Kingmaker Mafia - Game Over, Scum Win!

[Leelou]

33 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

Gotcha. Has that opinion changed?

Haven't had time to do a reread yet. Working on that now. 

[Barry McCockinner]

On 3/21/2020 at 11:04 AM, Nynaeve said:

I feel like Pac was shot to either implicate players that were voting him or there are players/player in the scum team that can read him well and maybe somehow caught wind that he was a PR. I think it's prolly the first reason cause I haven't noticed any breadcrumbing myself. But not going to try to infer something from it because that kill was made for a reason. And that reason wasn't to help us catch scum so lol

 

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I dont recall seeing her play the, "why Pac game".  I remember seeing an explanation.  Which is totally different. 

Provide the post and I'll show you the difference. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

10 hours ago, GATA said:

Weren’t you still on the train fapper? 

Yes, I still wanted a dead Pac, and by then, I also felt it could be informative.  Win-win.  

[JustInFudge]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:46 AM, Barry McCockinner said:

 

I thought the PAC NK was interesting. He didn't make any reads or anything - just was pac being pac. Maybe they thought it was a good move because his train built up and that obfuscated things. Maybe he has a history of self-voting when he has a PR?

 

 

 

On 3/21/2020 at 11:04 AM, Nynaeve said:

I feel like Pac was shot to either implicate players that were voting him or there are players/player in the scum team that can read him well and maybe somehow caught wind that he was a PR. I think it's prolly the first reason cause I haven't noticed any breadcrumbing myself. But not going to try to infer something from it because that kill was made for a reason. And that reason wasn't to help us catch scum so lol

I didn't think what dicker did was scummy. I actually thought it was mildly townie. There isn't some kind of rulebook on how to read players like dicker. I'd like to think I found some guidelines by playing with him some. That whole research thing? I don't see him doing that as scum. But that's my opinion *shrugs*  I got killed pretty early last game so I didn't get to see how he plays as scum. So I get that I could be wrong. But I don't think I am. He was saying scummy stuff that he'd try to avoid as scum imo.

good post overall btw

Ok, Barry here's the difference between what you and Nyn did in regards to Pac.

First, you posed multiple questions that could have been statements.  Questions and statements are 2 very different things.  A question if used correctly, can lead the town on a hunt for "why" when that doesnt really accomplish anything.  Who is the goal.  There could be a hundreds reasons why and a smart scum team, would look to pick someone that if the town was to search for why, they'd land in place where they find no closure or even into a frame....which is what Nyn is getting at in the bold and 80 explained as well.  

So you posed a question, one that could send the town on a goose chase.  The fact Nyn answered you, is actually a mission accomplished scenario, however, Nyn (who is my strongest town read) quickly made it clear that you're wasting effort.  

If you had said; I think scum killed Pac because they thought he was PR.  That is drastically different than; Geez town, I wonder why scum chose Pac?  Was it because of this?  Or maybe because of that?   The veterans who play with me know, it's my #1 tell.  Ironically, I nailed Pac with it once and he cried the entire way to a lynch and then after death, tried to argue how it wasnt a tell.   lol.  He's truly one of the worst mafia players of all time.

 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

Ok, Barry here's the difference between what you and Nyn did in regards to Pac.

First, you posed multiple questions that could have been statements.  Questions and statements are 2 very different things.  A question if used correctly, can lead the town on a hunt for "why" when that doesnt really accomplish anything.  Who is the goal.  There could be a hundreds reasons why and a smart scum team, would look to pick someone that if the town was to search for why, they'd land in place where they find no closure or even into a frame....which is what Nyn is getting at in the bold and 80 explained as well.  

So you posed a question, one that could send the town on a goose chase.  The fact Nyn answered you, is actually a mission accomplished scenario, however, Nyn (who is my strongest town read) quickly made it clear that you're wasting effort.  

If you had said; I think scum killed Pac because they thought he was PR.  That is drastically different than; Geez town, I wonder why scum chose Pac?  Was it because of this?  Or maybe because of that?   The veterans who play with me know, it's my #1 tell.  Ironically, I nailed Pac with it once and he cried the entire way to a lynch and then after death, tried to argue how it wasnt a tell.   lol.  He's truly one of the worst mafia players of all time.

 

 

I stated two reasons I thought it could be - the second I made a question because it would be something people who have experience playing w/pac would know. Neither of those things would have sent anyone on a wild goose chase.  Nyn basically did the same f'n thing and followed it up with a clause. 

Not sure if you're blinded by arrogance or just fabricating a case on an easy target. 

