Jump to content
KRL

Brooks Top 5 Prospects At Each Position

Recommended Posts

Interesting he has Willis at the top for OT's, even goes to say that his Pass protection is "rock solid". 

In my honest and uneducated opinion I would prefer Thomas, Becton, or Wirfs over Willis but if he is a dominant run blocker as well as solid in pass pro, i'd be willing to settle.

  • Upvote 1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, bitonti said:

looking at the lists, a legit case can be made for any of the top 5 OT at 11.

 

Of that list of 5 who would choose as your answer to these 3 questions....

1. Which player has the biggest potential to bust?

2. Which player is the safest pick?

3. Which player has the biggest upside?

95417218_ScreenShot2020-02-12at1_11_47PM.thumb.png.89cec3abc13039132938bcfdc4ecaed8.png

(Don't worry, I'm not setting you up to necro this thread in 2 years! :D  Just value your opinion.)  Others welcome to chime in here too, especially guys like @RobR, etc. who seem to know a lot more about OLine play than I do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Of that list of 5 who would choose as your answer to these 3 questions....

1. Which player has the biggest potential to bust?

2. Which player is the safest pick?

3. Which player has the biggest upside?

95417218_ScreenShot2020-02-12at1_11_47PM.thumb.png.89cec3abc13039132938bcfdc4ecaed8.png

(Don't worry, I'm not setting you up to necro this thread in 2 years! :D  Just value your opinion.)  Others welcome to chime in here too, especially guys like @RobR, etc. who seem to know a lot more about OLine play than I do.

1. Becton. He has the highest ceiling but the lowest floor. He's also not as polished so he will struggle as a rookie but 2-3 years down the road he has the ability to be the best of the bunch.

2. Wirfs. Because he can play either side and is well rounded

3. Becton. I still think Becton has the highest upside but I'd put Thomas as my number 1 overall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bottom line, if douglas wants a tackle at 11 he can have one.  if he goes balls out and somehow lands conklin, then it opens it up to take a wr or he can still take a tackle and fix it for the longer haul.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

bottom line, if douglas wants a tackle at 11 he can have one.  if he goes balls out and somehow lands conklin, then it opens it up to take a wr or he can still take a tackle and fix it for the longer haul.

If he gets Conklin, I would be fine with a trade down even in the 1st, and then WR or OL.

I'd love a trade down in the 2nd or 3rd rounds, even just netting more picks the following draft for a mild trade down.  They have SO many needs.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can look at the prior drafts, but my guess is that teams that needed a WR, for example, would pick one of those with a lesser grade and leave a potential Pro Bowl OL or other position on the board.  

Most of the Jets draft posts focus on picking an OL, which is not an unreasonable reaction for a team whose OL was both historically neglected and terrible last year.  

But, even though this is a very deep WR draft, I am just getting the impression that WRs like Jeudy and Lamb are historically great.  If the choice is to draft a T that ends up a G or a project T whose profile has never worked in the NFL well, I don’t know you pass up a WR that could be a potential perennial All Pro.  We are not talking about Kevin White.  

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, RobR said:

1. Becton. He has the highest ceiling but the lowest floor. He's also not as polished so he will struggle as a rookie but 2-3 years down the road he has the ability to be the best of the bunch.

2. Wirfs. Because he can play either side and is well rounded

3. Becton. I still think Becton has the highest upside but I'd put Thomas as my number 1 overall.

You must like Becton if you have him at #1 and #3!  I know he is big, but c'mon. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, varjet said:

But, even though this is a very deep WR draft, I am just getting the impression that WRs like Jeudy and Lamb are historically great.  If the choice is to draft a T that ends up a G or a project T whose profile has never worked in the NFL well, I don’t know you pass up a WR that could be a potential perennial All Pro.  We are not talking about Kevin White.  

Problem is even top-flight WRs  seem to have a very limited impact on a team's long-term success and championship chances.  Consider all the great WR's the last 25 years who didn't win a SB.....Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, TO, Antonio Brown, Andre Johnson, Julio Jones, etc etc.

Now look at some of the recent WR1s who won titles:  Julian Edelman, Alshon Jeffery, Brandin Cooks, Manny Sanders/Demaryius Thomas, Doug Baldwin, Anquan Boldin, Mario Manningham/Victor Cruz, Jordy Nelson, Marques Colston, Santonio Holmes, Plaxico Burress/Amani Toomer.  

