WR Anderson vs. Cooper (Who to go all in with for Jets?)

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, Butterfield said:

You can’t rely on draft picks in year 1, especially after the first round.  The Jets have to sign a wr or two.  Who would you sign?

Trade a late rd pick for Jeffery

 

I think if we had Jeudy and Jeffery as our starting WRs next year that’s pretty good

 

[ChuckkieB]

If the choice is between Cooper @ 18m and Anderson @15 mil I would sign neither and draft 2 WR in the first 3 rounds.  Sign as many FA OL as is realistic and then draft a WR in round 1, OL round 2, and WR in round 3.  

[Philc1]

Just now, ChuckkieB said:

If the choice is between Cooper @ 18m and Anderson @15 mil I would sign neither and draft 2 WR in the first 3 rounds.  Sign as many FA OL as is realistic and then draft a WR in round 1, OL round 2, and WR in round 3.  

This.

[Villain The Foe]

23 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said:

WR Anderson vs. Cooper (Who to go all in with for Jets?). That's my question, if Cooper is available. Cooper is a moire complete WR so would it be that rather than pay Robby we just let him walk and pay Cooper?. Note that Cooper(25 yrs old) is actually 1 year younger than Robby(26 yrs old). And, since it likely would be the Jets choice that the 1st round draft pick results in either an OT or perhaps one of the best non-Chase Young Edge rushers, we are probably looking at a WR in round 2 or 3 that while this is a deep class there may be a guy that at best for a while gets on the field as a number 4/5 WR for a while. Thoughts?.  

Outbid everyone for Cooper (#1 WR solidified). 

Trade down in this draft (The top 3 OT's will be off the board by the time pick 11 comes around.) and pick up the top center and guards in the draft along with drafting another WR in a deep WR class that you'll be able to put into Cooper's spot when it's time for him to walk and for the Jets to provide a payday for. 

Folks keep complaining about the money/price. One of the least valuable assets IS the money because the cap goes up every year, as well as players price. Every year we hear about how how pricey a player is and then 2 seasons later the contract is pretty much "team friendly". 

The bottomline is that you'll have to overpay in order for players to consider playing for a sh*tty team. Afterall, they risk future HOF status and legacy. Just look at the season LeVeon Bell just had as an example. 

We have a QB on a rookie deal and I'm not excited to see the Jets squander yet another rookie because of undervaluing the offensive line and receiving targets because of "price" and drafting defense. 

Developing Darnold is more important and is worth overpaying Cooper in order to get him here. We're not the Chiefs where the team is so stacked guys like Sammy Watkins is willing to take a paycut to remain with a championship-caliber team. 

Teams like the Jets overpay for the talent while teams like the Chiefs watch their players negotiate prices in order to provide "team friendly" deals. 

 

Darnold is more important than being cheap, and the Jets are not in position for players not to take advantage of the fact that the Jets have no talent. Over pay now, compensate later with drafting well. 

 

Generally speaking, the money is irrelevant. 

[GREENBEAN]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Knowing Jerry there’s no way he lets Cooper just walk

Especially after using last year's first t grab him. That was when he thought he had a Super Bowl team though. Cooper rounded that off nicely.  Who knows what that old coot is thinking these days? 

[Beerfish]

All in?  Neither.

[slimjasi]

I like Cooper but he's overrated on this board. 

Good player, but injury prone and will be the most expensive WR on the market.  

I either resign Anderson, who has chemistry with Darnold and is a homegrown guy, or I pass on both and draft a minimum of two WRs in this draft. 

[Lurker89]

Cooper is averaging 1019 yards a year with an average of 6.5 Touchdowns a year.

Anderson is averaging 765 yards with 5 Touchdowns a year.

The difference is 254 yards and 1.5 TDs. That's a valuable production gap but the players are comparable. I think a fair market value for Cooper with that production should be 13-14M and Robby 10-12M but a dry market will push their value. I wouldn't be shocked to see Robby get 14M per and Cooper 18M-19M. 

They're both still young. Whoever ends up paying them is hoping they play into the contract, not paying for what their current production is worth. I don't necessarily want to be the team taking that gamble at those prices but our cupboard is pretty bare at WR.

I wouldn't mind Robby for 11M paired with a rookie from one of our first 2 picks. But he will cost more than that, so how much are we willing to overpay for Robby? At what point does paying for Cooper become the smarter choice or even a prudent choice at all? Do we just let them sign elsewhere?

