Astros = why Rodger destroyed the tapes

[whodeawhodat]

I think the big difference is that the cheating worked from bottom to top in the astros case.  Players developed the system and the front office then blew it into overdrive with the code cracking intern and his software algorithm breaking spreadsheet so that they can use it in real time and made it more reliable.

In the patriots case, this was front office and HC driven with the results served to the players also in real time while there was a ton of information available to also help with preparation for the opponent.  There were stories from opponents offenses that the patriots defense was calling out their plays as they lined up.  You cant really do that unless you are getting real time information.

There was mention of the astros HC physically ripping the monitor down at one point.  Little Bill on the other hand is sending his video crew to interview staff with opposition sidelines in the background still...  Little Bill should have absolutely gotten a year suspension for spearheading the cheating.  

[section314]

3 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

I think the big difference is that the cheating worked from bottom to top in the astros case.  Players developed the system and the front office then blew it into overdrive with the code cracking intern and his software algorithm breaking spreadsheet so that they can use it in real time and made it more reliable.

In the patriots case, this was front office and HC driven with the results served to the players also in real time while there was a ton of information available to also help with preparation for the opponent.  There were stories from opponents offenses that the patriots defense was calling out their plays as they lined up.  You cant really do that unless you are getting real time information.

There was mention of the astros HC physically ripping the monitor down at one point.  Little Bill on the other hand is sending his video crew to interview staff with opposition sidelines in the background still...  Little Bill should have absolutely gotten a year suspension for spearheading the cheating.  

This is why Faulk and Warner refuse to talk about the Super Bowl they lost to the Patriots.

[ghost_in_pads02]

You do realize "stories" and "rumors" are just that right? You would actually need hard evidence to prove there was actual taping of the rams walk through..which there was not..just conspiracy theories. The NFL already came out and said that was no evidence.

The rams just lost and jets fans are just mad. 

[UntouchableCrew]

100% agreed. The nature of news, media, outrage culture, and player freedom is much different in 2020 than it was in 2007, but this is exactly what Goodell wanted to avoid. He knew if everything became public it would be 10x a bigger deal than it ended up being.

[Chrebetfan80]

14 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Belichick should have gotten the AJ Hinch 1-year suspension.  Goodell has no balls.

I agree but the distinction between what an NFL head coach means to a team and what a MLB manager means are two very different impacts.  I agree bill should have been suspended but its hard to say what woudl have been fair, its not necessarily apples to apples. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Exactly. Yes, what the Astros did was above and beyond. They got caught and are now paying the consequences.

Where was the players and the union chiding steroid users and castigating them? 

Some of the players responses have been ridiculous.

You’re right.  The response from the Astro players are so lame and arrogant that they’re making it worse on themselves.  And are keeping the hatred and outrage coming

[jetstream23]

4 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I agree but the distinction between what an NFL head coach means to a team and what a MLB manager means are two very different impacts.  I agree bill should have been suspended but its hard to say what woudl have been fair, its not necessarily apples to apples. 

Okay, but are you saying that Bill Belichick hasn't been important to the Patriots success?

[Chrebetfan80]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Okay, but are you saying that Bill Belichick hasn't been important to the Patriots success?

no thats ridiculous, I'm saying that an NFL head coaches impact on a teams performance FAR surpasses that of a Baseball manager.  Thats why you can throw the optics of a one year suspension at a baseball manager and not absolutely cripple a franchise for a full season.  

To me if Belichick is suspended for a full year the pats take a big dip in performance, he's arguably the greatest football coach of all time.  Where as even without hinch i think the astros in the post season again this year. 

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

You do realize "stories" and "rumors" are just that right? You would actually need hard evidence to prove there was actual taping of the rams walk through..which there was not..just conspiracy theories. The NFL already came out and said that was no evidence.

The rams just lost and jets fans are just mad. 

Prove to us that you're not an idiot

[jetstream23]

13 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

no thats ridiculous, I'm saying that an NFL head coaches impact on a teams performance FAR surpasses that of a Baseball manager.  Thats why you can throw the optics of a one year suspension at a baseball manager and not absolutely cripple a franchise for a full season.  

To me if Belichick is suspended for a full year the pats take a big dip in performance, he's arguably the greatest football coach of all time.  Where as even without hinch i think the astros in the post season again this year. 

