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Trading Avery?


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6 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

I just can not understand why posters always want to get rid of good players.    Also why posters think any good players suck as soon as they put in a jets jersey.  
 

avery and cj are both great players.  
 

personally I would love to see this D with both healthy, Adams, Q with a better CB and a edge rusher., but hey, why have a top defense.  
 

 

 

At least get something for them.  Avery is far too valuable to cut outright.  

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There are some additional exceptions.  Calling this guy KGB was legit.   And then sometimes it takes two to tango:   and honorable mention goes to:

I know what I'd like to do with her.

I love when people are on a first name basis with players.

20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The $2M is Avery's regardless.  We'd only save $6.5M.  

 

There aren't really any quality FA Guard candidates at the moment.  Scherff is average at best and will want to be paid like a top 5 G.  

No way, Having money to spend to spend on bringing back Lewis and signing Glasgow or Thuney or Spain will really help out this OL.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Try to trade Williamson if you can.  Doubt we'd get anything more than a 6th rounder if we tried to move him, in which case that isn't a worthwhile avenue.  I'd maybe try to re-work his deal.  

Cutting him outright makes no sense to me.  Just 2 years ago he was one of the top 2 players on the defense.  You don't just get rid of someone like that for nothing. 

It's insane that many of you want to bring back Robby on huge money and hand Jamal $17M+ but somehow draw the line on paying a worthy ILB $6.5M?  Why, because we have some depth at the position, and need that money to try to sign players who will never end up here, like Jack Conklin?  Ridiculous.  

Keep him he is worth more then a 6th but if this past yr proves anything we need more good players

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13 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

I just can not understand why posters always want to get rid of good players.    Also why posters think any good players suck as soon as they put in a jets jersey.  
 

 

personally I would love to see this D with both healthy, Adams, Q with a better CB and a edge rusher., but hey, why have a top defense.  
 

 

One is good the other is very good. Availability is important.

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4 minutes ago, rammagen said:

Keep him he is worth more then a 6th but if this past yr proves anything we need more good players

More good players....or...

Image result for football moore good dick

Sorry.  I'm just not in the mood to focus on work today so this is the result.

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52 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The $2M is Avery's regardless.  We'd only save $6.5M.  

 

There aren't really any quality FA Guard candidates at the moment.  Scherff is average at best and will want to be paid like a top 5 G.  

Right. The point is ILB isn’t an issue without Avery, he’s a good player that we don’t need. We need 7 new offensive starters (besides Sam, Bell, Crowder, Herndon)- use that $6.5 mill to get those players.

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56 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The $2M is Avery's regardless.  We'd only save $6.5M.  

He doesn't earn $2M for getting cut. The Jets are just penalized $2M in cap space. To manipulate the cap we can hand out signing bonuses to the incoming FAs. The penalty of course is dead money when it's time to cut them.

As for Avery he doesn't have any guarentee left on his contract 

Contract Notes

Avery Williamson signed a three year, $22.5 million contract with the Jets. Williamson received $16 million guaranteed at signing. The guarantee consists of Williamson's 2018 and 2019 base salaries and a $6 million signing bonus. Williamson can earn an additional $500,000 for making the Pro Bowl.

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What's the current ILB Depth chart (assuming everyone's healthy)?  Is it...

Mosley - Hewitt - Worrilow

Williamson - Cashman - Burgess

If that's the case and Mosely will come back healthy in 2020, then I'd find a way to either trade Williamson or release him.  ILB surprisingly turned into a strength of this team even with the two starters out this past year.  Hewitt and Burgess in particular really grew into better players with the increased playing time they got.  We could do a lot worse than having Mosley and Hewitt as starters with Cashman and Burgess behind them IMO.

ILB isn't the problem....it's OLB that's the issue.  Jenkins is a FA, Copeland is a role player and shouldn't be an every-down starter.  I was hoping that the Jets could keep Jenkins and upgrade Copeland in FA.  It's been 5+ years since the Jets have had a consistent, solid pass rush from the edge.  Heck, Gregg Williams had to bring his strong safety up to the LOS to generate sacks.

OLB is the priority and if the Jets can somehow get value for Williamson they should absolutely do it.

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7 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I love when people are on a first name basis with players.

I've done it with these two. Most of the time it's for players with common last names, or in this case when 2 players on the same team have the same last name. The alternative is to type out first and last name every time. Sounds a bit robotic after the first time.

Also...

