Would You "Exchange" Darnold For One Of The 2020 QB Prospects ???

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

He's also 6 months older than Sam (not "than Sam was on draft day two years ago." Just "than Sam")

Irrelevant.

Sam going to the NFL too young and clearly before he should have doesn't diminish Burrow as a prospect.

Like I said in my OP, it may or not mean anything long term, but Burrow is clearly a better prospect coming out today than Sam was a prospect coming out in 2018. 

So far, Sam is a below average NFL QB by every metric.  We'll see how Borrows and Sam play in 2020.

(In before Jets Fans start claiming the Bengals were a great team and spot for Burrows to land, and that is why he produced more than Sam in 2020, lol).

[Jets723]

Look I’m a Darnold fan.  I wanted to select him for a year.  However I can’t tell you for sure which QB will end up being very good.  Do I believe Sam will be? Absolutely. Do I Feel Sam has things to work on? Absolutely.   I think we can all agree Sam has had no oline and limited weapons to work with. Not saying he isn’t excused for mistakes but that makes a HUGE difference.  When I see other bigtime QBs they all have great protection and better weapons.  You need to have a support system around you no matter how good of a QB you are in order to have success.  So I’m happy with Sam and I wouldn’t change him as our QB

[Jets723]

Just now, Jets723 said:

Look I’m a Darnold fan.  I wanted to select him for a year.  However I can’t tell you for sure which QB will end up being very good.  Do I believe Sam will be? Absolutely. Do I Feel Sam has things to work on? Absolutely.   I think we can all agree Sam has had no oline and limited weapons to work with. Not saying he is excused for mistakes but that makes a HUGE difference.  When I see other bigtime QBs they all have great protection and better weapons.  You need to have a support system around you no matter how good of a QB you are in order to have success.  So I’m happy with Sam and I wouldn’t change him as our QB

 

[Losmeister]

this jetnation crush on sam is weird..     so far he's like the hot chick whose bad at sex...

[Jethead]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Burrow didn't come out "before his breakout year".  He's coming out now.  The comparison being made is when the two entered the NFL.

And now, he is a better prospect than Darnold was in 2018 when he entered the league. 

There is no question who the overall #1 pick is going to be this year.  No real debate.  That could not be said when Sam was coming out.

If Sam was an equal prospect when he came out, he would have been the unquestioned #1 overall pick. 

He wasn't.  Burrow will be.

Of course I don't expect the homer contingent to agree.  You people already think Sam is better than every other QB but Mahomes, and some of you in this very thread would prefer Sam to Mahomes.  You are, of course, entitled to your (IMO) fantasy world.

If Tua hadn't messed up his hip Burrow would not be the unquestioned #1.

Practically speaking, we have 2 years invested in Sam and no reason to think that with the right team around him he can't lead the Jets to the top. What would be the value in starting over???

[14 in Green]

40 minutes ago, Jethead said:

If Tua hadn't messed up his hip Burrow would not be the unquestioned #1.

Practically speaking, we have 2 years invested in Sam and no reason to think that with the right team around him he can't lead the Jets to the top. What would be the value in starting over???

That last sentence sums up how I feel about this. At this point, two years in, we ride it out for now, and hope for that "progression" we always talk about. We are 2 years in with him though, and I haven't seen anything yet that makes me think he'll ever become anything near a elite top 5 type QB..

I think even his biggest supporters would admit they thought he'd be better then he's been so far, and it has always amazed me how just like in the old Roy Clark classic "Yesterday", they continue to "wave his age as if it were a magic wand." 

Lets be honest, if he was another guy on another team, and you saw two years of bottom five results, the majority opinion would be a dismissive, "he came out way too early". Why is Sam the only player I can think of where his fans use his lack of experience playing the position, and his coming out too soon as a reason for hope, instead of regret? I just don't understand the reasoning...

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

You mean Trevor Lawrence ??? Gotta wait another year for him..

I can wait.

