AFC East Pecking Order, 2020 Opening Day

[k-met57]

15 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Okay, I take it back, you got me.  Josh Allen and John Elway are the same talent level and should continue to be compared to each other.   Pretty much the same guy. 

Yeah except for the fact that they play almost a completely different game ?

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

Yeah except for the fact that they play almost a completely different game ?

Allen stinks. Will have a short career as he’s soon to get a very serious injury.

He’s incredibly inaccurate and is a look to run as the first sign of distress type player.  They just don’t last. 

Any good defense will know how to shut him down.  He’s NOT even CLOSE to John Elway, not even in the same ball park, not even on the same planet from a talent level perspective...anyone saying otherwise is just being silly.  

In fact, I can’t even believe I’m getting sucked into this nonsense.

[Testaverde98]

1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

please get off your soapbox until you can make a legit argument. I love fans who state things as a matter of fact...when it isn’t.

Favre and Elway played in a completely different era, and even then Favre had a higher completion percentage then Allen. Newton has had 1 great year, largely hasn’t won anything, and is about to be unemployed at 30.

I’ve followed Allen since Wyoming, in fact for 2 years leading up to the draft. He has never been and will never be an accurate passer. You can make the “athlete” argument, but i would argue he isn’t enough of an “athlete” to overcome the fact that he simply isn’t good enough as a passer...and those guys don't last anyways due to injuries.

Give me another modern ERA QB who has sustained success passing below 60%. Ill wait.

Eli manning 

 

Can you explain " a different era "

 

QBs now have much shorter route concepts resulting in a higher comp%

 

This has nothing to do with accuracy 

Look I get it. I'm pissed off maccagnan didn't do what the bills did for Allen and yes I'd still rather have darnold but jesus christ you're either extremely insecure about darnold or just going off pff/ ESPN narrative instead of just being real.

 

And cam newton was great  but injuries derailed him. Yes he had more than one 1 GREAT season lol. He was mvp. Thts not good. Thts awesome 

 

Try again. 

[JetsFanatic]

14 hours ago, Testaverde98 said:

Buffalo if you're being intellectually honest is the favorite by far imho.

There roster at every level is loaded. Yes there qb is extremely talented and the real deal...

Buffalo is the new Cleveland.

[Testaverde98]

Just now, JetsFanatic said:

Buffalo is the new Cleveland.

Except their qb is better and their coaches are better 

The oline is better 

Oh so is the defense...

 

 

[Testaverde98]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Allen stinks. Will have a short career as he’s soon to get a very serious injury.

He’s incredibly inaccurate and is a look to run as the first sign of distress type player.  They just don’t last. 

Any good defense will know how to shut him down.  He’s NOT even CLOSE to John Elway, not even in the same ball park, not even on the same planet from a talent level perspective...anyone saying otherwise is just being silly.  

In fact, I can’t even believe I’m getting sucked into this nonsense.

Do you know who had the highest qb rating and conversion rate on 3rd and 8 or longer ?

 

A massive indicator of high end qb competency 

[Testaverde98]

4 minutes ago, Testaverde98 said:

Do you know who had the highest qb rating and conversion rate on 3rd and 8 or longer ?

 

A massive indicator of high end qb competency 

 

 

 

[Testaverde98]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Allen stinks. Will have a short career as he’s soon to get a very serious injury.

He’s incredibly inaccurate and is a look to run as the first sign of distress type player.  They just don’t last. 

Any good defense will know how to shut him down.  He’s NOT even CLOSE to John Elway, not even in the same ball park, not even on the same planet from a talent level perspective...anyone saying otherwise is just being silly.  

In fact, I can’t even believe I’m getting sucked into this nonsense.

I gave you facts on the Elway comparison 

You got in your feelings 

Others have made it 

Mel kiper had him #1 overall 

It's not Josh Allen's fault maccagnan is a moron 

[Testaverde98]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

Allen stinks. Will have a short career as he’s soon to get a very serious injury.

He’s incredibly inaccurate and is a look to run as the first sign of distress type player.  They just don’t last. 

Any good defense will know how to shut him down.  He’s NOT even CLOSE to John Elway, not even in the same ball park, not even on the same planet from a talent level perspective...anyone saying otherwise is just being silly.  

In fact, I can’t even believe I’m getting sucked into this nonsense.

You're getting sucked into it because us jets fans like darnold but at the same time worried it's not going to work out

 

I love the jets but I'm a realist.

Adam gase really really worries me. Because of this I can see a Marino Kelly analogy where Marino was better but Kelly had more success 

Get out of your delusion.  Allen is the real deal man. It's ok. Dont cry

[Gibby]

I’ll reserve judgment until 

1) we know there will even be a season.

2) we see what the opening day roster looks like.

[k-met57]

3 hours ago, Testaverde98 said:

Eli manning 

 

Can you explain " a different era "

 

QBs now have much shorter route concepts resulting in a higher comp%

 

This has nothing to do with accuracy 

Look I get it. I'm pissed off maccagnan didn't do what the bills did for Allen and yes I'd still rather have darnold but jesus christ you're either extremely insecure about darnold or just going off pff/ ESPN narrative instead of just being real.

 

And cam newton was great  but injuries derailed him. Yes he had more than one 1 GREAT season lol. He was mvp. Thts not good. Thts awesome 

 

Try again. 

i cant even start to unpack this garbage. before i even look at Mannings actual completion numbers, to say he had "sustained success" is idiotic. the guy is a .500 career QB with two amazing runs in the post season. you must live in California, because living in NY i know exactly how wildly inconsistent he has been throughout this career.

are you serious with explain a different era? if u dont understand the difference between Elways numbers in 80's and comparable numbers from 2019 we have nothing to discuss. carry on trolling elsewhere.

