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Why do many jets fans act so insecure about darnold vs Allen

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Josh Allen isn't as bad people here want him to be.

Going into his rookie season, Josh Allen had the 2nd worst OL, the Worst WR group in the league led by UDFA Robert Foster and Zay Jones. His running backs also averaged about 3.2 yards per carry. He might have had the worst offensive personnel in the last decade during his rookie year. Despite all this, he still showed flashes and completely took over some games.

9/10 starters on the 2018 Bills roster are out the league or backups on the roster bubble right now. The lone exception is Dion Dawkins the BIlls staring LT. That's how bad it was.

In 2019, his O-line was average to below average with several upgrades to his WRs including John Brown and Cole Beasley, who are good but not special. WR was still a weakness on this roster.

Despite all this, Josh Allen was still 6th in total TDs even though he basically sat out week 17.

 

Here is the truth......... Josh Allen averages more TDs per game and less turnovers per game than Sam Darnold. This was true in both his rookie year and sophomore year. 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He was 11-5 in his first full NFL season.

29 of 49, 235 yards, 1-1

Horrible?  

 

Josh Allen was 10-6 his first full NFL season (He started but sat most of week 17)

Josh Allen went 24/46 had 372 Yards 1-1, in his first playoff game.

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21 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Thank you for waiting for that ONE random stat of no consequence. 

For your viewing pleasure, I present facts...

Darnold 512 for 855 with 59.9% completion rate. 5889 yards with 36 TDs to 28 Ints/5 fumbles (33 turnovers) Longest pass each season of 76 and 92 yards with 7 yards per pass attempt. 63 sacks. 

Allen 449 for 781 with 56% completion rate.  5180 yards with 30 TDs to 21 Ints/22 fumbles (43 turnovers) Longest pass each season of 75 and 53 with 6.5 yards per pass attempt. 66 sacks.

Darnold was better in

Completed passes, Yards, TDs, Less total turnovers, Longer passes, Yards per completed pass, Taking less sacks. 

Allen was better in 

Less Interceptions.

And to twist the knife in your ribs even more, Darnold did all that in 2 less career games and behind the statistically worst line in the NFL. 

So what did we learn here? Darnold is better than Allen in every major QB category that matters. 

Tell your Bills buddies you failed at your mission. 

LOL, you left out 17 TDs for Josh Allen and all his rushing yards.

This is false unless you literally take away all of Josh's running abilities.

 

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21 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

All while Allen has had better teams, more talent around him 

good thing those numbers are wrong.

It's missing 17 TDs for Allen and over 1k yards.

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10 minutes ago, JTJet said:

And was the reason they got booted from the playoffs both years.

He only played in 1 playoff game..........

Meanwhile Darnold did worse vs the Bills backups.

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14 minutes ago, JTJet said:

This is not true. 

Darnold has 33 career turnovers in 26 games 

Allen has 43 career turnovers in 28 games. 

The TDs are only when factoring in rushing TDs, something that does not hold up for QBs career wise. 

Dont state something as fact unless you apply context. 

Bro, stop making things up. Anybody can google this.

Josh Allen has 27 career turnovers.

 

 

How can you constantly be so wrong? Even your number for Darnold is wrong by whatever metric you are using.

 

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9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

As someone has already pointed out, your "truth" is statistically incorrect.

That guy is flat out wrong. You can pull up the stats yourself.

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7 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Josh Allen has never thrown for 300 yards in a game.  Stop manipulating his rushing and passing numbers to fit your narrative.

Total yards. 

I never indicated it was passing yards.

Yards are Yards anyway.

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7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Get back to me when Allen takes over a game with his arm, passing the ball down field.  

Get back to me when his arm is the best part of his game.  

Get back to me when he becomes more than a runner who dinks and dunks like a bigger version of Tyrod Taylor.

Get back to me when he manages to pass the ball for 300 yards or more.

1. Taking over a game with his arm.......... He already has. 

2. He was drafted for his arm..... Nobody excepted him to be this good of a rusher.

3. LOL Josh Allen Dink and Dunk? His average depth of target was 1st his rookie year and top 10 in his 2nd year.

4. Yards are yards. Allen has more 300 total yard games than Darnold.

But let me know when........

Darnold has a winning record in the NFL

Darnold makes the playoffs

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13 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

He has 21 total INTs and 22 total fumbles.  43 turnovers.