Sure, there's some good WRs on that list.  Maybe even a couple HOFers.  But none of them were ever as good as any of the guys on the first list of ringless receivers.  

I'll take a multi-year Pro Bowl RT over even an elite WR, probably.  

  • Upvote 2
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Problem is even top-flight WRs  seem to have a very limited impact on a team's long-term success and championship chances.  Consider all the great WR's the last 25 years who didn't win a SB.....Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, TO, Antonio Brown, Andre Johnson, Julio Jones, etc etc.

Now look at some of the recent WR1s who won titles:  Julian Edelman, Alshon Jeffery, Brandin Cooks, Manny Sanders/Demaryius Thomas, Doug Baldwin, Anquan Boldin, Mario Manningham/Victor Cruz, Jordy Nelson, Marques Colston, Santonio Holmes, Plaxico Burress/Amani Toomer.  

Sure, there's some good WRs on that list.  Maybe even a couple HOFers.  But none of them were ever as good as any of the guys on the first list of ringless receivers.  

I'll take a multi-year Pro Bowl RT over even an elite WR, probably.  

perhaps more than any other position, wr is dependent on the players around him.  i use the patriots model of how to sustain an offense.  they kept the qb and the #1 priority was always offensive line.  they rotated rbs and wrs and TEs as needed.  the rbs usually could catch and were dangerous as receivers, with someone like dillon as an exception.  they had moss for only 1 year, which again was the exception.  they were smart enough to draft gronk, who will probably go down as the most dangerous TE in nfl history, but hey, sometimes you get lucky.  

get the qb, protect the qb, and the rbs/wrs are filled in next.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You must like Becton if you have him at #1 and #3!  I know he is big, but c'mon. 

Read my post again. The 1,2, and 3 were in reference to the 3 questions Jetstream asked. Thomas is still my favorite of the group.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, varjet said:

even though this is a very deep WR draft, I am just getting the impression that WRs like Jeudy and Lamb are historically great.  If the choice is to draft a T that ends up a G or a project T whose profile has never worked in the NFL well, I don’t know you pass up a WR that could be a potential perennial All Pro.  We are not talking about Kevin White.  

atta baby!! i feel ya

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, varjet said:

even though this is a very deep WR draft, I am just getting the impression that WRs like Jeudy and Lamb are historically great.  If the choice is to draft a T that ends up a G or a project T whose profile has never worked in the NFL well, I don’t know you pass up a WR that could be a potential perennial All Pro.  We are not talking about Kevin White.  

Interesting take.  Some people could even make the argument that the Chiefs real breakthrough in the Super Bowl was only because of that obscene route that Tyreek Hill ran to get open deep on 3rd and 15.

While an OT is important on every offensive play, run or pass, I could also argue that so are WRs.  Some people might say that a WR only had 4 catches for 85 yards and 1 TD....as if that was his only impact on the game.  Great wide receivers draw enough attention that they get the WR2 and WR3 open.  Great wide receivers draw Safeties deep and keep 8 men out of the box allowing an offense to run the ball, etc.

As I said earlier (or maybe in another thread), I'd rather have the #1 WR than the #4 or 5 OT.  OT is a screaming need for the Jets but they need to be careful.....WR is also a major need.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Problem is even top-flight WRs  seem to have a very limited impact on a team's long-term success and championship chances.  Consider all the great WR's the last 25 years who didn't win a SB.....Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, TO, Antonio Brown, Andre Johnson, Julio Jones, etc etc.

Now look at some of the recent WR1s who won titles:  Julian Edelman, Alshon Jeffery, Brandin Cooks, Manny Sanders/Demaryius Thomas, Doug Baldwin, Anquan Boldin, Mario Manningham/Victor Cruz, Jordy Nelson, Marques Colston, Santonio Holmes, Plaxico Burress/Amani Toomer.  

Sure, there's some good WRs on that list.  Maybe even a couple HOFers.  But none of them were ever as good as any of the guys on the first list of ringless receivers.  

I'll take a multi-year Pro Bowl RT over even an elite WR, probably.  

Good response.   I hear you.  But that is the question-

If JD is confident that he can pick a perennial Pro Bowl RT at 11 and leaves an elite WR on the board, I think he does that.   But I think he needs to be REALLY SURE that the pick is that. 

Do you take Becton over Jeudy?  I would not.   If after the Combine we hear that Wirfs and Wills are really Gs, that does not help either.  

That is the really the bet and the essence of value drafting.   Would rather have Pro Bowl T over Elite All Pro WR, but that is adjusted based on probability-which result is more likely.  