 

 

[Verbal]

Fake Vote Count

80 (2) – Nyn, Leelou

GATA (2) – Greece, Crusher

JiF (1) – CTM

Greece (1) – Jvill

CTM (1) – 80

Nyn (1) - Stark

Drums (1) - Barry

Kdels (1) - Drums

Leelou (1) - Kdels

[Leelou]

Okay, I've skimmed a few pages, I'm staying with my current reads. I'll revise that I've seen more from Gata and I'm not hating it, but still not town comfortable there. Kdels is still unmemorable in terms of actual game play. I'm alright with AVM now that he's getting into the game. 

 

My day is starting to boil before it completely blows up. I can commit that if I'm still alive come D3 I'll do everything I can to dig in and make way better reads. 

[Jetsfan80]

21 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Not sure if you're blinded by arrogance or just fabricating a case on an easy target. 

Easy target?  Have you even been lynched yet in your rookie season?

[Barry McCockinner]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Easy target?  Have you even been lynched yet in your rookie season?

Of course I was last game. I say easy target because I'm a noob that talks a lot and says a lot of unwittingly "gross" things. 

[Jetsfan80]

On 3/22/2020 at 9:31 AM, kdels62 said:

Cool. You’re really working hard on scum hunting with this analysis. Anyway I’m gonna go ahead and vote Leelou.

i don’t like the way the first day plus night went. It was all too convenient. I don’t think anything about Spoot indicated scum and even tho PAC was a joke vote/ first day thing his eventual death bothered me. 

 

Who did you want Leelou to lynch on D1?

[Jetsfan80]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:15 PM, Nolder said:

lol ok.

Just think about it. I'm not the only one noticing so it's not a me thing it's a you thing.

I'll talk to you again when you cool your jets a little.

Got a top 2/3?

[Stark]

22 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

We'll see what Stark's entire ass thinks about that.

This variation is interesting. You don't get any of the momentum movement on the trains that we saw in the last couple of games - at least not yet. Puts a lot of pressure on the king to be more proactive and force action. 

im just giving you sh*t most of the time BMath.

16 hours ago, GATA said:

How do you translate decker? 

15 hours ago, GATA said:

This is decker quoting a 2016 game.

Thoughts, even tho he did post stuff that mean 0 currently in this Game; it reminded me of the last time I played with him and he was town. He was trying his best to be helpful even if it wasn’t helpful. 
This is pre-AVM currently not hating AVM

It was early when I said that. his posts have been more coherent in general. 

you seemed to do a decent job, @CTM updated your language extension, nice.

 

23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Easy target?  Have you even been lynched yet in your rookie season?

not early. Although I was willing to lynch him D2 last game. 

@JiF why nyn your strongest town read? 

 

 

I am still good with my vote on Nyn for the eod actions and the little weekend activity. I did a quick catch up, but i need to go back and read again with a little better attention. 

I moved my office to my house this morning for then next few weeks, so i will be limited for a little while.

[Jetsfan80]

On 3/22/2020 at 9:46 AM, The Crusher said:

Yes. I use my antics to get scum to bite. Doesn’t matter if it’s being grumpy playing or being grumpy asking to be replaced. I caught Stark a few games back doing that but they might killed me that night. I’m not trying to be hurtful sweet one, just an observation. Ultimately doesn’t matter what anyone but the kings maker thinks. Rest of yoy are background singers. Think of me as the Hype man. 

Not sure how this works.  To my knowledge asking to be replaced rarely draws a NK.  A disengaged townie is good for scum to keep around.   

It would have made more sense for you to say you were trying to protect yourself from a NK, given your reputation as a tough-to-lynch player.

Either way, glad to see you're jumping in.

[Jetsfan80]

unvote vote kdels

Weak case on Leelou.

 

[kdels62]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

unvote vote kdels

Weak case on Leelou.

 

As opposed to all the compelling cases on here. The series of votes just rubbed me the wrong way. Where did you sit on Spoot on Day 1?

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

As opposed to all the compelling cases on here. The series of votes just rubbed me the wrong way. Where did you sit on Spoot on Day 1?

I had no firm read on him at the time.  He was asking to be killed so gun to my head I would have said town at the time.  But I'm not going to case Leelou based on that.  It was D1, the leading vote-getter had 3 votes, and basically she was just going with her gut, which is all a King/Queen could really do in that instance.  

She even announced on thread it was between Spoot or Barry, IIRC.  If anyone had a problem with it at the time they should have spoke up. 

