Rumors, Leaks, Reports, Whines, in 2020 Free Agency

[bealeb319]

Jamal Adams is literally the most overrated player in the league.
This is not a 'oh he hates jamal' comment.  It is a true belief. 
For the amount of press he gets, the accolades, for the difference he makes in a football game.
He is at the utter apex of his peak value right here and now.  This is why people are talking about dealing him.
However, for the loyal Jamal supporters no worries at all.  He will be here long term, he will get that massive contract most people feel he deserves.
 

He singlehandedly won two games for us last season...that isn't bad for a box safety.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[Fantasy Island]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Who would you rather have on the roster moving forward: Jamal Adams or CeeDee Lamb?

Lamb

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

That's because our last two GM's crapped the bed on over 80 percent of their draft picks and FA signings.

Did you think Douglas would come in and make us a viable playoff contender in one year?

Not the point. 
 

the goal is to field a competitive team next season. The league is year to year. 

 

[Fantasy Island]

3 hours ago, GeorgeJetson said:

What I don’t think you understand is how much of a crap shoot the draft is. Jamal Adams is elite safety-those are the facts. People who get paid to watch this stuff made him all pro for reason

Here is a question. Which player drafted between picks 3 and 10 last year would you  trade Jamal for? I’m certain every Jets fan on earth would prefer Jamal to Quinnen Williams right now. 

 

[British Jet]

3 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

 

[T0mShane]

8 hours ago, GeorgeJetson said:

People who get paid to watch this stuff made him all pro for reason

Before Jamal was the All Pro strong safety, it was Derwin James. Before it was Derwin James, it was Micah Hyde. Before it was Micah Hyde, it was Eric Weddle. Before it was Eric Weddle, it was Kam Chancellor. All Pro strong safety isn’t a the accolade you think it is. 

[T0mShane]

9 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

But if you watch every game, you can't tell me you don't see him flying around making plays both against the run and pass.

Your whole argument seems to be that Jamal Adams plays really hard and that deserves to be rewarded. “Playing hard” is such a low bar for any player, and it’s constantly used—along with “he’s our only draft pick that worked out”—to obfuscate the fact that Jamal Adams doesn’t produce all that much non the field relative to other strong safeties. People think he’s better because he’s constantly telling you that he’s better. Don’t fall for it. 

[derp]

I think the biggest argument for trading Adams is that his contract comes at a bad time. Pay him right around when Darnold’s contract will hit and the team is pretty bare so theoretically it limits your ability to improve.

I suppose the counterargument would be that the last GM couldn’t draft and the current one clearly doesn’t believe in paying FA’s but rather building from within. Not sure who else is going to get paid over the course of his four or five year deal.

Gregg Williams gets a lot of credit for the defense last year but Adams was the best player on what was a bit of a pieced together group otherwise. I do think he has more of an impact than he gets credit for.

Trading or extending is kind of a wash for me. See both sides and get why it’s polarizing. I think there’s a bit of a mystery box appeal to draft picks (I have no clue if Lamb is going to be good so I take Adams on next years team 11 out of 10 times). Minkah Fitzpatrick type haul would be nice though.

Also think the Adams contract is easier to discuss than the deeper issue which is whether Darnold will deserve an extension by the time he’s due for one. He’s shown promise but he’s not there yet and not knowing if he’ll be there yet is a bit scary. Missing on a QB extension will cripple a team. Frankly extensions for guys who deserve them have crippled teams.

[CanadaSteve]

6 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Not the point. 
 

the goal is to field a competitive team next season. The league is year to year. 

 

And he is fielding a competitive team.  We are not going to the playoffs, but we are better than we were last year.  Isn't saying much, but on paper, we are. 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, derp said:

think the biggest argument for trading Adams is that his contract comes at a bad time. Pay him right around when Darnold’s contract will hit and the team is pretty bare so theoretically it limits your ability to improve.

It’s a more specific argument for me in that I see the *only* path to contention for this team rests on propping up Darnold and, because the offensive talent is so threadbare, you have to make sacrifices elsewhere to direct your resources toward that singular goal. Adams does literally nothing to help Darnold improve, but he would, in theory, have significant value as a trade chip. Adams loses all of that value once he signs that extension. The question is then, should we direct that asset toward helping Darnold, or do we diversify, sign Adams, and hope it works out for Darnold despite leaving those potential picks on the table. In order to justify not trading him, you have to believe that Adams is significantly more impactful than he is on defense, which would make him untouchable. Nobody is saying he’s not a *good* player. We’re saying he’s not *good enough* to 1. Turn down a deal that would return one (or more) big pieces on offense and 2. Give an outsized contract extension to relative to the market for his specific position and as compensation for his actual level of production. 

