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Apache 51

Does Joe Burrow pull an Elway/Eli?

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I heard awhile back his father say he would go wherever he was picked, even if it is Cincy. What will he do? What would you do?

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Seems like there are a lot of outside sources suggesting he do exactly that. Carson Palmer being a biggie. 

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It would suck so hard to tank for a # 1 pick just to find out the top QB in the draft doesn't want to play for you.  I mean what do you do then?  Trade down then try again next year?

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It would suck so hard to tank for a # 1 pick just to find out the top QB in the draft doesn't want to play for you.  I mean what do you do then?  Trade down then try again next year?

Maybe not tank.

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It would suck so hard to tank for a # 1 pick just to find out the top QB in the draft doesn't want to play for you.  I mean what do you do then?  Trade down then try again next year?

Time to join the XFL-logo.jpg

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2 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Maybe not tank.

They didn't really have a choice.  They didn't purposely tank.  They accidentally tanked.  

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The NFL needs a rule than prospects who refuse to go to the team that drafts them become inelligible for five years and must then re-apply to be drafted.

JMO, the draft doesn't work when players start picking where they want to go (and be assured, if players DO start picking where they go, the NYJ are amongst those who WILL lose out).

That might effect the league's antitrust exemption.

The owners already have way to much power over the players, and you're proposing more? Imagine being the most valuable player in college football and your reward is being assigned to the worst team in the NFL. Even with the financial compensation that comes with that, that's no picnic. If Joe Burrow sees Cincinnati as a burial ground, he'd be smart to do everything in his power to land himself somewhere else. 

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3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The NFL needs a rule than prospects who refuse to go to the team that drafts them become inelligible for five years and must then re-apply to be drafted.

JMO, the draft doesn't work when players start picking where they want to go (and be assured, if players DO start picking where they go, the NYJ are amongst those who WILL lose out).

There's like 1 player every 15 hours that has the leverage to do it, so it's really not an issue. It is still a huge risk for the player too. Personally I think Eli would have played for San Diego but he had enough leverage to do it. Elway was considered at the time the best QB prospect ever, and Burrow us coming off the best CFB season for a QB ever  All that said, i don't be does it, and I am not sure he is a guaranteed star either 

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15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The NFL needs a rule than prospects who refuse to go to the team that drafts them become inelligible for five years and must then re-apply to be drafted.

JMO, the draft doesn't work when players start picking where they want to go (and be assured, if players DO start picking where they go, the NYJ are amongst those who WILL lose out).

The Jets losing out on players could be the kick in the rear end ownership needs. The draft is essential to the league, but there are ownership groups who prioritize other things over winning and players recognize this. It's hard to blame the players who do have leverage. Especially with the Bengals.

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The interesting part of this to me is if you are hoping to avoid the Bengals, who exactly are you eyeing as your dance partner?  Dolphins?  Lions?  Chargers?  

The Bengals obviously don't have a great franchise history, but over the last 10-15 years, the Bengals are the best of the bunch.  Chargers would be my guess since they offer the best supporting cast on offense, but still far from an ideal situation there.

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Correct me if I’m wrong but if the bengals play hardball burrow is ****ed 

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1 minute ago, nico002 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but if the bengals play hardball burrow is ****ed 

How so?  No team wants to burn a # 1 overall pick on a guy who doesn't want to be there.  They'd either trade down or draft Burrow and trade him after.

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37 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The NFL needs a rule than prospects who refuse to go to the team that drafts them become inelligible for five years and must then re-apply to be drafted.

JMO, the draft doesn't work when players start picking where they want to go (and be assured, if players DO start picking where they go, the NYJ are amongst those who WILL lose out).

I agree. However, obviously it's great and all that an honor, privilege etc. but I would not want to go to Cincy. Look how it worked out for Manning and Elway.

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16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How so?  No team wants to burn a # 1 overall pick on a guy who doesn't want to be there.  They'd either trade down or draft Burrow and trade him after.

Do you think he is as good as Manning or Elway coming out?

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1 minute ago, Apache 51 said:

Do you think he is as good as Manning or Elway coming out?

Hell no, unless you're talking about Eli.    

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Hell no, unless you're talking about Eli.    

I don't think so either. He will go to Cincy.

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46 minutes ago, slats said:

That might effect the league's antitrust exemption.

It certainly might.  Although I doubt it.

More likely would be issues with the Union, but as they have shown, they care most about current members, not pre-members or retired members.

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The owners already have way to much power over the players, and you're proposing more?

I'm proposing a rule that would eliminate player nullification of the Draft process.  

I'll add that I do not agree that the Owners have "too much power" over the players.  Today they have the least amount of power in the history of the league, and it's quite debatable if the product of NFL football has been improved by all the gains made by the Players.

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Imagine being the most valuable player in college football and your reward is being assigned to the worst team in the NFL.  Even with the financial compensation that comes with that, that's no picnic. If Joe Burrow sees Cincinnati as a burial ground, he'd be smart to do everything in his power to land himself somewhere else. 

And I'm suggesting that he should have absolutely no power whatsoever to "land himself somewhere else".  An ability of a player to do so effectively breaks the draft system in a fatal way.  Players have their freedom when they become Free Agents, not as draft picks.