[UntouchableCrew]

I'm a Tua fan. If he didn't have the injury history I'd have to think long and hard about it. I love his skillset and intangibles. But guys who are smaller and constantly injured in college rarely buck that trend in the NFL.

Herbert is a stiff. Big, athletic, smart, checks all the boxes... But he's just not that good. Isn't fluid, bad instincts, not clutch. I've never felt like he was an NFL QB watching him at Oregon. He's the prototype of overdrafted guys who never click, IMO.

Burrow was sensational last year. But man, before that he wasn't even on the radar. Without that system and infrastructure, am I sure he'd be all that? Even moreso, is Adam Gase the guy who's gonna get it out of him? I don't see it.

So long story short -- probably not. I still believe in Darnold and while I was underwhelmed with his sophomore campaign I think he had significant obstacles to overcome and I'm hopefully he can blossom with more around him. He's still a full year younger than Burrow. He was always young and raw.

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, Jethead said:

If Tua hadn't messed up his hip Burrow would not be the unquestioned #1.

I wouldn't bet money on that.

24 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Practically speaking, we have 2 years invested in Sam

We do. 

And only two years and an option year now remaining before we either:  

1. Pay him a ton of money.

2. Let him walk.

24 minutes ago, Jethead said:

and no reason to think that with the right team around him he can't lead the Jets to the top.

We have many reasons to believe Darnold will not be an elite or top-10. 

They're just ignored by Jets Fans because "Sam is already the best QB in the NFL other than maybe Mahomes, maybe, he's like Aaron Rodgers with elite accuracy and skills!". 

24 minutes ago, Jethead said:

What would be the value in starting over???

Who is suggesting we "start over"?  

That's not what this thread is about or what the OP asked.  And it's certainly not what I said.

Since you ask, the value in starting over is to not waste years on a guy who isn't a potential Title winner type. 

I honestly don't know if Sam is or isn't, he certainly isn't in the ballpark so far, but we'll see.  

[slats]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Burrow didn't come out "before his breakout year".  He's coming out now.  The comparison being made is when the two entered the NFL.

And now, he is a better prospect than Darnold was in 2018 when he entered the league. 

There is no question who the overall #1 pick is going to be this year.  No real debate.  That could not be said when Sam was coming out.

If Sam was an equal prospect when he came out, he would have been the unquestioned #1 overall pick. 

He wasn't.  Burrow will be.

Of course I don't expect the homer contingent to agree.  You people already think Sam is better than every other QB but Mahomes, and some of you in this very thread would prefer Sam to Mahomes.  You are, of course, entitled to your (IMO) fantasy world.

On the second day of March in 2018, Sam Darnold was the unquestioned #1 overall pick. 

[southparkcpa]

We need a poll for the dumbest thread of the year... this one must be mentioned.

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

On the second day of March in 2018, Sam Darnold was the unquestioned #1 overall pick. 

Certainly not in YOUR opinion he wasn't.

Do we need to re-post your various doubts and criticisms of Sam and how you didn't want him again?

[slimjasi]

If Tua didn't have major durability issues, I would at least consider it. 

But Tua staying on the field is a major hypothetical and I would hard pass on everyone else in this draft class. 

The other thing about Darnold is that he has the right demeanor for NY and you never know how one of these young QBs is going to handle the spotlight. 

[slats]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Certainly not in YOUR opinion he wasn't.

Do we need to re-post your various doubts and criticisms of Sam and how you didn't want him again?

Regardless of any gotcha games you might want to play with me, Darnold was the consensus, expected #1 pick in the 2018 draft right up until the night before -or maybe even the morning of- the draft, when the news broke that Dorsey was going to take Mayfield, instead. That's pretty easy to verify. 

So your argument that Joe Burrow being the consensus #1 today makes him a better prospect than Sam is pretty weak. There may be other arguments, but that one sucks. And I agree with others here that he'd probably be behind Tua if Tua was healthy. 

