Kingmaker Mafia - Game Over, Scum Win!

[kdels62]

The constant questioning seems to be working in scum favor. There’s false votes and false reasoning and encouraging more bad reasoning based on votes that don’t matter. The two Kings so far have emphasized that plurality is worthless and for the chaos that AVM brings he also allowed Drums to try and bring up a crap case against me. More bad Info. 

Im leaning scum on Gata because she is further encouraging that bad anti-town discourse. 

[Nolder]

3 hours ago, GATA said:

 

The post where he’s basically saying there’s no need to vote and to lynch quickly so we don’t carry out long days is gross to me. We need information votes give us information whether players are hiding etc 

With less information we help scum hide I just don’t see the plus to this train of thought so he’s got my vote 

Everything in this post is basically bullsh*t.

 

Quote

The post where he’s basically saying there’s no need to vote

Note the weasel word "basically". I didn't "basically" say there's no need to vote I said voting doesn't really matter it's not the kind of game we're playing.

 

Quote

and to lynch quickly so we don’t carry out long days is gross to me.

I already copped to being somewhat impatient but I believe the underlying premise of what I was saying is still valid. JN has had this problem lately of leaving games right to the very edge of a deadline for every single lynch and a lot of the time we aren't even able to consolidate and settle on a lynch making it go random. That's not how you play mafia, that's sh*t.

 

Let me give you an example and you tell me if you think this is reasonable or not. It's Monday morning 6AM EST and a mafia game just started on D1 with a deadline of Wednesday 9PM EST. I think the ideal time to lynch is afternoon on Wednesday maybe like 1 or 2PM EST. I do not believe that the extra use of those hours is often (often not always) going to give us any extra information that couldn't be gotten by lynching earlier rather than later. This way you don't run the risk of scrambling at the end and missing lynches and this way the game also doesn't stagnate as much which is kind of what happens when we just sit around and talk for too long. At some point a decision needs to be made and I believe that decision needs to be made reasonably BEFORE a deadline not right up to the minute.

 

You tell me, am I really going too far with this?

 

Quote

We need information votes give us information whether players are hiding etc

Except this isn't Mafia this is Kingmaker and that's wrong. Look what happened with AVM yesterday, our votes didn't mean sh*t and there is almost nothing to be gleaned from them imo. If you can't tell who's hiding and who isn't without a vote count maybe you should go back to mafia bootcamp lol.

 

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With less information we help scum hide I just don’t see the plus to this train of thought so he’s got my vote

Wtf are you even talking about? This is just a nonsense excuse to come at me. I would have thought it was because you were on a team with CTM but I see he claimed Knight so I guess I have to reassess what's going on. Regardless, dumb post and dumb vote. 2/10 did not enjoy.

[Nolder]

3 hours ago, CTM said:

**** it. since we are random killing without much warning i'm going to role claim right now

I'm the knight, which is verbal flavor for doc

I think we should kill the kingmaker, hopefully this narrows the odds.

We know the kingmaker isn't me, avm or leeloue

Wait....just to be clear....you are advocating we lynch a townie?

You've let Gatabot do your thinking for you a little too long. Wake up sheeple!

[Nolder]

3 hours ago, CTM said:

I'm not complaining, just dealing with the reality of our situation. What is the point of casing if the king just going to go rogue (not that I did case yesterday)

 

 

Exactly. This is basically my point. This is Kingmaker, not mafia.

Casing and voting....yeah you can still do them and I see some people feel strongly about that.

But it's not as important in this gametype. I think this gametype is a lot more about actions, specifically the kings and those jockeying for the kings favor.

[Nolder]

47 minutes ago, Stark said:

if we want to get the kingmaker I’m cool with going to regular play. I’m not the king maker. 

wtf

 

Am I taking crazy pills or did I **** up when I read the rules?

Kingmaker is a TOWN ROLE!

[Nolder]

38 minutes ago, CTM said:

It's day 3 and I don't know what we've learned. No trains to analyze, nobody forced to make decisions or momentum votes. Nothing nada zilch, kaput.

This gametype obviously isn't your forte. I'm not claiming to be good at it or anything (first time player) but I think I comprehend it better than you. You and others are missing the forest for the trees here.

[CTM]

4 minutes ago, Nolder said:

Wait....just to be clear....you are advocating we lynch a townie?

