  

 

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I think there is a legitimate possibility that JD take K'lavon Chaisson at 11 and while we desperately need OL help, its possible we focus on that later and take a guy who could be an elite edge rusher.  

Chaisson is NOT Arden Key, he is 6'4 250 and plays the run very well for someone who is also an elite, speed edge rusher.  He is also a high character guy and is only 20 years old.  

Im not sure how ewe would plug other holes (maybe trade down a couple spots if we like Chaisson) if we use 11 on an edge rusher, but pass rush also happen to be a hole on this team.  Its also important to remember that saying "Mac drafted too much defense" is not a reason to pass on a player who isnt a defensive lineman and could be the elite pass rusher we've been missing for years.  

 

 

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Matt Miller posted an article yesterday that discusses Chaisson and how he could be a considered a top 10 pick after the combine.  He also speculates that the Jets could be his landing spot.

———

Whether it's from agents, scouts, players or fellow media members, everyone wants to know the same thing this week—who is going to show out at the 2020 NFL Scouting Combine?

That's a hard question to answer when you live and breathe the NFL draft on the daily. There are 337 players invited to Indianapolis to work out in front of scouts and coaches, so it's hard to narrow that down to just one player who could have a DK Metcalf or Nick Bosa kind of workout. But from film study and conversations with football people and trainers, there is a player whose on-field product was good enough that a great workout could throw him into the national spotlight with combine drills now televised in prime time.

That's LSU's K'Lavon Chaisson.

A redshirt sophomore in 2019, Chaisson was the best defensive player on a Tigers defense that will have all 11 starters eventually drafted—and many of the backups, too. Rocking the famed No. 18 jersey—handed out annually to a high-character player who exhibits leadership and work ethic—Chaisson was the focal point for SEC offensive coordinators. 

You can Google his stats and probably won't fall in love—he had 6.5 sacks to go with 13.5 tackles for a loss—but it's his impact on the game that is eye-opening. Chaisson shows burst with an ability to bend around the edge, but like Jacksonville Jaguars rookie Josh Allen, he's also asked to stop the run by taking on offensive tackles and pulling guards. He's asked to drop into coverage and follow tight ends or running backs down the field. He wasn't a one-trick speed-rusher like many assume; Chaisson is a complete player.
 

The on-field is superb, and good enough that he is already ranked No. 10 overall on my updated big board, but the workouts are expected to be dynamic.

At 6'4" and a listed 250 pounds, Chaisson is expected to drop jaws with his performance at Lucas Oil Stadium if he opts to work out. There are credible rumors that many top players may not work out given the combine's change to a prime-time format—better to let other prospects figure out the new system and not the top players is how one agent explained.

Whether or not he tests, Chaisson will go through medical exams and interviews, and those areas are more important than any drill you'll see on NFL Network. A good rule of thumb for the combine is that the things you don't see are the most important. Medicals and interviews are the keys for a player who missed all but one 2018 game with a knee injury and was held out of two games in 2019 with an ankle injury.

Chaisson wasn't awarded No. 18 at LSU without a serious vouching for his character and work ethic by coaches and players. His interviews should be flawless, which in itself could push him into the top 10 picks of a loaded 2020 class.

It's easy to see quarterbacks and offensive tackles flying off the board early in Round 1, but Chaisson has a fit with many teams in the top 15. Before free agency, the Carolina Panthers, Jacksonville Jaguars, New York Jets, Indianapolis Colts and Tampa Bay Buccaneers are all logical fits for a player one LSU coach told me is the best pass-rusher they've ever had in Baton Rouge.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2877203-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-klavon-chaisson-will-dominate-2020-nfl-combine.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

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