The hidden elephant in the draft room

[JohnnyLV]

Like everyone else I am very pleased with the fact that Mac is gone, and I think Douglas is a completely different level of GM potentially in terms of experience and capability.

But here is what worries me and what nobody is discussing:

We still have the same scouting department

Neither Idzik or Mac made any significant changes to the scouting department primarily scout standpoint.

At the end of the day we hope Douglas will be better at evaluating talent, and choosing both the right players in the draft and in pro personal moves, but much of that still starts with the evaluations of the scouts in the field.

Douglas has said that he wants to change the language of the scouting department so that college and pro players are evaluated equally but that will take time to implement and we have not seen much movement in scouting and likely won't until after this first draft.

Remember this is a scouting department that signed off on Polite, Hackenburg and a litany of others as draftable prospects. A staff that rated Adams higher than Watson and Mahomes. Sure Mac made those choices but does anyone really believe they were completely in a vaccuum?

I am really concerned that our entire player evaluation scheme is flawed and even with a better GM the inputs he gets will lead to making bad draft decisions again.

 

 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

Didn't Gase start firing scouts like the day he arrived?

[TMAC]

I have thought a lot about this as well.  I would have thought that Joe Douglas would clean house and replace the scouting staff with new people, if possible.  What's going on here?  

[SAR I]

I want the truth!

SAR I

[Augustiniak]

could it be that mccagnan was that bad, that he ignored what his scouts advised?

[section314]

Douglass probably made some changes, and may have kept some guys too. He's been around, sounds like he worked hard on his way up, so probably knows good scouts/ evaluators when he sees them. Some guys that were on staff he may have kept because he knows their talent. Remember, it sounds like Macc pretty much was a one man show during the whole draft process so I doubt he really put a ton of faith in what the scouts, or coaches, felt, unless they were in virtual agreement with him.

[section314]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I want the truth!

SAR I

"You want me in that draft room, you need me in that draft room."

[Jimmy 2 Times]

Douglas didn’t do the deep dive into this year’s prospects with Philly, but I guarantee you he already had a thick scouting report on the big names.

 

 I trust he’ll be ok.

[kdels62]

Macc revamped the scouting department, it didn't make us better. Idzik didn't change much. Gase fired some scouts. I think there was an article about how Joe Douglas was gonna change the priorities and reporting methods of the scouts. So, because I have no idea how any of this actually works, worrying about it seems premature. 

[Rolloffjet]

13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I want the truth!

SAR I

[nico002]

I thought we cleaned house there- facts?

[New York Mick]

For minute I thought my first wife was going. 

[Scoop24]

There where definitely changes made. Cause giving him bigger budget so he could pay his guys to join the scouting department was part of his deal to sign here. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

5 minutes ago, nico002 said:

I thought we cleaned house there- facts?

No. There’s still left overs. There’s guys there now that will be gone after this. 

[SAR I]

Joe Douglas has replaced Mike Maccagnan as the New York Jets general manager, but he isn’t the only major change in their front office.

The New York Jets stunned some fans when they suddenly parted ways with former general manager Mike Maccagnan. They then signed Joe Douglas to lead their front office. However, Douglas is just one of a bunch of new faces in the Jets front office.

Joe Douglas - General Manager

Twenty years ago, Joe Douglas went on his first NFL job interview. He came to Florham Park to interview with the Jets for an entry-level scouting position. Douglas, at the time, a student at Richmond University, knew he wasn’t going to play in the NFL. The former offensive lineman knew he wanted to continue his career in football, so he sought out a scouting position. In 1999, the Jets were run by Bill Parcels, who turned Douglas away.

Douglas would interview for one other team, the Baltimore Ravens. The Ravens too turned Douglas away, but with a caveat. They were interested in him but said he needed more experience. In response, Douglas joined the coaching staff at Richmond. One year later, Ozzie Newsome gave Douglas his first NFL job.

Douglas worked in Baltimore for 14 years. He held every manner of college scouting jobs the Ravens had. He worked hand-in-hand with now-Ravens general manager Eric DeCosta for years. Douglas famously pushed the Ravens hard to draft Marshall Yanda, a move that worked out tremendously. However, Douglas never got the opportunity to run the college scouting department in Baltimore. In 2015, he finally received that opportunity.

The Chicago Bears came calling for Douglas that year. Their new general manager Ryan Pace wanted to name Douglas their Director of College Scouting. Douglas decided that the opportunity to run his own department was too good for him to turn down. He left Baltimore for Chicago. It was there that Douglas met Adam Gase and the two developed a good working relationship. Douglas’s time in Chicago was short-lived.

