RobR Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said: We will see if the OL is better than last year and if the talent exceeds what it did last year. I think that it will, you and your friends.. Heckle and Jeckle don't... Time will tell...... Not one of my posts had anything to do with the upgrades we made this year, it was only about these ratings services like PFF, which I said sucked. My only point was not to take Baldinger seriously because he loves everyone and is never truthful. Looking for one of his breakdowns to make you feel better as a fan about any player is a foolish endeavor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Wgas wgaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardedSavage Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 We got more athletic along the offensive line, brought in depth, and improved at least two positions (center, and whichever guard spot Van Roten plays). PFF are correct that Fant is a huge gamble and projecting him as an improvement over Beachum is a great leap of faith. I think we all acknowledge that signing as the “wait... what?” moment of the offseason for us. But their own analytics grade both McGovern and Van Roten well. Lewis is a jag, but we can move on in a year and after Thuney/Scherff didn’t hit the market and Glasgow signed somewhere else, we needed someone to play that position. Andrews is a depth player that fits the scheme. F*** defense in the draft this year. I hope JD drafts an irresponsible amount of o-lineman and WR’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hael Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said: We got more athletic along the offensive line, brought in depth, and improved at least two positions (center, and whichever guard spot Van Roten plays). PFF are correct that Fant is a huge gamble and projecting him as an improvement over Beachum is a great leap of faith. I think we all acknowledge that signing as the “wait... what?” moment of the offseason for us. They grade McGovern and Van Roten ok. McGovern is just slightly above average for a starter, Van Roten is a bit below average. Let's not kid ourselves, we have only one player that is better than average on our OL. So while this is a good deal better than the historically inept OL from last year (and there were a number of truly terrible OLs in the NFL last year) no one will ever mistake this for a good unit. If we have rookies that start, that might be even more problematic. When was the last time you saw a truly dominant rookie OL? It's like one every six or seven years or so across the whole NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyD822 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Joe D is taking a long term approach to the OL building. He's not dumb, he knows that the OL, usually, is built in the draft. In FA he's going after versatile, disciplined players that fit the scheme as stop gap options. They aren't building blocks but players that can hold the fort until he can properly rebuild the OL. Fant is athletic and a potential revelation if there coaches can harness his potential. His glorified 1 year contract pretty much reflects that. McGovern is young and good enough to be someone that can be a constant presence on the OL for the next 5ish years. Van Roten is a depth signing, that once again is a scheme fit with good game tape. I think we take 2-3 OL in the draft, personally. There are potential day one starters that will be available in rounds 1-3. I think Joe is doing a solid and sensible job so far in rebuilding the line. It was never going to be a quick fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop24 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 They aren’t really saying anything the majority of the experts arent already saying , hell even Brandon Thorn said the same thing and he literally studies Olinemen for a living. The group isn’t done being built . But Main thing here is how they gel together when it is done. Right now I can easily say the jets interior Line is much improved . But the OTs are very suspect . Fant, Edoga still have a lot to prove . That’s why I’m still on board for a 1st rd tackle . If not just sign Jason peters too a one year deal to play LT. And let Fant and Edoga battle it out at RT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 14 hours ago, Lurker89 said: Agreed, why not just give the same deal to Beachum. 10 mil per with team friendly options for the next two years. I would have been happy with that. Hoping for the best expecting the worst. Only time will tell. Cause beachem is never going to get better this kid is out new starter and has upside, solid pick up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Talk about killing the messenger. The NY JETS have earned every ounce of criticism, skepticism, and mockery that they receive. Don't take that away from them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said: Cause beachem is never going to get better this kid is out new starter and has upside, solid pick up Beachum is just terrible at run blocking, flat out awful! Just look at his build & you can tell he doesn't spend nearly enough time in the gym. Its why the Jags let him walk years ago. He's a decent pass blocker who solidified the line last year when he came back from injury. He needs to be upgraded & while Fant is still a work in progress, he's definitely better than Beachum. I don't think JD is done & don't be surprised if he pulls off a Trent Williams trade or brings in Peters as a stop gap. Peters is long in the tooth but he's way better than Beachum & would afford Sam that extra second he needs & wont be under a long term contract. With a LT move, JD can do whatever he wants at #11, take a LT if the guy he loves is there, if not attack any of our other needs at WR, CB, Edge, or trade back if a team falls in Love with Love. That's a possibility at #11, right outside of the top 10. The contracts he's given so far don't even add up to Conklins entire 2020 salary of 20 million! That's how you work free agency. