Would You "Exchange" Darnold For One Of The 2020 QB Prospects ???

[14 in Green]

16 hours ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

No. I would consider Mahomes and that's it. And even that's not a definite

 

30 minutes ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

Give me the guy who doesn't have 2 back-breaking super bowl INT's

I'm just going to leave these two posts here, and not comment on them, except to say I think it's telling that the "troll police" are nowhere to be found right now... 

[SAR I]

47 minutes ago, The Crimson King said:

yeah, I hate it when they give up too early on a player and he goes on to have a stellar career elsewhere  

 

Brett Favre was a joke in Atlanta.  Where you play and who you play for matters.

Steve Young was a joke in Tampa.  Where you play and who you play for matters.

No Idzik, no Ryan, no injury, new GM, new offensive HC, new offensive coordinator, who knows, Mark might have had his issues corrected and had a great career.

SAR I

[varjet]

I am happy with Darnold in the grand scheme of things, and we are far from the point where we are letting him walk like Mariota and Winston.

The reason that I would trade Darnold for Burrow straight up today is that Burrow would have 5 years left on his rookie contract, and it will be easier for Douglas to build a team around him to coincide with his 3rd year and possible Super Bowl.

In Douglas' third year Darnold will be making alot of money, so there will be less to spend on other players.  The ultimate challenge for a GM is to remain in contention while paying a QB.  Yes, the Patriots, Packers, Saints and Seahawks have done it, but look at their coaching and GM/drafting.  

Otherwise, from a talent perspective they are sort of a toss up when you take age into account, although I am somewhat partial to the guy from gritty Ohio rather than sunny California.  

[PCP63]

3 minutes ago, varjet said:

I am happy with Darnold in the grand scheme of things, and we are far from the point where we are letting him walk like Mariota and Winston.

The reason that I would trade Darnold for Burrow straight up today is that Burrow would have 5 years left on his rookie contract, and it will be easier for Douglas to build a team around him to coincide with his 3rd year and possible Super Bowl.

In Douglas' third year Darnold will be making alot of money, so there will be less to spend on other players.  The ultimate challenge for a GM is to remain in contention while paying a QB.  Yes, the Patriots, Packers, Saints and Seahawks have done it, but look at their coaching and GM/drafting.  

Otherwise, from a talent perspective they are sort of a toss up when you take age into account, although I am somewhat partial to the guy from gritty Ohio rather than sunny California.  

Honestly, I still dream of a team that is built so well, that you don't need an absolute stud at QB to win year after year.

 

Imagine how much relief it would be to not have to put any more stock in a QB than you would have to in an ILB, for example.

[Losmeister]

28 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

More poisonous than even rank homerism is your nagging Knowitallism.  Pervasive throughout all threads and across all forums.  Truly a pandemic worse than Coronavirus.

something that infects one host is not a pandemic

[Warfish]

41 minutes ago, slats said:

So what? I'm not the consensus.

I presumed you knew what "consensus" meant. 

Apparently not.

41 minutes ago, slats said:

See, because the consensus at the time had Sam #1 right up until the eve of the draft: 

Except he wasn't, and I've already provided one linked source proving it.  

[Warfish]

43 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

More poisonous than even rank homerism is your nagging Knowitallism.  Pervasive throughout all threads and across all forums.  Truly a pandemic worse than Coronavirus.

Oh yes, being right on the facts, that's the real evil.  

[nico002]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Burrow didn't come out "before his breakout year".  He's coming out now.  The comparison being made is when the two entered the NFL.

And now, he is a better prospect than Darnold was in 2018 when he entered the league. 

There is no question who the overall #1 pick is going to be this year.  No real debate.  That could not be said when Sam was coming out.

If Sam was an equal prospect when he came out, he would have been the unquestioned #1 overall pick. 

He wasn't.  Burrow will be.

Of course I don't expect the homer contingent to agree.  You people already think Sam is better than every other QB but Mahomes, and some of you in this very thread would prefer Sam to Mahomes.  You are, of course, entitled to your (IMO) fantasy world.

Burrow is the #1 pick because Tua got hurt. 
 

