JetsFanShawn Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 36 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: According to the stat table provided in this thread, Darnold has better accuracy than Murray based on completion percentage above expectation. a running QB that is not what they need they need to focus on getting what fits now not in 3 years from now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, Losmeister said: We need numders, data on this... he makes a few plays on the move. DO you think the other QBs dont make a few plays on the move as well? He also misses people on the run... that disgusting underthgrow to the TE in the last Bills game for instance.. a garbage throw that cost us a TD... Wait, wasn't it you in this thread that said "so these FEW occasions don't move the needle"? Without providing numbers? Can't make this stuff up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, JetsFanShawn said: a running QB that is not what they need they need to focus on getting what fits now not in 3 years from now Huh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, Losmeister said: You're fine with sh*tty. godalmighty! Wth, I didnt say that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: Murray was a year 1 QB and Darnold was a year 2 QB. That's the difference. On average year 1 stats are a wash, year 2 isn't. Yeah, that seems scientific enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Wait, wasn't it you in this thread that said "so these FEW occasions don't move the needle"? Without providing numbers? Can't make this stuff up. This is his shtick as well as a few others here. It’s whatever at this point. I’ll just be here to laugh at the confusion on whether to be happy the Jets are winning or be mad that they were wrong about Darnold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, CTM said: Wth, I didnt say that He quoted me by quoting you because he has me on ignore.. I guess was the case? Odd. Otherwise the guy is just skimming thru posts and quoting whatever he sees. also odd. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: Super sh*tty, sure. I cannot wait until next season so these Darnold dumpers will find somewhere to hide. Things we said last offseason for $500, Alex. (but this year we really mean it!!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: Things we said last offseason for $500, Alex. (but this year we really mean it!!!!) Not really interesting in this back and fourth you are trying to provoke. Wasn’t your guy supposed to be a MVP or something last offseason lol 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 in Green Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: Not really interesting in this back and fourth you are trying to provoke. Wasn’t your guy supposed to be a MVP or something last offseason lol Really? That's quite a compliment to someone's perceived ability, if true... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said: Really? That's quite a compliment to someone's perceived ability, if true... lol Ala 14 in Green’s perception. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, CTM said: I don't think anyone thinks that except the clowns like Jif who are trolling but doesn't matter. My point about fandom is that dismissing it out of hand or imagining it to only be conclusive proof of Sam being a master escape artist is where fandom takes over. These stats you cherish are extremely flawed in every way shape and form are meaningless in every way shape and form. The only thing they provide is conversation. And I'd argue they're are much more deceiving than the eye ie; Dak Prescott being a top 5 QB in this league/Morstet is the best RB in the league. And now add TT to the long list of flawed stats that cant be taken seriously if it's saying Sam Darnold had the 3rd most time to throw in the NFL. You claim to watch this team every week and claim to understand Football and will sit here straight faced and say that data supports what you watched? Every silly advanced metric you post, I show a clear obvious example of why it cant be taken seriously. It's cool for conversation, its neat for someone trying to win a debate of which middling player is better than the other but it's not providing mind blowing information or anything useful at all for that matter. I dont need advanced stats to say; Sam Darnold needs to get a lot better at Quarterbacking the Football. Or, Pat Mahomes is ******* awesome. Or, Mitch Trubisky sucks. I watch Football and these things are quite obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 54 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Wait, wasn't it you in this thread that said "so these FEW occasions don't move the needle"? Without providing numbers? Can't make this stuff up. Well TT is less than 3 secs across the league... by THAT I ca DEDUCE that its few... but you know... carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 58 minutes ago, CTM said: Wth, I didnt say that SOMEONE said they were fin with Sams decision making as it is... as it is, its poretty bad... you dont get to be the 26th ranked QB by having GOOD decision making.... 27th in INT%... I dont know if i qouted within a quote... