PFF took a dump on our OL rebuilding efforts

[Patriot Killa]

13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I do not think Fant was a panic move but I also take issue with having your LT on a prove it deal.  If he does not 'prove it' your QB is on injured reserve.  This guy has to at least be semi serviceable, from what I have seen of him in Seattle he was not serviceable.

Which leads me to believe it’s OT at #11 (or Pearl later on in the draft) and a training camp battle between Fant and the rookie OT to see who starts at LT.

[peekskill68]

Frank Pollack is going to have a lot of pressure on him this year to gel this unit...

[Butterfield]

Well, I can’t say I blame them.  The jets are taking a big risk, but they are risks at the right positions and at least they seem like they have a plan for once.  Targeting guys they think will fit the system.  
 

But again, its a risk.  Fant has a lot of talent but hasn’t been a regular starter, when he did start it was with mixed results and we just don’t know what he is.  Alex Lewis is a guy I like but I think he is limited to a low starter/high backup.  McGovern played great last year but was mixed at best prior.  Van Roten is another guy I like but is limited.  Its hard to believe he is 2 years older than Winters.  Another low starter/high backup type that seems better at pass blocking and hopefully is a better fit.  Andrews is probably just a backup, but at least seems versatile and again fits what they are looking for.  No sure things here and with new bodies everywhere, people need to have realistic expectations.  

[Lurker89]

1 hour ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

Seahawks OL was horrible last year, barely better than the Jets... and Fant couldn't start for them.

The Jets give him 30M and he's good because.... reasons.

 

Its a 1 year deal with team options for two years, if JDs gamble pays off he got a starting tackle at $10M a year for three years. . .. if the gamble doesn't pay off he cuts bait after one year. 

I don't like the deal because Fant is all potential, completely unproven but this is JD shooting his shot, it's his shot to shoot. I would have rather given the same deal to Beachum. I like (don't love) Beachum, obviously JD feels differently.

Acting like he gave Fant $30M guaranteed makes you look.... How you look.

[docdhc]

39 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I do not think Fant was a panic move but I also take issue with having your LT on a prove it deal.  If he does not 'prove it' your QB is on injured reserve.  This guy has to at least be semi serviceable, from what I have seen of him in Seattle he was not serviceable.

According to PFF last year Fant played 462 snaps and allowed 2 sacks.  Beachum played 805 snaps and gave up 4 sacks. Sam will be ok.  

[Jet Nut]

41 minutes ago, JiF said:

It started with;

I feel bad for a team trying to revamp their offensive line this season.  There just arent any options out there to get.

It ended with:

You can get a George Fant anywhere.

lol  PFF is a total joke

Only an idiot or someone looking for clicks would make the comment the way he did.  And worse thinking that the Jets haven't improved the starting and depth of the OL

[hamat711]

2 minutes ago, docdhc said:

According to PFF last year Fant played 462 snaps and allowed 2 sacks.  Beachum played 805 snaps and gave up 4 sacks. Sam will be ok.  

Fant was blocking for Wilson. If it wasn't for his mobility, Fant would have given up 3-4 sacks in just the Browns game last year.

Darnold isn't nearly as elusive as Wilson.

[Jetscode1]

32 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Why in the world are these guys more valued than this analyst???

 

Answer they don't know more football.....

So maybe it isn't the Titanic after all in the middle of the Off season!!

 

Good get.  I trust Baldy and his film breakdown more than others who are just trying to sensationalize the Jets and Douglas' attempt to get better.  Those saying its a panic move are silly.  Douglas is taking a chance on a guy with upside on a one-year prove it deal.  Makes sense to me.

[kdels62]

They’re not wrong. At all. Our starting OL right now is

Lt- Fant

LG- Van Roten

C - McGovern

RG- Winters

RT- Edoga

That’s bad... BUT it doesn’t account for what we will add in the draft and the interior is much better. Even if Winters is cut Lewis takes over LG and we still have Harrison and Andrews as backups which is better depth than we’ve had.

[TheClashFan]

I'm not a fan of the Fant signing if they did that to pencil him in at LT.  If he's here to compete with a #11 pick and Edoga for the two starting tackle positions, that's fine.

JD's OL signings look like a series of "hold the fort" or depth moves, with McGovern being the exception. If that's what he's done, and he still plans to draft two OL in the first three rounds/four picks, that's a sound plan.

But if he thinks he's "fixed" the OL already and drafts elsewhere, a la Mike Macc, then he's a fool. I really hope he drafts an OT with either the #11 pick or the 2nd rounder (if he goes WR first), at the latest.