I think the likelihood of Jeudy and Lamb being very good is very high.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RobR said:

Read my post again. The 1,2, and 3 were in reference to the 3 questions Jetstream asked. Thomas is still my favorite of the group.

I read your post perfectly.  The problem is that I didn't read the post you were responding to so well!

I have a decent talent for sifting through the junk on scouting reports, but I am not exactly an offensive line expert, so I will refrain.  I think an offensive line pick should be more of a slam dunk than a WR.  OTOH, I took Bolles and Lindstrom in the 1st round of the JN mock drafts over the last 3 years, sandwiching Harold Landry.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I think an offensive line pick should be more of a slam dunk than a WR.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with this statement because players bust at every position equally. For me the hardest part about evaluations are what's between the ears of these players because anyone can watch tape and measurables are out there for everyone too see. What most of us don't get is whether the kid will mail it in after a payday, curl into a shell once things go wrong, and their true passion and work ethic for being a football player. 

Even with red flags for everyone too see, GM's still pull the trigger in hopes they are smarter than all of the facts that are presented to them. Look no further than the selection of QW and Polite by our dopey ass GM. Red Flags galore on both players that even our armchair GM's pointed out well before the draft, yet a GM like Mac still rolled the dice.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like it’s necessary to state here that Bucky Brooks is ******* terrible at a job that is effectively mindless titty-labor

  • Upvote 2
  • Post of the Week 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

#11 will be a lot easier to predict after FA. If we sign a sanders/agholor/funchess or resign RA there’s a 0 percent chance we take jeudy/lamb. If we sign Conklin or castanzo (doubt it) I could see us going WR or edge but still think it’s prob greater than 50% we take an OT at 11.

Ultimately though it will come down to what Douglas thinks of these tackles. None of these OTs are sure things. Becton seems boom or bust, wirfs and wills are RTs that I have seen multiple reports say may end up as guards and Andrew Thomas was written up in Matt miller’s scouting report as saying NFL people believe the media is higher on than NFL scouts (whether you believe that or not is up to you). Jones it seems everyone has at 5 but closer to the first group than the next tier of tackles.
 

If Douglas believes all of these guys have high caliber starter tackle grades than you just prey one of them falls and they are a no brainer pick at 11 if they are there. But if he thinks they are just mediocre prospects and you could get a similar player in next years draft and you come out of free agency with DT and Perriman as our wideouts than I think you just look to sign a guy like Beachum to a 2 year deal and draft a project OT in round 2 or 3 or wait until next year because I think Jeudy and CD are unbelievable WR prospects that may not be Julio Jones/megatron level... but right after that. You could wait 5 years and not see a prospect like that and if you believe in drafting BPA and want to help your QB you can’t pass on them. I trust Douglas ability to scout a OT and believe if he is drafting them it’s not forcing a pick and he believes these guys can be an anchor of our oline for a decade. Preying im right 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Of that list of 5 who would choose as your answer to these 3 questions....

1. Which player has the biggest potential to bust?

2. Which player is the safest pick?

3. Which player has the biggest upside?

95417218_ScreenShot2020-02-12at1_11_47PM.thumb.png.89cec3abc13039132938bcfdc4ecaed8.png

(Don't worry, I'm not setting you up to necro this thread in 2 years! :D  Just value your opinion.)  Others welcome to chime in here too, especially guys like @RobR, etc. who seem to know a lot more about OLine play than I do.

Player has the biggest chance to bust - Becton.  He seems like he gets lost vs speed rushers from what I have seen and looks around like.  Where did he go George?  (Bugs Bunny reference)

Safest pick - Wirfs

Biggest Upside - Becton - At his size he could be a beast .  Than he does not play in the bowl game.  I get it.  Its all about money. 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, varjet said:

Good response.   I hear you.  But that is the question-

If JD is confident that he can pick a perennial Pro Bowl RT at 11 and leaves an elite WR on the board, I think he does that.   But I think he needs to be REALLY SURE that the pick is that. 

Do you take Becton over Jeudy?  I would not.   If after the Combine we hear that Wirfs and Wills are really Gs, that does not help either.  

That is the really the bet and the essence of value drafting.   Would rather have Pro Bowl T over Elite All Pro WR, but that is adjusted based on probability-which result is more likely.  

I think the likelihood of Jeudy and Lamb being very good is very high.  

