peekskill68 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 I'm happy if Douglas never utters the phrase "best player available." Every GM has hits and misses. I hope JD's philosophy addresses positional need, accepting that some picks will be better than others and that there really is no such thing as a "can't miss" prospect... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, jetstream23 said: You can’t handle the truth! SAR, you root for a team that has flaws, and those flaws have to be fixed by men with draft picks. Whose gonna do it, you? You Lieutenant Weinberg? You T0m Shane? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Darnold and you curse Maccagnan. You have the luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know, that Darnold's mono while tragic, probably saved this team; and my existence while grotesque, and incomprehensible, to you, saves this team. You don’t want the truth because deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me in that War Room, you need me in that War Room! We use words like arm talent, shuttle times, positional flexibility. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent analyzing players, you use them as a punchline. I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and comes to MetLife Stadium to watch Jets players, and then questions the manner in which I draft them! I’d rather you just said ‘thank you’, paid your PSL and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a stopwatch, and head to Indianapolis. Either way, I don’t give a damn how many W's you think you are entitled to! - Colonel Joseph Douglas I just wanted to quote this. this is ******* great. That movie is awesome. Also great selection of a signature picture. You basically honor of my profile every time you post. Well done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Beerfish said: We could have saved the jets a ton of money in the idzik and mccagnan draft years by just using the jet nation yearly mock draft which would have been twice as good as the jokers drafting for us. I wonder if anyone has matched them up. Coudl we have actually picked the guys that were suggested. Have them been good players...etc.. I would just guess and say that you are most liekly right 100% but it would be nice to know. did Jet nation draft better than Macc etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 16 minutes ago, Beerfish said: We could have saved the jets a ton of money in the idzik and mccagnan draft years by just using the jet nation yearly mock draft which would have been twice as good as the jokers drafting for us. Indeed. Macc did it exactly backwards. Draft low-upside “consensus BAP” in the top of round 1 and take wild swings in rounds 2-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, Beerfish said: We could have saved the jets a ton of money in the idzik and mccagnan draft years by just using the jet nation yearly mock draft which would have been twice as good as the jokers drafting for us. I did it for 2014. We only went 4 rounds. It isn't apples to apples because the poster @NYJetsVets91 selected Bortles and Kirksey at slots where they were already gone in the actual draft, but the poster slaughtered Idzik. In an apples-to-apples, they both took a TE-CB-WR in the same slots and went 1-13-0 (Niklas-Desir-Herron) compared to 4-2-0 (Amaro-McDougle-Saunders). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Douglas gutted the heads of the personnel departments. Scouts will scout, but the group in charge of processing that info has been overhauled. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Ismt it fairly common to retain your low level scouts even after a regime change? Regional.scouts and cross checkers get replaced all the time... but has any owner or GM just sacked the entire department after a draft? Can think of a few owners in NFL history capable of that but usually you only hear about the chief execs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 hours ago, johnnysd said: Like everyone else I am very pleased with the fact that Mac is gone, and I think Douglas is a completely different level of GM potentially in terms of experience and capability. But here is what worries me and what nobody is discussing: We still have the same scouting department Neither Idzik or Mac made any significant changes to the scouting department primarily scout standpoint. At the end of the day we hope Douglas will be better at evaluating talent, and choosing both the right players in the draft and in pro personal moves, but much of that still starts with the evaluations of the scouts in the field. Douglas has said that he wants to change the language of the scouting department so that college and pro players are evaluated equally but that will take time to implement and we have not seen much movement in scouting and likely won't until after this first draft. Remember this is a scouting department that signed off on Polite, Hackenburg and a litany of others as draftable prospects. A staff that rated Adams higher than Watson and Mahomes. Sure Mac made those choices but does anyone really believe they were completely in a vaccuum? I am really concerned that our entire player evaluation scheme is flawed and even with a better GM the inputs he gets will lead to making bad draft decisions again. But we don't. There has been a huge turnover in the scouting department over the last few years. Mac was sorely disliked and many scouts were