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How much more does Darnold step up his game


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12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

<Tom Brady plays like Luke Falk against the Titans and gets unceremoniously bounced from the playoffs by the Titans>
 

Analysis: No QB, no matter how great, could overcome this much turnover in the offensive line and receiving departments!

 

<Chuma Edoga escorts another pass rusher directly into Sam Darnold’s chest as Darnold dares to wait three seconds for Robbie Anderson—who is getting twisted up like a ballon animal by a 5’9”, 175 lb corner—to get open on a pattern he designed himself, called a “weed route.”>
 

Analysis: Sam Darnold just doesn’t have it, fokls 

If anyone was actually making either of those points you'd have yourself a nice little W there ruprhect

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44 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Chuma Edoga escorts another pass rusher directly into Sam Darnold’s chest as Darnold dares to wait three seconds for Robbie Anderson—who is getting twisted up like a ballon animal by a 5’9”, 175 lb corner—to get open on a pattern he designed himself, called a “weed route.”>
 

Analysis: Sam Darnold just doesn’t have it, fokls 

This was really funny. 

The Robby getting mauled part made me spill coffee I was laughing so hard...

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The best part of this thread is CTM using completely faulty data calling it  "concrete evidence" spinning in every which way possible to fit his narrative that Sam Darnold sucks and laughing at the "eye testers" (who have come to the same conclusion as him ie; Sam Darnold needs to get better at Football).  However, his position is that despite all the fancy data that says Sam Darnold sucks, he wants the Jets to get better around him.  Why would he want these things if all his beloved advanced metrics data hooky pokey malarkey that he holds so dear to his heart says Sam sucks?

Wait for it, wait for it, wait for it....

It's the eye test!!!  His eyes are telling him things his data doesnt support and therefore, he wants to see Sam with better talent around him.  

Cant make this sh*t up. 

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The only QB's that could realistically succeed under the circumstances dealt to Darnold last year, are probably the HoF caliver guys who can throw on the run and manipulate the pocket like Wilson, Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson....etc. 

The Oline has been so awful, guys like Brady or Brees who aren't as mobile, would have been on IR by week 4.

Is it not obvious that Darnold is talented and Jets fans should be excited simply by watching the Jets when Siemien, or Falk were in his place. It was night and day difference, couldn't even move the ball with the same Offense.

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56 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

<Tom Brady plays like Luke Falk against the Titans and gets unceremoniously bounced from the playoffs by the Titans>
 

Analysis: No QB, no matter how great, could overcome this much turnover in the offensive line and receiving departments!

 

<Chuma Edoga escorts another pass rusher directly into Sam Darnold’s chest as Darnold dares to wait three seconds for Robbie Anderson—who is getting twisted up like a ballon animal by a 5’9”, 175 lb corner—to get open on a pattern he designed himself, called a “weed route.”>
 

Analysis: Sam Darnold just doesn’t have it, fokls 

Did you have a stopwatch in hand to make sure it was 3 seconds on that play?  

 

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8 minutes ago, JiF said:

The best part of this thread is CTM using completely faulty data calling it  "concrete evidence" spinning in every which way possible to fit his narrative that Sam Darnold sucks and laughing at the "eye testers" (who have come to the same conclusion as him ie; Sam Darnold needs to get better at Football).  However, his position is that despite all the fancy data that says Sam Darnold sucks, he wants the Jets to get better around him.  Why would he want these things if all his beloved advanced metrics data hooky pokey malarkey that he holds so dear to his heart says Sam sucks?

Wait for it, wait for it, wait for it....

It's the eye test!!!  His eyes are telling him things his data doesnt support and therefore, he wants to see Sam with better talent around him.  

Cant make this sh*t up. 

//not worth it

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24 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said:

The only QB's that could realistically succeed under the circumstances dealt to Darnold last year, are probably the HoF caliver guys who can throw on the run and manipulate the pocket like Wilson, Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson....etc. 

The Oline has been so awful, guys like Brady or Brees who aren't as mobile, would have been on IR by week 4.

Is it not obvious that Darnold is talented and Jets fans should be excited simply by watching the Jets when Siemien, or Falk were in his place. It was night and day difference, couldn't even move the ball with the same Offense.

Trevor Siemian played about 35 seconds last year before Myles Garrett blew him up. Falk was a practice squad player. Gase wouldn’t even let him get reps with the first string while Darnold was trying to come back from his mono episode.

Nobody is saying Darnold is Falk-like. Why are so many of you comforted by the fact Sam performed better then him?

 

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12 hours ago, slimjasi said:

You don't need numbers to know the guy is above average at throwing on the run. 

Watch the games. 

Or, you know, read any scouting report on him ever. 

Yeah, you do. why is his completion percentage so low, compared to league wide? 

You realize AVERAGE IS A NUMBER , or dont you?