[Daddy Wang Doodle]

The Jets line is still bad until further notice, but these guys crapping on moves attempting to remedy a horrible hand that was dealt is nothing more than click bait

[Barry McCockinner]

20 minutes ago, docdhc said:

According to PFF last year Fant played 462 snaps and allowed 2 sacks.  Beachum played 805 snaps and gave up 4 sacks. Sam will be ok.  

 

17 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

Fant was blocking for Wilson. If it wasn't for his mobility, Fant would have given up 3-4 sacks in just the Browns game last year.

Darnold isn't nearly as elusive as Wilson.

I have no idea how good Fant will be for us but I think you also have to consider the difference in schemes. The Jets are reportedly looking to do some wide split o-line scheme that favors athleticism over size & power. Fant being a former basketball player & TE converted to T sounds like he might be an ideal fit.

I don't think pff is doing much of anything with scheme fits.

[Lurker89]

38 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I feel like the Jets OL looked a lot better when Alex Lewis and Tom Compton were playing guard. As was the case in Denver, I don’t think this offense needs maulers, they just need smart, agile guys who know where they’re supposed to go. Maccagnan prioritized idiots across the board and, obviously, Gase wants the opposite. That said, I’d still like to see Beachum brought back on the cheap. I don’t trust Edoga at all, and I think Fant is a coin flip to not be a liability. 

I really don't understand why we didn't just bring Beachum back to have an actual floor at the position. I think JD wants to make a point about being right on Fant, but some insurance would be nice. We'll see if it pans out. 

[RobR]

44 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Why in the world are these guys more valued than this analyst???

 

Answer they don't know more football.....

So maybe it isn't the Titanic after all in the middle of the Off season!!

 

Just because PFF sucks doesn't mean that Baldinger is good. Baldinger is horrible at these things.

[section314]

2 minutes ago, RobR said:

Just because PFF sucks doesn't mean that Baldinger is good. Baldinger is horrible at these things.

I remember last year's draft he was doing cartwheels when we drafted Wesco.

[New York Mick]

2 hours ago, Jethead said:

All hat no cattle.

What the **** does that mean?

[Patriot Killa]

18 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

Fant was blocking for Wilson. If it wasn't for his mobility, Fant would have given up 3-4 sacks in just the Browns game last year.

Darnold isn't nearly as elusive as Wilson.

Darnold threw for a league high 10 touchdown passes under pressure last year.

he’s elusive enough. Wilson doesn’t take off like Lamar Jackson does. He extends plays outside of the pocket and so does Darnold. You don’t have to be elusive to have the playing style of Wilson or Darnold. They’re play extenders.

[RobR]

3 minutes ago, section314 said:

I remember last year's draft he was doing cartwheels when we drafted Wesco.

And Polite, and QW. All Baldinger does is blow smoke up peoples asses because he's never critical of a player, nothing but fluff pieces.

[Greensleeves]

1 hour ago, freestater said:

Whether or not our o-line reset works will still hinge on #11. If we land one of the top tackles (Thomas, god willing) ? then this line can be stout. LG play/mentoring will be key. Not sure who is supposed to start there, but keeping the rookie supported on the left side keeps Sam upright. I'd still like one more G/C by the end of day 2, but wouldn't be surprised nor disappointed if they doubled down at T. 

I disagree. JD probably has a few OT targeted that fit Gase's system. Thomas seemingly does not from what I'm reading. He could be had in the 2nd round too.

[Mogglez]

LMFAO, our new lineman are kinda nasty.  Kudos for them adding themselves to the long list of people (players included) that critique PFF.

[jeremy2020]

2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

I have no idea why these goofs have become considered the football messiahs of evaluating players over the last 7-8 years.

It's pretty simple. Clickbait. They post stuff like this where there's a nuance to the situation and then put out an extreme opinion then someone rushes to the internet forum to post this edgy take because it is guaranteed to get them a 3 page long thread. Clicks and popularity rise and their 'legitimacy' as an evaluator does with it.

[GREENBEAN]

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I mean, the line was so bad last year that if they can even get to average, which most of the additions are, it’s a start. They had to do something and there is still a whole draft. They didn’t get any of the top tier free agents, but we knew they wouldn’t for the most part. So JD moved to second and third tier guys who are slight upgrades and none of them really broke the bank. It still likely won’t be a good offensive line but it won’t be a terrible one either. 