You want to include total yards and rushing yards to inflate his numbers, but you don't want to include turnovers because it hurts your argument.

Lmfao, GTFO and go back to your Bills forums.

 

Lol at you using fumbles, instead of fumbles lost.

If you are using that metric, it means your numbers on Darnold are wrong and he has 44 fumbles.

Lol these clowns will agree with you but you are dead wrong and keep on cherry picking stats.

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13 minutes ago, JTJet said:

I did correct my one stat though. Allen has 22 total fumbles but recovered 6. So technically 37 total turnovers. 

Doesnt change the fact that he Fumbles far more though lol. 

That is still wrong. lmao

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3 minutes ago, TNJet said:

Lol yeah, with his rushing yards added in. Adam Gase holds back our offense. Anyone with a football IQ saw this last season. Plus a shytty oline.

Lol the same was true in 2018 before you had Gase and Allen had the worst offense in the NFL.

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Just want to say this. I'm not usually this combative.

But I'm bored during the quarantine and this was a good way to waste time. So for the sake of drama.....

Darnold is trash.

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2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

@JTJet and I both retracted fumbles lost and he made a statement on that already.

You just came off of telling the both of us that it was easy to Google Josh Allen having 27 career turnovers and now you have the balls to tell us that we're "dead wrong".

Again, GTFO.

He had 13 turnovers in 2019 and 14 in 2018. 27 Turnovers is a fact.

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5 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Fumbles only matter if they're lost? Do you just not care about ball security at the QB position? Does Josh Allen's ill-advised lateral in the playoff game mean nothing to you because it wasn't a turnover? 

The only thing that matters is reality. He gave the ball to the other team 27 times. Much less than Darnold

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

With fewer attempts than Darnold

Again, that's not true.

If you are gunna include fumbles you have to include carries+ pass attempts.

Darnold has 931 pass attempts or rushes and he has fumbled or turned the ball over 44 times.

Allen has 971 pass attempts or rushes and he has fumbled or turned the ball over 43 times.

 

Even if you go by just passes...........

Darnold has a 4.2 interception rate. 36 ints on 855 attempts.

Allen has a 3.8 interception rate. 30 ints on 781 attempts.

 

Bro you are bad at math.

Please, stop quoting this guy, his numbers are just wrong.

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1 hour ago, JTJet said:

@Mogglez @hamat711

Directly from PFF 

Josh Allen's turnovers

21 + 22 = 43 - 6 recoveries = 37 times Allen coughed it up to the other team...

...but still doesnt change the fact that Allen did damage to his own team 43 times. Be it handing it to the other team, losing yardage, or killing a drive. 

By the same metric, Darnold only did this 41 times. Still proving our point. 

You should stay away from numbers because you are bad using the data given.

Fumbles - Fumbles Recovered (FR) doesnt equal total turnovers.

It could mean anybody else on the team recovered the ball. 

The stat you want is Fumbles lost. The sole purpose of that stat is to tell you when the ball went to the other team.

You are wasting your time with that PFF subscription cus it just confuses you. Fumbles lost is given by most sites for free lol.

 

Everything you post is wrong.

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5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I'm talking about INTs and pass attempts.

Simple comments to understand.  I wasn't talking about fumbles.

Stop spinning it around, you cant stick to one area of his game without digging into the need to spin to another area.  

INTs were brought up, I said on fewer attempts. Argue all you want

Youre bad at logic bro.  And the game bro.  Because bro, Darnold is the more talented player.  Plain and simple bro

Since you seem to have ignored half my post, i'll put it here again....

 

Even if you go by just passes...........

Darnold has a 4.2 interception rate. 36 ints on 855 attempts.

Allen has a 3.8 interception rate. 30 ints on 781 attempts

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16 minutes ago, JTJet said:

Brother you have a lot to learn about reading stats. 

This isnt a stat from an over Buffalo team page. PFF stats are directly related to the player and only the player. Quit making sh*t up to support your argument. 

There is no "it could mean" anything. It IS the stat directly related to the player. Josh Allen's stats do not list when other players recover his **** ups, theose stats are listed on their stat page. You can clearly read that on any stat website. 