In 2016, the Philadelphia Eagles experienced massive turnover in the front office. Chip Kelly had been fired and Howie Roseman was reinstated as the general manager. Roseman needed a trusty right-hand man to ensure that he never lost that job again. He turned to Chicago and came calling for Douglas. Thus, Douglas left Chicago and joined Roseman in Philly to become his assistant general manager. While there, Douglas was instrumental in the Eagles building their 2017 Super Bowl team.

After just two years in Philly, Douglas became one of the hottest general manager candidates in football. After the draft, the Jets came calling. They wanted Douglas to replace Mike Maccagnan. It took 20 years, but Douglas now finally leads the Jets front office.

Rex Hogan - Assistant General Manager

Rex Hogan got his first job in the NFL in 2003 with the Bears working under longtime Bears general manager Jerry Angelo. He would work as an entry-level scout with them until Angelo was fired in 2012. When Phil Emery replaced Angelo, he promoted Hogan to national scout. That means he went from scouting specific schools or regions to scouting players all across the country. He would stay in that position until Emery was fired in 2015.

At that time, the Bears hired Ryan Pace, and he wanted to put his own guys in those high-level scouting jobs. Mike Maccagnan and the Jets capitalized giving Hogan a promotion to Director of College Scouting. He would be with the Jets for only one draft before leaving for another promotion. This time, it was in Indianapolis with new general manager Chris Ballard.

When Joe Douglas took over the Jets job he knew he was going to need to surround himself with the best people. Rumors were that he wanted to follow Ballard’s model of creating a scouting powerhouse in his front office. He targeted Hogan early on in his search and offered him his third promotion in five years. This time, naming him assistant general manager. Hogan is a name on the rise, and it’s possible he’s only here for a short while before he gets a general manager call of his own.

Phil Savage - Senior Advisor

Phil Savage began his NFL career in 1993 with the Cleveland Browns. He was hired as an entry-level scout by then-Browns head coach and general manager Bill Belichick. After only two years, Savage had earned a promotion to national scout. In 1996, Browns owner Art Modell moved the team to Baltimore and renamed them the Ravens.

At that time, Belichick was fired and was replaced as general manager by Ozzie Newsome. One of the first things Newsome did as the Ravens general manager was to promote the quick-rising Savage to Director of College Scouting. It was there that Savage interviewed a young Joe Douglas and recommended him to Newsome.

Douglas worked directly under Savage until 2002 when Savage earned yet another promotion to Director of Player Personnel. At that point, Savage was considered one of the most respected scouts in all the NFL and a rising star in front offices around the league. He would remain with the Ravens until 2005.

In 2005, the Browns fired head coach/general manager Butch Davis after a failed three years. They turned their eyes to their former scout Savage to take over. Savage jumped at the chance to be a general manager and took over the downtrodden franchise.

Like many before him, Savage failed to turn the Browns into a winner. However, he did two impressive things during his tenure there. First, Savage drafted one of the greatest offensive linemen in the history of the NFL, Joe Thomas. The other thing he did was lead the Browns to a 10-6 record in 2007. The best record the team has had since the franchise was revived. Savage was fired after a disastrous 2008, which saw the team finish 4-12.

Savage stayed away from the league for a year before jumping back into the game in 2010. New Eagles general manager Howie Roseman brought Savage on as a player personnel consultant. He would stay on in that role until Andy Reid, who was President of Football Operations, was fired in 2012. Roseman was now in complete control over the Eagles front office, and he gave Savage a full-time role as a player personnel executive. Despite the promotion, Savage would leave after the 2012 season.

In 2012, Savage was named the Executive Director of the Senior Bowl. There is when Savage made the senior bowl one of the most must-see events of the scouting season. Savage would often comment on prospects he liked and talk to scouts and executives about the players. Even away from the NFL, he still played a major role in the draft process. He stayed in that role until 2018 when the AAF came into existence.

Savage became the general manager of the Arizona Hotshots. In their lone season, the Hotshots were tied for the best record in the western conference and the second-best record in the league. When Douglas took over the Jets job he made it a priority to seek out his former mentor.

Chad Alexander - Director of Player Personnel

Chad Alexander began his NFL career in 1999 with the Baltimore Ravens. He worked with Joe Douglas for over a decade in Baltimore. Alexander began his career as a personnel assistant and worked his way up to regional scout in 2003. He would hold that title until 2009 when he was named Assistant Director of Pro Personnel. In May of this year, the Ravens promoted Alexander to Assistant Director of Pro and College Personnel.

When Douglas came to the Jets, Alexander, along with Savage, was one of the first names to come up as a possible part of his front office. Alexander is going to oversee both the college and pro scouting departments with the Jets. He will be especially relied upon for his knowledge as a pro scout. That is the one spot that Joe Douglas doesn’t have any personal experience with. Alexander will play an important part in scouting for free agents, trades, and waiver wire pickups for the upcoming season.