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Joe Douglas' offensive line signings have plenty in common Tyler Calvaruso It looks like the days of splurging on skill position players and ignoring the offensive line in free agency are over at One Jets Drive. With Mike Maccagnan running the show, the Jets frequently broke the bank on big-name free agents like Darrelle Revis, Trumaine Johnson, C.J. Mosley and numerous others. Macccagnan all but ignored the offensive line. Any signings he did make usually struggled. Maccagnan and his front office staff relied mostly on the draft to address New York’s offensive line, but failed miserably at landing impact players more often than not. Only one week into his first free agency on the job, Joe Douglas has established that things are going to be different from now on. Five of Douglas’ nine signings have been offensive linemen. He has spent a combined $72.9 million to fix a unit that was arguably Gang Green’s worst last season. (Contract details have yet to become public for Greg Van Roten and Josh Andrews.) Not only has Douglas spent as much money to makeover an entire unit as Maccagnan would have on one player, but he has gone about it in a way that affords him a great deal of financial freedom. George Fant, Alex Lewis, Connor McGovern and Van Roten have all received three-year contracts. It remains to be seen exactly how Van Roten’s deal is structured and what exactly the length of Andrews’ deal, but Douglas’ three-year approach allows him to part ways with players on his new-look line if he does not like what he sees out of them in a way that will not hamstring New York’s salary cap down the road. Fant’s contract is essentially a one-year deal worth $8.9 million in guaranteed money. If he struggles in 2020, the Jets can cut him at no financial loss and go looking for a new starting tackle. Lewis is only getting $6 million in guaranteed money — a cheap deal for a player who figures to slot into the starting lineup at left guard. McGovern is getting the most guaranteed money out of the trio ($18 million), but that is not a number that will set the Jets back if they have no choice but to cut him at any point. What makes Douglas’ approach to his offensive line rebuild even more impressive is the kind of players he is targeting. Douglas could have gone out and thrown money at some of the bigger names on the market, but has stuck to his guns and handed out deals to players who fit what he wants out of his line. It’s not a coincidence that McGovern has been called for only two penalties over 1,526 snaps at center and Van Roten has been flagged only four times at left guard over 1,800 snaps. Douglas went after guys that could block without being called for holding every other play — a problem that cost the Jets dearly in 2019. Versatility has also been the name of the game for the four linemen Douglas has signed. Fant is athletic and can play either tackle position. Andrews, Lewis and Van Roten can play either guard position. McGovern is primarily a center but has experience playing both guard positions. This provides Adam Gase with a lot of ways to shuffle his line in the event of an injury to a starter or poor performance. Douglas hit free agency with the intention of fixing New York’s offensive line and it’s safe to say he has gone about it in the correct manner. Sam Darnold needs blockers that can keep him upright. Andrews, Fant, Lewis, McGovern and Van Roten all profile as players who are capable of accomplishing that with consistency. That’s certainly one heck of a way for Douglas to establish that he is up for the task of turning the Jets back into a contender. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker89 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said: Cause beachem is never going to get better this kid is out new starter and has upside, solid pick up Sounds good . .. to I'm just worried about the floor falling out on a gamble.... The usual Jets Fan PTSD talking like I said previously this JD shooting his shot. I'm glad his gamble is OL and think he is trying to make a point with Fant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Yeah I'm with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClashFan Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Yup, nearly all these signings, including the CB recently signed, are "hold the fort" guys. Only McGovern looks like a guy they are committed to for more than one year. So, JD, draft OL, starting with the #11 pick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Adding Van Roten, McGovern, Fant, Andrews and bringing back Lewis just to get the OL to average is perfectly fine with me. Joe Douglas had a house that was on fire. He's put it out. It still isn't pretty and needs some rebuilding but that will come in the Draft. The line is at least respectable now. He'll add two OLinemen in this Draft I believe, hopefully a very good OT in the first 2 rounds and then an OG somewhere between the 4th and 6th. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets723 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said: Adding Van Roten, McGovern, Fant, Andrews and bringing back Lewis just to get the OL to average is perfectly fine with me. Joe Douglas had a house that was on fire. He's put it out. It still isn't pretty and needs some rebuilding but that will come in the Draft. The line is at least respectable now. He'll add two OLinemen in this Draft I believe, hopefully a very good OT in the first 2 rounds and then an OG somewhere between the 4th and 6th. Agreed. The Fact that he has as least improved the OL a little bit before the draft even happens is a good sign. Is it great? No but anything is an improvement from the last couple years. I’m positive we will draft at least 2 OL with our first four picks. I guess it depends if one of the big 3 OL falls to us 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said: Adding Van Roten, McGovern, Fant, Andrews and bringing back Lewis just to get the OL to average is perfectly fine with me. Joe Douglas had a house that was on fire. He's put it out. It still isn't pretty and needs some rebuilding but that will come in the Draft. The line is at least respectable now. He'll