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Defense Wins Championships

The AFC East division is now wide open for the first time in 20 years: Bill Belichick is in trouble (will become exposed as a fraud).

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On 3/27/2020 at 8:57 AM, Jet Nut said:

Right, exposed?  As what?  A HC with only 6 SB wins in 9 SB appearances?

Yeah, that sucks.  

We should aspire to stink. Now that we've exposed the secret..let's get a mascot  

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On 3/27/2020 at 2:06 AM, Defense Wins Championships said:

I would like to tell an NFL Football story. An NFL story with deep roots featuring a time line; with hopes that one day my story will get published and/or within the hands of Bill Belichick himself (kidding). 

Throughout this post I will paint an image within the form of a picture not only verbally but also statistically speaking in regards to the NFL head coaching career of Bill Belichick while consting of nothing but actual circumstances surrounding Bill Belichick's fraudulent NFL coaching career both 'before and after' Tom Brady {with no lies. All facts. Nothing fabricated}. 

~ I'm 34 years old as of today (born in 1985).

~ I was only 24-25 years of age and living in Florida during our 2009-2010 runs under Rex Ryan (you all gave me the nickname of "stats" during those crazy exciting Jet years back then).

 

At 36 I experienced life transforming experiences and came to realize not to trust what I was thinking and reached out to others who were wiser when it came to making decisions that ultimately affect how I'd view my past, deal with the present and plan for the future.  Don't take to heart much what anyone says under the age of 40.  Get back to us in a few years.

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23 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Gase has a better record then BB does without Tom Brady.

14 games under .500 without the GOAT doing everything for him

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20 hours ago, y2k8 said:

I really don't see how his Browns record is relevant at this point.

More relevant is how the Patriots performed without Brady in the Brady era.

The year TB was injured in week one and out for the year, they went 11-5 with Matt Cassel (winning 10 games as a starter) and somehow missed the playoffs. They went 3-1 with Brissett and Garapolo started 2 game each when TB had the 4 game suspension.  

That's 14-6 right there.

It's wishful thinking to believe BB will revert to ancient history Cleveland form.  BB has obviously gotten better and better at what he does over time.  

The 2008 team Cassel was a starter on was absolutely loaded and went 18-1 the year before.  Hackenberg would have won games with that roster

 

Garropolo has shown himself to simply be a good player.

 

If Belichick goes 12-4 with Stidham/Hoyer I will gladly eat crow

 

 

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On 3/27/2020 at 8:57 AM, Jet Nut said:

Right, exposed?  As what?  A HC with only 6 SB wins in 9 SB appearances?

Yeah, that sucks.  

How many of those were without Brady?

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10 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

How many of those were without Brady?

Who cares?  I can do this with almost every multiple SB winning HC's.  How many did Walsh win without Montana? 

How many wouldn't he have won without Brady?  Want to prove he wouldn't have any or how many he wouldn't have won with someone else at QB?

No way to prove it. 

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

How many wouldn't he have won without Brady? 

Let’s find out

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1 hour ago, Wonderboy said:

Montana >Brady

Parcells>Belicheat

Parcells set this organization for success.  It was and has been the ownership interference. Hopefully with JD things will defer from our atrocious decisions made from our previous management. 

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As much as we may dislike BB, the guy is the GOAT HC (though, admittedly, who knows how much cheating was involved).  Someone else in this thread pointed out that a lot of HCs barely win anything with great QBs (e.g. Shula only made 1 SB with Marino and he didn't win it) while BB has won 6 (and appeared in 9) with Brady. 

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58 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Let’s find out

What does what his record with the 2020 and beyond Pats teams have to do with how his past 9 SB teams would have done without Brady?

Nothing.

 

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4 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Montana >Brady

I strongly disagree (Montana was once considered the greatest of All-Time, but not anymore thnx to #12). 

Tom Brady is 42 years old and is still playing great (Montana retired @ 38). 

Tom Brady over the past two seasons throughout his 40's (including the playoffs and 1 SB win)...

• 26-10 record (72.2%).                     

• 748/1183 (62.2%).                                     