Greg Nejmeh - Director of Pro Personnel

Greg Nejmeh was hired by then-Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum in 2009. He began his NFL career as a scouting intern, a position he held for two years. Tannenbaum promoted Nejmeh to Pro Personnel assistant in 2011, a position he held for three years.

In 2014, Jon Idzik promoted Nejmeh to pro scout. It took Nejmeh a bit of time, but he was finally an entry-level pro scout. He stayed in that position for another three years before Mike Maccagnan promoted him. In 2018, Nejmeh was named Coordinator of Pro Scouting. This meant that Nejmeh was in charge of assigning who to scout, which scouts to send, and when to send them. Douglas had to figure out how to fill this important position after Maccagnan failed to do so after Matt Barzigan left for the Texans in 2018.

Nejmeh has proven to be a capable worker, as he has been promoted from all of his previous position within three years. It’s possible that Douglas views Nejmeh as a rising executive that he wanted to keep around in his new front office, so he offered him a promotion to ensure that happened. Nejmeh will work closely with Chad Alexander when putting together lists of players the Jets should go after in free agency, trades, and the waiver wire.

Dan Zbojovsky - Director of Personnel Operations

Dan Zbojovsky began his career in the NFL with the Jets in 2007. Then-Jets general manager Mike Tannenbaum hired Zbojovsky as part of the Jets video department. Zbojovsky impressed Tannenbaum enough to earn a major promotion and a departmental switch in 2009. Zbojovsky was named the Jets Coordinator of College Scouting by Tannenbaum and has held that job for the last decade. Douglas has promoted Zbojovsky, who will now be in charge of personnel operations.

This promotion is a little surprising, coming from Douglas. Zbojovsky has been passed over for promotion after promotion by three Jets general managers in the last decade. Mike Maccagnan even chose to hire from outside the team to replace Rex Hogan as Director of College Scouting rather than promote Zbojovsky. Even now, Zbojovsky isn’t running the college scouting department, but rather personnel operations.

It’s possible that Zbojovsky is a capable worker who can fill in wherever needed in the front office. Whatever the case may be, this is the only questionable hire that Douglas has made. That is a huge win for the Jets who had nothing but questionable hires coming from Idzik and Maccagnan, outside of Rex Hogan.

[Methinks there is enough change in the "Scouting Department" to make this thread El Newso De Fakeo"]

SAR I

[jetstream23]

35 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I want the truth!

SAR I

 

You can’t handle the truth! SAR, you root for a team that has flaws, and those flaws have to be fixed by men with draft picks. Whose gonna do it, you? You Lieutenant Weinberg? You T0m Shane? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Darnold and you curse Maccagnan. You have the luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that Darnold's mono while tragic, probably saved this team; and my existence while grotesque, and incomprehensible, to you, saves this team. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me in that War Room, you need me in that War Room! We use words like arm talent, shuttle times, positional flexibility. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent analyzing players, you use them as a punchline. I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and comes to MetLife Stadium to watch Jets players, and then questions the manner in which I draft them! I’d rather you just said ‘thank you’, paid your PSL and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a stopwatch, and head to Indianapolis. Either way, I don’t give a damn how many W's you think you are entitled to!

- Colonel Joseph Douglas

 

[SAR I]

10 minutes ago, Rolloffjet said:

SAR I

[The Crusher]

I’ve never been in a draft room in my life.,

[bitonti]

Phil Savage is the name on that list that stands out 

he was the GM in CLE that drafted Joe Thomas

worked in the Baltimore and Philadelphia scouting orgs and also ran the Senior Bowl for 6 years. 

Not saying he's perfect but the dude is smart and experienced. 

[Matt39]

The Jets football operations staff is barebones compared to say the Eagles operation. 

[KRL]

Reasonable concern but there's another way to look at it.  What if Douglas and the rest of the staff he brought in
knows the scouts and respects their opinions?  What if after reviewing the scouting reports on prospects Douglas
realized that the problem was the person doing the selecting?  Because I assumed he would totally revamp the
scouting staff after coming on board but he didn't.  And when Douglas got hired (May) it was the perfect time
to blow up the staff but he didn't

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

The Jets football operations staff is barebones compared to say the Eagles operation. 

Lol yesssss. No Joe Douglas thread is complete until you chime in with nonsense. 

[Matt39]

Just now, Samtorobby47 said:

Lol yesssss. No Joe Douglas thread is complete until you chime in with nonsense. 

I mean that's just a fact. This has nothing to do with Douglas anyways. 