Personally, I'd like to have one of them as it would provide some roster flexibility, but at what cost? Pay Robby instead of Enunwa and we don't have this problem.

[Lurker89]

11 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

Folks keep complaining about the money/price. One of the least valuable assets IS the money because the cap goes up every year, as well as players price. Every year we hear about how how pricey a player is and then 2 seasons later the contract is pretty much "team friendly". 

 

Agree, the cap goes up every year. Both players will fetch more than their perceived value, if they produce the contracts will look fine in hindsight.

[phill1c]

L00k,

it's not like you need an all-star at EVERY position. The goal is to have a great functioning UNIT. Now, to me, the Jets have long ignored the OL. And it's shown. But I actually think that this OL has the chance to be good with two new starters, only one of whom needs to be great.  

the problem with the Jets OL is that it's been small. I mean, Winters is like 280. the last two starting OGs were in their 280s, I think. Harrisson is not huge. You can't move anyone with those 'shrimpos' inside. and you're vulnerable to the bum rush salad toss. it's ugly!! we've seen it.

Now, with WRs, I'm totally against overpaying for anyone. BB has won plenty of championships picking up the latest Randy Moss or Amendola or Welker or whomever at the end of preseason. So, it's not necessary to draft them. And you need to be ready to "win now" to draft a WR in the 1st round, otherwise, it's a waste. IMO, the Jets WR corps that finished the season had plenty of talent. No need to overpay for anyone. And, like the RB, QB,  and TE positions, it's really about the OL anyway. So, yeah, if someone unexpectedly good at WR is available with a 2nd round pick, sure take him. But I think the Jets need a BIG WR like Cooper to round out a quick, little corps: crowder, berrio, smith. these guys have shown ability. and with an offseason, why wouldn't they pick right up where they've left off? especially if they get some players-initiated practice? I'm not worried at all about WR. Even if Anderson leaves via free agency because I think they already have contingency plans and Anderson is a nice story, not an indispensable player. Cooper way over Anderson btw.

And, really, the needs, in order, are OT, OG, CB, Edge,WR.

I'd like the Jets to get a OT and OG using FA and their first pick in the draft. I'd like the Jets to luck out and get an [effective] edge rusher with their second pick. I'd like to see Jenkins retained. Man, I want to see some hogs up front!!

[Villain The Foe]

5 hours ago, phill1c said:

L00k,

it's not like you need an all-star at EVERY position. The goal is to have a great functioning UNIT. Now, to me, the Jets have long ignored the OL. And it's shown. But I actually think that this OL has the chance to be good with two new starters, only one of whom needs to be great.  

the problem with the Jets OL is that it's been small. I mean, Winters is like 280. the last two starting OGs were in their 280s, I think. Harrisson is not huge. You can't move anyone with those 'shrimpos' inside. and you're vulnerable to the bum rush salad toss. it's ugly!! we've seen it.

Now, with WRs, I'm totally against overpaying for anyone. BB has won plenty of championships picking up the latest Randy Moss or Amendola or Welker or whomever at the end of preseason. So, it's not necessary to draft them. And you need to be ready to "win now" to draft a WR in the 1st round, otherwise, it's a waste. IMO, the Jets WR corps that finished the season had plenty of talent. No need to overpay for anyone. And, like the RB, QB,  and TE positions, it's really about the OL anyway. So, yeah, if someone unexpectedly good at WR is available with a 2nd round pick, sure take him. But I think the Jets need a BIG WR like Cooper to round out a quick, little corps: crowder, berrio, smith. these guys have shown ability. and with an offseason, why wouldn't they pick right up where they've left off? especially if they get some players-initiated practice? I'm not worried at all about WR. Even if Anderson leaves via free agency because I think they already have contingency plans and Anderson is a nice story, not an indispensable player. Cooper way over Anderson btw.

And, really, the needs, in order, are OT, OG, CB, Edge,WR.

I'd like the Jets to get a OT and OG using FA and their first pick in the draft. I'd like the Jets to luck out and get an [effective] edge rusher with their second pick. I'd like to see Jenkins retained. Man, I want to see some hogs up front!!

The organization cheated with the blessing on the league and they had goats in Tom Brady and BB. 

The jets organization is amongst the worst in the league and they have a 3rd year QB who's bottom 10 in the league and a bottom 10 head coach. 