• 8,412 passing yards.                                 

• 53 TD's/19 INT's

•QB Rating of 92.5.

(I'd give up my left nut just to see Sam Darnold ever put together a two year span as the one Brady's put together while over the age of 40).  

Brady's greatness lasted much longer than Montana's greatness did but Tom Brady (different era or not) has broken each and every statistical statistic known to mankind that Joe Montana had ever set himself. 

And everyone makes such a big deal over Montana's undefeated 4-0 SB record (while completely ignoring his 7 playoff loses @ the same time, as if he "never lost") but Tom Brady has been to 9 SB's and won 6 of them; Brady has more SB rings (6) than Montana does SB appearances (4). 

Not only that, but...

Joe Montana;

Career NFL statistics
Pass attempts: 5,391
Pass completions: 3,409
Percentage: 63.2
TDINT: 273–139
Passing yards: 40,551
Passer rating: 92.3

Compared to The Greatest of All-Time Greats...

Tom Brady: 

Career NFL statistics as of 2019
Passing attempts: 9,988
Passing completions: 6,377
Completion percentage: 63.8
TDINT: 541–179
Passing yards: 74,571
Passer rating: 97.0
   

In what world are we living in where Joe Montana had ever been better than Tom Brady? It's not even a discussion anymore...

If these statistics and individual accomplishments doesn't point out Brady's greatness once compared to Joe Montana's greatness; then I guess nothing ever will. 

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1 minute ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I strongly disagree (Montana was once considered the greatest of All-Time, but not anymore thnx to #12). 

Tom Brady is 42 years old and is still playing great (Montana retired @ 38). 

Tom Brady over the past two seasons throughout his 40's (including the playoffs and 1 SB win)...

• 26-10 record (72.2%).                     

• 748/1183 (62.2%).                                     

• 8,412 passing yards.                                 

• 53 TD's/19 INT's

•QB Rating of 92.5.

(I'd give up my left nut just to see Sam Darnold ever put together a two year span as the one Brady's put together while over the age of 40).  

Brady's greatness lasted much longer than Montana's greatness did but Tom Brady (different era or not) has broken each and every statistical statistic known to mankind that Joe Montana had ever set himself. 

And everyone makes such a big deal over Montana's undefeated 4-0 SB record (while completely ignoring his 7 playoff loses @ the same time, as if he "never lost") but Tom Brady has been to 9 SB's and won 6 of them; Brady has more SB rings (6) than Montana does SB appearances (4). 

Not only that, but...

Montana;

Career NFL statistics
Pass attempts: 5,391
Pass completions: 3,409
Percentage: 63.2
TDINT: 273–139
Passing yards: 40,551
Passer rating: 92.3

Compared to...

The Greatest of All-Time Greats; Brady. 

Career NFL statistics as of 2019
Passing attempts: 9,988
Passing completions: 6,377
Completion percentage: 63.8
TDINT: 541–179
Passing yards: 74,571
Passer rating: 97.0
   

In what world are we living in where Joe Montana had ever been better than Tom Brady? It's not even a discussion anymore...

I don’t think it’s fair to compare stats from different eras. The game is so much different today.

In the 80s Darnolds stats would be top half of the league. In today game it’s 29-32. 

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1 minute ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I strongly disagree (Montana was once considered the greatest of All-Time, but not anymore thnx to #12). 

Tom Brady is 42 years old and is still playing great (Montana retired @ 38). 

Tom Brady over the past two seasons throughout his 40's (including the playoffs and 1 SB win)...

• 26-10 record (72.2%).                     

• 748/1183 (62.2%).                                     

• 8,412 passing yards.                                 

• 53 TD's/19 INT's

•QB Rating of 92.5.

(I'd give up my left nut just to see Sam Darnold ever put together a two year span as the one Brady's put together while over the age of 40).  

Brady's greatness lasted much longer than Montana's greatness did but Tom Brady (different era or not) has broken each and every statistical statistic known to mankind that Joe Montana had ever set himself. 