I am seeing what JD is doing as building a unit. Not necessarily trying to compile a bunch of high priced singular entities. The guys we were after and lost would also have fit into this unit. Conklin and Glasgow are both similar, albeit potentially better, than the group we brought in.  but they fit if they didn't want more than JD was willing to pay. 

lewis, McGovern and Van Roten are all team first, Rah Rah, lunch pail types who don't get penalized often. Conklin has a few penalties but more were for unnecessary roughness than holding...which I actually like  

McGovern and Van Roten had one penalty between them and all three of them gave up 2 sacks last year combined. Fun fact: Even the depth guy Josh Andrews has never given up a sack or had a penalty in his brief career. All Smart players who are a little stronger in pass protection and don't hurt the team with dumb mistakes. There is a theme here.

Conversely Winters has had 33 penalties in his career  lol

Fant is an X factor, but I also think we won't be resting there. The draft will add to the unit. I think we may be surprised who Douglas goes after for the o line, but would expect them to be of the same mold of who we went after in FA. 

 

As an aside, That's why I don't get the Trent Williams idea. Such a great player in his prime but he's not that anymore and he's causing big problems for the skins and demanding $20 mil or so a year. That doesn't fit the idea of this unit to me. 

 

[GREENBEAN]

8 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I disagree. JD probably has a few OT targeted that fit Gase's system. Thomas seemingly does not from what I'm reading. He could be had in the 2nd round too.

Andrew Thomas will not make it to the 2nd rd.  Then again, I said that about Cody Ford last year so....   

[Jets723]

5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

LMFAO, our new lineman are kinda nasty.  Kudos for them adding themselves to the long list of people (players included) that critique PFF.

I get the feeling Fant wants to make a lot of people eat crow.  Look I admit I didn’t love the signing but I do feel he has potential and he seems to been given even more motivation to prove people wrong.  

[Jets723]

1 minute ago, GREENBEAN said:

I am seeing what JD is doing as building a unit. Not necessarily trying to compile a bunch of high priced singular entities. The guys we were after and lost would also have fit into this unit. Conklin and Glasgow are both similar, albeit potentially better, than the group we brought in.  but they fit if they didn't want more than JD was willing to pay. 

lewis, McGovern and Van Roten are all team first, Rah Rah, lunch pail types who don't get penalized often. Conklin has a few penalties but more were necessary roughness than holding...which I actually like   McGovern and Van Rotes had one penalty between them and all three of them gave up 2 sacks last year combined. Fun fact: Even the depth guy Josh Andrews has never given up a sack or had a penalty in his brief career. All Smart players who are a little stronger in pass protection and don't hurt the team with dumb mistakes. There is a theme here.

Conversely Winters has had 33 penalties in his career  lol

Fant is an X factor, but I also think we won't be resting there. The draft will add to the unit. I think we may be surprised who Douglas goes after for the o line, but would expect them to be of the same mold of who we went after in FA. 

 

As an aside, That's why I don't get the Trent Williams idea. Such a great player in his prime but he's not that anymore and he's causing big problems for the skins and demanding $20 mil or so a year. That doesn't fit the idea of this unit to me. 

 

Exactly.  It’s not about making big splashes on big FA it’s about building a line that fits.  Plus it’s obvious the draft is gonna focus on the OK with the higher picks.  Even if we get Lamb/Jeudy at 11.  Douglas comes from a OL background so I trust what he is doing 

[UnitedWhofans]

Is their only problem with Fant? Do they not realize that there are 5 men on an OL?

[GREENBEAN]

2 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Exactly.  It’s not about making big splashes on big FA it’s about building a line that fits.  Plus it’s obvious the draft is gonna focus on the OK with the higher picks.  Even if we get Lamb/Jeudy at 11.  Douglas comes from a OL background so I trust what he is doing 

yep. When we signed Fant I thought it reeked of desperation. But looking at the overall group so far it's pretty easy to see the similarities in the players. The fact that we are focusing on guys who don't get penalized and don't give up sacks often is amazing. 

I fully expect us to grab 2 or more o linemen in the draft too. But he is clearing the way for flexibility for sure. 

[peebag]

This is what happens when you pretty much ignore the Oline in the draft for over a decade - JD is doing the best he can with a crap hand.

He's going to have to nail the draft.

[Jets723]

1 minute ago, GREENBEAN said:

yep. When we signed Fant I thought it reeked of desperation. But looking at the overall group so far it's pretty easy to see the similarities in the players. The fact that we are focusing on guys who don't get penalized and don't give up sacks often is amazing. 

