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Another Mock With Thomas On The Board At 11


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Another Mock With Thomas Still On The Board At 11

https://247sports.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/ContentGallery/2020-NFL-Mock-Draft-131849780/#131849780_10

I'm starting to have hope that Andrew Thomas may actually be there for the Jets at 11.  This mock has the Jets taking MB, but Thomas is still on the board.  

If Thomas and Becton were both available at 11, who would you go for ???  The seemingly safe play with the more finished player, Thomas, or Beckton with all the impressive measurables ???

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2 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

A guy that is 360 and can dunk a basketball. I want that guy on my team.

His size and athleticism for such a big man is super impressive, but can he really play the position at a pro level ??? I think of a guy like Vlad Ducasse.  The Jets were impressed by his measureables and felt he could be coached up.  The result was a wasted second round pick.  

IMHO... If you already have a fair amount of talent on your offensive line unit, you can afford to swing for the fence and draft MB.  The Jets right now, simply can not afford to make a mistake considering they need 5 starters for the offensive line.  

I'd go with Thomas right now...

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Another Mock With Thomas Still On The Board At 11
https://247sports.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/ContentGallery/2020-NFL-Mock-Draft-131849780/#131849780_10
I'm starting to have hope that Andrew Thomas may actually be there for the Jets at 11.  This mock has the Jets taking MB, but Thomas is still on the board.  
If Thomas and Becton were both available at 11, who would you go for ???  The seemingly safe play with the more finished player, Thomas, or Beckton with all the impressive measurables ???

Thomas for sure.


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Becton is a big risk.  Career make or break.  Could see Gettleman doing that.  

Something about Thomas is no flying with me.  Actually, he and Conklin are similar players.  Not great athletes, but good football players.   

When I look at Josh Jones-that guy looks like a football player-a LT.

When you go back in the draft the last 10 years and look at the LTs drafted who ended up decent, you actually see longer, leaner, athletic guys.   More like Josh Jones.   Even Becton.  Andrew Thomas just looks out of shape to me.  My guess is that he trains very hard but will always look out of shape.  

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Becton is raw. He is a project and therefore a big risk. You just don't know if he will ever develop the necessary skills to succeed in the NFL. I don;t know why anyone would pass on Thomas. He HAS those skills. He HAS the measurables to be -at worst- a solid starting LT. You can see it on film. He is best in the run game- one of the best run blocking OTs in the draft. He has fantastic footwork and quickness in pass protection. Again, one of the top 5 I would say for a LT in the draft. It makes absolutely no sense to pass on this guy. His only flaw is hand technique in pass protection. He leaves himself open too much and often times (maybe b/c he is so used to being an aggressive run blocker) he is too aggressive with his hands and commits, falling prey to stunts. All things you can fix quite easily at the next level, things that simply come with time and experience.  

Becton on the other hand is this massive mound of clay that you need to mold, re-teach, some aspects of his game completely from scratch. Could he turn into a dominant force someday? Sure. But why in the world would you risk that when you have a high end, polished prospect like Thomas available. Makes no sense. Sure, if the top OTs are gone, maybe you gamble. 

Seriously, just watch some film breakdowns of A.Thomas. The dude is a polished NFL ready LT with very few weaknesses and will probably be very very good at the next level. Then watch a breakdown of Becton, he simply pushes guys around with zero technique. He will get owned in the NFL until he learns how to play the position.     

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I’m all Thomas in this scenario. In truth I’ve wavered all over the place as I’ve played around with each guy at LT. I had some fun here.

I got giddy over Bectons size/speed but when the chips are down Thomas is still the best LT prospect in my opinion. With Wirfs right behind him.

That said, I would be ok with a trade down with Denver or so to gain an additional 2nd or 3rd and taking Jones at 15. There is so much awesome talent I like in this draft and an additional 2nd makes it ok for me to sprinkle in some defense in the first 3 rds. Edge or CB specifically.

But that all said I would probably take a page from Jerry Jones 2019 playbook and say “ why don’t we simply take the guy we like at this spot”.

And that’s Andrew Thomas.


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22 hours ago, varjet said:

Becton is a big risk.  Career make or break.  Could see Gettleman doing that.  

Something about Thomas is no flying with me.  Actually, he and Conklin are similar players.  Not great athletes, but good football players.   