And everyone makes such a big deal over Montana's undefeated 4-0 SB record (while completely ignoring his 7 playoff loses @ the same time, as if he "never lost") but Tom Brady has been to 9 SB's and won 6 of them; Brady has more SB rings (6) than Montana does SB appearances (4). 

Not only that, but...

Montana;

Career NFL statistics
Pass attempts: 5,391
Pass completions: 3,409
Percentage: 63.2
TDINT: 273–139
Passing yards: 40,551
Passer rating: 92.3

Compared to...

The Greatest of All-Time Greats; Brady. 

Career NFL statistics as of 2019
Passing attempts: 9,988
Passing completions: 6,377
Completion percentage: 63.8
TDINT: 541–179
Passing yards: 74,571
Passer rating: 97.0
   

In what world are we living in where Joe Montana had ever been better than Tom Brady? It's not even a discussion anymore...

You never even saw Montana play. And if you did, you were to young to appreciate his greatness. So go eat you pablum.

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3 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I strongly disagree (Montana was once considered the greatest of All-Time, but not anymore thnx to #12). 

Tom Brady is 42 years old and is still playing great (Montana retired @ 38). 

Stats, stats, and so called stats

In what world are we living in where Joe Montana had ever been better than Tom Brady? It's not even a discussion anymore...

If these statistics and individual accomplishments doesn't point out Brady's greatness once compared to Joe Montana's greatness; then I guess nothing ever will. 

This world. Stats are so skewed because of the way the NFL has changed over the years.

What would Montana have done with the amount of protection QBs get these days, with the whole way everything is slanted toward passing? Scary thought.

Conversely, what would Brady done had he been round in the 80s? He'd have lasted three or four seasons before some old school LB got fed up with his constant whining to the refs and broken him like a twig.

 

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Until Belichick makes a playoff run without Brady- not even win a super bowl just a playoff run- he’s the NFL’s Phil Jackson

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The Jets have the best QB in the division right now and the best defense.

The Buffalo Bills are all hype and a one hit wonder with Allen who overthrows his receivers.

The Dolphins are the Dolphins who have not been any good since the time we let them have Pennington in 2008.

The Patriots will finally suck for the first time since the Bill Clinton administration which was a hell of a long time ago. Also a long time coming

If our Jets play their cards right and Joe Douglas builds more during the draft this April then we have a good chance to win the AFC East since 2002.

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22 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Who cares?  I can do this with almost every multiple SB winning HC's.  How many did Walsh win without Montana? 

How many wouldn't he have won without Brady?  Want to prove he wouldn't have any or how many he wouldn't have won with someone else at QB?

No way to prove it. 

Different situations.

Joe Montana was a rookie the year Walsh became a coach in 1979 until 1988 and Montana arrived as a rookie in 1979 and played in San Fran into the early 90's. 

So you can not use that argument because...

A.) Bill Walsh was an offensive mind and actually worked side by side of Joe and coached up a baby Montana; all while... 

B.) Belichick is a defensive guy, never worked alongside of Tom, mostly ignored him and never coached up Brady as only Charlie Weis and Josh McDaniels have (Walsh deserves way more credit for Montana than Belichick deserves for Brady; and it's not even a comparison as Walsh/Montana worked hand and hand/side by side). 

C.) Bill Walsh never coached and LOST a for 7 full NFL years without Joe Montana.

Who knows what Walsh would've done without Montana? But Walsh was never a career loser of 6 years before Montana however Belichick was a career loser before Brady for 6.2 years lol. 

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23 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Who cares?  I can do this with almost every multiple SB winning HC's.  How many did Walsh win without Montana? 

How many wouldn't he have won without Brady?  Want to prove he wouldn't have any or how many he wouldn't have won with someone else at QB?

No way to prove it. 

Yes there is. 

Bill Belichick has coached 7 full years without Tom Brady. 

During those 7 years without Brady he's gone 0/7 in winning super bowls. 

During those 7 years without Brady? He's made the playoffs 1 time and completely missed the playoffs SIX TIMES. 

lol. 

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30 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Yes there is. 

