Trent Williams wants 20M per

[varjet]

I don't think Dan Snyder is letting Trent off the hook here.  

He basically can agree with another team to take a reasonable salary over 2-3 years to make it worthwhile for that team to give Snyder a draft pick to let Williams go.  Let's say that is 2 years at $16mm each.   That is Trent's Plan A.

Otherwise he plays for the Redskins this year for $12.5mm, hope to not get hurt, and then try next year for that $20mm contract per year which ends up to be $19mm or less. In that case the Redskins get a compensatory pick, likely 3rd round, in 2022, subject to other FAs they sign.  That is Trent's Plan B.

So, logically, the Redskins should take a 4th round pick to part with Trent now, and they can replace him with someone at the top of the second round for $3mm.   To do that, Trent should agree to a two year contract at a below peak price which will guarantee him much more than $12.5mm for 2020 but maybe less than what Conklin gets to pay RT.

Otherwise, Trent could get hurt, not play well, etc. and the Redskins can cut him and he has to find a team after FA in 2020.

[jgb]

3 hours ago, PCP63 said:

The idea that we don't already know what Sam is is ridiculous. Yes, there were plenty of times when he was on the run, but there were plenty of times he wasn't. And in those times, he made some pretty piss-poor decisions. We don't need to take on a bad contract and give away draft picks because of some fantasy idea that getting Williams will magically allow us to see into some eight-ball and predict Sam's future.

After your first sentence, I did not expect your conclusion. Well done.

Fact is, until Sam is proven suck you’re gonna have clingers who won’t let the dream go. For me it’s not about Williams, my point is I want to be up against the cap this year so we know longer have the what-if crowd chirping about how Sam is really great despite sucking.

[bitonti]

On 3/10/2020 at 2:50 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

2. Faneca ended up getting a whole lot more than the $7MM you think it was

It was a tragic contract for the Jets to hand out to Faneca on balance. I'll never understand the romance with it in hindsight, other than points for the effort, let alone use that awful contract as justification to trade for Williams.

agree TW is not a fit for 2020 NYJ 

agree Faneca got more than people realize. He was the highest paid lineman in history at the time of the signing.

It's almost impossible to adjust for 12 years of salary cap raises, and federal inflation. Someone can do it, not me tho.  that's like calculus or something 

as far as it "being worth it" ... maybe? the Rex Ryan run of 09-10 was widely remembered as the rolicky crap fest it was... Faneca was the LG in 09, Slauson in 10. (they cut Faneca when they drafted Vlad, yikes). 

but he was part of a change of culture and establishing a winning habit. The last time the team won more than it lost, in fact. 

[bitonti]

On 3/10/2020 at 2:21 PM, Greenseed4 said:

Can you share with the class your thoughts on the 2021 OT draft class?  Reason is: If we decide to afford Trent Williams and draft a tier-1 WR in the first round, we can always dip in the draftee pond next year to get an OT (if Trent isn't the answer). 

[Penei Sewell (Oregon), Alex Leatherwood (Alabama), Sam Cosmi (Texas), Walker Little (Stanford), Cade Mays & Trey Smith (Tennessee), Jalen Mayfield (Michigan)] 

Sewell has all the signs of a beast. NFL bloodlines in every direction. Wherever Wills goes this year, Leatherwood goes 5-10 slots higher, based purely on the decision of Alabama coaching to start him at LT. 

Trey Smith could be a tier 1 guy/tier 2 he's early but he's got the gifts. A Josh Jones level 20-32 prospect in terms of value (not a comp) 

and that's tier 1... three dudes maybe... it's not nearly as deep as 2020 class

tier 2 and beyond 

Cosmi is actually an interesting gase zone prototype 6'7" 300+ he likes height... Little's draft status will depend on medicals. Mays and Mayfield might be RT only or guards. 

[Greenseed4]

23 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Sewell has all the signs of a beast. NFL bloodlines in every direction. Wherever Wills goes this year, Leatherwood goes 5-10 slots higher, based purely on the decision of Alabama coaching to start him at LT. 