You've let Gatabot do your thinking for you a little too long. Wake up sheeple!

Yep. I view the King as an inhibitor to the town's ability to win. + the backup is dead

[CTM]

Just now, Nolder said:

This gametype obviously isn't your forte. I'm not claiming to be good at it or anything (first time player) but I think I comprehend it better than you. You and others are missing the forest for the trees here.

Ok, then splain

[Nolder]

40 minutes ago, CTM said:

Plus, at end game, the king could end up making scum king

Kill the king maker 

I mean....that's an argument at least. 

I think it's a sh*tty one but I can at least understand the logic behind it.

[Nolder]

Just now, CTM said:

Ok, then splain

Like I said it's not so much about paint by numbers analyze vote trains type of play. It's a lot more like old school irl mafia (the one with basically no roles) where you kind of just look at what people say and think about why they're saying it and why they do or say the things that they do. If you've ever watched people play irl they don't talk about voting patterns and sh*t like that they sit there and giggle and say you looked at me funny therefore you're mafia. It's a lot more...I don't want to say emotion based because that's not right. It's just a lot less logical and reason based and that's where I think you're floundering. You're too used to mafia being a puzzle to solve rather than a guessing game like it really used to be.

[Nolder]

3 minutes ago, CTM said:

Yep. I view the King as an inhibitor to the town's ability to win. + the backup is dead

So, question, let's just say most of us agreed that this was in fact the best course of action.

 

What do we do if the Kingmaker doesn't willingly claim and offer themselves up for sacrifice?

Also I'm not really a numbers guy, can we even still afford a mislynch?

[CTM]

2 hours ago, Nolder said:

Like I said it's not so much about paint by numbers analyze vote trains type of play. It's a lot more like old school irl mafia (the one with basically no roles) where you kind of just look at what people say and think about why they're saying it and why they do or say the things that they do. If you've ever watched people play irl they don't talk about voting patterns and sh*t like that they sit there and giggle and say you looked at me funny therefore you're mafia. It's a lot more...I don't want to say emotion based because that's not right. It's just a lot less logical and reason based and that's where I think you're floundering. You're too used to mafia being a puzzle to solve rather than a guessing game like it really used to be.

 

1) I don't play SMC mafia. Day lynches based on votes forces people to act or inact, take positions, make votes, push narratives, and maybe most importantly deal with momentum and pressure (and interact with others around pressure) It's content, content that can reveal an agenda. What meaningful content are we producing here really? What pressure has anyone really faced (besides Jif overreacting to some pressure)

2) I have never played mafia IRL. However, I do know that playing face to face is a hell of a lot different when it comes to discerning honesty than on a message board. It's called the 7-38-55% rule, what you say matters a lot less then how you say it. Which is why we need game relevant content and why I can't stand inactivity or drive by voters.

If we are not going to go with the king then ok, lets let the king choose 3 candidates and we consolidate around them and he kills the leader? Lets just hope it's not 3 townies. I dunno i'm open to ideas but I don't think we achieved donkey sh*t the first 2 days

[GATA]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

The constant questioning seems to be working in scum favor. There’s false votes and false reasoning and encouraging more bad reasoning based on votes that don’t matter. The two Kings so far have emphasized that plurality is worthless and for the chaos that AVM brings he also allowed Drums to try and bring up a crap case against me. More bad Info. 

Im leaning scum on Gata because she is further encouraging that bad anti-town discourse. 

Plurality is not worthless we analyze votes this is mafia 101 . 
where is the misleading? They can obviously choose to do what they want but town should voice opinions . That isn’t rocket science 

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, GATA said:

Plurality is not worthless we analyze votes this is mafia 101 . 
where is the misleading? They can obviously choose to do what they want but town should voice opinions . That isn’t rocket science 

In a regular game you’re right. But twice it didn’t work out and twice town lost. Even worse if the kingmaker is killed there’s a negative on those that chose to let the game play out differently than if the votes actually counted. 
Encouraging answers and focusing on them when there is no result isn’t helping town. A methodical approach of killing the last king would be the town way of doing things. Systematic and efficient with actual info rather than “I do or don’t like your response” 

[GATA]

On 3/23/2020 at 4:04 PM, Leelou said:

It can turn into a normal game if the kingmaker is killed, so why do you not want to play this as normal as possible? 

