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11 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Not trying to be political - it's just a very high profile person. Boris Johnson in the ICU now with Covid.

*Resists getting self banned and keeps thoughts to himself*

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48 minutes ago, talisaynon said:

Closing liquor stores is just about one of the stupidest things you can do. 

Totally agree but booze will still be available at grocery stores and stores like walgreens and walmart and every corner gas station. I'm expecting the aisles to look like our paper goods aisles. 

 

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54 minutes ago, talisaynon said:

Closing liquor stores is just about one of the stupidest things you can do. 

.

 

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Closing down our society was a mistake.  I hope we all can recover after this.  

https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/

CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in U.S., highest death toll in 40 years

By ASSOCIATED PRESS

SEPTEMBER 26, 2018

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In recent years, flu-related deaths have ranged from about 12,000 to — in the worst year — 56,000, according to the CDC.

 

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17 hours ago, HessStation said:

More perspective

 

Fascinating. Another

 

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5 hours ago, RobR said:

Totally agree but booze will still be available at grocery stores and stores like walgreens and walmart and every corner gas station. I'm expecting the aisles to look like our paper goods aisles. 

 

That's fine then. Didn't realize that was the case.

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5 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Closing down our society was a mistake.  I hope we all can recover after this.  

https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/

CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in U.S., highest death toll in 40 years

By ASSOCIATED PRESS

SEPTEMBER 26, 2018

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In recent years, flu-related deaths have ranged from about 12,000 to — in the worst year — 56,000, according to the CDC.

 

Yeah because having every person in a nursing home along with over a million other people die would have been a great option.

I know a couple people fighting this right now. Comparing this to the flu is very naive.

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18 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Yeah because having every person in a nursing home along with over a million other people die would have been a great option.

I know a couple people fighting this right now. Comparing this to the flu is very naive.

The economic losses people are taking here are also devastating. Was able to get into my barbershop for a last cut a  couple of weeks ago and the owner was damn near in tears. He’s got kids ready to go off to college and he’s getting shut down for at least a month. It’s awful. There needs to be some balance here.

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11 hours ago, Larz said:


 

interesting.   The pressure from a ventilator is not what you need When you get really sick  it’s oxygen according to this doc. 

true.  When our friend was back to 100% blood oxygen, they reduced the pressure and things were looking hopeful for a day or two.  And then bang... organ failure started.  Once that happens.....  12 days on the ventialtor.  This fking virus is evil.

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

The economic losses people are taking here are also devastating. Was able to get into my barbershop for a last cut a  couple of weeks ago and the owner was damn near in tears. He’s got kids ready to go off to college and he’s getting shut down for at least a month. It’s awful. There needs to be some balance here.

The financial side is beyond rough for a lot of people. I really wish people would realize that doing nothing and over a million people die, because that means what they are doing now is the balance. 

Human life comes first.

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2 hours ago, Maxman said:

Yeah because having every person in a nursing home along with over a million other people die would have been a great option.

I know a couple people fighting this right now. Comparing this to the flu is very naive.

Why not make provisions to quarantine the high risk elderly and immune deficient population instead of everybody? Just an honest question. 

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16 hours ago, Dcat said:

Update.  On Saturday, thing were very hopeful with his blood oxygen at 100% and they started to lower the pressure of the ventilator and reduce the oxygen as well as slowly reducing the sedation.  They moved him to a unit where the the ones doing better were.

And then yesterday his fever returned and they gave him antibiotics thinking it was an bacterial infection (which is not uncommon with ventilators and cpap's etc).  

Today we were informed that his organs are shutting down. He has hours left.  The sister ordered the ventilator removed and DNR.  

We are waiting for the phone call.

My wife is devastated.  Her dearest friend.  She will never be the same.  I'm Numb.  there will have to cremate and hold the urn until such time as a proper funeral can be had.  He was a sweet, gentle, kind man who wouldn't hurt a fly.  Sorry to write all this, but I need to vent.  There is simply no reason for him to be gone like this.    

https://www.vincentbuchinsky.com/about

 

 

He's gone.   

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13 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Why not make provisions to quarantine the high risk elderly and immune deficient population instead of everybody? Just an honest question. 

Hopefully that is what they are working towards. That would have been great, my preference all along and I have typed this like 100 times would have been testing, testing, testing and then more testing. Instead of handing out a trillion dollars to workers and business owners it would have been preferable if the government believed this was dangerous from the start instead and put that money towards testing a little bit before this got here.