Agreed that NFL coaches impact the game more than MLB.  But, I still think Belichick deserved a suspension.  This guy knows the rules inside and out better than those who actually wrote the rules.  Just look at the clock-running loophole on delay of game penalties last year.  His in-depth knowledge of the rules is exactly why I never buy his "we misinterpreted things," "that wasn't our understanding of the rule," "we didn't know," etc. bullspit!  If anything, he deserves MORE of a suspension because he flagrantly and knowingly broke the rules....and then he did it again with Spygate 2.0 against the Bengals this year.

[ghost_in_pads02]

12 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Prove to us that you're not an idiot

I do everything time I have to reply to your post.

[BUM-KNEE]

16 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

I do everything time I have to reply to your post.

Urine. Idiot.

[JetPotato]

21 minutes ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

I do everything time I have to reply to your post.

Fail.

[chirorob]

15 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Manfred is getting killed for 2 things:

1. Not suspending any players

2.  Calling the World Series trophy a "piece of metal".

That said, the Patriots should be punished again.  

Tough place.   He doesn't offer immunity, they never find out what happens.

He goes after the players, the MLB union gets involved, and that union is much stronger than the NFL's player union.

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Agreed that NFL coaches impact the game more than MLB.  But, I still think Belichick deserved a suspension.  This guy knows the rules inside and out better than those who actually wrote the rules.  Just look at the clock-running loophole on delay of game penalties last year.  His in-depth knowledge of the rules is exactly why I never buy his "we misinterpreted things," "that wasn't our understanding of the rule," "we didn't know," etc. bullspit!  If anything, he deserves MORE of a suspension because he flagrantly and knowingly broke the rules....and then he did it again with Spygate 2.0 against the Bengals this year.

I agree with you on that he deserved a suspension, I think we all know bill is a guy that operates on the fringes of the rules regularly and sometimes knowingly he crosses that line.  My original argument however is how do you structure that suspension? 

Hinche got a full year, but as we said an NFL coach impacts a game and franchise markedly more than an MLB manager.  So if a year for a manager was appropriate to what scale would that equal for an NFL head coach?  It's not apples to apples.  A full year suspension for Bill would SIGNIFICANTLY hinder the performance of the pats for an entire season, while I'm not even sure the Astros as a team are hindered at all by his absence, it only effects AJ Hinche personally.  While personally i feel Bill should have been heavily punished, especially now as a repeat offender, we also know that these things aren't done in a vacuum.  

That's my issue, to what extent would we feel it would equal that of Hinche.  Is it 8 games? is it 10?  I cant really answer that. 

[Charlie Brown]

15 hours ago, JetPotato said:

If anything, it's a repeat of the NFL's mistake. There's more to this story as there's clearly something being hidden about those buzzers. It makes it so much worse, so they only went so far with the investigation and reveal.

THIS IS THE KEY POINT!

The Truth is the Pats cheating was 1000X worse than this baseball scandal.  The Parts clearly didn't just tape(only Pats sycophants and their enablers believe that), indeed if that was all the Pats did then NFL clearly would NOT have destroyed ALL of the EVIDENCE!

Why?

Because you don't destroy evidence that would essentially squelch conspiracy rumors and act as a firewall as to what the pats did. 

As many Pats fans and some JN posters have correctly stated .......enough NFL teams had in the past "taped" various things. Hmmmmmmm so why the big deal, why BURN the evidence?

No the NFL understood that the Pats had cheated at such a level that the TRUTH could never come out and see the light of day!  They were responsible for more than mere "taping" and the NFL destroyed the evidence entered into a cover up to save the NFL

But this is why the talk of Brady and Beli-goon being the best of all time is disgraceful. 

Bellichick and his handling of Aaron Hernandez when the latter was begging Belichick to trade him because of the elements around him should be enough to suspend this CLOWN but the NFL doubles down and continues to cover up for the Pats on and off the field, it is a DISGRACE!!!

[Dcat]

37 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

THIS IS THE KEY POINT!

The Truth is the Pats cheating was 1000X worse than this baseball scandal.  The Parts clearly didn't just tape(only Pats sycophants and their enablers believe that), indeed if that was all the Pats did then NFL clearly would NOT have destroyed ALL of the EVIDENCE!

Why?

Because you don't destroy evidence that would essentially squelch conspiracy rumors and act as a firewall as to what the pats did. 