Trey Smith could be a tier 1 guy/tier 2 he's early but he's got the gifts. A Josh Jones level 20-32 prospect in terms of value (not a comp) 

and that's tier 1... three dudes maybe... it's not nearly as deep as 2020 class

tier 2 and beyond 

Cosmi is actually an interesting gase zone prototype 6'7" 300+ he likes height... Little's draft status will depend on medicals. Mays and Mayfield might be RT only or guards. 

First off, thanks for doing this. 

My point is three-fold: 

1. This time last year, 2020 wasn't considered as "deep" an OT class as it is now.  I already see 2021 developing into a similarly "deep" draft.  If Walker Little gets back to form, he is the defacto #1 OT in this class... that makes three top-tier guys before next year's "Becton" appears out of nowhere.  Toss in the strictly RT/OG guys (cough Wills) and you're looking at a repeat of this year, if not better.   Also, I wouldn't sleep on Trey Smith.  Dude is a freak.  I wouldn't be surprised if he sneaks into the top-4 OTs.

2.  I kinda want to get our WR1 in the first round this year.  I know its a deep class, and "we can find starters in later rounds".... but can we find a WR1?  By the time we pick in the 2nd round I expect a run on WRs to have happened which will have eliminated the upper echelon receivers.  If we're lucky we are picking between Aiyuk, Tyler Johnson, Claypool, Pittman and Donovan Peoples.  It's not to say that none of them can't become "the guy" but why chance it?  

3.  In my draft scenario, we drop from #11 to #15 (Denver) and get our WR in the first.  The compensation for sliding back four slots is a third round pick (#77) which is actually higher than the pick we spend to get Trent Williams (#79).  Regarding his new salary, if Avery Williamson is a part of the trade, the $6.5M he is due gets offset in the new TW contract (which as another poster pointed out, can be structured as $1.25M per game... if he plays he gets paid).   

End result, we get our stud WR1, we get a former-stud LT, and draft our big ugly RT in the second. 

[THE BARON]

Two word answer for the $20mm retread.  Piss off. 

[section314]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

agree TW is not a fit for 2020 NYJ 

agree Faneca got more than people realize. He was the highest paid lineman in history at the time of the signing.

It's almost impossible to adjust for 12 years of salary cap raises, and federal inflation. Someone can do it, not me tho.  that's like calculus or something 

as far as it "being worth it" ... maybe? the Rex Ryan run of 09-10 was widely remembered as the rolicky crap fest it was... Faneca was the LG in 09, Slauson in 10. (they cut Faneca when they drafted Vlad, yikes). 

but he was part of a change of culture and establishing a winning habit. The last time the team won more than it lost, in fact. 

What's even scarier is that these bozos went up to that football factory UMass to scout Vlad and never even noticed Victor Cruz.

[varjet]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

What's even scarier is that these bozos went up to that football factory UMass to scout Vlad and never even noticed Victor Cruz.

We can blame Terry Bradway, Joey Clinkscales, Pat Kirwin, Mike Tannenbaum, Mike Heimerdinger, John Idzik, Maccagnan and assorted other characters who were involved in the Jets' scouting efforts.  They have drafted very poorly for so long as any of us can remember.

The common denominator is the Johnsons.   We have seen them generally take the cheap and easy way out with coaches.  That is what we can see.  Scouting must not have been taken seriously.  It appears now that we have better scouting.  We have four respected scouting professionals leading the effort.  I am optimistic, for now.  

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

agree TW is not a fit for 2020 NYJ 

agree Faneca got more than people realize. He was the highest paid lineman in history at the time of the signing.

It's almost impossible to adjust for 12 years of salary cap raises, and federal inflation. Someone can do it, not me tho.  that's like calculus or something 

as far as it "being worth it" ... maybe? the Rex Ryan run of 09-10 was widely remembered as the rolicky crap fest it was... Faneca was the LG in 09, Slauson in 10. (they cut Faneca when they drafted Vlad, yikes). 

but he was part of a change of culture and establishing a winning habit. The last time the team won more than it lost, in fact. 

The team would have been better without the signing, and it’s an insult to the 2 young linemen reaching their prime that credit for their probowl-level play is just handed to Faneca for being a shell of his former self. $21MM over those 2 years would have gone a long way to shoring up other areas. Only makes it worse that they had an adequate replacement in Slauson for 6th round rookie money (or that Kendall was still a better lineman than Faneca was in his 2 years here). That “culture” was also changed and forwarded by keeping Moore and signing Woody.