Unfortunately they didn't do any of that so social distancing is the only option otherwise we have mass casualties in numbers that are beyond staggering.

I saw people last night comparing this thing to the flu again. I am not even sure what to say to that, from how easy this is to catch to the severe symptoms people who aren't even hospitalized are getting to the mortality rate, this thing isn't the flu.

Back on topic though, to answer your question, yes my preference would have been testing and containment. They failed so here we are.

Life won't go back to normal 100% until there is instant home testing. You have the virus, stay home.  After 9/11 the world changed, you get the pat down going into a football stadium now. Guess what things will change again, instant testing is the only want to contain and bring back any sense of normal.

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8 minutes ago, Dcat said:

He's gone.   

So sorry for your loss. You are all in my prayers.

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2 hours ago, Maxman said:

Yeah because having every person in a nursing home along with over a million other people die would have been a great option.

I know a couple people fighting this right now. Comparing this to the flu is very naive.

That's the thing with this. If we did it right - it will look like we over reacted and people will make claims like this forever. Just hope it doesn't last much longer and the economy can rebound.

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12 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

That's the thing with this. If we did it right - it will look like we over reacted and people will make claims like this forever. Just hope it doesn't last much longer and the economy can rebound.

I am with you 100%. That is the thing that drives me crazy about partisan politics. People look to blame the "other side" even when things are good. Both sides do this because so many people forget that we are Americans first.

So if they implemented this two week shut down, got testing rolling and it was really invasive (BUT saved a ton of lives) people would be out with the conspiracies and like you said they would claim we over reacted.

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49 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Hopefully that is what they are working towards. That would have been great, my preference all along and I have typed this like 100 times would have been testing, testing, testing and then more testing. Instead of handing out a trillion dollars to workers and business owners it would have been preferable if the government believed this was dangerous from the start instead and put that money towards testing a little bit before this got here.

Unfortunately they didn't do any of that so social distancing is the only option otherwise we have mass casualties in numbers that are beyond staggering.

I saw people last night comparing this thing to the flu again. I am not even sure what to say to that, from how easy this is to catch to the severe symptoms people who aren't even hospitalized are getting to the mortality rate, this thing isn't the flu.

Back on topic though, to answer your question, yes my preference would have been testing and containment. They failed so here we are.

Life won't go back to normal 100% until there is instant home testing. You have the virus, stay home.  After 9/11 the world changed, you get the pat down going into a football stadium now. Guess what things will change again, instant testing is the only want to contain and bring back any sense of normal.

I share the same concern for loss of civil liberties as you. I also agree this isn't the same as the flu however this isn't the first corona virus we;ve encountered nor the last. This is fact, not conspiracy 

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2 hours ago, Maxman said:

Yeah because having every person in a nursing home along with over a million other people die would have been a great option.

I know a couple people fighting this right now. Comparing this to the flu is very naive.

I totally get your point, but treating it like it is something new is as well.  The social distancing is not allowing us to build an immunity and it is wrecking us financially and mentally.

There is no easy solution.  The second wave will be worse because we hid out.IMO.

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8 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Closing down our society was a mistake.  I hope we all can recover after this.  

https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/

CDC: 80,000 people died of flu last winter in U.S., highest death toll in 40 years

By ASSOCIATED PRESS

SEPTEMBER 26, 2018

  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
 

 

In recent years, flu-related deaths have ranged from about 12,000 to — in the worst year — 56,000, according to the CDC.

 

Seriously dude?  Without a vaccine and tamiflu millions would die from seasonal flu. 
 

guess what we don’t have for a novel virus?

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1 minute ago, Larz said:

Seriously dude?  Without a vaccine and tamiflu millions would die from seasonal flu. 
 

guess what we don’t have for a novel virus?

Sweden is doing fine with not making a police state and ruining everyone's livelihood. 

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^All about coronavirus. 
 

About midway they talk about civil liberties in this, specifically the “right to be anonymous”. Certainly gave some perspective.

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28 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I share the same concern for loss of civil liberties as you. I also agree this isn't the same as the flu however this isn't the first corona virus we;ve encountered nor the last. This is fact, not conspiracy 

We haven't encountered anything that would run through our population and kill people at the level this would. That is why they shut everything down a few weeks ago. Hundreds of thousands of lives were saved at a minimum. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

I totally get your point, but treating it like it is something new is as well.  The social distancing is not allowing us to build an immunity and it is wrecking us financially and mentally.