[Lurker89]

None of these prospects blow me away, with regards to Sam. Not a question in my mind, I'll stick with Sam.

I like Sam and think he does a lot of good things. I see major gaps in his decision making at times, I also see stretches of exceptional play. He is a better prospect than we have had in a long time and I won't mind watching it play out, fully expecting pain.

I'll let the rest of the board lend themselves to hyperbole, anointing him savior or grooming his replacement.

FA Signings and the draft can't come soon enough.

[deucebag]

15 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Would You "Exchange" Daronld For One Of The 2020 QB Prospects ???  I'd exchange him for Justin Herbert...

 

IMO Nobody in this years overhyped class has the upside of Darnold.

 

In terms of ceiling I rate this years class as follows (I think Eason is the goods):

1. Jacob Eason

2. Justin Herbert

3. Joe Burrow

4. Tua

5. Jordan Love

6. James Morgan

7. Jake Fromm

[deucebag]

15 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Maybe. Have to see what the QBASE numbers are for these guys first. Darnold was pretty much a 50/50 shot when drafted, which is a bit low but given the raw talent I thought it was worth it. Numbers from his first two years aren't promising so the odds have dropped probably by quite a bit. It's not common for sophomores to put up DYAR and DVOA numbers like Darnold's and then turn it all around within a year or two.

Basically, you're betting on the improbability of Darnold turning it around in the short-term against the probability of Burrow or Herbert having immediate success; and we don't know what the latter odds are for a few more weeks.

50/50?  Really?    Darnold has been a victim of a combination of illness, incompetent coaching and arguably the worst supporting cast in the NFL during his first two seasons.   

[The Crimson King]

15 hours ago, SAR I said:

Because since giving up prematurely on Mark Sanchez we've had such a great run at QB in the 8 years that have passed.

SAR I

yeah, I hate it when they give up too early on a player and he goes on to have a stellar career elsewhere  

 

[Fantasy Island]

I would "exchange" Adam Gase for Marvin Lewis.

Yep, Gase is that bad.

[Losmeister]

53 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Lets be honest, if he was another guy on another team, and you saw two years of bottom five results, the majority opinion would be, "he came out way too early". Sam is the only player I can think of where his fans use that as a reason for hope, instead of regret.

Me? Just waiting to see if him perform as  good as Fitzmagic, which he has not yet done. 

[nj meadowlands]

13 hours ago, Warfish said:

Burrow is a better prospect than Sam was.

May not mean anything long-run, but it is what it is.

LOL

[nj meadowlands]

:: clicks to see what posters voted for Joe Burrow ::

:: belly laughs ::

:: employs the JN ignore feature for said posters ::

[Warfish]

16 minutes ago, slats said:

Regardless of any gotcha games you might want to play with me

Reminding you of your own position at the time is not a "gotcha game" slats.  

You didn't want Sam Darnold.  He was not YOUR consensus #1 overall pick.  

 

 

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

LOL

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-joe-burrow-best-prospect-2020-nfl-draft

"Joe Burrow is the best prospect in the 2020 Draft".

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-ranking-the-qb-prospects-for-the-2018-nfl-draft

"There’s no consensus top quarterback in the draft class" before they rank Mayfield the top prospect.

Darnold was not a consensus #1/#1 prospect.  Barkley was.  Then there was a debate (endless for those who choose to actually remember it) as to who the "best QB prospect" was.  Some had Darnold.  Some didn't.

Who knew homerism caused retroactive Alzheimers.

[PCP63]

13 hours ago, Larz said:

Nope. Rookies are all unknowns 

we know what Sam is and he’s still very young 

he’s faced every NFL front, coverage and blitz there is and is going to play in the same offense in back to back year’s for the first time in his life 

I’d like to see what he can do 

I'm going to get crucified for this, but I think that's why we need to move on from Sam: because we do know what he is. He's a guy that can make some great throws, but crumbles under pressure and makes some terrible decisions. Football IQ can be fixed. Mechanics can be fixed. Bad decision-making? I'm not so sure. Even if he turns it around, I don't think he's a guy that we win the Superbowl with. Now, of course I hope I'm proven wrong, but I'm perfectly okay with cutting bait "too early."