As many Pats fans and some JN posters have correctly stated .......enough NFL teams had in the past "taped" various things. Hmmmmmmm so why the big deal, why BURN the evidence?

No the NFL understood that the Pats had cheated at such a level that the TRUTH could never come out and see the light of day!  They were responsible for more than mere "taping" and the NFL destroyed the evidence entered into a cover up to save the NFL

But this is why the talk of Brady and Beli-goon being the best of all time is disgraceful. 

Bellichick and his handling of Aaron Hernandez when the latter was begging Belichick to trade him because of the elements around him should be enough to suspend this CLOWN but the NFL doubles down and continues to cover up for the Pats on and off the field, it is a DISGRACE!!!

one day in the future, someone will come clean.  Long after Belichick can ruin their career.  

[greenwichjetfan]

7 hours ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

Ha ha @ Manfred ran an honest investigation and Goodell didn't...

 

A jet fan will alway "jet fan"

Epitome of pats* fans: Goodell ran a perfectly viable and honest investigation during spygate, but was a clown who was out for brady's blood during deflategate. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

10 hours ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

Ha ha @ Manfred ran an honest investigation and Goodell didn't...

A jet fan will alway "jet fan"

Truth and Good fun for the offseason - even brought you out of the shadows - winning  

do you think Brady is coming back, do you want him back? or just another smokeshow...

[whodeawhodat]

7 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

no thats ridiculous, I'm saying that an NFL head coaches impact on a teams performance FAR surpasses that of a Baseball manager.  Thats why you can throw the optics of a one year suspension at a baseball manager and not absolutely cripple a franchise for a full season.  

To me if Belichick is suspended for a full year the pats take a big dip in performance, he's arguably the greatest football coach of all time.  Where as even without hinch i think the astros in the post season again this year. 

Sean Payton served time for bounty gate.

I will give goodel this though.  He punished the pats without a whistle blower(at least publicly).  Baseball had known and did nothing(besides a strongly worded letter to all teams) until the Athletic published that article and forced their hand.  

8 hours ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

You do realize "stories" and "rumors" are just that right? You would actually need hard evidence to prove there was actual taping of the rams walk through..which there was not..just conspiracy theories. The NFL already came out and said that was no evidence.

The rams just lost and jets fans are just mad. 

they are now stories and rumors because goodel burned the tapes.

[ghost_in_pads02]

3 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Epitome of pats* fans: Goodell ran a perfectly viable and honest investigation during spygate, but was a clown who was out for brady's blood during deflategate. 

Yea...no pats fan feelings this way at all. 

[ghost_in_pads02]

1 hour ago, whodeawhodat said:

 

they are now stories and rumors because goodel burned the tapes.

When did you get your tin foil hat?

 

1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Truth and Good fun for the offseason - even brought you out of the shadows - winning  

do you think Brady is coming back, do you want him back? or just another smokeshow...

 

I just want it to be over already. Whether he stays or goes..I am just sooo tired of the brady talk already..

[T0mShane]

Hi. It’s because of gambling. Despite MLB posting about a billion more games than the NFL in any given season, the NFL draws ten times the gambling revenue than MLB. Manfred can shrug his shoulders and admit that teams have been stealing championships in his league because nobody really gives a sh*t about baseball. If Goodell were to get up and say that NFL scores were being manipulated or that the entirety of the Patriots dynasty was fugazi, he’d end up getting pickled in a barrel of hydrochloric acid in the basement of a Reno casino. 

[greenwichjetfan]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Hi. It’s because of gambling. Despite MLB posting about a billion more games than the NFL in any given season, the NFL draws ten times the gambling revenue than MLB. Manfred can shrug his shoulders and admit that teams have been stealing championships in his league because nobody really gives a sh*t about baseball. If Goodell were to get up and say that NFL scores were being manipulated or that the entirety of the Patriots dynasty was fugazi, he’d end up getting pickled in a barrel of hydrochloric acid in the basement of a Reno casino. 

It’s always been about saving the shield from the wrath of its betting public. Just look at what’s transpired between the NFL and betting in the last 20 years. Fantasy football, multiple states legalizing sports gambling due to DFS, multiple teams moving around to facilitate an NFL team in Vegas. The shield couldn’t afford to lose all of these bettors by risking the NFL turning into the WWF overnight via a cheating scandal which would ruin the dynasty and its golden boy.