It's weak sauce.  

[GATA]

I couldn't finish thoroughly re-reading and right now I'm in work mode. 

Just like Lee I didn't see anything memorable from Kdels I also feel the same about Jvill I want to see more. 

Here's where I'm at right now 

Scum lean to Town

@JiF- Emo overreaction NOTED

@Nolder - Said a lot voted once Noted 

@Barry McCockinner - The push on Lee pinged a bit joke face I get it but we have to think about all possibilities and it just doesn't sit well.

Null

@kdels62 / @jvill 51 I'd also like to hear back from you see what you think so far?

@greece666 (he's still new but I want to see him actually get in the game if not (this is a pretty safe place for scum to hide just sitting on me)

@Nynaeve I'm not going to tinfoil on the whole aggressive thing. Stark made a point about her not really voting but just posting reads. That's noted

@Jetsfan80 Kept pushing the pac thing not really a tell as he can be blood thirsty esp for the Pacmule. 

@The Crusher Hard to read he says he's changing his play style I'll flow with it and keep a close eye.  

@StarkRL stuff happening I don't blame him for spending time w/ his children at this time. I'm not going to case him for inactivety as he has stated he can't be as active. 

Town lean 

@Leelou I think she took her time voting last time I think it's hard voting d1 I didn't find her vote scummy .  

decker/ @AVM- both players are crazy but I think the decker's overhelpfulness (is that even a word) reminds me of his last town game.  

@CTM I am ok  with him so far I can see the rationale so I don't hate him yet. Not going to vet him either he could easily be scum strategically calculating  his verbiage but I just don't see it yet

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I had no firm read on him at the time.  He was asking to be killed so gun to my head I would have said town at the time.  But I'm not going to case Leelou based on that.  It was D1, the leading vote-getter had 3 votes, and basically she was just going with her gut, which is all a King could really do in that instance.  

She even announced on thread it was between Spoot or Barry, IIRC.  If anyone had a problem with it at the time they should have spoke up. 

It's weak sauce.  

Any vote on day 1 is a shot in the dark. The only thing that seemed to be fairly clear was Spoot's behavior was Spoot as town. I'm on a hunch based on how the first two events went. It was like a bad choice followed by a cover up. I'm not sure on anything but it felt off. I'm curious about why thats a weak but you're case is that "well this admittedly weak case is weak." Seems like you're trying too hard. 

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Any vote on day 1 is a shot in the dark. The only thing that seemed to be fairly clear was Spoot's behavior was Spoot as town. I'm on a hunch based on how the first two events went. It was like a bad choice followed by a cover up. I'm not sure on anything but it felt off. I'm curious about why thats a weak but you're case is that "well this admittedly weak case is weak." Seems like you're trying too hard. 

What "cover up"?

Trying too hard, yes.  A vote on you based on 1 post is a lot of effort.  GFY

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

What "cover up"?

Trying too hard, yes.  A vote on you based on 1 post is a lot of effort.  GFY

"Based on 1 post" 

Nice strong argument. Iron-clad. Impressive

[Verbal]

Fake Vote Count

80 (2) – Nyn, Leelou

GATA (2) – Greece, Crusher

Kdels (2) - Drums, 80

JiF (1) – CTM

Greece (1) – Jvill

Nyn (1) - Stark

Drums (1) - Barry

Leelou (1) - Kdels

[CTM]

25 minutes ago, GATA said:

I couldn't finish thoroughly re-reading and right now I'm in work mode. 

Just like Lee I didn't see anything memorable from Kdels I also feel the same about Jvill I want to see more. 

Here's where I'm at right now 

Scum lean to Town

@JiF- Emo overreaction NOTED

@Nolder - Said a lot voted once Noted 

@Barry McCockinner - The push on Lee pinged a bit joke face I get it but we have to think about all possibilities and it just doesn't sit well.

Null

@kdels62 / @jvill 51 I'd also like to hear back from you see what you think so far?

@greece666 (he's still new but I want to see him actually get in the game if not (this is a pretty safe place for scum to hide just sitting on me)

@Nynaeve I'm not going to tinfoil on the whole aggressive thing. Stark made a point about her not really voting but just posting reads. That's noted

@Jetsfan80 Kept pushing the pac thing not really a tell as he can be blood thirsty esp for the Pacmule. 

@The Crusher Hard to read he says he's changing his play style I'll flow with it and keep a close eye.  

@StarkRL stuff happening I don't blame him for spending time w/ his children at this time. I'm not going to case him for inactivety as he has stated he can't be as active. 