What does the AVERAGE QB do when throwing on the run? Cos saying he is above average is comparing him to other QBs.

YOu love the Jets and Sam so when he makes a play on teh run you automatically go into " thats a throw that few can make" mode.

His completions percentage above expected is middling.... or average.

I DID watch most of the games...  ( no i didnt watch jaxonville)

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2 hours ago, CTM said:

I see a hearty coalition of the stupid is forming

Speaking of stupidity in this thread, remember when you originally introduced TT in this thread as a metric which proved that Sam processes information slow because the high TT + ‘sacks are a QB stat’ meant the Jets OL was actually giving Sam time to throw but he sucks?? Remember? And then remember when I pointed out that the last two league MVPs had identical TTs to Sam??? Yea. That was stupid. 

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The biggest shame of the 2018-2019 Jets is we still don't have anything close to a consensus regarding what Darnold can or cannot be. Coming up, third season in a row with the exact same unfulfilled goal of the prior two: figure out what we have--or don't have--in Darnold.

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

The best part of this thread is CTM using completely faulty data calling it  "concrete evidence" spinning in every which way possible to fit his narrative that Sam Darnold sucks and laughing at the "eye testers" (who have come to the same conclusion as him ie; Sam Darnold needs to get better at Football).  However, his position is that despite all the fancy data that says Sam Darnold sucks, he wants the Jets to get better around him.  Why would he want these things if all his beloved advanced metrics data hooky pokey malarkey that he holds so dear to his heart says Sam sucks?

Wait for it, wait for it, wait for it....

It's the eye test!!!  His eyes are telling him things his data doesnt support and therefore, he wants to see Sam with better talent around him.  

Cant make this sh*t up. 

Eye Teste****!! Get it right!! Don’t you see how clever he is by making fun of you by mispelling a word!

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9 minutes ago, jgb said:

The biggest shame of the 2018-2019 Jets is we still don't have anything close to a consensus regarding what Darnold can or cannot be. Coming up: third season in a row with the exact same unfulfilled goal of the prior two: figure out what we have--or don't have--in Darnold.

The biggest shame of 2019 was hiring a terrible HC and letting him bring in absolute nobodies at OC & QBC to help develop a young and incredibly raw QB, and then putting that QB behind the worst OL I’ve seen in years to execute sh*tty game plans and terrible play calls. That was literally worst case scenario with a potential FQB, and the Jets accomplished it. 

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21 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Eye Teste****!! Get it right!! Don’t you see how clever he is by making fun of you by mispelling a word!

Thanks! I do enjoy it, particularly when the same person corrects me over and over, greenwhichjets fan

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22 minutes ago, jgb said:

The biggest shame of the 2018-2019 Jets is we still don't have anything close to a consensus regarding what Darnold can or cannot be. Coming up, third season in a row with the exact same unfulfilled goal of the prior two: figure out what we have--or don't have--in Darnold.

i think we have a pretty good idea that hes a talented but raw guy that flashed enticing skills particularly when improvising but has a lot of room for growth in running an offense on schedule and within it's structure.

Where I diverge is that I think Darnold would be pretty close to that same guy today even with better talent around him. 

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10 minutes ago, CTM said:

 

Where I diverge is that I think Darnold would be pretty close to that same guy today even with better talent around him. 

How long before the “sure, we upgraded the OL positions, but it’s going to take a few years before everything gels...” stuff begins?

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8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Some dude watching a game with a stopwatch who blogs about it = concrete evidence.

lmfao

Good grief dude. You don't know what you are talking about.

TT is coming from nfl next gen stats, NFL as in the league. And it's powered buy AWS via rfid tags. i mean honestly you couldn't appear more clueless if you were trying.

 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-game/technology/nfl-next-gen-stats/

Continuing to balance innovation with tradition, the NFL has expanded its use of player and ball tracking to capture real-time data for every player — on every play, anywhere on the field.
next-gen-stats-logo.png?mode=max&width=9

These “Next Gen Stats” — developed in partnership with Zebra Technologies and Wilson Sporting Goods — provide clubs with data to analyze trends and player performance, while enhancing the fan experience in-stadium, online and during game telecasts.

“We have a rich history of innovation in the game of football and working closely with the NFL to advance and enhance the game for players and fans alike,” said Kevin Murphy, general manager of team sports at Wilson.

The tracking process begins in the summer, when all pads are tagged with radio-frequency identification (RFID) chips. RFID tags are embedded on every player, official, game ball, pylon and first down chain. Each stadium has between 20 to 30 ultra-wide band receivers throughout the venue to capture the data.

Explore NFL Next Gen Stats

Altogether, an estimated 250 devices are in a venue for any given game. Each week during the season, player tracking representatives at every stadium confirm that all tracking systems are functioning properly.