Lets be clear, do you REALLY think Sam Darnold wanted to come to the NY Jets?  Please don;t make me laugh with that kind of naivety.  If Sam Darnold had power over where he went in the draft via a de facto veto power over who picks him, he's not a NY Jet today.  He's somewhere on the west coast.

Either you have a draft system, or you don't.  If you do, players cannot be permitted to nullify that system without meaningful penalty.  

If we want players to have so much more power, why not make every player a free agent every year?  Give all the power to the players!  Eliminate the draft too, all college players simply become free agents!  What a GREAT product such a free-makret league would be!  Hell, we can kill the salary cap too, right?  Too limiting of players earning potential!  We'll name the new league the Right Wing Free Market Capitalist Football League (RWFMCFL), how could it go wrong!

 

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

Either you have a draft system, or you don't.  If you do, players cannot be permitted to nullify that system without meaningful penalty.

 

Exactly.

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4 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

I don't think so either. He will go to Cincy.

That's not really relevant.  It doesn't matter if he's the next Elway or if anyone else thinks he is.  If he's the top QB in the class, he has the leverage over the Bengals.  

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This is nothing more than the NFL trying to drum up drama for the first pick to keep the beginning of the draft interesting.

This is the most clear cut first overall pick in years and the NFL does not want the Bengals or Burrow tipping their hand. 

They ran into this many moons ago and before we knew it, everyone knew the first 3 or 4 picks before they happened basically. 

It's a show. They gotta keep it suspenseful. 

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52 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

They didn't really have a choice.  They didn't purposely tank.  They accidentally tanked.  

Then it's not called tanking. It's just called sucking.

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's not really relevant.  It doesn't matter if he's the next Elway or if anyone else thinks he is.  If he's the top QB in the class, he has the leverage over the Bengals.  

Right. I wanted to see what you thought using them as a comparison.

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38 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

Do you think he is as good as Manning or Elway coming out?

No. And I don't think he is going to be as good as Justin Herbert, either.  Any team that takes Burrow or Tua over Herbert is going to wind up kicking themselves in the arse... 

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So hypothetical scenario.  A likely #1 pick makes it clear he wants to live near a sick family member (assume this is well-documented, not a sham).  The #1 team in the draft is faced with a difficult decision.  Draft the kid and face the potential PR backlash, or maybe trade the pick under duress like SD did with the NYG (in a roundabout but effectively the same manner).

In no business outside of major sports, can an entire industry dictate what city you have to live in.  Sure some industries are concentrated in one or two cities, but you know that well ahead of getting involved.  But if you are becoming a professional football (or Basketball, etc.) player, you don't have another option like switching companies or even industries and you can't know where you will be forced to live until shortly before you start your career. 

I completely get how essential this is to maintain some semblance of competitive balance, but I can see the other side as well.  I can imagine that this may get tested more aggressively at some point in the future and it will be interesting to see if someone is able to mount an effective challenge.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

 

If we want players to have so much more power, why not make every player a free agent every year?  Give all the power to the players!  Eliminate the draft too, all college players simply become free agents!  What a GREAT product such a free-makret league would be!  Hell, we can kill the salary cap too, right?  Too limiting of players earning potential!  We'll name the new league the Right Wing Free Market Capitalist Football League (RWFMCFL), how could it go wrong!

 

Welcome to the modern-day NBA.  Personally, I think it has made that league far worse for fans.  The players love it but everyone else lost out.  I would go as far as to say it's a complete farce now.

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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

So hypothetical scenario.  A likely #1 pick makes it clear he wants to live near a sick family member (assume this is well-documented, not a sham).  The #1 team in the draft is faced with a difficult decision.  Draft the kid and face the potential PR backlash, or maybe trade the pick under duress like SD did with the NYG (in a roundabout but effectively the same manner).

In no business outside of major sports, can an entire industry dictate what city you have to live in.  Sure some industries are concentrated in one or two cities, but you know that well ahead of getting involved.  But if you are becoming a professional football (or Basketball, etc.) player, you don't have another option like switching companies or even industries and you can't know where you will be forced to live until shortly before you start your career. 

I completely get how essential this is to maintain some semblance of competitive balance, but I can see the other side as well.  I can imagine that this may get tested more aggressively at some point in the future and it will be interesting to see if someone is able to mount an effective challenge.

Counter Argument:  No professional athlete is required to live in the city in which they play.

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12 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Counter Argument:  No professional athlete is required to live in the city in which they play.

True, but if you play for CIN, you can't live in LA from Aug-Jan.  

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20 minutes ago, nycdan said:

True, but if you play for CIN, you can't live in LA from Aug-Jan.  

Darnold said on his video with Sanchez that he does not really experience living in NY/NJ because he is working all the time.   I can believe that, other than a few Sunday home victory parties (where Darnold supposedly overconsumed) and whatever he did before/during pre-season to get himeself mono.

The players tend to tolerate playing in Green Bay, which must be cold and boring for a typical NFL player.  

An NFL player should focus on the season from July-January and then move to California or Florida for the rest of the year.   That is what I would do.  

But maybe there is too much fun in LA or Miami for an NFL player for those teams to be any good.  

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