Draft comp picks

[British Jet]

How do the Patriots keep doing it?

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, British Jet said:

How do the Patriots keep doing it?

Remember when people wanted to bid up Trey Flowers and Trent Brown?  That is how the do it.  Give Thuney a big contract now and see him on the list for a 3rd in 2021.

[British Jet]

Fun facts. 

[rangerous]

given the drafts the jets have had for seemingly forever why should anyone be surprised they don't have any compensatory draft picks?  you gotta pick players who other teams want at the end of their rookie contracts to get these.

[32EBoozer]

Good coaching Makes players look better than they actually are

[JohnnyLV]

The compensatory system in the NFL has the exact opposite of it's intended effect. It came into play to protect bad teams from losing good to players to the top teams in free agency. The reality is that it has become a mechanism for the best teams to continuously build depth by letting good to very good 2nd and 3rd contract guys go in free agency and then gaining additional picks in the draft to build even additional depth. It is another reason that signing Day 0, Day 1 and Day 2 FAs is among the dumbest moves a bad team can make.

[Dcat]

Wow.  Jason at OTC hit 100% on the number of picks each team would get and nearly 100% on the rounds.  He nailed 30 out of 32 with correct team and round.  The only two "misses" were a couple of predicted 4's that actually turned out to be 3's.

[JTJet]

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Wow.  Jason at OTC hit 100% on the number of picks each team would get and nearly 100% on the rounds.  He nailed 30 out of 32 with correct team and round.  The only two "misses" were a couple of predicted 4's that actually turned out to be 3's.

Thats only because he uses a older model compensatory draft chart that's been floating around the net for awhile. Its supposedly a past version of what the NFL used to utilize to dispense the picks. 

[Beerfish]

With the cap going up and up teams can spend more thus if it has not already been adjusted the formula needs to be adjusted price wise as there seems to be way more 3rd rounders than in the past.

With the Jets we fail because the FAs we sign fail badly and we dump them and our own picks do not pan out so we have this perpetual cap space glut that we eagerly spend each year thus negating any guys we actually  lose.

[sec101row23]

Thanks Maccagnan.  

[pdxgreen]

Okay.  Let's look at the actual long term benefit of having a ton of compensation picks.  Here's the list of guys the Patriots have drafted with those picks over the last ten years:

Tyrone McKenzie

George Bussey

Myron Pryor

Ted Larsen

Brandon Deaderick

Kade Weston

Zac Robinson

Cameron Fleming

Geneo Grissom

Xzavier Dickson

Vincent Valentine

Kamu Grugier-Hill

Elandon Roberts

Ted Karras

Braxton Berrios

Yodny Cajuste

Ken Webster

 

Feel jealous?

[jgb]

Because is Belichick is good and we are turrible 

[sec101row23]

11 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Okay.  Let's look at the actual long term benefit of having a ton of compensation picks.  Here's the list of guys the Patriots have drafted with those picks over the last ten years:

Tyrone McKenzie

George Bussey

Myron Pryor

Ted Larsen

Brandon Deaderick

Kade Weston

Zac Robinson

Cameron Fleming

Geneo Grissom

Xzavier Dickson

Vincent Valentine

Kamu Grugier-Hill

Elandon Roberts

Ted Karras

Braxton Berrios

Yodny Cajuste

Ken Webster

 

Feel jealous?

But you can now trade compensatory picks, something you couldn’t do in the past thus making them more valuable.   

[Jetscode1]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

The compensatory system in the NFL has the exact opposite of it's intended effect. It came into play to protect bad teams from losing good to players to the top teams in free agency. The reality is that it has become a mechanism for the best teams to continuously build depth by letting good to very good 2nd and 3rd contract guys go in free agency and then gaining additional picks in the draft to build even additional depth. It is another reason that signing Day 0, Day 1 and Day 2 FAs is among the dumbest moves a bad team can make.

Agreed.  I'd eliminate and suggest the NFL didn't give teams who have not made the playoffs in 10 years or so double draft picks.  This way fans of dumb owners have hope.  Kind of like when I buy extra powerball tickets when its over $100 million.  The odds are still stacked but I have hope for a night.  

[pdxgreen]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

But you can now trade compensatory picks, something you couldn’t do in the past thus making them more valuable.   

So you can trade for a player that will bring you value of pick arund the 5th, 6th or 7th round.  So what would that give you... a Rashard Robiinson project type player?  I am just trying to get a feel for the success rate of compensation picks over time as an actual strategy.  Baltimore and the Cowboys actually have more picks, historically, than the Pats.  Maybe they have better track records.

 

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, British Jet said:

How do the Patriots keep doing it?

Merge with "why are pats letting Thuney walk" thread.