 

Someone mentioned us prematurely giving up on Sanchez. IMO, we gave him too long. And the game is different now anyways, in that QBs are expected to, and do, immediately perform well. I just don't see him making the jump we need to become perennial contenders.

 

With that said, I haven't done the slightest bit of research on any prospects this year, so no idea if I'd exchange him for any of them.

[JustInFudge]

I think this QB class sucks.  So no. 

Tua is an eggshell who I wouldnt trust 1 bit to be able to stay healthy. Not just the hip, the ankles too or he'd be the best prospect.  I've got a solid feeling Burrow is bust central.  Call it a hunch but I think he's more of the 2018 player than he is 2019.  That system, those players, going to be a very big change in the NFL.  

Honestly, the dude I feel best about is Jacob Eason and I think he's a bust too.

 

[PCP63]

15 hours ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

No. I would consider Mahomes and that's it. And even that's not a definite

This has to be the dumbest post I have ever read on this forum. Comparing Sam to a guy that could probably make it into the HoF based off of just two amazing years alone . . . 

 

Crack is a helluva drug.

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

This has to be the dumbest post I have ever read on this forum. Comparing Sam to a guy that could probably make it into the HoF based off of just two amazing years alone . . . 

 

Crack is a helluva drug.

+1

If anyone wants to know why I always seem so frustrated with my fellow fans lack of critical and objective thinking, it's posts like that one, all too common.

[Daddy Wang Doodle]

4 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

This has to be the dumbest post I have ever read on this forum. Comparing Sam to a guy that could probably make it into the HoF based off of just two amazing years alone . . . 

 

Crack is a helluva drug.

Give me the guy who doesn't have 2 back-breaking super bowl INT's

[BigRy56]

Exchange the best young QB not named Mahomes or Watson for a prospect? No thank you...

[nj meadowlands]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-joe-burrow-best-prospect-2020-nfl-draft

"Joe Burrow is the best prospect in the 2020 Draft".

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-ranking-the-qb-prospects-for-the-2018-nfl-draft

"There’s no consensus top quarterback in the draft class" before they rank Mayfield the top prospect.

Darnold was not a consensus #1/#1 prospect.  Barkley was.  Then there was a debate (endless for those who choose to actually remember it) as to who the "best QB prospect" was.  Some had Darnold.  Some didn't.

Who knew homerism caused retroactive Alzheimers.

More poisonous than even rank homerism is your nagging Knowitallism.  Pervasive throughout all threads and across all forums.  Truly a pandemic worse than Coronavirus.

[slats]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Reminding you of your own position at the time is not a "gotcha game" slats.  

You didn't want Sam Darnold.  He was not YOUR consensus #1 overall pick.  

So what? I'm not the consensus. I learn about draft prospects when they make themselves eligible for the draft. I barely looked into Darnold, because I never expected him to be there at #3. See, because the consensus at the time had Sam #1 right up until the eve of the draft: a fact you seem unwilling to acknowledge or dispute, preferring this unrelated obfuscation, instead. 

[PCP63]

4 minutes ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

Give me the guy who doesn't have 2 back-breaking super bowl INT's

And instead trade him for a guy that will never, ever get to the Superbowl because he not only throws terrible INTs, but also has an issue throwing TDs and not fumbling?

[PCP63]

4 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Exchange the best young QB not named Mahomes or Watson for a prospect? No thank you...

Putting him above the 23-year-old league MVP. Nice.

[Daddy Wang Doodle]

2 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

And instead trade him for a guy that will never, ever get to the Superbowl because he not only throws terrible INTs, but also has an issue throwing TDs and not fumbling?