When I look at Josh Jones-that guy looks like a football player-a LT.

When you go back in the draft the last 10 years and look at the LTs drafted who ended up decent, you actually see longer, leaner, athletic guys.   More like Josh Jones.   Even Becton.  Andrew Thomas just looks out of shape to me.  My guess is that he trains very hard but will always look out of shape.  

Agree... I hope Gettleman will do us the favor and take him.  They are in the market for an offensive lineman.  If they take MB, it means one more team before us that will not take Thomas or Wirfs or Wills.  

IMHO, Gettleman and Mara already made a big mistake by taking a chance with Daniel Jones.  He has a fatal flaw that cant be coached.  Zero, and I mean ZERO pocket awareness.  Jones can move, he has a very nice arm, good ball placement and plenty of intangibles... BUT... Like Ken O'Brien, he does not see the pressure coming.  He's going to be killing drives and giving away points with sacks and fumbles from this point on until he is on to his second career.  

Let's hope Gettleman takes another big risk with MB

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Drafting the 4th best tackle at #11 is a terrible idea. You can take it to the bank that 2 of those 4 tackles will not live up to their draft position and getting the 4th choice of the group makes it more likely that they'll bust. Sign two tackles, draft Jeudy or Lamb and then sit back and enjoy a very good offense.

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23 hours ago, THE BARON said:

His size and athleticism for such a big man is super impressive, but can he really play the position at a pro level ??? I think of a guy like Vlad Ducasse.  The Jets were impressed by his measureables and felt he could be coached up.  The result was a wasted second round pick.  

IMHO... If you already have a fair amount of talent on your offensive line unit, you can afford to swing for the fence and draft MB.  The Jets right now, simply can not afford to make a mistake considering they need 5 starters for the offensive line.  

I'd go with Thomas right now...

You're comparing apples to oranges. One is in the ACC with great film while Vlad was a small school guy with great film against inferior non NFL prospect. Vlad has measurable on par with the average lineman. Becton is looking like Johnathan Ogden. What does it means to be swinging on the fences for someone who played great. Had Becton played terrible, however scouts still loved his size and projected him as a top 10 pick, I would then considered him and boom or bust prospect.

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21 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Agree... I hope Gettleman will do us the favor and take him.  They are in the market for an offensive lineman.  If they take MB, it means one more team before us that will not take Thomas or Wirfs or Wills.  

IMHO, Gettleman and Mara already made a big mistake by taking a chance with Daniel Jones.  He has a fatal flaw that cant be coached.  Zero, and I mean ZERO pocket awareness.  Jones can move, he has a very nice arm, good ball placement and plenty of intangibles... BUT... Like Ken O'Brien, he does not see the pressure coming.  He's going to be killing drives and giving away points with sacks and fumbles from this point on until he is on to his second career.  

Let's hope Gettleman takes another big risk with MB

Good point about Jones.  That is what doomed Geno Smith more than anything, he had QB talent but the worst pocket awareness of any QB i had seen .

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Good point about Jones.  That is what doomed Geno Smith more than anything, he had QB talent but the worst pocket awareness of any QB i had seen .

Agree... Geno also only saw half the field.  His progression was never there... 

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12 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

You're comparing apples to oranges. One is in the ACC with great film while Vlad was a small school guy with great film against inferior non NFL prospect. Vlad has measurable on par with the average lineman. Becton is looking like Johnathan Ogden. What does it means to be swinging on the fences for someone who played great. Had Becton played terrible, however scouts still loved his size and projected him as a top 10 pick, I would then considered him and boom or bust prospect.

Louisville doesn't exactly play "Little Sisters Of The Poor", but neither are they going against the top of the line.  If memory serves, MB didn't look like a world beater going against the d-line for Clemson.  As big and athletic as he is, he will still take some time to develop, I'd say.  I would gather that such an evaluation would come down to a private workout with the NFL team's o-line coach having a close look at him...

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4 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Louisville doesn't exactly play "Little Sisters Of The Poor", but neither are they going against the top of the line.  If memory serves, MB didn't look like a world beater going against the d-line for Clemson.  As big and athletic as he is, he will still take some time to develop, I'd say.  I would gather that such an evaluation would come down to a private workout with the NFL team's o-line coach having a close look at him...