Bill Belichick has coached 7 full years without Tom Brady. 

During those 7 years without Brady he's gone 0/7 in winning super bowls. 

During those 7 years without Brady? He's made the playoffs 1 time and completely missed the playoffs SIX TIMES. 

lol. 

Has it ever occurred to you that Bill Belichick has learned with experience over the last 30 years and may have evolved as a coach? Do you think it's possible that he's not the same coach today that he was when he was with the Browns learning about what being a head coach means? Do you actually think he spent the last 20 years getting carried by Tom Brady and is now going to revert to the Browns version of Bill Belichick? Do you think it was all Tom Brady that made the Patriots the longest dynasty in NFL history? Coaching had nothing to do with it?

Get real. 

Bill Belichick is the easily the best coach in the division. Adam Gase can't hold his jock strap.

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27 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Has it ever occurred to you that Bill Belichick has learned with experience over the last 30 years and may have evolved as a coach? Do you think it's possible that he's not the same coach today that he was when he was with the Browns learning about what being a head coach means? Do you actually think he spent the last 20 years getting carried by Tom Brady and is now going to revert to the Browns version of Bill Belichick? 

Get real. 

Bill Belichick is the easily the best coach in the division. Adam Gase can't hold his jock strap.

Best coach in the division? Not without Brady, he's not. 

He was 0-3 as NE coach all time vs our Jets before Brady. 

And evolved? Ha. He completely missed the playoffs and split 1-1 with the Jets with Cassel after Brady's undefeated season and even allowed the Miami Dolphins to win our division lol @ "evolved". 

Fraud. 

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2 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Best coach in the division? He was 0-3 as NE coach all time vs our Jets before Brady. 

And evolved? Ha. He completely missed the playoffs and split 1-1 with the Jets with Cassel after Brady's undefeated season and even allowed the Miami Dolphins to win our division lol @ "evolved". 

Fraud. 

12 years ago when Cassel replaced injured Brady? When they won 11 games with Matt f'n Cassel? How about more recently when Brady was suspended and they went 3-1 without him?

The Patriots win percentage without Brady since Brady started is better than any coach in the league.

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51 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Different situations.

Joe Montana was a rookie the year Walsh became a coach in 1979 until 1988 and Montana arrived as a rookie in 1979 and played in San Fran into the early 90's. 

So you can not use that argument because...

A.) Bill Walsh was an offensive mind and actually worked side by side of Joe and coached up a baby Montana; all while... 

B.) Belichick is a defensive guy, never worked alongside of Tom, mostly ignored him and never coached up Brady as only Charlie Weis and Josh McDaniels have (Walsh deserves way more credit for Montana than Belichick deserves for Brady; and it's not even a comparison as Walsh/Montana worked hand and hand/side by side). 

C.) Bill Walsh never coached and LOST a for 7 full NFL years without Joe Montana.

Who knows what Walsh would've done without Montana? But Walsh was never a career loser of 6 years before Montana however Belichick was a career loser before Brady for 6.2 years lol. 

How the hell can I not use the argument?  Walsh is an all time great and only won with one HOF, GOAT type QB.  Hes still and all time great, no one would argue hes not.  Not a single person. 

I have no idea whats the point of this diatribe 

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51 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Yes there is. 

Bill Belichick has coached 7 full years without Tom Brady. 

During those 7 years without Brady he's gone 0/7 in winning super bowls. 

During those 7 years without Brady? He's made the playoffs 1 time and completely missed the playoffs SIX TIMES. 

lol. 

So what the hell does this prove?  That he was a bad HC back then or didnt have talent back then?  

Again who cares, when he changed or when he had talent he won.  Point is he won.  If you dont think hes a good HC, one of the best off of this part of his career I dont know what to tell you.  You can hate him because for lots of good reasons but you know hes a top HC.  This is all pointless and doenst change 6 SB rings out of 9 tries.  No one is close.  Accept it

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Until we see otherwise, the AFC East is open to New England (still) and now Buffalo. ll other still have to meet the height requirement to ride the rides.

