Would Trent Williams Deal Rule out Conklin in Free Agency?

[Jimmy 2 Times]

Why trade a three and then be forced to pay Williams 15+ million?

I'd rather pay Conklin 15+ million and use that three to leapfrog Cleveland and Arizona to guarantee Thomas or Wirfs. 

 

 

Or even better, trade down a few spots, add a three, and draft Josh Jones after signing Conklin. 

[RichardTodd27]

17 hours ago, Maxman said:

There is no way Joe Douglas is doing this for a 2nd rounder. Please let him have enough sense to not do that. 4th rounder, MAYBE a 3rd but NO WAY a 2nd.

I normally would agree with this regarding not giving up more than a 4th rounder.

But with the extra 3rd, I might be willing to give up our latter pick (in the 3rd round).

I would think of it as a trading Leo for Trent. Not so bad.

[Maxman]

8 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Why trade a three and then be forced to pay Williams 15+ million?

I'd rather pay Conklin 15+ million and use that three to leapfrog Cleveland and Arizona to guarantee Thomas or Wirfs. 

 

 

Or even better, trade down a few spots, add a three, and draft Josh Jones after signing Conklin. 

Why do they have to pay him? He has one year left can't they see how it goes before discussing a new deal?

[Jetster]

Jet fans have to open to taking some chances to fix this Oline THIS YEAR. Protecting Darnold so he can develop Is the most important thing on Joe Douglas plate right now. Do you want Sam to end up like Andrew Luck? 

This is how Jet fans think...Look what happened to Osemele, so don't take any chances. We suck at picking WRs....so stay away from Ceedee & Jeudy. Don't take a workout warrior...look what happened with Vernon Gholston. 

Just because a draft pick didn't pan out or a free agent flamed out, you have to keep plugging away to fill a roster that can play freaking football. There is no fool proof route for Joe Douglas to take to fix this Oline. There will be limited assets out there & he needs to be determined to land a couple of guys. Going into next season with 3 drafted rookies, Edoga and Winters is NOT AN OPTION. So Joe is going to do whatever he has to do so we don't have a repeat of last year with Sam running for his damn life on every other snap! It's going to cost a ton of money, we're going to have to hit on 2 WRs in this upcoming draft, GW is going to have to work with a couple of rookie defenders & a couple low cost experienced veterans paid vet minimum. 

There is no perfect formula & we don't have 3 years of drafts to FINALLY put 5 Stud YOUNG Olineman around Darnold all on freaking rookie contracts & all of them able to perform at a high level in the NFL. This is a realty check that Maccagnan left this Oline a f*cking mess! Joe Douglas WILL DO something that you guys won't approve of to try & get guys to hold the fort over the next few years while he drafts some development Olineman. 

Why? Because it's necessary! 

[Sperm Edwards]

40 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Why do they have to pay him? He has one year left can't they see how it goes before discussing a new deal?

I think the idea (if it even happens) is to trade a day 2 pick only if there’s at least the on-paper presumption/agreement that he’ll start for more than just 1 season. For just 1 season with no extension agreement, I’m reluctant to give up even a 4th rounder in what’s pegged as a deep draft at our need-positions.

[Lurker89]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. Beachum is cheaper, does not require draft capital, has a rapport with players and staff. He's not a world beater but also was not the problem on our line last year. Makes way more sense as a stop gap than Williams.

We have made it to the point in the off-season where fans are so starved for football activity they want to see any move happen.  I'd rather not get caught up in the Trent Williams Trade and Payday.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

1 hour ago, Maxman said:

Why do they have to pay him? He has one year left can't they see how it goes before discussing a new deal?

Most trades involve some kind of financial reward/deal for the guy traded.

Even still, why waste that three on a guy that we don't extend?  A third round pick in this deep draft for a one year flyer?

Use it to jump Cleveland and Arizona and have your guy for five years.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Lurker89 said:

I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. Beachum is cheaper, does not require draft capital, has a rapport with players and staff. He's not a world beater but also was not the problem on our line last year. Makes way more sense as a stop gap than Williams.

We have made it to the point in the off-season where fans are so starved for football activity they want to see any move happen.  I'd rather not get caught up in the Trent Williams Trade and Payday.

Except Beachum was a problem. Others just sucked even worse (i.e. he was the one-eyed OL man in the OL land of the blind). He’s maybe average as a pass blocker (maybe not; harder to gauge when someone worse allows pressure even earlier), and was not nearly average as a run blocker.

I’d take a better one-dimensional pass protector over a one-dimensional run blocker, but I’d rather the team just outright upgrades. 

Yeah they could do worse, but they really should do better.