There is no easy solution.  The second wave will be worse because we hid out.IMO.

That is definitely your opinion and my opinion is you couldn't be more wrong. Saying that we hid out makes this sound like weakness and that isn't good. We are saving lives. 

They missed the boat on this. It has been covered but from start to finish, across the board the boat left before people took this seriously. So what is being done now is letting them 1) Work on a vaccine 2) Build supplies 3) GET TESTING IN ORDER 4) Keep the pressure off of hospitals.  This is the biggest thing because they are taking floors dedicated to other things and making it temporary corona housing. So everything else is on hold and this is more than elective surgeries. Not a good time to have a serious medical issue right now.

So we aren't hiding, they are building a plan. Make no mistake about it they completely screwed the pooch and enough was not done. We can deal with all that later, but at least politicians are done with the, "it will go away on its own" talk.

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12 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Sweden is doing fine with not making a police state and ruining everyone's livelihood. 

Just curious, what state do you live in?  

New York tried to not lock things down. And look at where they are. There was no testing, isolation was not a success.

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10 minutes ago, Maxman said:

We haven't encountered anything that would run through our population and kill people at the level this would. That is why they shut everything down a few weeks ago. Hundreds of thousands of lives were saved at a minimum. 

 

This isn’t really close to the Spanish Flu. SARS as another example was/is the same “virus” however much more deadly. The main difference is that people don’t show symptoms as quickly w Covid-19. Shutting down the world vs herd immunity is an interesting debate I’d be unqualified to have a definitive answer on, bc there isn’t one even in the medical/scientific community. I have more questions than answers as we all should. It’s a terrible situation, my heart goes out to all affected which is pretty much everybody in some way. But especially those impacted with the death of a loved one. 

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42 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

I totally get your point, but treating it like it is something new is as well.  The social distancing is not allowing us to build an immunity and it is wrecking us financially and mentally.

There is no easy solution.  The second wave will be worse because we hid out.IMO.

"Building an immunity".  "Herd immunity".  Just euphemisms for a bunch of people dying so others can live.  And by others I mean someone's mother, father, grandparent, child, wife, husband, cousin, friend......

I would suggest all folks espousing this philosophy to get up from the sidelines and into action.  Gather your "herd" together, especially elderly and middle-aged relatives,  then head on over to your local hospital or fire station.  

Volunteer to assist in removing protective garments from medical workers after a long shift.  Clean bedpans from intubated patients in medically-induced comas.  Or anything else to ease the burden doctors, nurses, and all hospital personnel are enduring as their facilities are crammed to the rafters with COVOID-19 victims.   I know, help carry some of the dead into the make-shift refrigerator truck "morgues".

Or sanitize EMT trucks.  Maybe even cook the EMTs or fire house personnel a meal or two.  And since you're not worried about this silliness, forego wearing any masks (even homemade ones) or other protective gear.

Ball is in your court.  

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16 minutes ago, Maxman said:

That is definitely your opinion and my opinion is you couldn't be more wrong. Saying that we hid out makes this sound like weakness and that isn't good. We are saving lives. 

They missed the boat on this. It has been covered but from start to finish, across the board the boat left before people took this seriously. So what is being done now is letting them 1) Work on a vaccine 2) Build supplies 3) GET TESTING IN ORDER 4) Keep the pressure off of hospitals.  This is the biggest thing because they are taking floors dedicated to other things and making it temporary corona housing. So everything else is on hold and this is more than elective surgeries. Not a good time to have a serious medical issue right now.

So we aren't hiding, they are building a plan. Make no mistake about it they completely screwed the pooch and enough was not done. We can deal with all that later, but at least politicians are done with the, "it will go away on its own" talk.

One of the most devastating things to come out of this equal to the lives lost from the virus itself. 

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6 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

"Building an immunity".  "Herd immunity".  Just euphemisms for a bunch of people dying so others can live.  And by others I mean someone's mother, father, grandparent, child, wife, husband, cousin, friend......

I would suggest all folks espousing this philosophy to get up from the sidelines and into action.  Gather your "herd" together, especially elderly and middle-aged relatives,  then head on over to your local hospital or fire station.  