Jeudy over Becton all day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Green Truth said:

Player has the biggest chance to bust - Becton.  He seems like he gets lost vs speed rushers from what I have seen and looks around like.  Where did he go George?  (Bugs Bunny reference)

Safest pick - Wirfs

Biggest Upside - Becton - At his size he could be a beast .  Than he does not play in the bowl game.  I get it.  Its all about money. 

 

Becton seems like the kind of player who, depending on how he does at the Combine for everything....size, speed, OLine drills, etc.....could either be picked as high as #9 by the Browns or as low as the 2nd round.  He's probably the guy with the most variability in terms of where he could end up.  That Combine will be important for him I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, RobR said:

I'm not sure what you're getting at with this statement because players bust at every position equally. For me the hardest part about evaluations are what's between the ears of these players because anyone can watch tape and measurables are out there for everyone too see. What most of us don't get is whether the kid will mail it in after a payday, curl into a shell once things go wrong, and their true passion and work ethic for being a football player. 

Even with red flags for everyone too see, GM's still pull the trigger in hopes they are smarter than all of the facts that are presented to them. Look no further than the selection of QW and Polite by our dopey ass GM. Red Flags galore on both players that even our armchair GM's pointed out well before the draft, yet a GM like Mac still rolled the dice.

You actually think that all positions bust equally?  I think some positions are much easier to project and there were statistics out a couple of years ago regarding the bust rates and they varied pretty widely.  OTOH offensive line used to be easier to project, but now may be among the most difficult.

I agree completely on the mental aspects and the interviews. I think that is something that armchair GMs, like us, will never get much insight into.  There have been some that say that was what Mangini was really good at running the interviews, which could explain why the drafting got worse under Rex, despite Mangini having little to do with the actual selections.  I think I remember @Matt39 mentioning it.  That is why I don't get all excited about passing on guys like Dalvin Cook who had some red flags, despite his being a better choice than another safety.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone has wills #1

at 11... give me wills, wirfs, Thomas, or Jeudy 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is why I don't get all excited about passing on guys like Dalvin Cook who had some red flags, despite his being a better choice than another safety.

Perhaps, but some teams put TOO much stock into a player's interview/background.  Maybe a 2nd round pick was too high of a price to pay for Cook for his red flags, which included a significant injury history.  But there's been examples of guys falling too far.  Like Justin Houston (pot dropped him to the 3rd round) and Dez Bryant (# 24 overall).  And of course there were the famous examples further back of Moss, Marino and Sapp.  

And on the flip side there are guys who get drafted too high, with their strong character being a big reason for the jump.  Like Lorenzo Mauldin, for instance.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, nico002 said:

Everyone has wills #1

at 11... give me wills, wirfs, Thomas, or Jeudy 

Who is this everyone?  The vast majority I have seen have Thomas #1.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Perhaps, but some teams put TOO much stock into a player's interview/background.  Maybe a 2nd round pick was too high of a price to pay for Cook for his red flags, which included a significant injury history.  But there's been examples of guys falling too far.  Like Justin Houston (pot dropped him to the 3rd round) and Dez Bryant (# 24 overall).  And of course there were the famous examples further back of Moss, Marino and Sapp.  

And on the flip side there are guys who get drafted too high, with their strong character being a big reason for the jump.  Like Lorenzo Mauldin, for instance.  

These are still kids.  It is impossible to predict how they will respond to being in the NFL with 100% accuracy.  You have to find the right fit and trust them.  Some of them will not be able to handle the jump and some teams will have things in place to better deal with certain issues.  Sometimes you get Randy Moss and sometimes you get Justin Blackmon. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Who is this everyone?  The vast majority I have seen have Thomas #1.  

dane brugler has wills over thomas

thomas seems to be falling ever so slightly

he's kind of a rich man's Cordy Glenn 

not exactly a great fit for the gase zone 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

dane brugler has wills over thomas

thomas seems to be falling ever so slightly

he's kind of a rich man's Cordy Glenn 

not exactly a great fit for the gase zone 

I don't dispute that some will have Wills higher, but everyone?  I also don't mind getting someone that is a fit.  Most of what I read says that is the kid from Houston.  OTOH, I think you could do worse than Cordy Glenn at 11.  Especially a rich man's Cordy Glenn. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, bitonti said:

looking at the lists, a legit case can be made for any of the top 5 OT at 11.

 

That is good news. For once need will line up with what is available when the Jets pick. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




Content Partnership

Yes Network

Site Sponsor

MILE-Social - NJ Social Media & SEO company
×
×
  • Create New...