add two OLinemen in this Draft I believe, hopefully a very good OT in the first 2 rounds and then an OG somewhere between the 4th and 6th. It's all about health which begets consistency. He'll definitely add a couple of guys in the draft + I don't think he's done yet. He's hiding in the weeds on these older LTs. He's got PLENTY of money still! He's just not over tipping. This is similar to my son & I when I took him out to eat once. He said Dad, you should always tip 20% (He's a bartender). I said son, I've been a sales rep for 35 years, I've spent thousands of dollars eating out. I frequent the same places, have my favorite bartenders I sit in front of & waitresses and waiters. Since I lived in NH the sales tax on meals was 8.25%. I always doubled the tax as a tip. I said, how often do you eat out? He said obviously not as often as you. I said, when you go out as often as I do, and contribute to the service economy as much as I do, you can tell me what to tip! I said did you see how Jason welcomed me when I sat at the bar? That's because I'm consistent! He knows my name. He knows how to say, would you like another drink? Knowing damn well he just made another 16.5% on it. Macc wasn't consistent. He was a binge eater, leaving a couple of huge tips every year. JD is like me, consistent. ?. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE BARON Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 On 3/22/2020 at 11:41 AM, Jets723 said: These guys are morons. I understand crapping on the Jets has just become commonplace but JD has actually done a good job with McGovern,Van Roten, resigning Alex Lewis. I know Fant wasnt a well liked move but I do think he brings a lot of potential despite the risk. Plus we possibly will be able to grab a bigtime OL with the 11th pick. Look I know I’m a positive fan but the constant bleakness fans or others have against the Jets is just silly at this point. I mean you would think we won 2 games last year with the way people talk about us lol I'm never one to be a Pollyanna where the Jets are concerned, but thus far JD has made the most of what he could do to help the o-line during this FA period. He added what was available and he didn't break the bank doing it. It shows that he is at least well aware of how important the offensive line is and he is taking measures to improve it... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, jetstream23 said: Adding Van Roten, McGovern, Fant, Andrews and bringing back Lewis just to get the OL to average is perfectly fine with me. Joe Douglas had a house that was on fire. He's put it out. It still isn't pretty and needs some rebuilding but that will come in the Draft. The line is at least respectable now. He'll add two OLinemen in this Draft I believe, hopefully a very good OT in the first 2 rounds and then an OG somewhere between the 4th and 6th. isn't it crazy to you that our GM was able to put out the fire, while all the other GM's were like what fire, we are fine. I mean I think we can expect more of this and if we get it Joe is going to have a long run here. I mean next year after the season if we have big need of whatever I think Joe will take this approach of getting players that can get us to average. it just feels good. It happens every year I buy in, but I am hopign this is real deal and signs of what is to come. I really think you are right abotu the draft too, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornJetsFan1983 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 hours ago, THE BARON said: I'm never one to be a Pollyanna where the Jets are concerned, but thus far JD has made the most of what he could do to help the o-line during this FA period. He added what was available and he didn't break the bank doing it. It shows that he is at least well aware of how important the offensive line is and he is taking measures to improve it... shows that is actaully knows what he is doing. ALl the contracks are short term deals that lets us get out if we need to. Fant who everone is complaining about is like 9 mil the first year then we can split. I dont care what everyone says I think he is the starter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 A deep dive into how George Fant could impact the Jets in 2020 Fant is one of many free agent additions that will help the offensive line By Bent When news broke of the Jets' first free agent signing last week, this was met with bewilderment by many Jets fans, especially when it was reported they were giving him a deal worth $10 million per year. Earlier this month, we identified George Fant as a possible bargain pick-up in free agency, but few expected him to command a contract of that size. Nevertheless, he was a player we felt could be a useful pickup, and the Jets obviously felt the same way to go to a number that high to secure his services. So let's review some of the things he brings to the table and what his role might be. Fant first arrived on the NFL scene in 2016 when he was forced into the starting lineup at left tackle for the Seattle Seahawks due to injuries. Having barely played any college football, the converted basketball player was understandably extremely raw, and at times, looked completely overmatched. Nevertheless, he flashed athleticism and enough potential that Seattle kept him in the role until the end of the season, and felt good about the prospect of developing him over the next few years. Unfortunately, Fant's progress was derailed when he tore his ACL in preseason in 2017. Forced to upgrade, the Seahawks traded for pro bowler Duane Brown. With former first-rounder Germain Ifedi already starting on the other side, this basically ensured Fant would be forced to come off the bench in 2018 and 2019. Seattle couldn't keep him off the field, though. In addition to starting six games at tackle as an injury replacement, including a postseason win over the Eagles, Fant also averaged about 15 snaps a game as a sixth lineman/tight end hybrid when he wasn't starting. Within that role, Fant established himself as something of a fan favorite, playing a versatile role with impressive run blocking performances