Williams might be worth it, but a pick and $20MM/year is too much for a guy who might (and probably will) not be the player he was. If it was for 26 year-old TW? Yeah sure. Frees up a high 1st rounder, and very cheap money compared to veteran FAs, to use elsewhere (or to make the OL that much more dominant). 

Yeah I’d pass, and accept that it may be a big mistake. Missing on adding a still-great 32 year old LT is worse than swinging and missing at the rate being floated.

[RobR]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The team would have been better without the signing, and it’s an insult to the 2 young linemen reaching their prime that credit for their probowl-level play is just handed to Faneca for being a shell of his former self. $21MM over those 2 years would have gone a long way to shoring up other areas. Only makes it worse that they had an adequate replacement in Slauson for 6th round rookie money (or that Kendall was still a better lineman than Faneca was in his 2 years here). That “culture” was also changed and forwarded by keeping Moore and signing Woody.

Williams might be worth it, but a pick and $20MM/year is too much for a guy who might (and probably will) not be the player he was. If it was for 26 year-old TW? Yeah sure. Frees up a high 1st rounder, and very cheap money compared to veteran FAs, to use elsewhere (or to make the OL that much more dominant). 

Yeah I’d pass, and accept that it may be a big mistake. Missing on adding a still-great 32 year old LT is worse than swinging and missing at the rate being floated.

Vlad and Slauson both came after Faneca and I thought Faneca was an absolute beast during his first year and well worth the money. He was never a great passblocker but he more than made up for it in the run game. He was easily the best runblocking guard we've had over the last 15+ years.

The big problem was drafting Vlad who was a bust at Tackle and then they forced him into the line-up when he rotated with Slauson who was clearly better. All of that was done to appease Tanny even if it wasn't the right decision. The rest is history, Slausen leaves and becomes a pro bowler while we were stuck with the Vladator.

[Sperm Edwards]

17 minutes ago, RobR said:

Vlad and Slauson both came after Faneca and I thought Faneca was an absolute beast during his first year and well worth the money. He was never a great passblocker but he more than made up for it in the run game. He was easily the best runblocking guard we've had over the last 15+ years.

The big problem was drafting Vlad who was a bust at Tackle and then they forced him into the line-up when he rotated with Slauson who was clearly better. All of that was done to appease Tanny even if it wasn't the right decision. The rest is history, Slausen leaves and becomes a pro bowler while we were stuck with the Vladator.

Slauson was drafted the same year they picked up Faneca: 2008. They may have drafted Ducasse before releasing Faneca but it wasn’t just because of the rookie. Particularly when you consider the team got so little cap relief for cutting him that he was probably worth keeping as an expensive backup. They wanted him off the team. If Callahan had zero confidence in Slauson then there was no point in cutting Faneca until they could see Ducasse in his first NFL practice. There was no hurry; free agency was over. They wanted him gone. Arizona agreed to take him on because we were paying for it, but a year later no one wanted him and his career was over.

Faneca wasn’t worth anywhere near the staggering money he got, so we just disagree. The massive money they paid him for those 2 seasons back then would still be solid veteran starter money now, 12 years later with the cap nearly doubled. Whatever anyone thinks he was in run blocking while here, the other 4/5 of that line was rock solid and he was an unnecessary addition; not to mention paying probowl LT money for an OG who’s below average in any aspect of his game.

The only in-between when they had nothing was when Mangini/Tannenbaum wanted to make an example out of Kendall in July-Aug 2007 and then traded him in Aug without an adequate replacement on the roster. That doesn’t make it smart to then get 1 decent (but not great) year out of a guy while paying for 3 years of greatness. 

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Adrien Clarke being a train wreck unworthy of starting, and Ferguson being a slow learner who could barely maintain 290 lbs for his first 2 seasons, made Faneca look like a worthwhile addition. I do give the team points for making the effort, as I’ve said. 