either dismissed or left for better opportunities. And that's not just the college scouts, the pro player scouts have had a turnover as well, even though the Pro Player scouts have actually done excellent work in filling out the holes poor drafting has caused over the years. Scouts report what tape reveals, the GM then takes those reports and weighs the tape, measurables, combine results and interviews when creating their board. Some even take coach's requests (Coples, John Connor, Sanchez's college buddy). So in the end it comes down to the GM. The Jets college scouting department valued guys like Russell Wilson and Alvin Kamara. They were over-ruled by the GM. So its not the scouts per-se. Bottom line is with the information available today from major reporting outlets and metrics sights, youtube tape and highlights, etc., there is enough to judge value in some degree even without the scouting department. The scouts are there to find the hidden gems, or possible flame-outs. Polite should have been Winovich for sure, and most of us knew that without a scouting report. Sometimes it just comes down to luck, other times it comes down to a GM that knows how judge personnel at a more successful rate than others. But I wouldn't worry about the scouts. They are not as high on the personnel food chain as you might think. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 hours ago, SAR I said: SAR I 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post #27TheDominator Posted February 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: Douglas gutted the heads of the personnel departments. Scouts will scout, but the group in charge of processing that info has been overhauled. +1 Costello had a piece that mentioned that back in August they had mock scouting exercises to get used to each other and the new grading system that Douglas put into place. It also mentioned that he already knew all the scouts. Quote Joe Douglas effect is palpable as Jets overhaul gets underway If the Jets’ offseason were a sitcom, it would be called “Everybody Loves Joe.” Whomever you talked to about new Jets general manager Joe Douglas at the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala. this past week, the responses were the same: “The Jets nailed it. He’s great. They finally got it right,” or something to that effect. Whether it was longtime Jets employees, scouts from other teams, player agents, coaches who have worked with him, the praise for Douglas was effusive. Just because he seems to be universally respected and liked does not mean he will be successful, but it is a strong step in the right direction. In the end, it will still come down to finding the right players, developing them and getting some luck when it comes to injuries. Still, you can already feel the effect Douglas has had inside the Jets. He has infused confidence into the organization that has been lacking in recent years. He is comfortable in his own skin and gregarious. He has a way about him that puts people at ease quickly and has been a unifying force inside the team. As important as his demeanor has been, the bigger factor in winning over people inside the organization has been his credibility and vision for the future. After getting hired in June, Douglas met with the personnel department in July, about a week before training camp. Though he hired his lieutenants — Rex Hogan, Chad Alexander and Phil Savage — he inherited the scouting staff from Mike Maccagnan. Douglas knew all of them from years of being on the scouting trail together, but this was his introduction as their boss. Douglas laid out a mission statement for them to follow and the core traits the Jets want in players overall, then specifically for each position. Douglas’ philosophy is a blend of different influences in his career. Ozzie Newsome’s Ravens, where he scouted for 15 years, is the biggest influence. But he also brought some Eagles with him from his time there, some Saints from working with Bears GM Ryan Pace, who was in New Orleans for years, and some Broncos from his time with former Denver coach John Fox in Chicago. There is also some Colts influence from Hogan after two years in Indianapolis. In August, the scouting department did some mock scouting exercises to get used to the new philosophy and grading system. It gave the scouts a jump-start on the process that hit full stride this past week. Though the timing of Maccagnan’s firing and the hiring of Douglas may have seemed unorthodox and unwise at the time, it now is benefitting the Jets. Instead of hiring a GM in January and him jumping in just as the draft season hits high gear, Douglas had months to get his staff prepared. “I also didn’t have to rush through implementing a grading scale change, implementing a new philosophy,” Douglas said in his season-ending press conference. “You didn’t have to try to hit the ground running with All-Star games and the [NFL Scouting] Combine right around the corner. So you could really get your processes in place, communicate with the people on your staff about what expectations are, how processes are going to change, what the grading scale’s going to be. “We were able to have some exercises in the summer, do some summer work as far as getting guys used to the new grading scale. Not to bore you with all those details, but there were a lot, lot, of benefits of starting when I did.” Douglas met with each area scout individually in December, and they went over his region