Darnold wasn’t the #1 only because Cleveland is bat sh*t crazy 

[JetBlue]

14 hours ago, LSJF said:

Sticking w Sam, that is he plays a full season with a line that can buy him an extra second, or open up some holes so that we’d actually have a threat of a running game... A good Receiver as well....no QB is going to be successful without the above...Sam is the man, let’s let him develop... 

THIS.  He needs to stay healthy and play a full season.  Granted him getting injured his first year was probably a blessing in disguise as he played much better when he returned, but we can't have him missing 4 - 6 games every year.   This season he needs to play at least 13 - 14 games if not all 16.  (And playoffs... We can dream right?)

[JetBlue]

23 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

Honestly, I still dream of a team that is built so well, that you don't need an absolute stud at QB to win year after year.

 

Imagine how much relief it would be to not have to put any more stock in a QB than you would have to in an ILB, for example.

That sounds like the 49ers and they went up against a team that was also built well but also had an absolute stud at QB....   But I get your point.  If we can build a San Fran level team around Sam, (who I think is more talented than Joey G.)  the sky would be the limit. 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, deucebag said:

50/50?  Really?    Darnold has been a victim of a combination of illness, incompetent coaching and arguably the worst supporting cast in the NFL during his first two seasons.   

50/50 on draft day:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/qbase-2018

He was actually more like 48/52, but factor in an error term and it's even give or take a point or two either way.

That number has, in all likelihood, decreased. Freshman numbers are generally a wash but sophomore DYAR is telling. Maybe Darnold eventually turns it around, but the probability of him turning it around within the next year or two to adequate starter or upper tier DYAR is lower now than it was in 2018. Thus lower than 50/50. More data = more certainty.

In terms of all the other excuses, sure, maybe. But the only thing the Jets should be concerned with is predictability. Best to default to Occam's Razor in instances like this.

[RutgersJetFan]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Amazing that this post got 3 neg reps and a butt fumble.

The #NumbersAreGay crew are alive and well.  

Neg rep about anything empirical is directly proportional to posters that refer to Darnold as Sam.

[Daddy Wang Doodle]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

 

I'm just going to leave these two posts here, and not comment on them, except to say I think it's telling that the "troll police" are nowhere to be found right now... 

All I'm saying is Darnold has 0 playoff losses and 0 playoff interceptions. These are #facts

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, slats said:

So what? I'm not the consensus. I learn about draft prospects when they make themselves eligible for the draft. I barely looked into Darnold, because I never expected him to be there at #3. See, because the consensus at the time had Sam #1 right up until the eve of the draft: a fact you seem unwilling to acknowledge or dispute, preferring this unrelated obfuscation, instead. 

You are arguing with someone who tried to convince the board that Darnold and Adams aren't famous/well-known athletes around the country. 

I'd suggest saving your energy. 

[slats]

41 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I presumed you knew what "consensus" meant. 

Apparently not.

Except he wasn't, and I've already provided one linked source proving it.  

Lol @ "proving." 

You bob and weave, but you never make contact. 

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You are arguing with someone who tried to convince the board that Darnold and Adams aren't famous/well-known athletes around the country. 

I'd suggest saving your energy. 

Yes,  apparently in our Nation's Capital it is impossible to hear mention of them in any forum.  Or, at least the am radio station he listens to during his commute.  I'm sure that none of my friend's noticed that non-stop slobberjob they were giving to Adams during the DB section of the combine all day on Sunday.   I bet the Bills fan that I watched with had no idea who Adams was - despite the fact that he was telling me they would regret trading him.

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, deucebag said:

50/50?  Really?    Darnold has been a victim of a combination of illness, incompetent coaching and arguably the worst supporting cast in the NFL during his first two seasons.   

I am sure that when Joe Douglas is analyzing the QB position, victim is exactly what he is looking for.  

[Warfish]

30 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol @ "proving." 

You bob and weave, but you never make contact. 

Cool story bro.

[jgb]

No. Draft a crapshoot. Darnold has shown he probably doesn’t totally suck.

[Philc1]

No

[Wonderboy]

5 hours ago, Losmeister said:

this jetnation crush on sam is weird..     so far he's like the hot chick whose bad at sex...

at least he gets chicks

[Philc1]

None of these guys are going to be as good as Sam

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

Burrow didn't come out "before his breakout year".  He's coming out now.  The comparison being made is when the two entered the NFL.