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Losmeister said: Well TT is less than 3 secs across the league... by THAT I ca DEDUCE that its few... but you know... carry on Very scientific. Yeah, I will take your word for this. You seem trustworthy. Other than the logic doesn't fit the question I asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Very scientific. Yeah, I will take your word for this. You seem trustworthy. Other than the logic doesn't fit the question I asked. fair enough. anyway, I DONT KNOW WHERE THESE EXACT NUMBERS ARE. ( Throws on the run, extended plays) DO YOU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 21 minutes ago, JiF said: And now add TT to the long list of flawed stats that cant be taken seriously if it's saying Sam Darnold had the 3rd most time to throw in the NFL. It's not saying that for I dunno the 10th time. Lets instead add it to the long list of stats that Jif doesn't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, Losmeister said: fair enough. anyway, I DONT KNOW WHERE THESE EXACT NUMBERS ARE. ( Throws on the run, extended plays) DO YOU? No, and that is kind of a point, I believe. And, where do the stats decide (or the people that are inputting them) that a pass play in a scramble is no longer a pass, but a run? One would think that differentiation would be important. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, CTM said: It's not saying that for I dunno the 10th time. Lets instead add it to the long list of stats that Jif doesn't understand. Right. The stat provided to show how much time Sam Darnold had to throw, doesnt actually mean that's how much time he has to throw. So useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, JiF said: Right. The stat provided to show how much time Sam Darnold had to throw, doesnt actually mean that's how much time he has to throw. So useful. It says it took him the third most time between snap and throwing the ball, averaged over all plays that didn't end in a sack. You said "it's saying Sam Darnold had the 3rd most time to throw in the NFL. " .. Those are not the same thing, if Brady spends all game dinking and dunking for an avg TT of 2.5 seconds, but never has anyone with in 5 feet of him all game, his TT is still 2.5 seconds. He only used 2.5 seconds, doesn't mean he didn't have more time if he wanted it, he just didn't use it. They are not equal because most throws aren't forced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 worth a perusal https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/sam-darnold/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said: According to the stat table provided in this thread, Darnold has better accuracy than Murray based on completion percentage above expectation. I pointed this out several times... that Sams stat here is middle of the pack, which is relatively encouraging... but... i fear it points out what/who he his.. a middle ofe the pack Andy Daltoin type who is dependant on his cast... Like he has so often in his time with the Bengals, Dalton looked capable when his support system allowed it. And like he has just as often, Dalton faltered when it didn’t. see.. https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/10/3/20896664/andy-dalton-cincinnati-bengals-quarterback-litmus-test we sold the farm for andy dalton 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, Losmeister said: I pointed this out several times... that Sams stat here is middle of the pack, which is relatively encouraging... but... i fear it points out what/who he his.. a middle ofe the pack Andy Daltoin type who is dependant on his cast... Like he has so often in his time with the Bengals, Dalton looked capable when his support system allowed it. And like he has just as often, Dalton faltered when it didn’t. see.. https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/10/3/20896664/andy-dalton-cincinnati-bengals-quarterback-litmus-test we sold the farm for andy dalton Only time will tell. Cherry picked stats without true definition, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, CTM said: It says it took him the third most time between snap and throwing the ball, averaged over all plays that didn't end in a sack. You said "it's saying Sam Darnold had the 3rd most time to throw in the NFL. " .. Those are not the same thing, if Brady spends all game dinking and dunking for an avg TT of 2.5 seconds, but never has anyone with in 5 feet of him all game, his TT is still 2.5 seconds. He only used 2.5 seconds, doesn't mean he didn't have more time if he wanted it, he just didn't use it. They are not equal because most throws aren't forced. I have asked this question many times in this thread, and no one has clarified the stat--How does the stat treat qbs that break out of the pocket and create their own time, aside from the protection that their line has given them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said: I have asked this question many times in this thread, and no one has clarified the stat--How does the stat treat qbs that break out of the pocket and create their own time, aside from the protection that their line has given them? How do you think ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, CTM said: How do you think ? I would think that it counts the time outside of the pocket, until the qb passes as time from snap to release. If that is in fact the case, that does not necessarily make that stat equate "whether a qb has Pressure" or not. Or time given by the o-line. It makes it more of a stat of some qbs can extend plays behind the line, others cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: I would think that it counts the time outside of the pocket, until the qb passes as time from snap to release. If that is in fact the case, that does not necessarily make that stat equate "whether a qb has Pressure" or not. Or time given by the o-line. It makes it more of a stat of some qbs can extend plays behind the line, others cannot. Or more of a stat indicating how long it takes them to make a decision and throw the ball Question: do you think it's likely that 22 yo Dahnald, with 1 hs year and 2 college years experiance, in his second abbreviated pro year, and third offensive system in as many years is going to be faster at decision making or slower than a vet whose been in the same system for years If it's the former, what exactly are you arguing about, if it's the latter can you introduce me to your dealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Only time will tell. Cherry picked stats without true definition, not so much. Am an ardent opponent to cherry picked stats... thats why I go with the comprehensive rating or QBR... mainly at least, and so far... poor... a 1st rnd 6trh picked and THREE 2nd rnders for this? thats a crap return so far. you invest that for the guy that changes the odd for wins and losses... erm Watson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: I have asked this question many times in this thread, and no one has clarified the stat--How does the stat treat qbs that break out of the pocket and create their own time, aside from the protection that their line has given them? its calcualtes the time of snap to release, all throws. THATS why i kept saying this is a neglible amount of throws over teh whole seaosn, the reason that TT is so low across the league. sure, a few splash plays are made. but you dont get a 8 play drive with 6 of these plays in a 2 minute drill... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, CTM said: Or more of a stat indicating how long it takes them to make a decision and throw the ball Question: do you think it's likely that 22 yo Dahnald, with 1 hs year and 2 college years experiance, in his second abbreviated pro year, and third offensive system in as many years is going to be faster at decision making or slower than a vet whose been in the same system for years If it's the former, what exactly are you arguing about, if it's the latter can you introduce me to your dealer? Yes, I would think that it takes a younger qb, especially in a new system will take a split second longer to create his reads and downfield decision. BUT, that is not what I thought that the stat was brought into this conversation for. Supposedly, as I read intent, it was to show, "hey Darnold is not pressured with his o-line", look at how long he has to throw the ball" It is not that at all. And, I asked for clarification on the stat, which no one seems to be able to give. I contend that it also favors qbs that extend plays behind the line, thus giving them more release time. Really, I think anyone that makes football judgements on a few simple stats (especially without understanding the criteria), are quite arbitrary and silly. But that is just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Threads like these remind me of early 2011 when all the eye testes mocked the dropped int stat that Sanchez lead the league in for 2010. Fake, bogus. Bs .. good times. Then of course he was top 5 in the league in INT's the following 2 seasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Losmeister said: its calcualtes the time of snap to release, all throws. THATS why i kept saying this is a neglible amount of throws over teh whole seaosn, the reason that TT is so low across the league. sure, a few splash plays are made. but you dont get a 8 play drive with 6 of these plays in a 2 minute drill... So then, qbs that beak out of the pocket have more time to throw. Amazing. That does not equate to being given great pass protection, which some seem to allude to here. That Darnold did not face pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, CTM said: Threads like these remind me of early 2011 when all the eye testes mocked the dropped int stat that Sanchez lead the league in for 2010. Fake, bogus. Bs .. good times. Then of course he was top 5 in the league in INT's the following 2 seasons If only everyone agreed to think and saw things the same way. World would be so much simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: BUT, that is not what I thought that the stat was brought into this conversation for. Supposedly, as I read intent, it was to show, "hey Darnold is not pressured with his o-line", look at how long he has to throw the ball" I brought it into the conversation and it was specifically to support the notion that sacks are very much a QB stat too. Sacks are what was used to support the historically bad oline narrative 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, CTM said: I brought it into the conversation and it was specifically to support the notion that sacks are very much a QB stat too. Sacks are what was used to support the historically bad oline narrative They can be. Every football play is not the same, of course. To always try to rationalize only with numbers can lead to faulty conclusions. Especially for those that do not know the context of the numbers. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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