[RobR]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Slauson was drafted the same year they picked up Faneca: 2008. They may have drafted Ducasse before releasing Faneca but it wasn’t just because of the rookie. Particularly when you consider the team got so little cap relief for cutting him that he was probably worth keeping as an expensive backup. They wanted him off the team. If Callahan had zero confidence in Slauson then there was no point in cutting Faneca until they could see Ducasse in his first NFL practice. There was no hurry; free agency was over. They wanted him gone. Arizona agreed to take him on because we were paying for it, but a year later no one wanted him and his career was over.

Faneca wasn’t worth anywhere near the staggering money he got, so we just disagree. The massive money they paid him for those 2 seasons back then would still be solid veteran starter money now, 12 years later with the cap nearly doubled. Whatever anyone thinks he was in run blocking while here, the other 4/5 of that line was rock solid and he was an unnecessary addition; not to mention paying probowl LT money for an OG who’s below average in any aspect of his game.

The only in-between when they had nothing was when Mangini/Tannenbaum wanted to make an example out of Kendall in July-Aug 2007 and then traded him in Aug without an adequate replacement on the roster. That doesn’t make it smart to then get 1 decent (but not great) year out of a guy while paying for 3 years of greatness. 

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Adrien Clarke being a train wreck unworthy of starting, and Ferguson being a slow learner who could barely maintain 290 lbs for his first 2 seasons, made Faneca look like a worthwhile addition. I do give the team points for making the effort, as I’ve said. 

Slauson was never going to be a starter as a rookie so that should be a mute point. Beides the worth of Faneca we're arguing different points.

My biggest gripe was we rotated Slauson and Vlad every few series during games just for Tanny to save face with his 2nd round selection. It turned out to be a horrible decision because Slauson never wanted to come back here and turned into a pro bowl player....Vlad not so much.

And Faneca was worth every penny. 

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, RobR said:

Slauson was never going to be a starter as a rookie so that should be a mute point. Beides the worth of Faneca we're arguing different points.

My biggest gripe was we rotated Slauson and Vlad every few series during games just for Tanny to save face with his 2nd round selection. It turned out to be a horrible decision because Slauson never wanted to come back here and turned into a pro bowl player....Vlad not so much.

And Faneca was worth every penny. 

Like I said, agree to disagree. 

We’d have been far better off just going with Slauson, a mid-level FA instead of Faneca, or never creating the 2007 hole in the first place and just keeping Kendall at ~25% of Faneca’s cost. 

[bitonti]

19 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

First off, thanks for doing this. 

My point is three-fold: 

1. This time last year, 2020 wasn't considered as "deep" an OT class as it is now.  I already see 2021 developing into a similarly "deep" draft.  If Walker Little gets back to form, he is the defacto #1 OT in this class... that makes three top-tier guys before next year's "Becton" appears out of nowhere.  Toss in the strictly RT/OG guys (cough Wills) and you're looking at a repeat of this year, if not better.   Also, I wouldn't sleep on Trey Smith.  Dude is a freak.  I wouldn't be surprised if he sneaks into the top-4 OTs.

2.  I kinda want to get our WR1 in the first round this year.  I know its a deep class, and "we can find starters in later rounds".... but can we find a WR1?  By the time we pick in the 2nd round I expect a run on WRs to have happened which will have eliminated the upper echelon receivers.  If we're lucky we are picking between Aiyuk, Tyler Johnson, Claypool, Pittman and Donovan Peoples.  It's not to say that none of them can't become "the guy" but why chance it?  

3.  In my draft scenario, we drop from #11 to #15 (Denver) and get our WR in the first.  The compensation for sliding back four slots is a third round pick (#77) which is actually higher than the pick we spend to get Trent Williams (#79).  Regarding his new salary, if Avery Williamson is a part of the trade, the $6.5M he is due gets offset in the new TW contract (which as another poster pointed out, can be structured as $1.25M per game... if he plays he gets paid).   

End result, we get our stud WR1, we get a former-stud LT, and draft our big ugly RT in the second. 

projecting 2021 OL to be better than 2020 is hopeful. this year's tackles are the best for a long time. Trey Smith is already #3 assuming a comeback 

these prospects don't usually come out of nowhere. 

all this being said I agree with WR need being just as dire if not more so than LT. But they will bring back beachum before they go with TW. Avery Williamson trade is complicated because of medicals. 

the follow up question is who is WR1 really? and why is he on the board at 11 

 

[LAD_Brooklyn]

I've pulled a 180° and no longer think it's a smart move to go after Williams. Those like me who once said getting him would allow us to snatch Jeudy or Lamb, well you can use that same $13-18 mil and just sign Cooper who's only 25 years young. 