 

Using the Patriots in any capacity as a comparison of what the Jets should/shouldnt do isnt really relevant. Tom Brady makes players around him better, Sam Darnold needs better players around him. BB is arguably the greatest coach ever and one of the best GM's in the league. Adam Gase is a terrible coach and Joe Douglas is 1 year and and STILL a mystery because of how terrible this organization handled the GM position. 

The Patriots were in position to be totally against overpaying for anyone, the didnt even pay Brady. The Jets are in no position to do anything near what they Patriots have done. 

[TNJet]

On 2/27/2020 at 2:01 PM, Warfish said:

Just heard Trump will win again...

[Lith]

Interesting nugget in Connor Hughes column in the Ahtletic.  Not going to copy and paste it here since it is behind a pay wall.  But he said an agent he spoke with felt that Robby's market may not be as robust as he expects.  Given the depth of the draft, Robby's market may not exceed $9M to $10M per year. 

Hope that is true.  At $9M to $10M per year, no reason to let him go.  This would also explain JD's comments about trying to keep Robby after it seemed he was destined to leave. 

[johnnyjet]

Cooper all day over Robbie. 

[Mogglez]

I'm starting to seriously doubt Cooper even hits FA.

[jgb]

On 2/27/2020 at 8:54 PM, SR24 said:

We can't afford either. If Robby is going to get $15mil, Coopers gonna get $18-20 easy

Who else would you spend 80 mill on?

On 2/28/2020 at 5:23 AM, Philc1 said:

Neither.

 

 

both are going to be insanely overpriced 

Market sets price. 

On 2/28/2020 at 5:56 AM, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I wouldn't try to sign either of them. We have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. I pray that Joe D uses 2 of those picks on wrs. (And the other 2 on olineman) 

 

Yeah let’s put our faith in the draft. What could go wrong?

[SR24]

25 minutes ago, jgb said:

Who else would you spend 80 mill on?

Market sets price. 

Yeah let’s put our faith in the draft. What could go wrong?

I'd spend the  75 mil on filling the holes that we made to get 80mil in cap space first, then I'd probably use what's left to get some OL help and then I'd look at resigning Robby when he comes back to reality and realizes he's not worth anywhere near $15mil/year. I love the 80mil in cap space theory you realize in order to get that we cut 3 corners, Winters, Enunuwa, Bellamy and Avery right?While also losing our Beachum,Lewis,Jenkins, both our backup QBs and our Punter to free agency.  We have to spend money to replace them. Then we should probably resign Poole 8-9mil/year, plus bringing back Beachum another 8mil at least probably more and i'm sure we'll resign some other players as well. Then you have to leave around 8-10mil in cap to sign your draft picks. Realistically we'll enter free agency with about 30-50mil  needing to desperately add a GOOD corner, atleast 1 Olineman and hopefully an edge rusher plus some other depth guys. If you think this teams in a position to pay Robby 15mil/year then idk what to tell ya man. Highest I'd go is 11mil anything else is just too much especially with how deep this draft is at WR

[phill1c]

On ‎2‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 6:05 AM, Villain The Foe said:

The organization cheated with the blessing on the league and they had goats in Tom Brady and BB. 

The jets organization is amongst the worst in the league and they have a 3rd year QB who's bottom 10 in the league and a bottom 10 head coach. 

 

Using the Patriots in any capacity as a comparison of what the Jets should/shouldnt do isnt really relevant. Tom Brady makes players around him better, Sam Darnold needs better players around him. BB is arguably the greatest coach ever and one of the best GM's in the league. Adam Gase is a terrible coach and Joe Douglas is 1 year and and STILL a mystery because of how terrible this organization handled the GM position. 

The Patriots were in position to be totally against overpaying for anyone, the didnt even pay Brady. The Jets are in no position to do anything near what they Patriots have done. 

So, if I understand this correctly, you're saying that my general policy of not overpaying for WRs is incorrect because "how DARE I compare the Jets to the Patriots..."?!

First of all, it's a stupid contention for several reasons.

1. Of course I should compare the Jets to the Patriots. The Patriots are the Gold Standard for this division, this conference and, a year ago, this NFL. So, if I'm not comparing the Jets to them, since we're talking about pretending to be a GM for an NFL team, it would be the height of stupid ignorance not to compare what my team does vs. what one of the most winning franchise in all team sports is doing. Maybe if I emulate what the Pats do, you know, to win, maybe the Jets could win.