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, KRL said:

Reasonable concern but there's another way to look at it.  What if Douglas and the rest of the staff he brought in
knows the scouts and respects their opinions?  What if after reviewing the scouting reports on prospects Douglas
realized that the problem was the person doing the selecting?  Because I assumed he would totally revamp the
scouting staff after coming on board but he didn't.  And when Douglas got hired (May) it was the perfect time
to blow up the staff but he didn't

What if he doesnt have the  budget to revamp the staff or hire expensive Ivy guys to build an analytics dept like the Eagles have?

[HawkeyeJet]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What if he doesnt have the  budget to revamp the staff or hire expensive Ivy guys to build an analytics dept like the Eagles have?

What if he's more influenced by his time with Ravens than Eagles?

[KRL]

13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What if he doesnt have the  budget to revamp the staff or hire expensive Ivy guys to build an analytics dept like the Eagles have?

Why would that be the case???  For the first time in forever a Jet GM actually hired multiple
personnel people for his staff (Hogan, Alexander & Savage).  Those guys cost more $$$ than
scouts do

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

What if he's more influenced by his time with Ravens than Eagles?

Baltimore might even be ahead of the Eagles when it comes to analytics...

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, KRL said:

Why would that be the case???  For the first time in forever a Jet GM actually hired multiple
personnel people for his staff (Hogan, Alexander & Savage).  Those guys cost more $$$ than
scouts do

I dunno. But the Jets have been old school/eye test across multiple GM’s now.

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

I want the truth!

SAR I

 

[Jetster]

I think JD  just did a comprehensive dive into the guys that agreed with Macc that drafting Hackenberg was a great idea & then just showed them the door. The guy touting Polite was probably shown the door too. 

[UnknownJetFan]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Like everyone else I am very pleased with the fact that Mac is gone, and I think Douglas is a completely different level of GM potentially in terms of experience and capability.

But here is what worries me and what nobody is discussing:

We still have the same scouting department

Neither Idzik or Mac made any significant changes to the scouting department primarily scout standpoint.

At the end of the day we hope Douglas will be better at evaluating talent, and choosing both the right players in the draft and in pro personal moves, but much of that still starts with the evaluations of the scouts in the field.

Douglas has said that he wants to change the language of the scouting department so that college and pro players are evaluated equally but that will take time to implement and we have not seen much movement in scouting and likely won't until after this first draft.

Remember this is a scouting department that signed off on Polite, Hackenburg and a litany of others as draftable prospects. A staff that rated Adams higher than Watson and Mahomes. Sure Mac made those choices but does anyone really believe they were completely in a vaccuum?

I am really concerned that our entire player evaluation scheme is flawed and even with a better GM the inputs he gets will lead to making bad draft decisions again.

 

 

 

A few things there to ease us all a bit:

1) JD highed a few of his own guys from Ravens and Eagles, so they will be the circle that will mainly make the decisions.

2) JD is attending all of the main Shrine, Scouting combine, etc. and will at least get enough data on the top players that can make up the first few rounds of the draft i.e rounds 1-3.

3) That is why JD wanted a 6 year contract since he will over time replace the scout team.

Now as you said, these scout team members are the ones you depend on for data especially for players in the mid to late rounds that maybe JD can't do enough of himself since at one point you have to delegate certain things. Those later picks get you depth, sometime starters early or later, in their career and even a kicker or other great ST player. Since I said that I have a sneaky feeling the 6th rounder we got back (which incidently is the KC pick i.e the end of the 6th round), could be used on a kicker to compete with Fickus and Meyer.

[UnknownJetFan]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

"You want me in that draft room, you need me in that draft room."

You can't handle the draft!

[Jetster]

11 minutes ago, KRL said:

Why would that be the case???  For the first time in forever a Jet GM actually hired multiple
personnel people for his staff (Hogan, Alexander & Savage).  Those guys cost more $$$ than
scouts do

Savage knows his sh*t & is a real insider. Hogan was very good for the Colts & JD with the Ravens & Eagles. I think we have a good think tank of 3 guys that would have never drafted 2 safeties in the 1st 2 rounds, drafted Hackenberg, gone DT AGAIN, or ignored the QB position until they had to trade 3 #2s to land a guy & really have no clue how it was going to play out. Macc got LUCKY the Browns took Mayfield, otherwise we'd be the team NOT MOVING ON from Josh Rosen. Can you imagine Josh Rosen behind this oline for 2 years? Can you say TRACTION?

[Losmeister]

54 minutes ago, SAR I said:

[Methinks there is enough change in the "Scouting Department" to make this thread El Newso De Fakeo"]

SAR I

jet nation staple is projecting ignorance onto everything around

[Beerfish]

We could have saved the jets a ton of money in the idzik and mccagnan draft years by just using the jet nation yearly mock draft which would have been twice as good as the jokers drafting for us.