^ ahem 
esp when we have ppl suggesting we lynch kingmaker 

On 3/23/2020 at 4:05 PM, Leelou said:

Am I in the freaking twilight zone here? 

I feel this 

On 3/23/2020 at 4:06 PM, Nolder said:

Done.

Because it's not. When/if it changes I'd change my approach with it.

But if everyone plays like this we get 0 info 

On 3/23/2020 at 4:07 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't f**kin know.  You've got a couple players playing paint-by-numbers Mafia, but that's acceptable because they're newer.  Then you've got veteran players fighting against basic Mafia principles for no reason.  

^^^^^^^ how are we not getting this 

On 3/23/2020 at 4:07 PM, Nolder said:

This is the sh*t I'm talking about. AVM is taking too long so everyone is going at each other for minor things.

It shouldn’t take long but I disagree with your quick lynch approach like you suggested because you could easily lynch town 

[GATA]

5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

In a regular game you’re right. But twice it didn’t work out and twice town lost. Even worse if the kingmaker is killed there’s a negative on those that chose to let the game play out differently than if the votes actually counted. 
Encouraging answers and focusing on them when there is no result isn’t helping town. A methodical approach of killing the last king would be the town way of doing things. Systematic and efficient with actual info rather than “I do or don’t like your response” 

Day 1 is one thing; Town usually mislynches and AVM is an anarchist 

from now till end game we have to evaluate and take our time so we don’t mislynch. 

We’ve lost 4 townies and doc just revealed.

No one has countered that yet so my guess is CTM decided to reveal and now scum knows who not to kill ?

Crush has good rationale when he’s not scum so let’s hope he takes his time and votes with Town 

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, GATA said:

Day 1 is one thing Town usually mislynchea occur and AVM is an anarchist 

from now till end game we have to evaluate and take our time so we don’t mislynch. 

We’ve lost 4 townies and doc just revealed.

No one has countered that yet so my guess is CTM decided to reveal and now scum knows who not to kill ?

Crush has good rationale when he’s not scum so let’s hope he takes his time and votes with Town 

No one countering on CTM is irrelevant for now because nothing conclusive can be drawn from that. You know that. That’s super myopic.

2 people And 1 mafia make real choices. The only one we can get to vet is the King. That’s the only focus that should matter and the only person who should die the round after a king lynch. 

[GATA]

39 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

No one countering on CTM is irrelevant for now because nothing conclusive can be drawn from that. You know that. That’s super myopic.

2 people And 1 mafia make real choices. The only one we can get to vet is the King. That’s the only focus that should matter and the only person who should die the round after a king lynch. 

Alright so how would you go about it.

say I’m the king right now but I mislynch. Should I get lynched immediately? 
 

[CTM]

1 hour ago, GATA said:

No one has countered that yet so my guess is CTM decided to reveal and now scum knows who not to kill ?

It's a wifom now. I know scum will think that so maybe I will protect someone else thinking I'm safe? Or maybe I wont. 

I just tried to reread. It made my head hurt. 

 

[CTM]

 

1 hour ago, GATA said:

Plurality is not worthless we analyze votes this is mafia 101 . 

Plurality is kind of worthless when there is no consequence to it. 

For instance:

Kdels was the vote leader in last VC (4 hours before kingmaker killed) but nowhere near lynch range. Scum can be parked anywhere here as there is no pressure anywhere

Avm narrowed to kdels and drums i think, and there was some consolidation attempt (no VC though so can't say who went where without doing VC's and after last game.. nah)

At which point AVM killed Barry? 

On the off chance one of kdels or drums is scum then maybe there was some movement to save but who would know without lynching one of them

At this point kdels would be the most informative lynch i guess. 

Could also go AVM for going rogue

Or jif/nyn for giving me Heebie-jeebies,

or nolder for being nolder

  

On 3/23/2020 at 4:37 PM, Verbal said:

Fake Vote Count

Kdels (4) - Drums, 80, GATA, Leelou

GATA (2) – Greece, Crusher

JiF (2) – CTM, Barry

80 (1) – Nyn

Greece (1) – Jvill

Nyn (1) - Stark

Leelou (1) - Kdels

CTM (1) - Nolder

 

[Nolder]

5 hours ago, CTM said:

 