[sec101row23]

25 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

So you can trade for a player that will bring you value of pick arund the 5th, 6th or 7th round.  So what would that give you... a Rashard Robiinson project type player?  I am just trying to get a feel for the success rate of compensation picks over time as an actual strategy.  Baltimore and the Cowboys actually have more picks, historically, than the Pats.  Maybe they have better track records.

 

You can also use them to trade up in a given draft.  Having more of them is better than not having any of them.  

[pdxgreen]

41 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You can also use them to trade up in a given draft.  Having more of them is better than not having any of them.  

Then if you get a third round compensation pick to on a regular basis to get a backup QB or 2nd WR, that's a good strategy.  Collecting a bunch of 6's or 7's... I guess that's good for sticking them in the  bottom of a linen drawer.

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

4 hours ago, British Jet said:

How do the Patriots keep doing it?

Because other teams keep wanting to overpay for Pats’ players.

[MS jets Fan]

Bill B lives for value talent in the later rounds. Guys hungry to play in the NFL and buy into his team first. He gets it wrong sometimes but obviously his draft thought process works out better than most. I’m not Pats lover. Just have to give credit to where it is deserved.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Hael]

7 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

Okay.  Let's look at the actual long term benefit of having a ton of compensation picks.  Here's the list of guys the Patriots have drafted with those picks over the last ten years:

Tyrone McKenzie

George Bussey

Myron Pryor

Ted Larsen

Brandon Deaderick

Kade Weston

Zac Robinson

Cameron Fleming

Geneo Grissom

Xzavier Dickson

Vincent Valentine

Kamu Grugier-Hill

Elandon Roberts

Ted Karras

Braxton Berrios

Yodny Cajuste

Ken Webster

 

Feel jealous?

Eh, a late third is still a late third.  It's sorta irrelevant that it coincidentally happened to be the case that BB tends to hit with his real 3rd and 4th round picks and not his comp 3rd round picks.  Also quite a few of those guys are or were starters and backup players that made the roster.  Those are essentially tremendously cheap players that allow the Pats to spend more money on more important assets. 

That's why their rosters consistently top the charts in terms of value/talent for your buck metrics.

An example on the Jets would be a player like Bilal Powers.   Not a star.   Never was going to be a star.  Always solid but nothing more.  However you could put him in a pinch when your primary rb gets hurt and he wouldn't embarrass your team.  Also, pretty solid value in terms of financials.  You need a good foundation of players like that, that are core to your team.  The Pats, Ravens and Steelers do that better than any team in the league and that's why they're almost always good year after year.

[pdxgreen]

1 hour ago, Hael said:

Eh, a late third is still a late third.  It's sorta irrelevant that it coincidentally happened to be the case that BB tends to hit with his real 3rd and 4th round picks and not his comp 3rd round picks.  Also quite a few of those guys are or were starters and backup players that made the roster.  Those are essentially tremendously cheap players that allow the Pats to spend more money on more important assets. 

That's why their rosters consistently top the charts in terms of value/talent for your buck metrics.

An example on the Jets would be a player like Bilal Powers.   Not a star.   Never was going to be a star.  Always solid but nothing more.  However you could put him in a pinch when your primary rb gets hurt and he wouldn't embarrass your team.  Also, pretty solid value in terms of financials.  You need a good foundation of players like that, that are core to your team.  The Pats, Ravens and Steelers do that better than any team in the league and that's why they're almost always good year after year.

Hence this posted in the same thread:

"Then if you get a third round compensation pick to on a regular basis to get a backup QB or 2nd WR, that's a good strategy."

I like the idea of a decent compensation pick (3 or 4th round) that can be traded or even used to replace an eventual starter.  Not going to sweat them getting a bunch of end of draft filler though  The Pats do what a lot of teams do.  We don't lose a lot of players because our drafts stink.  But I am not going to nash my teeth because the Jets don't have a lot of compensation picks.  There are a ton of ways to build up a roster over time.  I'll give Douglas that time.

[sec101row23]

11 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

Then if you get a third round compensation pick to on a regular basis to get a backup QB or 2nd WR, that's a good strategy.  Collecting a bunch of 6's or 7's... I guess that's good for sticking them in the  bottom of a linen drawer.

That seems like a silly take.  As long as the draft continues to be 7 rounds, having more picks is always better than having less picks.  

[Jetsfan80]

11 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

Then if you get a third round compensation pick to on a regular basis to get a backup QB or 2nd WR, that's a good strategy.  Collecting a bunch of 6's or 7's... I guess that's good for sticking them in the  bottom of a linen drawer.

Super Bowl MVP Malcolm Smith was a 7th round compensatory selection (# 242 overall).

RB Aaron Jones was a 5th round compensatory selection.  