So, what the f*ck are you thinking?

2. It's not a perfect solution to not draft WRs high either. It's just not often worked out for the Jets. You know, Stephen Hill, Johnny Lamb Jones, the guy from Ohio State, the guy they took in the 2nd round the year they took Keyshawn Johnson. The list may go on, i'm no expert ;-).

I think the main belief I have is that if you have the opportunity to draft a great BIG GUY vs. a great little guy at the top the draft, take the great big guy. Great little guys can be had later. And especially in this case where the current Jets OL is bereft of any great BIG or little guys. Whereas the Jets already have Crowder, Smith, Berrio, some TEs, Leveon Bell. He just has no time to get the ball to them.

 

Oh, and I'm sorry my opinion upset you so much to take the time to write something so bereft of football content..."how DARE I compare the Jets to Patriots..." How dare you NOT?!

[Villain The Foe]

44 minutes ago, phill1c said:

So, if I understand this correctly, you're saying that my general policy of not overpaying for WRs is incorrect because "how DARE I compare the Jets to the Patriots..."?!

Yes, given that this is how you decided to support your general policy. 

The rest of that was tl;dr

[phill1c]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Yes, given that this is how you decided to support your general policy. 

The rest of that was tl;dr

Ok, I'm happy with my viewpoint and thank you for offering a distinctly opposing viewpoint. the forum at work...

[Villain The Foe]

11 hours ago, phill1c said:

Ok, I'm happy with my viewpoint and thank you for offering a distinctly opposing viewpoint. the forum at work...

For sure.

It's great that you're happy with the viewpoint you posted, and I'm just as happy to be critical of if when need be. 

Forums are awesome tools. 

[Jetsfan80]

Neither.  

[Losmeister]

On 2/27/2020 at 7:42 PM, GREENBEAN said:

I'm not too worried about the contracts like so many others are.

[Jet Nut]

On 2/27/2020 at 9:56 PM, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

I wouldn't try to sign either of them. We have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds. I pray that Joe D uses 2 of those picks on wrs. (And the other 2 on olineman) 

 

Not enough.

Draft 2 and let one go in FA?

Net one addition to the offense.  Add 2 draftees at a position that historically doesnt produce more than what a RA or AC would produce.  Still have to add receivers if the idea is to help Darnold.

[Jethead]

On 2/28/2020 at 12:20 PM, Villain The Foe said:

Outbid everyone for Cooper (#1 WR solidified). 

Trade down in this draft (The top 3 OT's will be off the board by the time pick 11 comes around.) and pick up the top center and guards in the draft along with drafting another WR in a deep WR class that you'll be able to put into Cooper's spot when it's time for him to walk and for the Jets to provide a payday for. 

Folks keep complaining about the money/price. One of the least valuable assets IS the money because the cap goes up every year, as well as players price. Every year we hear about how how pricey a player is and then 2 seasons later the contract is pretty much "team friendly". 

The bottomline is that you'll have to overpay in order for players to consider playing for a sh*tty team. Afterall, they risk future HOF status and legacy. Just look at the season LeVeon Bell just had as an example. 

We have a QB on a rookie deal and I'm not excited to see the Jets squander yet another rookie because of undervaluing the offensive line and receiving targets because of "price" and drafting defense. 

Developing Darnold is more important and is worth overpaying Cooper in order to get him here. We're not the Chiefs where the team is so stacked guys like Sammy Watkins is willing to take a paycut to remain with a championship-caliber team. 

Teams like the Jets overpay for the talent while teams like the Chiefs watch their players negotiate prices in order to provide "team friendly" deals. 

 

Darnold is more important than being cheap, and the Jets are not in position for players not to take advantage of the fact that the Jets have no talent. Over pay now, compensate later with drafting well. 

 

Generally speaking, the money is irrelevant. 

Agree about the money. Disagree about what to do with it.

Better the diva we know (Robby) vs the diva we don't (Cooper).

Spend the $ on linemen, CB's and resigning our own key guys.

[Villain The Foe]

36 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Agree about the money. Disagree about what to do with it.

Neither of us possess the money, so that's cool. 

Quote

Better the diva we know (Robby) vs the diva we don't (Cooper).

What does this mean? Im looking for the best football players who stay on the field to give this money to. If we're able to get a true #1 receiver by paying 4 million more dollars, then I dont care what "diva" status you're referring to since that clearly has nothing to do with the game itself. 