 

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14 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

 

Thank you for posting.  Much appreciated.  Here is what I see.  Massively powerful.  The few times I saw him lock-up he is unbeatable.  His arm are nice and long.  Great for a LT.   Is fast, eager and able to get out in space and block ahead of the LOS.  On the down side, he seems clumsy and off balance a lot of the time.  He is also more of a hole blaster like a big bumper cart rather than the technician you would want at the LT spot.  

I would leave the decision up to an NFL offensive line coach weather or not he can be polished into an NFL LT that can handle all the directional changes he is going to have to make.  There will be DE's with all kinds of moves and all sort of line stunts that will make him have to change direction a lot of the time.  He'll have to get that worked out fast if they make him a starter.

My conclusion is still the same.  If  you cant afford to take time developing a LT (like the Jets), I think it would be a risky pick.  If you already have a decent sable on your offensive line and can afford to give him some time, it could be a 4 run homer... 

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8 minutes ago, mphtrilogy said:

herbert and brown have to go in top 10, or no OL , imho

 

 

I think both will... Especially Herbert, who I think is the best QB of this draft.  I have a suspicion there are a few GM's who think so too even thought they aint saying it now <wink>

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5 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Thank you for posting.  Much appreciated.  Here is what I see.  Massively powerful.  The few times I saw him lock-up he is unbeatable.  His arm are nice and long.  Great for a LT.   Is fast, eager and able to get out in space and block ahead of the LOS.  On the down side, he seems clumsy and off balance a lot of the time.  He is also more of a hole blaster like a big bumper cart rather than the technician you would want at the LT spot.  

I would leave the decision up to an NFL offensive line coach weather or not he can be polished into an NFL LT that can handle all the directional changes he is going to have to make.  There will be DE's with all kinds of moves and all sort of line stunts that will make him have to change direction a lot of the time.  He'll have to get that worked out fast if they make him a starter.

My conclusion is still the same.  If  you cant afford to take time developing a LT (like the Jets), I think it would be a risky pick.  If you already have a decent sable on your offensive line and can afford to give him some time, it could be a 4 run homer... 

Fair assessment, just thought the Vlad comparisons was a reach.

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2 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

Fair assessment, just thought the Vlad comparisons was a reach.

Yeah.. The Vlad thing was not an ideal comparison.  Was just trying to point out that guys with measureables and athleticism don't always make good football players.  When ever I see a player rising up the draft board due to impressive measurables, I take caution...   

I would love to know what Dante Scharnecchia thinks of MB... 

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1 hour ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

You're comparing apples to oranges. One is in the ACC with great film while Vlad was a small school guy with great film against inferior non NFL prospect. Vlad has measurable on par with the average lineman. Becton is looking like Johnathan Ogden. What does it means to be swinging on the fences for someone who played great. Had Becton played terrible, however scouts still loved his size and projected him as a top 10 pick, I would then considered him and boom or bust prospect.

Good point.

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It's also important to remember that if the Jets draft the 4th tackle, that doesn't mean he was the 4th tackle on the Jets' board or on everyone's board.  It's possible the 4th guy picked could be #1 on the Jets' board or at least #3.  

So, with the caveat of having to see what happens in Free Agency, I wouldn't necessarily feel like we "settled" of we draft the 4th OT taken

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1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

Yeah.. The Vlad thing was not an ideal comparison.  Was just trying to point out that guys with measureables and athleticism don't always make good football players.  When ever I see a player rising up the draft board due to impressive measurables, I take caution...   

I would love to know what Dante Scharnecchia thinks of MB... 

I think Daniel Jeremiah dropped Becton post combine FWIW. The whole narrative of guys rising is kind of nonsense - media isn’t always in lockstep with teams and as they figure out where they’re wrong they correct over time. See it more with positions like the OL because they don’t have the benefit of stats to point them in a direction line they do with skill positions, edge, etc.

And there are likely to be a super wide range of opinions on Becton because he just doesn’t fit into any current prototypes. And that’s fine. I think Becton is a risky pick but less risky than he gets pegged as being. The whole lack of pass blocking snaps and eh grade is concerning for a raw guy but he’s also a sharp and immensely talented. Douglas is an OL guy, I imagine he’ll formulate his own opinion and that’s what we’ll roll with. Right now only he knows if he sees Ogden or somebody way too risky for eleven.