in depth. The staff will meet as a group in the coming weeks as they prepare for the combine next month. The coaches will also get involved in the process soon when the Jets begin narrowing their focus. The task in front of Douglas is daunting. He inherited a roster with very little blue-chip talent and no middle class after years of poor drafting. Douglas is already beloved and respected by his peers. If he can infuse the Jets with talent quickly and make them a perennial playoff contender, his popularity with fans might even be greater. https://nypost.com/2020/01/25/joe-douglas-effect-is-palatable-as-jets-overhaul-gets-underway/ 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 The elephant in the room is blind I think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 The reason I have been supportive of JD is not just because of him-it is because of the more serious infrastructure below him. It is possible that the scouts on the ground were retained, because 1) who wants to fire people and 2) the Johnsons likely do have a budget. JD was way above budget. So were likely Alexander, Hogan and Savage. I understand that the Jets do not appear to be buying in to analytics as deeply as other teams. I don't see that as being JD's thing. Let's see how that works out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said: No. There’s still left overs. There’s guys there now that will be gone after this. But they added Hogan and Savage and some other guy at the highest level, I recall 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomebodytoAnybody47 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, T0mShane said: But they added Hogan and Savage and some other guy at the highest level, I recall I meant the scouts and smaller guys we don’t really know about. Like that article said he brought in his top guys but inherited Macs scouting staff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Matt39 said: I mean that's just a fact. This has nothing to do with Douglas anyways. Fact? How do you know this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said: Fact? How do you know this? I mean unless there’s a deep state analytics dept at Florham Park that we don’t know about, the Philly op is a bit more football heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxville Jets Fan Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 This is completely wrong. Douglas brought in a Phil Savage and some scout from the Colts who is his number 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJ1 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 5 hours ago, johnnysd said: Like everyone else I am very pleased with the fact that Mac is gone, and I think Douglas is a completely different level of GM potentially in terms of experience and capability. But here is what worries me and what nobody is discussing: We still have the same scouting department Neither Idzik or Mac made any significant changes to the scouting department primarily scout standpoint. At the end of the day we hope Douglas will be better at evaluating talent, and choosing both the right players in the draft and in pro personal moves, but much of that still starts with the evaluations of the scouts in the field. Douglas has said that he wants to change the language of the scouting department so that college and pro players are evaluated equally but that will take time to implement and we have not seen much movement in scouting and likely won't until after this first draft. Remember this is a scouting department that signed off on Polite, Hackenburg and a litany of others as draftable prospects. A staff that rated Adams higher than Watson and Mahomes. Sure Mac made those choices but does anyone really believe they were completely in a vaccuum? I am really concerned that our entire player evaluation scheme is flawed and even with a better GM the inputs he gets will lead to making bad draft decisions again. it's an interesting and valid point you're making. My feeling is because JD has a 6 year deal he's taking a wait and see approach. He wants to know what guys are truly the guys that have an eye for talent? Either way, the experimentation period is over after the draft. JD will have an idea of who he'd like to retain. AND I don't believe for a second that the scouting dept signed off on drafting Polite. That's simply a conclusion that you've jumped to. ALL of Mac's piss poor picks have been a product of Mac being an incompetent a$$hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, NYJ1 said: it's an interesting and valid point you're making. My feeling is because JD has a 6 year deal he's taking a wait and see approach. He wants to know what guys are truly the guys that have an eye for talent? Either way, the experimentation period is over after the draft. JD will have an idea of who he'd like to retain. AND I don't believe for a second that the scouting dept signed off on drafting Polite. That's simply a conclusion that you've jumped to. ALL of Mac's piss poor picks have been a product of Mac being an incompetent a$$hole. We literally have no idea about anything about Joe Douglas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowles Movement Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Matt39 said: I mean unless there’s a deep state analytics dept at Florham Park that we don’t know about, the Philly op is a bit more football heavy. Got it. You dont. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said: Got it. You dont. https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/front-office/ https://www.newyorkjets.com/team/front-office-roster/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibby Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 18 hours ago, SAR I said: SAR I “ Is there any other kind of danger?” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 On 2/21/2020 at 2:05 PM, section314 said: Douglass probably made some changes, and may have kept some guys too. He's been around, sounds like he worked hard on his way up, so probably knows good scouts/ evaluators when he sees them. Some guys that were on staff he may have kept because he knows their talent. Remember, it sounds like Macc pretty much was a one man show during the whole draft process so I doubt he really put a ton of faith in what the scouts, or coaches, felt, unless they were in virtual agreement with him. Right. When we were shown what the Colts, Bills and Cowboys draft rooms looked like it was a stark difference from the cold and quiet environment the Red Box sponsored Jets war room had going on. A couple guys there on the phone in what looked like the back room at a Chucky Cheese. But the scouts were nowhere to be found. Rex Hogan was inside that wonderfully inclusive Colts War room and Douglas was over in Philly. I'm sure we're seeing changes with how this thing is run. But they fired two scouts AND Heimerdinger and Macchiato's. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Jet Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 17 hours ago, Augustiniak said: could it be that mccagnan was that bad, that he ignored what his scouts advised? How much did the scouts change from Idzik to McCagnan? I don’t keep up with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 hours ago, GREENBEAN said: Right. When we were shown what the Colts, Bills and Cowboys draft rooms looked like it was a stark difference from the cold and quiet environment the Red Box sponsored Jets war room had going on. A couple guys there on the phone in what looked like the back room at a Chucky Cheese. But the scouts were nowhere to be found. Rex Hogan was indie that wonderfully inclusive Colts War room and Douglas was over in Philly. I'm sure we're seeing changes with how this thing is run. But they fired two scouts AND Heimerdinger and Macchiato's. We can only hope, brother.? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 We can only hope, brother.Indeed we can. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 22 hours ago, SAR I said: I want the truth! SAR I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said: SAR I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MS jets Fan Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 I believe Douglas wants to build the locker-room around high character guys like Steve Mc and will draft players based on that type of quality. I don't see him taking a Polite type of player or even wasting a 7th rounder on someone like that. Look at what Williams did with the defensive side with players who were 5th and 6th stringers on the roster all good ability but what separated them was they bought into the team first mentality and left their ego's out. With this said it's his first draft and control over the roster in free agency. We will see shortly how it all plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 On 2/21/2020 at 1:46 PM, Matt39 said: The Jets football operations staff is barebones compared to say the Eagles operation. Can you qualify this with some sort of data? I genuinely do not know what you are referring to and what your sources could possibility be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 21 hours ago, Matt39 said: https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/front-office/ https://www.newyorkjets.com/team/front-office-roster/ Ok, I just took a look at both links. Can you elaborate on exactly what it is you think these prove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, slimjasi said: Ok, I just took a look at both links. Can you elaborate on exactly what it is you think these prove? The Eagles have hired a bevy of Ivy nerds to head up their analytics team to supplement the old school scouting dept. Berry was just poached and Tepper just recently took one to Carolina. Their football ops staff is just bigger and a bit more diverse in their duties. Roseman has a lot of pull and Lurie wants to win. Savage and Hogan while probably solid old school scouts, are eye test guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Matt39 said: The Eagles have hired a bevy of Ivy nerds to head up their analytics team to supplement the old school scouting dept. Berry was just poached and Tepper just recently took one to Carolina. Their football ops staff is just bigger and a bit more diverse in their duties. Roseman has a lot of pull and Lurie wants to win. Savage and Hogan while probably solid old school scouts, are eye test guys. And you know this how? Some of this stuff you come up with and try to pass off as fact is simply your uninformed opinion and feelings. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, sec101row23 said: And you know this how? Some of this stuff you come up with and try to pass off as fact is simply your uninformed opinion and feelings. Wouldn’t we know otherwise? I don’t get why this is so controversial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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