that contributed to a Seattle running game that led the league in rushing in 2018 and placed fourth last year. It wasn't just as a run blocker that he displayed how far he had come since his rookie year, though. In pass protection, Fant's sack rate and pressure rate were both significantly lower over the past two years after he had given up eight sacks and one of the highest pressure rates in the league as a rookie. Fant has always had good feet and shown natural ability while mirroring in pass protection, but he showed specific improvement in his ability to re-anchor against a bull rush and to pick up stunts. Also, importantly, he was protecting Russell Wilson, so he often had to sustain his block for a long time while Wilson kept plays alive Heading into 2020, many expected the Seahawks to try and re-sign Fant so that he could take over at the right tackle position, but the Jets were obviously prepared to sign him to a larger-than-expected contract, for what is widely considered "starter money." So what could Fant's role be in 2020? According to Brian Costello from the New York Post, the Jets view Fant as a left tackle who can move to the right if needed. Currently, he would likely be penciled in on the left with last year's third-round pick Chuma Edoga -- who started games at both positions last year -- at right tackle. With the team widely expected to draft a tackle in the first round, the Jets have unlimited options. They can play the rookie on the right, groom him on the bench, or plug him in as the left tackle of the future from the outset. Fant's versatility should enable the Jets to fit the other pieces around that as he could play left tackle, right tackle, or even revert back into that blocking utility tight end role to add value while he serves as emergency cover in the swing tackle role. For someone who had literally never played the offensive tackle position before he signed for the Seahawks, Fant has definitely made solid progress since his rookie season. The Jets are obviously hoping that he's progressed to the point where he's ready to be a full-time starter and can hold up well in that role. Although it's only one game, the way he held his own at left tackle against Nick Bosa and the 49ers last year gives a tantalizing glimpse of his potential. If Fant can play like that on a consistent basis against players of Bosa's caliber then he could yet prove to be well worth the financial outlay. As unlikely as it may seem, perhaps he could even progress to the point where his contract starts to look like a bargain after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 On 3/22/2020 at 12:10 PM, Skeet Ulrich said: Seahawks OL was horrible last year, barely better than the Jets... and Fant couldn't start for them. The Jets give him 30M and he's good because.... reasons. We all understand the Fant move is a major question mark. But what fault can you find in the other moves? We added versatile interior linemen that were fairly significant upgrades over the likes of Winters and Harrison and grade out as good pass blockers. Isn't that what everyone wanted? Versatile IOL that can protect Darnold? What's the problem? Meanwhile I have yet to see Beachum get signed anywhere, which I think is noteworthy. You would think there'd be several teams out there who would have looked to sign a band-aid LT to a 1 or 2-year deal by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 On 3/22/2020 at 11:48 AM, Untouchable said: I have no idea why these goofs have become considered the football messiahs of evaluating players over the last 7-8 years. PFF can be useful on occasion, but waaaayyyy too many fans and media talking heads just look at a percentage next to a players name and either consider them gods or write them off as sh*t. QFT. I never understood how they (or anyone) could accurately grade every offensive lineman without knowing the blocking scheme or the playcall. Watching terrible Jets QBs over the years, Geno Smith could have 5 seconds and still take a sack. These lines are often bailed out by the skill positions. As for the Jets... what they are doing is very similar to what Buffalo did prior to the 2019 season. Collect a whole bunch of versatile tough vets (where you don't exactly know where they all fit, but they can all play multiple positions) and then draft Cody Ford who is a badass and all of a sudden it's a mid-tier with potential to be even better in the future. Ty Nsekhe is like our George Fant. Connor McGovern is like our Mitch Morse, etc. this tactic could take a few games to build cohesion but once they figure out a lineup they can be decent, maybe even good, depending on how our "Cody Ford" pick works out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFish Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 On 3/23/2020 at 1:06 AM, Hael said: They grade McGovern and Van Roten ok. McGovern is just slightly above average for a starter, Van Roten is a bit below average. Let's not kid ourselves, we have only one player that is better than average on our OL. So while this is a good deal better than the historically inept OL from last year (and there were a number of truly terrible OLs in the NFL last year) no one will ever mistake this for a good unit. If we have rookies that start, that might be even more problematic. When was the last time you saw a truly dominant rookie OL? It's like one every six or seven years or so across the whole NFL. Do you have a PFF membership? I would suspect both McGovern and Van Roten are ranked above the mean. I don’t have a membership to confirm though. But they color code their rankings. Yellow is average and light green is above average while Dark Green is high quality. Both McGovern and Van Roten are light green to almost yellow in the case of Van Rotten which suggest they view them as above average. So if this debate is going to center around PFF, this is how they view our OL Fant: Slightly below average Lewis: Below average McGovern: Above average Van Roten: Slightly above average Edoga: Below average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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