I fully expect us to grab 2 or more o linemen in the draft too. But he is clearing the way for flexibility for sure. 

I honestly think Fant might end up being a surprise.  I mean he had the potential and it’s clear that he isn’t happy with people sh*tting on him and is extra motivated .  Maybe all the criticism of The signing is a blessing in disguise lol

[Jets723]

1 minute ago, peebag said:

This is what happens when you pretty much ignore the Oline in the draft for over a decade - JD is doing the best he can with a crap hand.

He's going to have to nail the draft.

He is doing a pretty damn good job 

[GREENBEAN]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

I’d worry less about each individual grade than how those individuals mesh style wise.

Douglas seems to have an idea of the type of OL he wants to put together, and is signing guys who fit that mold.

Bottom line here is that we finally seem to have a GM who will address what has been a glaring problem for years.

Perfectly said. If you look at it as a whole, you can see the pattern. The theme. He's building a unit. 1 penalty and 2 sacks between the 4 guys we brought in in FA for the o line. That alone is incredible. 

[Jets723]

37 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

They’re not wrong. At all. Our starting OL right now is

Lt- Fant

LG- Van Roten

C - McGovern

RG- Winters

RT- Edoga

That’s bad... BUT it doesn’t account for what we will add in the draft and the interior is much better. Even if Winters is cut Lewis takes over LG and we still have Harrison and Andrews as backups which is better depth than we’ve had.

They are wrong is the sense that the offseason really just started.  We still have the rest of FA and the draft.  So yeah it basically bullsh*t they were spewing as usual lol. JD has done a real good job so far and will continue to build the OL.  

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

I do not think Fant was a panic move but I also take issue with having your LT on a prove it deal.  If he does not 'prove it' your QB is on injured reserve.  This guy has to at least be semi serviceable, from what I have seen of him in Seattle he was not serviceable.

Baldinger is saying the exact opposite. I tend to think he has more credibility than either you OR PFF. 

[BCJet]

2 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The day I take my football analysis from a Brit is the day I stop being a fan.

In all seriousness though, this group that has been assembled should not be viewed as world beaters to anyone.  Outside of McGovern, the rest are generally journeymen types who have been considered "ok" at best in previous stops. Also, I don't think it's reasonable to think they go from awful to awesome in 1 off season.  If they can go from awful to meh this off-season, then that's acceptable to me. 

This guy doesn't mention that different players fit different schemes better than others.  I'm not going to pretend I know if Seattle or Denver or Carolina run heavy zone schemes like Gase does, but if they don't, that can be a big difference.  According to PFF, Van Roten and McGovern are both good pass blockers, struggle in the run game.  Well if the majority of their reps are in a power gap scheme, as undersized OL, I would expect them to struggle more.

I've watched Iowa run the zone running game for 20 years now under Ferentz.  Probably better than most NFL teams execute it.  I can say with almost complete certainty the most key attributes for success are OL cohesion(synchronized movement), lateral quickness and burst and hand technique. Point of attack strength is far less important than say a Power Gap scheme like Wisconsin is known for.  That's not to say you can be a bunch of weaklings up front and survive, but it's not the #1 thing you look for.

Here is an excerpt I posted in a different thread about the Seattle scheme - not a fit for Fant's strengths.

Seattle’s ground game has also been more schematically diverse. Fired along with Bevell was offensive line coach Tom Cable and his strict outside zone running game. Hired with Schottenheimer was 63-year-old O-line coach Mike Solari, who has helped install a bevy of man-to-man run-blocking designs, misdirectional jets sweeps and traditional inside zone runs, with double-team blocks at the point of attack.

Carolina did run more zone concepts then man and Michael Nania posted some of VR's highlights and it seems like he does pretty well on the move and in space.  Carolina did pull him and have him lead some designed QB runs for Cam.

The other thing that is good about having lower priced players is that you can have better depth.  If we draft an OT at 11 (which undoubtedly should still be the plan) and take one other IOL in the 3-5th round range, we will have good depth at center with Harrison, OT with Egoda and Guard with a rookie or if Lewis is a backup.  You need 7 serviceable OL for a full season and we should have some good depth if we still use the draft as a focus on OL

[Mogglez]

27 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I get the feeling Fant wants to make a lot of people eat crow.  Look I admit I didn’t love the signing but I do feel he has potential and he seems to been given even more motivation to prove people wrong.  

Pretty much where I'm at now too.