The NFL worked closely with team equipment managers to determine the best size and location for the tags in the shoulder pads. Game balls must adhere to the NFL’s specifications, and Wilson, the Competition Committee and NFL quarterbacks tested different tracking devices to ensure that the chips would not impact the flight of the ball.

The tracking system captures player data like location, speed, distance traveled and acceleration at a rate of 10 times per second, and charts individual movements within inches. Raw data is provided to all 32 clubs, giving each team the flexibility to develop custom analytics and proprietary statistics.

New performance measures derived from Next Gen Stats data include: 

  • Time to throw — the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer.
  • Average separation — distance measured between a wide receiver/tight end and the nearest defender at the time of catch or incompletion.
  • Aggressiveness — the amount of passing attempts a quarterback makes into tight coverage (where there is a defender within 1 yard or less of the receiver at the time of completion or incompletion).

Visit the Next Gen Stats glossary for a full overview.

The NFL’s Next Gen Stats technology wasn’t built overnight. The tracking process and data is the result of years of testing between the league, Zebra and Wilson. Here is a quick timeline of how the technology has progressed.
 
NFL Next Gen Stats
 

 

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11 minutes ago, CTM said:

i think we have a pretty good idea that hes a talented but raw guy that flashed enticing skills particularly when improvising but has a lot of room for growth in running an offense on schedule and within it's structure.

Where I diverge is that I think Darnold would be pretty close to that same guy today even with better talent around him. 

That is my fear. Of course, there is a chance I am wrong. I have hope but that's basically what it is.

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Just now, jgb said:

That is my fear. Of course, there is a chance I am wrong. I have hope but that's basically what it is.

why fear it? This was always likely to happen. Everything people tout as a positive for Darnold (his age, lack of experience) all are very predictive of him struggling with the parts of the job that require 1000's hours and repetitions to master. 

What the jets need to do a better job of is creating an environment where the limited time he does have to improve is used as efficiently as possible. That is where we've failed so far. 

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10 minutes ago, CTM said:

why fear it? This was always likely to happen. Everything people tout as a positive for Darnold (his age, lack of experience) all are very predictive of him struggling with the parts of the job that require 1000's hours and repetitions to master. 

What the jets need to do a better job of is creating an environment where the limited time he does have to improve is used as efficiently as possible. That is where we've failed so far. 

My fear is that he'll basically be the same guy with a better supporting cast. And that we have and will waste years coming to that conclusion.

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1 hour ago, CTM said:

Good grief dude. You don't know what you are talking about.

TT is coming from nfl next gen stats, NFL as in the league. And it's powered buy AWS via rfid tags. i mean honestly you couldn't appear more clueless if you were trying.

On page 2 of this thread, TT was measured by a man with a stopwatch and now it's suddenly microchips in Football and pads that are collecting this crucial data.  On page 2, it was used to prove that Sam Darnold had the 3rd most time to throw and it was his fault that the OL gave up so much pressure and his fault he took so many sacks.  It then evolved into,  how long before he "processes" lol and releases the ball, which literally tells you nothing at all of any significance and many people shared why.  Yet, you've ignored all the reasons it's flaw and hurled insults.  You then said now but really guys, its used to show how he's a slow processor while again ignoring the variables that factor into his measurement of time to throw. Meanwhile, the last 2 MVP's share the same measurement and this stat is barely any different for veteran guys like; Rodgers, Cousins, Tannehill, Prescott, etc.  who apparently are all slow processors but are darlings per your other favorite dvyooarya stat.

You can call me stupid and clueless and hate da math and eyes testes all the other neat insults you want to use to make it seem like I'm not following but I see and read everything you type and understand it fully.  I understand it to be fully flawed and anytime it's shoved in your face and proven it's flawed, you say, "eye testes!!!!".  And the irony of it all, is that you're spitting in the face of all your advanced metrics and using the "eye testes" to say that you have in faith in Sam Darnold and want to see him with more talent around him.

Again, cant make this sh*t up.

 

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38 minutes ago, JiF said:

You can call me stupid and clueless and hate da math and eyes testes all the other neat insults you want to use to make it seem like I'm not following but I see and read everything you type and understand it fully.  I understand it to be fully flawed and anytime it's shoved in your face and proven it's flawed, you say, "eye testes!!!!".  And the irony of it all, is that you're spitting in the face of all your advanced metrics and using the "eye testes" to say that you have in faith in Sam Darnold and want to see him with more talent around him.

I don't know who said anything about a stop watch, if it was derpina than 1) shame on him for saying it and you for listening to him and 2) take it up with him

How was anything "proven" to be flawed that i said in this thread? Serious question

1) Darnold played a string of really bad defenses [ true ]

2) Darnold shows up as one of the slower to release the ball based on NFL next gen stats [ true ]

3) Darnold's DVOA and DYAR where lower this year than last year [ true ]

you don't like DVOA, i get it. but you've proven exactly nothing about it by any criteria of note. 