Volunteer to assist in removing protective garments from medical workers after a long shift.  Clean bedpans from intubated patients in medically-induced comas.  Or anything else to ease the burden doctors, nurses, and all hospital personnel are enduring as their facilities are crammed to the rafters with COVOID-19 victims.   I know, help carry some of the dead into the make-shift refrigerator truck "morgues".

Or sanitize EMT trucks.  Maybe even cook the EMTs or fire house personnel a meal or two.  And since you're not worried about this silliness, forego wearing any masks (even homemade ones) or other protective gear.

Ball is in your court.  

Defining herd immunity for all would be devastating, agreed. We should have been and should be protecting those who need it, ie elderly and compromised. Nobody is debating that. 

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38 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Sweden is doing fine with not making a police state and ruining everyone's livelihood. 

Sweden has one of the worst death rates per capita in the world.  Nearly 60% higher death per 1m population than the US.

And it's starting to get worse.

This Is Fine GIF

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1 minute ago, HessStation said:

Defining herd immunity for all would be devastating, agreed. We should have been and should be protecting those who need it, ie elderly and compromised. Nobody is debating that. 

Sure they are, including those in the highest levels of power.   What do you think putting everyone back to normal before a vaccine or therapy is created means?

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38 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Sweden is doing fine with not making a police state and ruining everyone's livelihood. 

 

Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

Sweden has one of the worst death rates per capita in the world.  Nearly 60% higher death per 1m population than the US.

 

Swedish P.M. Tells Country to Prepare for ‘Thousands’ of Deaths as Pressure Builds to Abandon Lax Coronavirus Response

Sweden’s Prime Minister Stefan Lofven warned in an interview published over the weekend that the country could face “thousands” of coronavirus deaths, after the country’s minimal lockdown efforts have left grade schools, bars, restaurants, and parks open amid the pandemic.

On Sunday, Sweden reported a total of 401 deaths so far from Covid-19, up 8 percent from Saturday and greater than the totals recorded in its three Nordic neighbors combined — all of which have stricter lockdowns in place. Sweden’s death toll per million inhabitants is 37, compared with 28 in Denmark, 12 in Norway, and 4.5 in Finland.

New legislation is expected this week to introduce new emergency steps, such as shutting airports or train and bus stations, closing shops and restaurants, further limiting public gatherings from the current protocol of no gatherings over 50 people, or appropriating medical equipment, according to state broadcaster SVT.

Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist, has argued that Sweden is angling for “a slow spread of infection and that the health services are not overwhelmed,” in order to gradually allow the population to acquire immunity.

Amid growing cases among the elderly — despite bans on visits to retirement homes — Tegnell denied that, as the head of the campaign against the virus, he bore any personal responsibility.

“No, many people work on these issues. We all have a collective responsibility in society to protect the elderly,” he told newspaper Aftonbladet, adding that the situation was “very serious.”

Lofven has so far sought to play down the role of government in shaping Sweden’s response.

“We will never be able to legislate everything, we will never be able to ban all harmful actions,” the prime minister said last week. “We all as individuals must take our responsibility.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/swedish-p-m-tells-country-155839261.html

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8 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Sure they are, including those in the highest levels of power.   What do you think putting everyone back to normal before a vaccine or therapy is created means?

Meh, I suppose there are some government officials, I’m talking about from the medical/scientific field though. I don’t consider politicians credible in any way, shape, form. 

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3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The economic losses people are taking here are also devastating. Was able to get into my barbershop for a last cut a  couple of weeks ago and the owner was damn near in tears. He’s got kids ready to go off to college and he’s getting shut down for at least a month. It’s awful. There needs to be some balance here.

To create a balance will require massive testing which we are just not doing for some reason. Sweden isolated the elderly which is what Dr. K recommended. Sooner rather than later they will have to open up the economy Or else mass panic all set in. Most people live check to check they really have no choice.

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50 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Sweden is doing fine with not making a police state and ruining everyone's livelihood. 

Are you trying to look bad here?

stay on topic. Why is this novel virus not the seasonal flu?

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2 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Meh, I suppose there are some government officials, I’m talking about from the medical/scientific field though. I don’t consider politicians credible in any way, shape, form. 

Giving credence to whatever these politicians say about this virus is akin to listening and believing Macc had a cohesive plan. I wouldn’t be Surprised to see MacC resurface on the podium for the COVID-19 task force soon. 

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