[Barry McCockinner]

16 hours ago, Jetster said:

This is total BS! Yea, if he played last year & wasn't an injury risk. No way in hell the Skins are getting a #2 plus the team trading for him has to pay big bucks. I'm saying right now you won't see that happen & if it does? That GM should be fired! My god, look what older guys with questions like Santonio Holmes & Brandon Marshall went for in trades (I think they were both 5ths?).  They were f*cking stud WRs but if there is any question it drops those picks tremendously. 

Yea and the league knows he isn't playing for Washington so they have zero leverage. If someone gives them a second round pick they're out of their minds. Hopefully it isn't us.

[BurnleyJet]

If he gives up a second to get Williams, I’m starting the Fire Douglas train. This would be a mega duffus move.

[varjet]

8 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

If he gives up a second to get Williams, I’m starting the Fire Douglas train. This would be a mega duffus move.

I believe the going rate for a year of an eight figure contract for a good player is a Day 3 Draft Pick.

I would be interested in seeing the chart of trades over the last five years.  NFL teams have two ways of getting players-drafting them and paying them.  The most expensive way to acquire a player is to use high draft picks to acquire a player you have to pay.

We all thought the Osemele deal was a good one.  Hopefully good player coming back.  TWO years under expensive contract for a G (basically equivalent to what Williams is getting at T).  We give a 5th and get Osemele and a 6th.  That was still expensive, but we needed to fill the holes on the line.

Snyder is just an evil little man.  This did not work with Cousins either.  This is basically the same strategies that the Johnsons tried with Mo-that worked out great for everyone. 

The Redskins should be happy with a 4th round pick, which is basically their comp pick.  Or a low third.  

[Lith]

11 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

The certainty is the contract would eat up a considerable amount of our cap for a player whose injury history screams of  extreme uncertainty to stay healthy. This is not the path of least resistance. 

I don't want Trent Williams.  At least not as a first choice.  But there will be atl least a dozen teams looking to upgrade OL.  Everyone talks about guys like Thuney, Conklin, Glasgow as if we can just snap our fingers and they are ours.  Free Agency is never that simple.  We will be bidding against a lot of other teams for these guys.  And even if we have the highest bid, there is no guarantee the guy we want will come here.  We are not aprime destination.

The injury history for Williams is a bit overblown.  He averaged 13 games a year from 2014-18, the period of time folks on this site love to refer to as "he hasn't played a full season since 2013".  An accurate statement, but a bit of hyperbole in my view.  What scares me about Williams is not so much the injury history as him recovering from cancer surgery - which seems to be omitted from every beat writers narrative.  Not sure anyone knows how strong he will recover from that.

My only point is that JD has to explore all alternatives.  He has to know what the price is for Williams.  I absolutely do not want to deal for him.  At least not now.  But if we whiff on the top guys in FA (which is a possiblitiy), and if the top 4 OTs come off the board in the top 10, JD has to get creative in finding options.  

The one option I can't live with is another year with a patchwork OL consisting of veteran jags, rookies, and a couple of "cross your fingers and hope they are good" type players.  A Trent Williams trade should not be plan A, or even plan B.  But it is something that JD at least needs to explore.

[Adoni Beast]

11 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Why trade a three and then be forced to pay Williams 15+ million?

I'd rather pay Conklin 15+ million and use that three to leapfrog Cleveland and Arizona to guarantee Thomas or Wirfs. 

 

 

Or even better, trade down a few spots, add a three, and draft Josh Jones after signing Conklin. 

I agree with this. I think we can add two 3rds from Denver who want Ruggs and may be willing to move up to 11 for it.

That would give us four 3rds, and we can take Josh Jones or Austin Jackson at 15.

[Wonderboy]

59 minutes ago, Lith said:

I don't want Trent Williams.  At least not as a first choice.  But there will be atl least a dozen teams looking to upgrade OL.  Everyone talks about guys like Thuney, Conklin, Glasgow as if we can just snap our fingers and they are ours.  Free Agency is never that simple.  We will be bidding against a lot of other teams for these guys.  And even if we have the highest bid, there is no guarantee the guy we want will come here.  We are not aprime destination.

The injury history for Williams is a bit overblown.  He averaged 13 games a year from 2014-18, the period of time folks on this site love to refer to as "he hasn't played a full season since 2013".  An accurate statement, but a bit of hyperbole in my view.  What scares me about Williams is not so much the injury history as him recovering from cancer surgery - which seems to be omitted from every beat writers narrative.  Not sure anyone knows how strong he will recover from that.

My only point is that JD has to explore all alternatives.  He has to know what the price is for Williams.  I absolutely do not want to deal for him.  At least not now.  But if we whiff on the top guys in FA (which is a possiblitiy), and if the top 4 OTs come off the board in the top 10, JD has to get creative in finding options.  