As to your statement about irony, it seems you are taking far too much of a black and white position.  This isn't an either or proposition, Darnold can be bad AND the stats that say he's bad can be accurate  AND he can have shown potential AND we can agree that he'd have increased chance of developing into a FQB with better talent around him

4 things

all true

no contradictions

I really don't know what you are going on about.

 

 

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1 minute ago, CTM said:

I don't know who said anything about a stop watch, if it was derpina than 1) shame on him for saying it and you for listening to him and 2) take it up with him

How was anything "proven" to be flawed that i said in this thread? Serious question

1) Darnold played a string of really bad defenses [ true ]

2) Darnold shows up as one of the slower to release the ball based on NFL next gen stats [ true ]

3) Darnold's DVOA and DYAR where lower this year than last year [ true ]

you don't like DVOA, i get it. but you've proven exactly nothing about it by any criteria of note. 

As to your statement about irony, it seems you are taking far too much of a black and white position.  This isn't an either or proposition, Darnold can be bad AND the stats that say he's bad can be accurate  AND he can have shown potential AND we can agree that he'd have increased chance of developing into a FQB with better talent around him

4 things

all true

no contradictions

I really don't know what you are going on about.

 

 

1) You used to it demean his performance as if every QB in the league doesnt face good and bad teams.  

2) This is stupid and you've been told why yet you refuse to acknowledge it.

3) DVOA/DVYA is completely meaningless and provides zero value to anything other than splitting hairs in a debate on the interwebz

I'm going on because your stats dont tell you anything we dont already know and because your yelling at all the "eye testes" while ultimately landing to a conclusion driven by your "eye testes".

 

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1 hour ago, CTM said:

What the jets need to do a better job of is creating an environment where the limited time he does have to improve is used as efficiently as possible. That is where we've failed so far. 

 

2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

The biggest shame of 2019 was hiring a terrible HC and letting him bring in absolute nobodies at OC & QBC to help develop a young and incredibly raw QB, and then putting that QB behind the worst OL I’ve seen in years to execute sh*tty game plans and terrible play calls. That was literally worst case scenario with a potential FQB, and the Jets accomplished it. 

Last place teams who fire their head coaches, can their GM’s, and clean house are the ones who get all the young franchise quarterbacks.  The Jets didn’t put Darnold in a bad situation; they were a bad situation by definition. This year we took steps to correct that by bringing in a good coaching staff and the opportunity was derailed by unprecedented injuries. The lack of quit and the 6-2 finish is a positive sign.  

The drama you are creating is something we would consider next year if the Jets stay healthy and don’t take steps forward. Talking about this now as if Darnold didn’t have two playbooks and didn’t have two head coaches and didn’t have a myriad of roster injuries before age 22 is a waste of your time and ours.  Darnold got some good experience, showed growth potential, and is ready to come out swinging in a comfortable system that he will master as the offseason progresses.  Have a little faith.  Turn off the paranoia.  There’s a time to overreact. This isn’t it. 

SAR I

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1 hour ago, CTM said:

What the jets need to do a better job of is creating an environment where the limited time he does have to improve is used as efficiently as possible. That is where we've failed so far. 

I get this.

However, there seems a built in presumption that HE WILL CERTAINLY IMPROVE, almost no matter what...

which is something we cannot know...

I mean, it wouldnt surprise me if he had a couple/few stand out seasons...      but I am expecting him to be mostly middle of the pack based on what I've seen so far..,.

 

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

1) You used to it demean his performance as if every QB in the league doesnt face good and bad teams.  

2) This is stupid and you've been told why yet you refuse to acknowledge it.

3) DVOA/DVYA is completely meaningless and provides zero value to anything other than splitting hairs in a debate on the interwebz

I'm going on because your stats dont tell you anything we dont already know and because your yelling at all the "eye testes" while ultimately landing to a conclusion driven by your "eye testes".

 

1) He faced 5 of the worst defenses in 8 games and 1 team resting starters. "Every qb" doesn't get a run like that and it's why chuckleheads like SAR made how many posts  all season about how 1-4 gets us to 10-6 or whatever he was saying. The back 1/2 of our schedule was ridiculously soft.

2) You on numerous occasions confused this stat as an offensive line stat, not a QB stat. I refuse to acknowledge arguments made by people who refuse to deal with the statistic in a realistic way

3) Yeah I mean that is just nonsense. I've made money using DVOA to find soft lines and am familiar with how and why they built it the way they did. It has more statistical rigor than any other stat our there and is certainly superior to your eye testes

And again, the stats say Darnold is bad. I think Darnold is bad. IBut Darnold is also young and super inexperianced, thus he has lots of room to improve. How is this complicated? ffs It is nico and club who try and say the stats are wrong and Darnolds actually very good.

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