[#27TheDominator]

Signing an extension doesn't eliminate his value as a trade chip.  You eat the bonus money and you can trade him just fine.  See Beckham, Odell.  Eagles did it with Bradford too.  It is not ideal, but it's not impossible either.  I think the contract is exaggerated too.  If they can have tons of cap money after paying Trumaine Johnson for nothing, they can afford Darnold Adams and other free agents if the contracts are competently drafted.

[heymangold]

I completely get the argument that the contract of Adams and Darnold are going to come at the same time.  When Darnold shows us he’s worth the money I’ll worry about it.  Until then, which is in what 2 years, Adams should be signed long term and given a proper payday.

[ZachEY]

9 hours ago, Tinstar said:

In my opinion there’s a large segment of Jet fans who won’t be happy until the entire roster look like Sam Darnold


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Close.  But it’s not Darnold.  It’s Eric Decker.  Because, come on, obviously.

[GeorgeJetson]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s a more specific argument for me in that I see the *only* path to contention for this team rests on propping up Darnold and, because the offensive talent is so threadbare, you have to make sacrifices elsewhere to direct your resources toward that singular goal. Adams does literally nothing to help Darnold improve, but he would, in theory, have significant value as a trade chip. Adams loses all of that value once he signs that extension. The question is then, should we direct that asset toward helping Darnold, or do we diversify, sign Adams, and hope it works out for Darnold despite leaving those potential picks on the table. In order to justify not trading him, you have to believe that Adams is significantly more impactful than he is on defense, which would make him untouchable. Nobody is saying he’s not a *good* player. We’re saying he’s not *good enough* to 1. Turn down a deal that would return one (or more) big pieces on offense and 2. Give an outsized contract extension to relative to the market for his specific position and as compensation for his actual level of production. 

Flaws in your argument are as follows:

You assume those picks will translate into “big pieces” on offense. The facts are there is a less than 50 percent chance of that happening. Even less so for the Jets who have been incompetent in the draft over the years.

You forget that the Jets are in a terrific situation  from a cap standpoint largely because they have been so horrific at drafting over the years and have nobody to re-sign.

There is more to this franchise than Sam Darnold. We don’t even know for sure if he’s going to be the QB here 2-3 years from now. 

Jamal is more than just a good player. He was mad All Pro for a reason and his career is on a HOF trajectory. Even if he signs an extension he will still have value so long as his play doesn’t drop off. 
 

Sure-Lets trade Jamal for picks that the Jets will likely blow and cap space so they can sign another teams free agent. 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Signing an extension doesn't eliminate his value as a trade chip.  You eat the bonus money and you can trade him just fine.  See Beckham, Odell.  Eagles did it with Bradford too.  It is not ideal, but it's not impossible either.  I think the contract is exaggerated too.  If they can have tons of cap money after paying Trumaine Johnson for nothing, they can afford Darnold Adams and other free agents if the contracts are competently drafted.

Odell Beckham is a better player than Adams by a lot, and both the Beckham and Bradford trades have proven to be painful for all four respective parties in those deals. Those are examples of reasons you don’t trade away, or for, players with giant contracts. You’re passing a mistake back and forth.

[Jet Nut]

14 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

For all the adulation from Fans on this board. The Jets, as currently constituted (after not re-signing Robby) are worse than they were before FA started.

And for this Jet fans are falling over themselves to say how great JD is.

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be a downer but at this point in FA there is  little offensive talent left to make this team any better.

We’re counting on essentially 4 draft picks (1,2, and 2 3’s) to add above average talent to this team.   Otherwise this team is without a single weapon anyone would be worried about on both offense and defense (maybe Jamal Adams)

Barring a big trade we can expect an awful lot of what we’ve seen the past 4 seasons next year.

 

Wow, I'd hate to see you when youre being negative. 

Really, there's little offensive talent left?  We've lost all that offensive talent because of the additions to the OL and swapping Robby for Perriman? 

All while Jet fans are "falling over themselves to say how great JD is"?

 

[Gastineau Lives]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You’re passing a mistake back and forth.