The one option I can't live with is another year with a patchwork OL consisting of veteran jags, rookies, and a couple of "cross your fingers and hope they are good" type players.  A Trent Williams trade should not be plan A, or even plan B.  But it is something that JD at least needs to explore.

It is difficult since the whole line needs to be replaced. And we have only so much money to spend on FA. Still, I’d pass on him and sign younger guys at other positions of need like cb and edge if we can’t get any of the top OL FA’s. Then just go via draft, maybe trade for mid rode OL guys. If it can’t be fixed this year then we’ll have to be patient until FA’s see we’ve improved and are contenders. 

[varjet]

Upon further reflection:

• As we saw last year, the Douglas way is to listen and talk to everybody.  When he says that the Jets are negotiating, would like Robby back, etc., you have to take it with a grain of salt.  He can say he wants Robby back, but he really means at $8mm/year, 2 years guaranteed.  Robby likely does not want that deal, but who knows given that he is a FA in a year with a draft that includes 20 players who can do what he can do.   So the fact that they are negotiating means very little.
• We need our draft picks.  We can't pay money and give up draft picks.  For Trent, I play chicken with the Redskins.  Offer a low draft pick.  Their alternative is to keep a disgruntled player on their team and pay him $12.5mm in cash.   The only way a team pays a better pick is if Trent agrees to a favorable contract, which he is not doing.  Trent, his agents and the Redskins are delusional.  
• If Trent gets released, cut a bunch of players and take a chance on him with money . But don't be trading a pick that can be a starting C, G or WR for this guy.  

[NYJ1]

Williams should be off the table. He's a geriatric and the Jets need long term solutions

[GangGreenDover]

I think the main reason we’re looking into getting Trent Williams is so we can go WR Round 1 Juedy or Lamb

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

39 minutes ago, GangGreenDover said:

I think the main reason we’re looking into getting Trent Williams is so we can go WR Round 1 Juedy or Lamb

And that all we have on the oline right now is Brian Winters.

[Sperm Edwards]

18 hours ago, varjet said:

Upon further reflection:

• As we saw last year, the Douglas way is to listen and talk to everybody.  When he says that the Jets are negotiating, would like Robby back, etc., you have to take it with a grain of salt.  He can say he wants Robby back, but he really means at $8mm/year, 2 years guaranteed.  Robby likely does not want that deal, but who knows given that he is a FA in a year with a draft that includes 20 players who can do what he can do.   So the fact that they are negotiating means very little.

I don't think this is the case at all.

I think he wants him back - the less the better - and is willing to go more than $8MM but definitely does not want to guarantee 2 years (for skill).  

2 years at $8MM (which isn't realistic anyway) > 1 year in the $11-12MM range. Especially when the Jets are likely to draft at least 1 WR by round 2 at the latest, and a second one somewhere between rounds 3-6. Fully guaranteeing Anderson 2 years makes it counterproductive to then draft 2 WRs a month later.

Meanwhile signing Anderson (or another veteran who could realistically be penciled in to start 16 games) means Darnold doesn't have to throw to 2 rookies unless the lesser one is already better than Anderson. Could be, and maybe he takes that chance with a fully-developed veteran QB, but as of this spring that's not Darnold.

So I do believe he wants another veteran, and further that Anderson is his top choice, but I don't think he wants to get guaranteed-locked in to >1 season for any veteran WR except possibly Cooper, and I'd be surprised if Douglas busts his nut on him at ~$20MM x 2 fully guaranteed seasons. Not unless the CBA gets ratified this week, and a player with Cooper's options has to want to come here anyway. But if he does (sign Cooper), and the Jets still go WR in rd 1 or 2, Darnold will be all out of excuses (including ones OL-related) because that will be one serious group of 5 receivers including Herndon & Bell.

[Jetster]

JD is looking for any Olineman with a f*cking pulse! The idea that Kelvin Beachum was out best lineman is so proposterous that it solidifies Macc being a complete MORON. 

Again, go back in time & we reupped Winters which I hated doing because Winters sucked! He was the our best lineman because our Oline SUCKED! 

Because this team has drafted so poorly the last 10 years we keep resigning our best players because our best players ARE BELOW AVERAGE to begin with. 

The lack of stars drafted on this team is criminal! 

So we can all come here & write our opinions (this is what these forums are for) but the bottom line with our Oline is EVERY SINGLE OPTION has to be considered, we can't have it both ways, your not getting YOUNG GUYS with great deals (too few to be had), we'll probably have to find at least one geriatric hold the fort guy that won't come cheap, and JD will have to perform a miracle in this draft (trade back?) to fix the Oline this year. 

But let's be realistic & stop talking about how cheaply we need to fix the Oline. Ain't happening! Fixing this Oline in 2020 so Sam doesn't get killed is going to take a HUGE chunk of our cap dollars. Fact.