On 8/15/2019 at 8:04 PM, Gastineau Lives said:

Jamal

 

On 9/22/2019 at 9:07 PM, Gastineau Lives said:

Sam wouldve put up 45 today

;) probably dozens/hundreds more if  @Maxman wasn't withholding site search results like they're cash money. 

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24 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

What's the current ILB Depth chart (assuming everyone's healthy)?  Is it...

Mosley - Hewitt - Worrilow

Williamson - Cashman - Burgess

If that's the case and Mosely will come back healthy in 2020, then I'd find a way to either trade Williamson or release him.  ILB surprisingly turned into a strength of this team even with the two starters out this past year.  Hewitt and Burgess in particular really grew into better players with the increased playing time they got.  We could do a lot worse than having Mosley and Hewitt as starters with Cashman and Burgess behind them IMO.

ILB isn't the problem....it's OLB that's the issue.  Jenkins is a FA, Copeland is a role player and shouldn't be an every-down starter.  I was hoping that the Jets could keep Jenkins and upgrade Copeland in FA.  It's been 5+ years since the Jets have had a consistent, solid pass rush from the edge.  Heck, Gregg Williams had to bring his strong safety up to the LOS to generate sacks.

OLB is the priority and if the Jets can somehow get value for Williamson they should absolutely do it.

I believe Hewitt and Worrilow are unrestricted free agents and Burgess is a restricted free agents.  So the line-up as of today is Mosley, Williamson, Cashman for the two ILB positions.

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23 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I've done it with these two. Most of the time it's for players with common last names, or in this case when 2 players on the same team have the same last name. The alternative is to type out first and last name every time. Sounds a bit robotic after the first time.

Also...

 

;) probably dozens/hundreds more if  @Maxman wasn't withholding site search results like they're cash money. 

I don't know. Its kind of a feel thing. Sam is Sam. Jamal too. Avery doesn't feel familiar enough.

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22 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

I believe Hewitt and Worrilow are unrestricted free agents and Burgess is a restricted free agents.  So the line-up as of today is Mosley, Williamson, Cashman for the two ILB positions.

Thanks.  And....ouch.  Hewitt probably made himself some money this past season.  Would really like to see him back.

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1 hour ago, David Harris said:

Right. The point is ILB isn’t an issue without Avery, he’s a good player that we don’t need. We need 7 new offensive starters (besides Sam, Bell, Crowder, Herndon)- use that $6.5 mill to get those players.

I agree we have other needs.  Hence why I'm saying to trade him.

Cutting an asset makes no sense to me though.  That $6.5M won't be the difference between building an OL or not.  It's only impacting the 2020 cap.  

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

1.  He's probably signing back with Tennessee.

2.  Even if he doesn't, there's a lot of teams with cap space and need a RT.  This isn't like last offseason where we have more cap space than everybody else.  The Mosley contract ensured that.  He'll have a pick of a lot of destinations.  Why would he choose here?

I could say that for every FA at every position every year. We can pick and choose who we think is unrealistic every single time based on your ideas, but Conklin is just as realistic as anyone else.

Truth is it might be smarter to go for guards in FA and leave Tackles to the draft just for financial reasons, but we will be able to offer just as much of the going rate as anyone else for a position like RT. Not worth debating really as it's all made up at this point, but Tenn didn't exercise his 5th yr option and haven[t signed him yet so until that happens he's in play. I'm sure he would just love to test the FA market just like everyone else.

$500 says he leaves Tenn. :) 

JK of course. 

 

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3 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

No, its just dopey

I think making that argument is dopey. The guy has a full name Using either one of those qualifies in identifying him. I don't get why there is an issue.  You're not alone though. I've seen others bring that up. I just don't get it I suppose. 

Hey... I thought you were leaving Jets fanhood. What happened man? :) 

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7 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

I could say that for every FA at every position every year. We can pick and choose who we think is unrealistic every single time based on your ideas, but Conklin is just as realistic as anyone else.

Not really, no.  Because Conklin is the best OL on the market who is also a top 5 or so RT in the league.  Very rarely does a legit talent like that hit free agency.  And when he does, he draws attention from nearly all 32 teams.  Making it less likely than "ordinary" FA's that the Jets would be the ones to get him, even though OT is our biggest need.

It's also why I don't think Conklin will hit free agency in the first place.  There's absolutely no reason for the Titans not to bring back an elite RT in his prime.  It would be the height of stupidity for a team that bases nearly all of its success on its running game, with Conklin being arguably the biggest reason for Derrick Henry's success in 2019.  