And now, he is a better prospect than Darnold was in 2018 when he entered the league. 

There is no question who the overall #1 pick is going to be this year.  No real debate.  That could not be said when Sam was coming out.

If Sam was an equal prospect when he came out, he would have been the unquestioned #1 overall pick. 

He wasn't.  Burrow will be.

Of course I don't expect the homer contingent to agree.  You people already think Sam is better than every other QB but Mahomes, and some of you in this very thread would prefer Sam to Mahomes.  You are, of course, entitled to your (IMO) fantasy world.

I have no idea where you get this from.  Burrow wasn't a top prospect.  You need to follow college ball. He left Ohio State because he wasn't one and wanted to play after sitting 2 years behind JT Barret.  He was then ticketed to back up Haskins so he transferred to LSU

Darnold was a hot prospect from the moment he was on USC.  Then when he played as a sophomore and then when he was the top prospect after his Jr season. 

Darnold was the top QB prospect to most his draft season, after a down year that most knew was because of all the graduates that left after his sophomore season.  And Darnold came out in a year that everyone called the top QB class in years.

Not in a season where Burrow is the only top prospect given Tuas injury and Hebert a 2nd tier QB if not for the lack of QBs

 

[Wonderboy]

3 hours ago, SAR I said:

Brett Favre was a joke in Atlanta.  Where you play and who you play for matters.

Steve Young was a joke in Tampa.  Where you play and who you play for matters.

No Idzik, no Ryan, no injury, new GM, new offensive HC, new offensive coordinator, who knows, Mark might have had his issues corrected and had a great career.

SAR I

To criticize Sam after just 2 years is beyond belief when you consider he was first under the Dumb and Dumber regime - Macc and Bowles.  He had had zero support from a GM that ignored setting him up for success.  And Bowles had equally zero offensive sense to improve his inception into the NFL. Add Gase to the mix in year 2 and its a miracle the kid has displayed any success whatsoever.  Sam has very little protection constantly running for his life, no time to set up, a lousy running game, average WR's.  And yet people on here expect him to be the next Joe Namath already.  Next year, if JD pulls the right strings, Sam will thrive.  He'll have protection, weapons and hopefully a coach who can game plan around his strengths. The sky's the limit for Sammy Boy.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

I presumed you knew what "consensus" meant. 

Apparently not.

Except he wasn't, and I've already provided one linked source proving it.  

I do

Its like when everyone had Darnold at the top of his draft class until the Browns, right or wrong, went with Baker.  Which stunned everyone when the rumor was out.  And shock when it happened.

Theres a reason why.

Consensus doesn't mean everyone in the press.  

It means it was a general agreement.  

Youre still wrong.  especially when w healthy Tua goes first

[Philc1]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I have no idea where you get this from.  Burrow wasn't a top prospect.  You need to follow college ball. He left Ohio State because he wasn't one and wanted to play after sitting 2 years behind JT Barret.  He was then ticketed to back up Haskins so he transferred to LSU

Darnold was a hot prospect from the moment he was on USC.  Then when he played as a sophomore and then when he was the top prospect after his Jr season. 

Darnold was the top QB prospect to most his draft season, after a down year that most knew was because of all the graduates that left after his sophomore season.  And Darnold came out in a year that everyone called the top QB class in years.

Not in a season where Burrow is the only top prospect given Tuas injury and Hebert a 2nd tier QB if not for the lack of QBs

 

Burrow - I like Burrow and think he will be good but he had a loaded team at LSU.  I think he’s a better Andy Dalton or Mitch Trubisky

 

Tua - hip scares me

 

Herbert - I like him but I don’t think he has tremendous upside.  Good not great prospect

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Burrow - I like Burrow and think he will be good but he had a loaded team at LSU.  I think he’s a better Andy Dalton or Mitch Trubisky

 

Tua - hip scares me

 

Herbert - I like him but I don’t think he has tremendous upside.  Good not great prospect

Agree

[Jet_Engine1]

19 hours ago, Warfish said:

Burrow is a better prospect than Sam was.

May not mean anything long-run, but it is what it is.