Oh, this is too easy. 

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, GeorgeJetson said:

Jamal is more than just a good player. He was mad All Pro for a reason and his career is on a HOF trajectory

He’s an all pro because there are only three strong safeties left in the league. Most teams are just playing a big corner at that spot now. It’s like saying he’s an All Pro fullback. It’s an outmoded position.

As to the argument, “draft picks are a crap shoot,” no kidding. You’re taking the chance that CeeDee Lamb or Jerry Jeudy (or Wirfs or Becton) are good. That’s a reasonable gamble and that gamble is worth giving up Adams, who we’ve seen the best of and it’s just ok, and whom is a 205 pound player playing down the box 83% of the time. You’re taking a gamble that Adams can sustain this level of play, without injury, for a long time. Paying Adams is also a gamble. 

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Odell Beckham is a better player than Adams by a lot, and both the Beckham and Bradford trades have proven to be painful for all four respective parties in those deals. Those are examples of reasons you don’t trade away, or for, players with giant contracts. You’re passing a mistake back and forth.

That is just the point.  If you make a mistake, you can still pass it off. Obviously it is not ideal, but signing him is the kiss of death either.  I think Adams is better and more useful than you give him credit.  I think you can make him the highest paid safety at $15M.  That is not going to cripple you, especially with the cap going up.  I am also fine with trading him, but not this move him for anything sh*t.  I'm not just taking a low one.  **** that, he's worth more if we keep him the two years and let him walk. 

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Mehta is almost certainly telling the truth here.  

I don’t always love his stuff but in this case he’s likely 100% correct.

Gase is al lunatic and Robby knows it.

But yet Robby waited until the last minute until it was obvious the Jets weren't going to pay him and didnt offer him, what little Carolina offered to take the money and leave.  After the Jets rejected him.

But you see it differently.  

Shocked.

[bealeb319]

You people are rediculous for saying you would trade jamal Adams for lamb. First off you trade the guy now and there is no guarentee who is available for the pick (no one is trading a top 10 draft pick for a player who is not an all pro quarterback) secondly Jamal Adams is a proven talent and lamb is not (so many act as though college highlight film automatically translates to NFL play). I understand we need wr pretty bad but let's stop and use those noggins for a second...if we trade jamal what is left of our secondary? The only guy we have who would start for another team is our nickle cb?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Jamal Adams is literally the most overrated player in the league.

This is not a 'oh he hates jamal' comment.  It is a true belief. 

Like literally dude!

LOL

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That is just the point.  If you make a mistake, you can still pass it off. Obviously it is not ideal, but signing him is the kiss of death either.  I think Adams is better and more useful than you give him credit.  I think you can make him the highest paid safety at $15M.  That is not going to cripple you, especially with the cap going up.  I am also fine with trading him, but not this move him for anything sh*t.  I'm not just taking a low one.  **** that, he's worth more if we keep him the two years and let him walk. 

If the imagined offer is a one and a three, you make the deal imo. If the imagined offer is a top ten pick, you take that, too. If the Browns want to give you the #10, you’d take that in a second because it provides the extra bonus of guaranteeing one of the big OLTs.

As for trading Adams post-extension, i don’t see how you’d get a robust market for him when veteran safeties are signing for $4 million dollars per. 

[British Jet]

5 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

You people are rediculous for saying you would trade jamal Adams for lamb. First off you trade the guy now and there is no guarentee who is available for the pick (no one is trading a top 10 draft pick for a player who is not an all pro quarterback) secondly Jamal Adams is a proven talent and lamb is not (so many act as though college highlight film automatically translates to NFL play). I understand we need wr pretty bad but let's stop and use those noggins for a second...if we trade jamal what is left of our secondary? The only guy we have who would start for another team is our nickle cb?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

I think the point is if we were to trade Adams for another 1st and 2nd round pick, we'd get Lamb + another top tier player in the first round. Would Lamb and that other player make the team better? Perhaps, perhaps not. I'm just thankful we appear to have a professional as a GM now. 

[maury77]

The trade Jamal topic is the coronavirus of this message board, it infects every thread. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Before Jamal was the All Pro strong safety, it was Derwin James. Before it was Derwin James, it was Micah Hyde. Before it was Micah Hyde, it was Eric Weddle. Before it was Eric Weddle, it was Kam Chancellor. All Pro strong safety isn’t a the accolade you think it is. 