I've stated in other threads the reason why it made sense for the Titans not to give Conklin his 5th-year guarantee.  That 5th-year is fully guaranteed for injury, meaning they'd have to pay him all $13M if he gets hurt.  For a guy who tore his ACL 2 years ago that would not be wise.  But that does NOT mean he's a lock to hit free agency.  Far from it.  

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51 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

I believe Hewitt and Worrilow are unrestricted free agents and Burgess is a restricted free agents.  So the line-up as of today is Mosley, Williamson, Cashman for the two ILB positions.

This is a good point and I think it will be interesting how it plays out.  We all thought Hewitt made himself some change based on what he did in 2018, but he signed back for 2019 at 1/$1.5M.  Burgess is restricted, so they will probably have him back and he played almost every defensive snap from week 7 on.  Worrilow is unrestricted, but he didn't even play on D.  It is hard to tell what Gregg Williams thought about those guys, but it should be easy to put together a decent group.

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13 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Truth is it might be smarter to go for guards in FA and leave Tackles to the draft just for financial reasons, but we will be able to offer just as much of the going rate as anyone else for a position like RT.

That is one way to look at it.  The other is that drafted tackles that don't make it can often kick inside Scherff, Gallery , Winters, Connor Williams, etc.  The list of guards that successfully kicked outside is fairly short - Damien Woody and Brandon Albert.  I'm sure there were a few more, but how many?

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is one way to look at it.  The other is that drafted tackles that don't make it can often kick inside Scherff, Gallery , Winters, Connor Williams, etc.  The list of guards that successfully kicked outside is fairly short - Damien Woody and Brandon Albert.  I'm sure there were a few more, but how many?

Yeah, I was more speaking of remaining in the position though. The good/bad news is that we need all of em. Guards, Centers, Tackles and depth.  But I hear ya. 

My best case this offseason is grabbing a RT, Conklin being the one I want and a Guard in FA before grabbing a T or two and a C/G in the draft. I'd like to see 3 coming in from the draft alone. And if we can only get one position group nailed down solid this offseason I want it to be the line. WR next.  But if we pull of legitimately solidifying this o line for Sam Darnold and the RB's I will be happy. 

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22 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not really, no.  Because Conklin is the best OL on the market who is also a top 5 or so RT in the league.  Very rarely does a legit talent like that hit free agency.  And when he does, he draws attention from nearly all 32 teams.  Making it less likely than "ordinary" FA's that the Jets would be the ones to get him, even though OT is our biggest need.

It's also why I don't think Conklin will hit free agency in the first place.  There's absolutely no reason for the Titans not to bring back an elite RT in his prime.  It would be the height of stupidity for a team that bases nearly all of its success on its running game, with Conklin being arguably the biggest reason for Derrick Henry's success in 2019.  

I've stated in other threads the reason why it made sense for the Titans not to give Conklin his 5th-year guarantee.  That 5th-year is fully guaranteed for injury, meaning they'd have to pay him all $13M if he gets hurt.  For a guy who tore his ACL 2 years ago that would not be wise.  But that does NOT mean he's a lock to hit free agency.  Far from it.  

It also doesn't mean that Conklin appreciates their tactic. He is free to do what he wants. I'll add that the Titans will have about $40 mil less cap space than us this offseason.  I hear and can appreciate every one of the points youre making, but once again they are not necessarily factual.  The titans didn't want to commit to him due to injury. So now he is supposed to just commit to them as a result? When more than likely other teams will be able to offer more?   

They have no QB under contract and Henry is a FA along with 1/3 of the rest of their team. Where are they getting all of this money?  

Conklin signing with the Titans, while I get your points, is far from a lock.  one could argue that he's actually more likely to sign with the Jets. 

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4 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

It also doesn't mean that Conklin appreciates their tactic. He is free to do what he wants. I'll add that the Titans will have about $40 mil less cap space than us this offseason.  I hear and can appreciate every one of the points youre making, but once again they are not necessarily factual.  The titans didn't want to commit to him due to injury. So now he is supposed to just commit to them as a result? When more than likely other teams will be able to offer more?   

They have no QB under contract and Henry is a FA along with 1/3 of the rest of their team. Where are they getting all of this money?  

Conklin signing with the Titans, while I get your points, is far from a lock.  one could argue that he's actually more likely to sign with the Jets. 

 

$40M less cap space?  Where are you getting this from?  Per Overthecap.com, Currently the Titans have MORE cap space, at $50.7M to $49.7M.  

If they offer Conklin a mega offer that makes him the highest paid RT in the NFL, he'd be silly not to consider it.  