Our current LT Kelvin Beachum was a 7th round compensatory selection (# 248 overall).  

Other quality late-round comp picks from the last decade:

• LB Jatavis Brown (5.175)
• S Kurt Coleman (7.244)
• RB Alex Collins (5.171)
• LB Cole Holcomb (5.173)
• OT Ryan Jensen (6.203)
• LB Devon Kennard (5.174)
• LB Pernell McPhee (5.165)
• LB Elandon Roberts (6.214)
• WR Darius Slayton (5.171)
• WR Marquez Valdes-Scantling (5.174)
• OT Ricky Wagner (5.168)
• LB Vince Williams (6.206)

 

Just stop.

[pdxgreen]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Super Bowl MVP Malcolm Smith was a 7th round compensatory selection (# 242 overall).

RB Aaron Jones was a 5th round compensatory selection.  

Our current LT Kelvin Beachum was a 7th round compensatory selection (# 248 overall).  

Other quality late-round comp picks from the last decade:

• LB Jatavis Brown (5.175)
• S Kurt Coleman (7.244)
• RB Alex Collins (5.171)
• LB Cole Holcomb (5.173)
• OT Ryan Jensen (6.203)
• LB Devon Kennard (5.174)
• LB Pernell McPhee (5.165)
• LB Elandon Roberts (6.214)
• WR Darius Slayton (5.171)
• WR Marquez Valdes-Scantling (5.174)
• OT Ricky Wagner (5.168)
• LB Vince Williams (6.206)

 

Just stop.

How about we stop overanalyzing something everybody does just because we're obsessed with a dour little weasel who walked out on us 20 years ago.  "How do they keep doing it?"  Same f-ing conversation ever year.  Well... talent in, talent out.  Amazing concept!  ----  "he's jobbing the system!"  Shiiiit.  Bill is famous for not overpaying guys and letting ones go that he can replace with players on one year "prove it" deals or late season acquisitions.  Hell.  They haven't really needed all their cap space until the last few years when they got really desperate for playmakers.  It was just they won a lot and we're able to implement Kraft's zero tolerance policy for bumping up their individual player wage bill.  Guys wanted to win so they took less.  There isn't anything profound about losing a player because your coach knows exactly what he can get from each one.  He'll pay for value just not at certain positions.

But  talk to Jets fan and "Instigator Bill" has manufactured this elaborate Ponzi Scheme that nobody else in the NFL has gotten wind too.  No.  He's playing within in the rules.  It's maybe the only ones he hasn't broken.  I only try to find a reason to combat the usual pathos about the subject because I am so f-ing sick of the same old, same old.  This obsessing in minute detail every single thing that another team does.  To the point where you even wonder if your own team has any talking points that are positive or don't devolve into more teeth nashing  and angry dialog about Bill Belicheck.

Draft compensation is worth something.  Good   I'm wrong.  Glad about it.  Let's continue having a discussion about the concept in general  And stop looking for another reason to bash ourselves over the head about the Pats.

[Jetsfan80]

21 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

How about we stop overanalyzing something everybody does just because we're obsessed with a dour little weasel who walked out on us 20 years ago.  "How do they keep doing it?"  Same f-ing conversation ever year.  Well... talent in, talent out.  Amazing concept!  ----  "he's jobbing the system!"  Shiiiit.  Bill is famous for not overpaying guys and letting ones go that he can replace with players on one year "prove it" deals or late season acquisitions.  Hell.  They haven't really needed all their cap space until the last few years when they got really desperate for playmakers.  It was just they won a lot and we're able to implement Kraft's zero tolerance policy for bumping up their individual player wage bill.  Guys wanted to win so they took less.  There isn't anything profound about losing a player because your coach knows exactly what he can get from each one.  He'll pay for value just not at certain positions.

But  talk to Jets fan and "Instigator Bill" has manufactured this elaborate Ponzi Scheme that nobody else in the NFL has gotten wind too.  No.  He's playing within in the rules.  It's maybe the only ones he hasn't broken.  I only try to find a reason to combat the usual pathos about the subject because I am so f-ing sick of the same old, same old.  This obsessing in minute detail every single thing that another team does.  To the point where you even wonder if your own team has any talking points that are positive or don't devolve into more teeth nashing  and angry dialog about Bill Belicheck.

Draft compensation is worth something.  Good   I'm wrong.  Glad about it.  Let's continue having a discussion about the concept in general  And stop looking for another reason to bash ourselves over the head about the Pats.

 

I never mentioned the Patriots in that post.  I'm arguing that, for the most part, the more comp picks the better.  It means you're doing something right.  The Ravens have been the best at this, not the Pats.

But sure, this three paragraph tirade was worthwhile I guess?