I'm not the one bad at math, 

Interceptions + Fumbles - Fumbles recoveries = Total turnovers for an individual player. This is basic football math of which you clearly do not know and you are embarrassing yourself in front of the world right now. 

Every time you say everything I post is wrong is clearly debunked. Yet you havent listed any stats that actually support your argument other than stuff made up out of thin air.

Bro,.........Take a second and think about it. 

(Fumbles - Fumble Recoveries) is not the formula you want. It does not take into account a teammate recovering the ball. 

Man, there is literally a stat for what you want, and it's called fumbles lost.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

SPINBOY.

You want rushing yards and TDs in the mix

Until we're talking turnovers then fumbles shouldn't count

I talk INTs and you want to add rushes into INTs per attempt?  Because when hes running hes really passing and those runs should be added in to lower INTS per throw? 

And Allens INTs come in more games his team is leading, while Darnold is playing catchup where anyone who has a clue knows leads to more TOs.  And then there's yards per throw.  Allens picks come on pass plays called to try and cover up for his scatter arm and brain

Even you cant believe this stupid shlt

The stat i just gave you is only passing attempts...........

 

And to your second point..............

Josh Allen had 3 ints in the BIlls 6 losses, and all 3 of those interceptions came in the same game against NE last year. That's 0.5 ints in losses

Sam Darnold had 9 Ints in the Jets 6 losses last year. That's 1.5 ints in losses

 

It also helps when Allen leads the leagues in 4th quarter comebacks, and 4th quarter passer rating.

Do you just say random things?

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26 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Sam hits this pass 9/10 times. His ball placement is a good bit better. Sam can also throw outside the hashes a lot better

Sam is one of the worst deep ball throwers in the league.

 

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14 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

Ham... I don't think this is the hill you want to die on.

Just to remind you... you are an admitted Bills fan here who stated you are for decent conversation with a rival rather than sitting in a Bills fan echo chamber.... Instead you are currently singlehandedly fighting the fight for the troll who started this thread... he has retreated into his hole leaving you to be drowned in the collective piss of the boards. 

There is a difference between ability to hit the deep ball and and not having anybody to throw the deep ball to. We have had Robby pretending to be a number #1 WR and Crowder as our top options with no O line to provide the time necessary for a deep play to develop. I like both players but those two with no O line can only be so productive. 

I see problems with the team around Sam more than I see problems with Sam. 

I see problems with Allen more than I see problems with the team around Allen. 

I don't think Allen is abhorrent but I don't think he is anything more than a top 15-20 QB when he is fully polished. I have a vested interest in his failure as a Jets Fan, just as you do with Sam. Our bias is a matter of perspective and location.

Do you really think you will find concession here on the fact that we see an inherently flawed QB in Allen, when we as Jets fans see the Bills QB with a 56% completion and the body of work he has compiled to date with a pretty complete team and coaching or is this just your exercise in futility.

 

We can piss all day how long can you swim.

Nah ill fight this battle. 

1. I know Allen is bad at the deep ball and it's his biggest issue right now. He was decent in year 1 but regressed hard in year 2

2. I'm bored in quarantine so i'm acting a little reckless. . I admitted as much earlier in this thread and i'm really doing it for drama. We all need some excitement right now. You can see a clear spike in my activity once it started. I'll be much more tame when this thing ends.

3. Sam Darnold had the worst deep ball accuracy among all rookie QBs in 2018. He was still near bottom of the league in 2019. Allen at least had a decent year throwing the deep ball his rookie year so hopefully he is somewhere in between.

4. I would love to see Darnold do well on any team that isn't in the AFCE. While he is with the Jets, I hope you guys ruin/waste him. Yes we are both biased. 

5. Josh Allen had a better deep ball than Darnold in his rookie year throwing to Zay Jones and Robert Foster, so weapons aren't the only excuse for Darnold's deep ball. Robbie and Crowder are very similar to Brown and Beasley so why is that not also an excuse for Allen? Brown isn't really a WR 1 either.

6. I'm just here to provide another perspective as a divisional rival. Most of u guys are cool but some people here are using the wrong information to create narratives. 

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24 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Quarantine or not NOBODY wants drama. You are a Bills fan do course you like Allen more that’s perfectly fine.  But saying we are “insecure” is just absolutely false 

You got me confused with someone else. 

I would never attack an entire message board on a personal level or criticize the fans.

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