[nyjunc]

Goodwill destroyed the tapes because he knew others were doing it and it would only hurt the game.  Manfred is incompetent and had done a horrible job with the Astros scandal.

[Philc1]

Manfred is such a better commissioner than Goodell and Silver

[Philc1]

54 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Goodwill destroyed the tapes because he knew others were doing it and it would only hurt the game.  Manfred is incompetent and had done a horrible job with the Astros scandal.

But he’s actually holding the Astros accountable 

 

What he’s doing is the equivalent of Belichick getting a year suspension 

 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

The Astro's might actually get boo'd off the field based on initial fan reaction - ugly https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28775443/jose-altuve-grazed-pitch-astros-booed-first-away-game-spring

Associated Press LAKELAND, Fla. -- Jose Altuve insisted that he tuned out the hecklers. But he couldn't avoid a pitch that grazed him.

"He was hit in the foot. That ain't nothing, you know what I mean?'' Houston Astros manager Dusty Baker said Monday after his team's 11-1 win over the Detroit Tigers at half-empty Joker Marchant Stadium. "It wasn't intentional.''

Altuve was loudly booed when he was introduced for his spring training debut, cheered when he struck out and called a cheater by several fans. It was quite a difference from past years, when the diminutive All-Star second baseman was among the most popular players in the majors.

That was before Altuve and his Houston teammates were implicated in the sign-stealing scandal that has rocked baseball.

Altuve and fellow starters Alex Bregman, Carlos Correa and Yuli Gurriel played for the first time in the exhibition season. After Houston opened the Grapefruit League in the stadium it shares with the World Series champion Washington Nationals, this was the first time the Astros were away from their complex, providing a taste of the reaction they might receive on the road this season.

*************************

Always wondered if Malcolm Butler knew the play (sign stealing?) to get that pick-6 and steal Super Bowl XLIX from the Seahawks.  Incredibly stupid call by Pete but who knows?

[Smashmouth]

On 2/23/2020 at 8:05 PM, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Rob Manfred performed an honest investigation, told the truth and is getting killed for it,  Roger destroyed the evidence, never told the full story and got away with it - surprised non of the media has made this connection... 

The pats* filmed the sidelines and were stealing signs - the Astros/players are getting labeled as the worst thing is sports... how did the pats* get away with the same cheating? really don't see how what the pats* did is different from the Astros yet the reaction is very different...

Is baseball more knoble? or did Roger protect the shield by hiding the truth?

Discuss? 

 weren't the tapes the Pats had, of the Rams Practice  ?

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

But he’s actually holding the Astros accountable 

 

What he’s doing is the equivalent of Belichick getting a year suspension 

 

No he's not, all the players involved got off with nothing.  He suspended the manager, that was pretty much it.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

19 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

 weren't the tapes the Pats had, of the Rams Practice  ?

thought the tapes were of every team they played including the SuperBowl walkthrough - Rams "Greatest show on turf" averaged 30 points a game, yet only scored 17 vs pats* - did defense knows the plays?

Mangingi stopped them from tapping the Jets so it was not just the Rams but we may never know the truth

[Philc1]

24 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

No he's not, all the players involved got off with nothing.  He suspended the manager, that was pretty much it.

Manfred is limited in what he can do because he’s dealing with by far the strongest union in all of sports

 

I wish we could have Manfred as the nfl or nba commissioner

 

[Philc1]

17 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

thought the tapes were of every team they played including the SuperBowl walkthrough - Rams "Greatest show on turf" averaged 30 points a game, yet only scored 17 vs pats* - did defense knows the plays?

Mangingi stopped them from tapping the Jets so it was not just the Rams but we may never know the truth

And that’s part of why Beliweasel hated Mangini so much he was complicit in a lot of the cheating and was potentially a whistleblower 

[ghost_in_pads02]

12 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

thought the tapes were of every team they played including the SuperBowl walkthrough - Rams "Greatest show on turf" averaged 30 points a game, yet only scored 17 vs pats* - did defense knows the plays?

Mangingi stopped them from tapping the Jets so it was not just the Rams but we may never know the truth

The 07 giants did the same thing to the high scoring Pats in the SB. So by your logic that means the giants knew the Pats plays.

 

[Philc1]

37 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

 weren't the tapes the Pats had, of the Rams Practice  ?

Yes, the walkthroughs