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6 minutes ago, derp said:

I think Daniel Jeremiah dropped Becton post combine FWIW. The whole narrative of guys rising is kind of nonsense - media isn’t always in lockstep with teams and as they figure out where they’re wrong they correct over time. See it more with positions like the OL because they don’t have the benefit of stats to point them in a direction line they do with skill positions, edge, etc.

And there are likely to be a super wide range of opinions on Becton because he just doesn’t fit into any current prototypes. And that’s fine. I think Becton is a risky pick but less risky than he gets pegged as being. The whole lack of pass blocking snaps and eh grade is concerning for a raw guy but he’s also a sharp and immensely talented. Douglas is an OL guy, I imagine he’ll formulate his own opinion and that’s what we’ll roll with. Right now only he knows if he sees Ogden or somebody way too risky for eleven.

I could be wrong, but watching him gives me the idea that he has so much weight above his waist, he cant change is direction once he gets moving with the way he currently uses his body below the waist.  I think that is just technique and he may be trainable.  He might even be better off on the right side.  He would be a bulldozer in the running game as a RT...

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2 hours ago, choon328 said:

Drafting the 4th best tackle at #11 is a terrible idea. You can take it to the bank that 2 of those 4 tackles will not live up to their draft position and getting the 4th choice of the group makes it more likely that they'll bust. Sign two tackles, draft Jeudy or Lamb and then sit back and enjoy a very good offense.

By your own statement, 4th selected is NOT the same as 4th best. If the 4th rated tackle by the Jets is the only choice at 11 and you have other players rated higher maybe you choose that player, but the Jets could easily have one of their Top 2 there maybe even their highest rated tackle. Also, from what I have read any of the 4 would likely be #1 in recent drafts. Still no guarantee they will work out of course.

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7 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

I could be wrong, but watching him gives me the idea that he has so much weight above his waist, he cant change is direction once he gets moving with the way he currently uses his body below the waist.  I think that is just technique and he may be trainable.  He might even be better off on the right side.  He would be a bulldozer in the running game as a RT...

I think he’s just absolutely gigantic. Looks proportional to me though. To me he’s able to make up for lack of technique with physical tools and then potentially gets better with technique added. Upside to be an elite performer and floor is a road grader RT like you said.

The Jeremiah write up kind of touched on the technique vs tools thing - sometimes he misses his punch but he’s so strong that even if guys get into his body a little it doesn’t matter much. Iron out the technique and he should be even better. He’s not awesome in space but I think he’s just looking to destroy guys where he’s so big that in space he has to just worry about finding somebody. I did think in what I watched in the Clemson clip - a lot of what Louisville did took advantage of his ability to just collapse part of the line. He was more effective some times than others but I think with experience he could be really really dangerous.

It’s a bit of an awkward different position comparison - but to me Becton may be on the board at ten or eleven because guys that big just don’t come around and it’s strange for teams to handle - and if he does the question would be is that the only reason he’s there or are those questions about his pass pro legitimate. Because otherwise it’s like Aaron Donald being short for a defensive tackle or JJ Watt being gigantic for a defensive end but you’ve got freakish tools and insane college production in an unusual package and somehow they fall a little.

Aside from the pass pro question I’d wonder about injuries - particularly foot stuff. Sometimes the body just isn’t made to carry weight like that.

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On 3/12/2020 at 10:04 AM, THE BARON said:

Another Mock With Thomas Still On The Board At 11

https://247sports.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/ContentGallery/2020-NFL-Mock-Draft-131849780/#131849780_10

I'm starting to have hope that Andrew Thomas may actually be there for the Jets at 11.  This mock has the Jets taking MB, but Thomas is still on the board.  

If Thomas and Becton were both available at 11, who would you go for ???  The seemingly safe play with the more finished player, Thomas, or Beckton with all the impressive measurables ???

I go with the more polished player Andrew Thomas. The kid that played SEC vintage schools with genuine NFL caliber talent week in and week out. He's much more of a known commodity. 

Now, I would also select Mechi Bechton, but only if he slips and I (as acting GM) don't have to invest so much equity into a "chance" or "developmental" pick. If he slips to the 2nd round, which I suppose he could, stranger things have happened in the draft? I pounce on him. In the 2nd round he's extraordinary value, at 11 not so much and I always want to hedge my bets as best I can.

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