So if there wasn't a consensus All Pro S over those it changes what Jamal is and how hes viewed by the voters?

Cool

[derp]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s a more specific argument for me in that I see the *only* path to contention for this team rests on propping up Darnold and, because the offensive talent is so threadbare, you have to make sacrifices elsewhere to direct your resources toward that singular goal. Adams does literally nothing to help Darnold improve, but he would, in theory, have significant value as a trade chip. Adams loses all of that value once he signs that extension. The question is then, should we direct that asset toward helping Darnold, or do we diversify, sign Adams, and hope it works out for Darnold despite leaving those potential picks on the table. In order to justify not trading him, you have to believe that Adams is significantly more impactful than he is on defense, which would make him untouchable. Nobody is saying he’s not a *good* player. We’re saying he’s not *good enough* to 1. Turn down a deal that would return one (or more) big pieces on offense and 2. Give an outsized contract extension to relative to the market for his specific position and as compensation for his actual level of production. 

While I absolutely understand the desire to surround Darnold with good players on offense, I’m not sure I get the desire to go all in on that side of the football to that degree. I don’t want to draft any defensive players in the first four rounds this year, though I’m sure Douglas will, but I’m not sure going beyond that makes a ton of sense. 

Ultimately a competent defense is important for Darnold as well, we saw Adams and a bunch of backups play well enough last year, and when the franchise pulled out all the stops for Mark Sanchez it didn’t mean he developed.

Like I said in the first post I don’t feel strongly one way or the other, frankly depends on the compensation as well, but I could see the argument for leaving the defense alone and focusing the drafts on the offense for a bit.

I think one side overrates him and the other side underrates him. The annoying twitter antics don’t help either.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

So if there wasn't a consensus All Pro S over those it changes what Jamal is and how hes viewed by the voters?

Cool

I’m saying that being an “All Pro Strong Safety” doesn’t necessarily translate to “elite player or talent.” It means you are a good player at a position that most teams don’t invest in, and most high-level athletes don’t play. You end up at strong safety because you’re too slow to play free safety and too small to play ILB. 

[British Jet]

I can't wait to get to page 96 so we don't have huge images of Manish to look at.

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, derp said:

Ultimately a competent defense is important for Darnold as well, we saw Adams and a bunch of backups play well enough last year, and when the franchise pulled out all the stops for Mark Sanchez it didn’t mean he developed.

Just to quibble with this one point, i think you can absolutely field a competent defense without Jamal Adams, and that having Jamal Adams hasn’t elevated the defense enough to justify the status the pro-Adams set wants to bestow upon him.

[CanadaSteve]

Here is a perspective from someone who likes Jamal Adams:

I think he is a great safety, and will continue to get better.  I believe he will be a regular pro-bowler.  I think he does make the team better on defense.

Now, all that said, he is a luxury.  Having one of the top safeties in the league, at least in 2020, seems like a luxury.  Here is what I mean.

If your DL isn't stuffing the run and adding some pressure, a top safety is a luxury.  If you don't have CB who can consistently give the pass rush that extra second, a top safety is a luxury.  If you cannot generate pass rush from skill alone, a top safety is a luxury.  We cannot do all those things currently.  Now, if we could do some of them, having a top safety on a rookie contract WOULD be a great luxury you find a way to enjoy.

Then, we have the issue of finally having a potential franchise quarterback, and he has been working behind one of the worst OL's in recent memory, sub-par WR's, and a RB who has so far been extremely under-utilized.

So, having a top safety, when everything else is below par, is like owning a bright shiny and expensive front door when your family lives in a trailer and goes dumpster-diving for food.

What if, you take that luxury and use it to gain valuable assets that helps you build a solid foundation, for years to come.  Then, when the next luxury comes along, you can enjoy it.  Use it to its potential, and possibly find yourself in a Super Bowl one day?

We won't win a Super Bowl with accessories if we don't have a solid foundation.  Jamal Adams is said luxury, who could be used to potentially bring in a solid foundation for us.

[CanadaSteve]

4 minutes ago, British Jet said:

I can't wait to get to page 96 so we don't have huge images of Manish to look at.

I'm trying....

[CanadaSteve]

5 minutes ago, British Jet said:

I can't wait to get to page 96 so we don't have huge images of Manish to look at.

Does this one push us over the edge?

[CanadaSteve]

What about this one?

[CanadaSteve]

And how about now......