Quote

Spend the $ on linemen, CB's and resigning our own key guys.

We should do this too, though outside of Robby, there are really no key guys to resign given that this team is devoid of talent. The fact that I'd consider replacing Robby with Cooper in terms of investment shows that Robby as a #2 WR is not more important than a #1 receiver...which means that he can be replaced if a better option comes around. 

[genot]

46 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

Some of these posters must spend a lot of time with their coupon books.

[GKnight83]

I am not a Cooper fan either.  Also, do not count the Jets out for drafting a WR with pick 11.  Thinking otherwise would be quite foolish at this point.

[More Cowbell]

On 2/27/2020 at 12:24 PM, UnknownJetFan said:

WR Anderson vs. Cooper (Who to go all in with for Jets?). That's my question, if Cooper is available. Cooper is a moire complete WR so would it be that rather than pay Robby we just let him walk and pay Cooper?. Note that Cooper(25 yrs old) is actually 1 year younger than Robby(26 yrs old). And, since it likely would be the Jets choice that the 1st round draft pick results in either an OT or perhaps one of the best non-Chase Young Edge rushers, we are probably looking at a WR in round 2 or 3 that while this is a deep class there may be a guy that at best for a while gets on the field as a number 4/5 WR for a while. Thoughts?.  

It's a no brainer. You take Cooper.

[Jethead]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Neither of us possess the money, so that's cool. 

What does this mean? Im looking for the best football players who stay on the field to give this money to. If we're able to get a true #1 receiver by paying 4 million more dollars, then I dont care what "diva" status you're referring to since that clearly has nothing to do with the game itself. 

We should do this too, though outside of Robby, there are really no key guys to resign given that this team is devoid of talent. The fact that I'd consider replacing Robby with Cooper in terms of investment shows that Robby as a #2 WR is not more important than a #1 receiver...which means that he can be replaced if a better option comes around. 

I think Cooper is soft. Not worth a premium over Robby. Both have the diva gene.

I want to keep Poole, Jenkins, extend Jamal - essentially spend some $ on guys who we already have who are talented and worth committing to.

[Villain The Foe]

18 minutes ago, Jethead said:

I think Cooper is soft. Not worth a premium over Robby. Both have the diva gene.

I want to keep Poole, Jenkins, extend Jamal - essentially spend some $ on guys who we already have who are talented and worth committing to.

Cooper is a lot of things. One of the things he happens to be is a legit #1 receiver. 

Is he the best #1 receiver in the league? No. Is he a #1 that could be available? Yes. However, The Jets need talent and can pay for talent. To pass on a guy because of the words diva and the opinion of a guy being soft simply doesnt cut it. 

I'd rather pay for a soft #1 than a diva #2 when I know that it's harder to draft a #1 than it is drafting a #2. 

 

Sam Darnold needs the best talent available. I simply dont know what diva means in relation to football. Is Cooper/Anderson a lockerroom cancer? 

No. So they can be all the diva they want to be, for as long as it doesnt negatively impact the team. 

If we cant get Cooper, cool. Keep Anderson, but if we have the opportunity to get a #1 receiver then do it. 

 

[Philc1]

On 2/28/2020 at 2:13 PM, GREENBEAN said:

Especially after using last year's first t grab him. That was when he thought he had a Super Bowl team though. Cooper rounded that off nicely.  Who knows what that old coot is thinking these days? 

Just knowing Jerry’s personality there’s no way he lets Cooper just walk

[Philc1]

On 3/1/2020 at 9:04 AM, jgb said:

Who else would you spend 80 mill on?

Market sets price. 

Yeah let’s put our faith in the draft. What could go wrong?

We don’t need to spend $80 million to get Cooper or $50 million to keep Robby 

 

Trade a late rd pick for Alshon Jeffery and draft Jeudy.  We upgrade at WR without even spending money

 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

We don’t need to spend $80 million to get Cooper or $50 million to keep Robby 

 

Trade a late rd pick for Alshon Jeffery and draft Jeudy.  We upgrade at WR without even spending money

 

I think it’ll be hard to spend that money. Cap space means nothing to me as a fan.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

I think it’ll be hard to spend that money. Cap space means nothing to me as a fan.

Well it means something when your team has to acquire players

 

Spend the $60 mil in cap room on Thuney, Conklin and resigning Beachum