Town lean 

@Leelou I think she took her time voting last time I think it's hard voting d1 I didn't find her vote scummy .  

decker/ @AVM- both players are crazy but I think the decker's overhelpfulness (is that even a word) reminds me of his last town game.  

@CTM I am ok  with him so far I can see the rationale so I don't hate him yet. Not going to vet him either he could easily be scum strategically calculating  his verbiage but I just don't see it yet

g@tabot

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I stated two reasons I thought it could be - the second I made a question because it would be something people who have experience playing w/pac would know. Neither of those things would have sent anyone on a wild goose chase.  Nyn basically did the same f'n thing and followed it up with a clause. 

Not sure if you're blinded by arrogance or just fabricating a case on an easy target. 

 

 

You didnt state a reason, you floated ideas by asking questions.  There is a difference.

Nyn did not do the same thing.  Did you read anything I just wrote?  She explained why answering YOUR question.  lol, brah

And here we are, still talking about it...

[Barry McCockinner]

unvote

vote jif

[JustInFudge]

57 minutes ago, Stark said:

im just giving you sh*t most of the time BMath.

It was early when I said that. his posts have been more coherent in general. 

you seemed to do a decent job, @CTM updated your language extension, nice.

 

not early. Although I was willing to lynch him D2 last game. 

@JiF why nyn your strongest town read? 

 

 

I am still good with my vote on Nyn for the eod actions and the little weekend activity. I did a quick catch up, but i need to go back and read again with a little better attention. 

I moved my office to my house this morning for then next few weeks, so i will be limited for a little while.

For the most, I find myself nodding my head when I read her posts.  Seems like a genuine town effort, even if we're not landing on the same reads.  Also, the way she framed some conversation, specifically in response to Barry, was oozing town IMO.  I'll leave it at that. 

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

For the most, I find myself nodding my head when I read her posts.  Seems like a genuine town effort, even if we're not landing on the same reads.  Also, the way she framed some conversation, specifically in response to Barry, was oozing town IMO.  I'll leave it at that. 

OMGUDS?

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

unvote

vote jif

I feel your OMGUS and it's delicious.  Youre new but any one of the vets will tell you, this is my favorite tell.  I call it out every single time and have a ton of success with it.  Because you're new it's possible innocent town behavior but it has to be called out.  What's almost more concerning now is; if you are town and it was innocent behavior, why are you refusing to recognize the difference in what you did vs. Nyn?  If anything, since you were the person to ask the questions, you should understand the nuances in play here better than anyone.  That and I'm not the only one to point out how the original ping is a wasted effort.  It's like you're sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to listen to the explanation.  It's quite simple logic to follow.

 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

I feel your OMGUS and it's delicious.  Youre new but any one of the vets will tell you, this is my favorite tell.  I call it out every single time and have a ton of success with it.  Because you're new it's possible innocent town behavior but it has to be called out.  What's almost more concerning now is; if you are town and it was innocent behavior, why are you refusing to recognize the difference in what you did vs. Nyn?  If anything, since you were the person to ask the questions, you should understand the nuances in play here better than anyone.  That and I'm not the only one to point out how the original ping is a wasted effort.  It's like you're sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to listen to the explanation.  It's quite simple logic to follow.

 

 

There is basically no difference thus you're full of sh*t.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Easy target?  Have you even been lynched yet in your rookie season?

I always find it funny someone calling themselves an easy target when talking to us since our names are used as examples in the mafia dictionary. 

[GATA]

14 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

unvote

vote jif

Are you voting out of OMGUS or what’s the story here ? 
JIF being full of sh*t? 
 

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, CTM said:

OMGUDS?

Oh my god you dick suck?  Nyn?  weird.

[CTM]

Just now, JiF said:

Oh my god you dick suck?  Nyn?  weird.

Haha no.. dont suck, ie she supported you so you town read.

Perv

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, GATA said:

Are you voting out of OMGUS or what’s the story here ? 
JIF being full of sh*t? 
 

I just think he's full of sh*t.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

There is basically no difference thus you're full of sh*t.

Wait, seriously?  You cant be this obtuse.

You asked a question.  She answered.  She didnt offer up why she thought scum killed Pac out of the blue, she directly quoted you and answered your questions about why Pac.  

lmfao - this is nutty bro

 

[Jetsfan80]

34 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

"Based on 1 post" 

Nice strong argument. Iron-clad. Impressive

It can't be both "trying too hard" AND lazy at the same time.  That was my point.