 

[phill1c]

I'm firmly in Darnold's camp. I think he has all the tools. BUT

I want to see some growth this year. Not in the playbook, but in the maturity to take the first-down run instead of flinging it at, say, Anderson, in a critical scoring situation. 

At the same time, I also want to see growth in Darnold's two-minute game. The above mentioned poise above, but also the accuracy and balls enough to make the needed plays to win games, whether by arm or by foot.

Finally, I want to see far less fumbles. Seems like if you breathed on Darnold, the ball's out. that has to be reduced/eliminated.

These are all fixable and the natural maturation you would expect from a top-tier QB. That's the next step Darnold needs to take. Hell, Mark Sanchez took me where Darnold is right now. Let's see him get to at least Ken O'Brien status.

btw, I am giving Sam Darnold a complete pass for last year. After all, he DID show some growth: learned the playbook and toughened up. Still made the unforced error in too many games. But, this is the NFL. It doesn't happen on the New York Jets schedule. It happens when it happens (Darnold becoming a reliable asset).

[jbone]

Going into Sam’s 3rd year and how confident most were when he was drafted, it’s a bit of a kick to the gonads this is actually a not so crazy question. 

[CTM]

Is the Sartoon actually using Sanchez's career arc as a rational to stick with Sam?

Dafuq wrong with him

[Warfish]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I do

Its like when everyone had Darnold at the top of his draft class until the Browns, right or wrong, went with Baker.  Which stunned everyone when the rumor was out.  And shock when it happened.

Theres a reason why.

Consensus doesn't mean everyone in the press.  

It means it was a general agreement.  

Youre still wrong.  especially when w healthy Tua goes first

Cool story.

Except for the part where "everyone" didn't have Darnold "at the top of his draft class".

The fantasy world you people live in....

[Doggin94it]

12 hours ago, Warfish said:

Irrelevant.

Sam going to the NFL too young and clearly before he should have doesn't diminish Burrow as a prospect.

Like I said in my OP, it may or not mean anything long term, but Burrow is clearly a better prospect coming out today than Sam was a prospect coming out in 2018. 

So far, Sam is a below average NFL QB by every metric.  We'll see how Borrows and Sam play in 2020.

(In before Jets Fans start claiming the Bengals were a great team and spot for Burrows to land, and that is why he produced more than Sam in 2020, lol).

That's ridiculous. If both players were available in the draft today, 32 gms out of 32 would take Sam over burrow. Younger, at least as talented, with two years of nfl experience? No brainer

[CTM]

Just now, Doggin94it said:

That's ridiculous. If both players were available in the draft today, 32 gms out of 32 would take Sam over burrow. Younger, at least as talented, with two years of nfl experience? No brainer

If Darnold was in the draft today he wouldn't have 2 years of NFL experience.

And I think if 32 gms had the #1 pick today somewhere less than 32 gms would not trade said #1 pick for the Darnold we have today with 2 years NFL experience

[Jet_Engine1]

13 hours ago, Warfish said:

Burrow didn't come out "before his breakout year".  He's coming out now.  The comparison being made is when the two entered the NFL.

And now, he is a better prospect than Darnold was in 2018 when he entered the league. 

There is no question who the overall #1 pick is going to be this year.  No real debate.  That could not be said when Sam was coming out.

If Sam was an equal prospect when he came out, he would have been the unquestioned #1 overall pick. 

He wasn't.  Burrow will be.

Of course I don't expect the homer contingent to agree.  You people already think Sam is better than every other QB but Mahomes, and some of you in this very thread would prefer Sam to Mahomes.  You are, of course, entitled to your (IMO) fantasy world.

And If Sam was coming out this year, he would still be the consensus #1. Jury is still out if Joe Burrow even has an NFL arm. I think hes Andy Dalton/Alex Smith 2.0. Not bad, but not a real FQB. 

Plus, Burrow is in a class consisting of himself, a broken, left handed Tua, Justin (lol) Herbert who looked like garbage most of his career but is now getting overhyped because hes tall and ran well. The rest of the QB class is pure shyte. Fromm looks like Aaron Murray (recently benched in XFL), and a bunch of.....nothing. Eason? LOL. OK. 

 

Burrow is consensus #1 by default.  Bad point.