1) I don't play SMC mafia. Day lynches based on votes forces people to act or inact, take positions, make votes, push narratives, and maybe most importantly deal with momentum and pressure (and interact with others around pressure) It's content, content that can reveal an agenda. What meaningful content are we producing here really? What pressure has anyone really faced (besides Jif overreacting to some pressure)

Regardless you, like others, want the comfort of votes to analyze. You're trying to look at it like a puzzle to solve still and that's why you want votes and narratives and whatnot. I'm not saying that's like wrong of you or whatever I'm just saying...look let me give you a sports metaphor maybe that's more your speed. It's like Michael Jordan playing baseball. Ok dude is an athlete sure he's ok. But he's out of his element. He belongs in the NBA it's his domain. You are MJ trying to make baseball more like basketball. You're going so far as to suggest lynching a townie so you can play basketball. And again I get it, that's more your domain. But let's just play some baseball. We'll get back to basketball soon enough.

5 hours ago, CTM said:

2) I have never played mafia IRL. However, I do know that playing face to face is a hell of a lot different when it comes to discerning honesty than on a message board. It's called the 7-38-55% rule, what you say matters a lot less then how you say it. Which is why we need game relevant content and why I can't stand inactivity or drive by voters.

You're still thinking too...idk...high brained? There's a term for this I just don't know it. IRL mafia isn't like world series of poker or w/e. It's more like a bunch of dorks giggling at each other and saying stupid sh*t. Normally you'd be right and I'm sure body language could come into play. How good are you at accurately reading body language though? You work for the CIA bro? I mean come on.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't have content I'm just saying you're putting too much emphasis on voting and traditional mafia queues.

 

5 hours ago, CTM said:

If we are not going to go with the king then ok, lets let the king choose 3 candidates and we consolidate around them and he kills the leader? Lets just hope it's not 3 townies. I dunno i'm open to ideas but I don't think we achieved donkey sh*t the first 2 days

Well the king will do what the king wants and IMHO that's part of the fun of the setup but I agree the first two days were crap. I think maybe you're taking this setup more seriously than it deserves. Like...you want to play some professional esports call of duty but this is just mario party bro. Chill out.

[Nolder]

4 hours ago, GATA said:

It shouldn’t take long but I disagree with your quick lynch approach like you suggested because you could easily lynch town 

I was being impatient there. I admit it.

[Nolder]

4 hours ago, GATA said:

But if everyone plays like this we get 0 info 

We've been voting for two days, what info do we have now?

 

Exactly.

 

This isn't Mafia, it's Kingmaker.

You guys need to stop treating it like it's Mafia or we will definitely lose.

[Nolder]

3 hours ago, CTM said:

or nolder for being nolder

I'm the only one playing the setup the way it's supposed to be played, even if I'm playing badly. But sure.

[Leelou]

I still think kdels should be lynched. 

[Leelou]

And I’m not touching any of this nonsense from Nolder and CTM/Stark. 
 

 

[Leelou]

Stark can be added to the to lynch pile though. 

[greece666]

12 hours ago, GATA said:

@Drums @AVM @Nolder @JiF @greece666 @Stark

yes? you got something to share with us amorcito?

[JustInFudge]

Advocating to kill the Kingmaker, a town "power role" on D4 is moronic.  Seriously.  

How about we do this right this time.  Let the King give his top 3, we debate it, he chooses, explains why and if he pulls an AVM, we kill him tomorrow. 

[GATA]

27 minutes ago, greece666 said:

yes? you got something to share with us amorcito?

So you believe I’m a chick now or are you into male robots? 

i think I’d like to hear your thoughts now on all the players alive

[CTM]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Advocating to kill the Kingmaker, a town "power role" on D4 is moronic.  Seriously.  

It's a vettable role but its anti town.

In 2 days we could be at lylo and king could end up being scum because the kingmaker is just guessing 

[CTM]

8 minutes ago, GATA said:

So you believe I’m a chick now or are you into male robots? 

Welp, add this to the growing lists of sentences I never imagined I'd read 

[Verbal]

3 hours ago, Nolder said:

It's more like a bunch of dorks giggling at each other and saying stupid sh*t.

You just summed up every comic convention in the history of ever.

[Verbal]

Fake Vote Count

CTM (1) - 80

Nolder (1) - GATA

[GATA]

1 minute ago, Verbal said:

You just summed up every comic convention in the history of ever.

Lol this is me