Redskins seem fixated on getting back a 1st or 2nd lol. If it's this much of a hassle then we shouldn't participate in aquiring him. 

[kelly]

" Trent Williams wants 20M per "..

 

?

[Greenseed4]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

projecting 2021 OL to be better than 2020 is hopeful. this year's tackles are the best for a long time. Trey Smith is already #3 assuming a comeback 

these prospects don't usually come out of nowhere. 

all this being said I agree with WR need being just as dire if not more so than LT. But they will bring back beachum before they go with TW. Avery Williamson trade is complicated because of medicals. 

the follow up question is who is WR1 really? and why is he on the board at 11 

 

Beachum, Trent Williams, Jason Peters, Cordy Glenn, even Jack Conklin played LT in college... they are all options at LT that would allow us to pivot to WR1 in the first round.   As badly as I want to build from the line out, next year just doesn't have the WR talent that this year does, but it does have some premier LT possibilities.  If we can get LT rental for the year (or beyond), we sign one of the draft's best RTs in the second round, and a guy like Austin Jackson might have what it takes to make the switch next year, or whenever called upon.  

That being said, I see Jeudy and Lamb as being the elite cream of the crop in this class, and I like Higgins as a safe fall-back.  Why are they on the board? Because QBs, freak pass-rushers, freak CB, and teams like us that need OT may opt to get theirs in the draft (for cheaper than Free Agency).

You know why they'd be on the board at 11.  

[chrisfaceoff]

Update on Compensation Washington is seeking 

 

"The Redskins reportedly want a second round pick for Williams, but NFL teams aren't biting at that asking price. That's been the biggest hurdle right now, so unless Washington asks for less draft capital, then everyone will be at a standstill. Even if the Redskins and another team agree on trade compensation, Williams will have to agree to a long-term contract because it's unlikely that he'll play on his current deal. ESPN's John Keim reports Williams wants $20 million annually."

[#27TheDominator]

On 3/11/2020 at 9:36 PM, RobR said:

Slauson was never going to be a starter as a rookie so that should be a mute point. Beides the worth of Faneca we're arguing different points.

My biggest gripe was we rotated Slauson and Vlad every few series during games just for Tanny to save face with his 2nd round selection. It turned out to be a horrible decision because Slauson never wanted to come back here and turned into a pro bowl player....Vlad not so much.

And Faneca was worth every penny. 

When the hell did Matt Slauson make the pro bowl?  I sure as sh*t don't remember that.  They needed Faneca because they managed to sabotage an entire season just to dick with Pete Kendall.  If Mangini wasn't so obsessed with ******* with union reps that team would have been much stronger.  I think they saved like $1M by cutting Mawae.  The guy simply could not handle any strong personalities on the team.

They paid for Faneca to salvage the mess they made after cutting Kendall.  They drafted Slauson in 2009 - he had played for Callahan at Nebraska.  Ducasse was drafted based on measurables in 2010.  I don't think they tried him at G until at least 2011.  I get complaining about the platoon, but I don't think it was done for very long. 

Ducasse was originally envisioned to take Woody's spot because they expected him to retire.  When he did, they were ****ed with the Wayne Hunter debacle.  The following year they added Austin Howard who was fine, but not exactly the powerhouse they had been from 2008-2010.  I'd like to see snap counts.  Both these guys lasted only through their rookie deals and then went elsewhere.  It did make some sense to see if Ducasse could take Slauson's spot.   

 

[RobR]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

When the hell did Matt Slauson make the pro bowl?  I sure as sh*t don't remember that.

I could have swore he made a pro bowl with Chicago but I was wrong. He did make the USA Today All-Joe team, whatever the hell that is.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, RobR said:

I could have swore he made a pro bowl with Chicago but I was wrong. He did make the USA Today All-Joe team, whatever the hell that is.

Something Vlad Ducasse couldn't do.

[SR24]