[rangerous]

16 hours ago, SAR I said:

Thank you for the well-wishes; same back to you and yours.

The division isn't going to be tough for us.  If watching the best QB in our division up close for the last 20 years has taught us anything, it's that elite quarterback play is the difference maker.  No, Darnold is not Brady.  But he doesn't need to be because the Bills, Pats, and Fins aren't the '85 Bears or '89 Niners.  It's a pedestrian division, and I'll take my chances with Sam Darnold and Gregg Williams over anything else anyone can throw at us.

It's going to be an annoying 6 months of "Here come the Bills!" hype and "Patriots aren't done!" narratives.  Ignore it all.  The Jets are the best team in the AFC East.

SAR I

you still have to figure the bills to be the favorite in the division.  they made the payoffs and have a lot of good players.  of course the bills have been known to come out hot and then go into a swoon for quite a few seasons.  as for the other teams,  the patsies have to be the most interesting because they lost their on field leader.  i guess we'll find out pretty quick if it's brady of the bellichicken.  doltfins?  no qb or starting a rookie.  not much hope there but you gotts like the way flores kept the team together after such a bad start.  jets?  they're getting the tools.  a little luck and they could make it very interesting.

[rangerous]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Wait. Time out. 
 

Did you seriously just compare Josh Allen to John Elway? 
 

they're both big strong guys who shed tacklers.  they both run very well.  they both can throw the ball through a brick wall.  they are both inaccurate.  elllway was a smarter player but as far as physical ability they can easily be compared.

[UnknownJetFan]

On 3/21/2020 at 1:20 PM, JetsLife said:

Seems everybody is on Buffalo's jock, Pats are a way behind them, Miami is rising fast, Jets have Darnold so they have a shot.

The division does seem as wide open as it's been in a long time. I could see easily any team winning the division. As for my favorite: heart will always say the Jets are winning it all every year. My head, one thing I haven't heard those semi anointing the Josh Allen-led Bills over the rest of divison mention - and it brings me no joy saying it:

Umm, there's a certain Belicheat aka arguably the GOAT (cheating) head coach still running things in New England. Who went 11-5 without Brady in 2008, something like 4-0 when Brady was suspended for Deflategate. Who will size up the remaining veteran QB market, add a Newton, Dalton or some such at a highly affordable rate, and perhaps have a decent if not great QB situation this season be it the vet or Stidham. Who since 2000 except for like two seasons has always had his team either winning the AFC East, in the playoffs, AFC title games and/or Super Bowls. Sure Brady was the key common player denominator throughout, but it was only in 2007 and after the Pats became the Brady-led Pats - before that his stats weren't that special, and they won as much with great complimentary team football, including at times a stifling defense. It was the Pats secondary's annual highly successful mugging of WRs and receivers (particularly in the playoffs) that was one reason the NFL changed the rules - to this current flag football era where DBs can barely lay a finger on receivers past five yards.

Until someone actually dethrones New England this season and on a regular basis, to me they are still the team to beat unfortunately. Annoyingly Belichick is that good even if my misbegotten means sometimes.

Seems every other year people write off the Pats when they lose a ton of talent in free agency, or hit a rough patch in the season. And yet every year they've firmly been in within the top 3 of the AFC and nearly always top of the division. Of course that's been with Brady at the helm. And certainly losing Brady = an offseason setback unlike the Pats have experienced under Belichick. But Belichick's NE history pretty much dictates that between now and opening day, he'll be fielding a team favored by plenty of wise, chastened NFL minds to win the division yet again, Brady or not. Not least despite free agent losses, no doubt the defensive mastermind that Belichick is will have his 2020 defense humming. A good defense still remains a major equalizer.

 

 

Yes, BB will want badly to prove he can do it without Brady, but when he did well without Brady due to injury/suspension it was a little different since playing well when you know the great QB you have will eventually be back is possibly different than when that QB is never coming back.

[UnknownJetFan]

19 hours ago, Testaverde98 said:

Buffalo if you're being intellectually honest is the favorite by far imho.

There roster at every level is loaded. Yes there qb is extremely talented and the real deal...

Not sure I would say Allen is extremely talented. He is good at running and sometimes at passing, but is also wreckless when running and certain plays like the crazy lateral he threw in Houstan in the playoffs, plus his accuracy is inconsistent to say the least.

[CurtMart]

19 hours ago, Testaverde98 said:

11-5 with a 16-0 roster. Outside tht he had 1 winning season in 5 yrs at Cleveland and a losing season with the 2000 pats/ Bledsoe  ... yes it matters

SMH. 

[CurtMart]

19 hours ago, SAR I said:

No Brady magic, no Patriots mystique.

Yankees without the Core Four.  Dolphins without Marino.  Bills without Kelly.  Colts without Manning. 

We saw a sneak peak of this last season-  after Thanksgiving, the Patriots went 2-4.  That's what the Patriots are without Brady.

SAR I

They still won the division. So, like I said, it’s still Bill’s division until someone can prove he was just a passenger and not the driver. 

[Jethead]

The door is open. The Jets don't even have the pressure of being the favorites. I'm on the SAR bandwagon!

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, Jethead said:

The door is open. The Jets don't even have the pressure of being the favorites. I'm on the SAR bandwagon!

“Tickets please!”

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, CurtMart said:

They still won the division. So, like I said, it’s still Bill’s division until someone can prove he was just a passenger and not the driver. 

The Pats won the division because Brady is strong for the first 8 games of a season and weakens terribly over the course of the last 8.  It’s what old men do. They break down.  

So the Pats games after Thanksgiving are a very good barometer of what they look like with a mediocre quarterback.  And they were 2-4. 

SAR I