Worst comes to worst, the Titans can also franchise tag him for $16.1M.  Decidedly not ideal, but its possible.  

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49 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

I think making that argument is dopey. The guy has a full name Using either one of those qualifies in identifying him. I don't get why there is an issue.  You're not alone though. I've seen others bring that up. I just don't get it I suppose. 

Hey... I thought you were leaving Jets fanhood. What happened man? :) 

When did I say that?

Its not really an argument, just a pet peeve. Im a cranky old man. You're a nice old man. I didn't mean dopey. I meant goofy anyway.

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5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Try to trade Williamson if you can.  Doubt we'd get anything more than a 6th rounder if we tried to move him, in which case that isn't a worthwhile avenue.  I'd maybe try to re-work his deal.  

Cutting him outright makes no sense to me.  Just 2 years ago he was one of the top 2 players on the defense.  You don't just get rid of someone like that for nothing. 

It's insane that many of you want to bring back Robby on huge money and hand Jamal $17M+ but somehow draw the line on paying a worthy ILB $6.5M?  Why, because we have some depth at the position, and need that money to try to sign players who will never end up here, like Jack Conklin?  Ridiculous.  

Also, Burgess and Hewitt are FAs and won't be coming back for peanuts. So when you look at Avery's 6.5 mil it doesn't look that bad considering Hewitt may want around 4.5 and Burgess may want close to the same. 

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There aren't really any quality FA Guard candidates at the moment.  Scherff is average at best and will want to be paid like a top 5 G.  

I'd go hard after Thuney but know that Brady is testing FA maybe they sign him instead. I like Glasgow from Detroit, he can at least play C and G

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1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:

I think making that argument is dopey. The guy has a full name Using either one of those qualifies in identifying him. I don't get why there is an issue.  You're not alone though. I've seen others bring that up. I just don't get it I suppose. 

Hey... I thought you were leaving Jets fanhood. What happened man? :) 

we should just use #'s...

free #11!!

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6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's insane that many of you want to bring back Robby on huge money and hand Jamal $17M+ but somehow draw the line on paying a worthy ILB $6.5M?

Almost as insane as trying to put Avery and Jamal on equal footing?

One is a slightly better than average ILB coming off a missed season due to a knee.

The other is the best player on our team, a All Pro, Pro Bowl player.  Not all that confusing with these two

 

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1 hour ago, PepPep said:

Also, Burgess and Hewitt are FAs and won't be coming back for peanuts. So when you look at Avery's 6.5 mil it doesn't look that bad considering Hewitt may want around 4.5 and Burgess may want close to the same. 

They can bring back Burgess under an RFA tender at under 2m. Hewitt will price himself out.  A top 3 of Mosley, Burgess, Cashman with a guy like BJ Bello backing them up is good enough depth.

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2 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

When did I say that?

Its not really an argument, just a pet peeve. Im a cranky old man. You're a nice old man. I didn't mean dopey. I meant goofy anyway.

Hey man!  My wife said I'm not old so screw you!  I get it though. Damned kids today and all that. :) 

Wasn't that you? Remember at some point during the season you said you were going to go to the game and then be done with the Jets? We talked about it and you swore you were done.  Not you?   I think it was man.  

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2 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Lol

Unrelated: you remember Hy Tulip?

I am not calling you Hy Tulip!

Of course I remember it.  I think it burned.  We used to go there to get a 40 and hot dog because they didn't proof.  I distinctly remember a friend taking us there and then dragging us to the Benson theater to see some Porky's rip off that he had seen with a girl the night before.  There was a short before it.  I think it was the Java Junky from SNL or something like it.  Some kind of Reefer Madness parody.  The short was great, then my friend leans over giggling and says "You guys are going to kill me.  That was the best part, this movie sucks!"

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

$40M less cap space?  Where are you getting this from?  Per Overthecap.com, Currently the Titans have MORE cap space, at $50.7M to $49.7M.  

If they offer Conklin a mega offer that makes him the highest paid RT in the NFL, he'd be silly not to consider it.  

Worst comes to worst, the Titans can also franchise tag him for $16.1M.  Decidedly not ideal, but its possible.  

Hmmmm maybe I have that number wrong. I'll look at it later to see what I had in my head. I think it was after Winters and the rest get taken off of the ledger. 

The point is that they have real infrastructure stuff to take care of. QB and the RB that literally carried them on his back the second half of the season and playoffs are two of the many priorities. Plus they have like 25 other positions to fill before the draft. 

I also see Brady tied to them in some places.  If that happens....

Conklin, while obviously important might just be odd man out with the pay days.

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