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The best head coach of ALL TIME is Joe Gibbs. Take Brady away from Belichick & see if he can win 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs like Gibbs did. Until another coach wins Super Bowls with DIFFERENT QBs they're all looking up at Gibbs. 

Belichick won nothing without Brady, and I'm telling you right now he's not winning another Super Bowl without him.

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On 3/28/2020 at 2:47 PM, Defense Wins Championships said:

I strongly disagree (Montana was once considered the greatest of All-Time, but not anymore thnx to #12). 

Tom Brady is 42 years old and is still playing great (Montana retired @ 38). 

Tom Brady over the past two seasons throughout his 40's (including the playoffs and 1 SB win)...

• 26-10 record (72.2%).                     

• 748/1183 (62.2%).                                     

• 8,412 passing yards.                                 

• 53 TD's/19 INT's

•QB Rating of 92.5.

(I'd give up my left nut just to see Sam Darnold ever put together a two year span as the one Brady's put together while over the age of 40).  

Brady's greatness lasted much longer than Montana's greatness did but Tom Brady (different era or not) has broken each and every statistical statistic known to mankind that Joe Montana had ever set himself. 

And everyone makes such a big deal over Montana's undefeated 4-0 SB record (while completely ignoring his 7 playoff loses @ the same time, as if he "never lost") but Tom Brady has been to 9 SB's and won 6 of them; Brady has more SB rings (6) than Montana does SB appearances (4). 

Not only that, but...

Joe Montana;

Career NFL statistics
Pass attempts: 5,391
Pass completions: 3,409
Percentage: 63.2
TDINT: 273–139
Passing yards: 40,551
Passer rating: 92.3

Compared to The Greatest of All-Time Greats...

Tom Brady: 

Career NFL statistics as of 2019
Passing attempts: 9,988
Passing completions: 6,377
Completion percentage: 63.8
TDINT: 541–179
Passing yards: 74,571
Passer rating: 97.0
   

In what world are we living in where Joe Montana had ever been better than Tom Brady? It's not even a discussion anymore...

If these statistics and individual accomplishments doesn't point out Brady's greatness once compared to Joe Montana's greatness; then I guess nothing ever will. 

O down voted because they played in different eras, where qbs were allowed to be hit IMagine comparing Brady to Namath when QBs were allowed to be killed. Sorry but you lost me when you compared the ages they retired. Fine the lets line up and smack brady like Montana and that era was hit then we can talk about ages when they retired

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On 3/28/2020 at 11:30 AM, Philc1 said:

14 games under .500 without the GOAT doing everything for him

I think it's 9 games but still not impressive why way you look at it.

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39 minutes ago, rammagen said:

O down voted because they played in different eras, where qbs were allowed to be hit IMagine comparing Brady to Namath when QBs were allowed to be killed. Sorry but you lost me when you compared the ages they retired. Fine the lets line up and smack brady like Montana and that era was hit then we can talk about ages when they retired

Montana played in the "in the grasp" era where basically if a defender halfway wrapped you up they blew the whistle.  Players are bigger, stronger, faster than ever before.  Rules are in place to protect QBs but they still get hit as hard as ever.

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3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Montana played in the "in the grasp" era where basically if a defender halfway wrapped you up they blew the whistle.  Players are bigger, stronger, faster than ever before.  Rules are in place to protect QBs but they still get hit as hard as ever.

my lord, for someone who remembers every stat from every game ever you seem to have a very poor memory of how QB's used to actually take hits. You can't even sniff them now.

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2 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

my lord, for someone who remembers every stat from every game ever you seem to have a very poor memory of how QB's used to actually take hits. You can't even sniff them now.

So you don't remember the in the grasp era?  

Sure there were still big hits just as there are today but that's the era they started protecting QBs and with each new generation they will be protected more.  In 20 years fans of this era will complain how soft the league is compared to the 2010s.

 

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3 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

there would have been 12 flags on the field

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

So you don't remember the in the grasp era?  

Sure there were still big hits just as there are today but that's the era they started protecting QBs and with each new generation they will be protected more.  In 20 years fans of this era will complain how soft the league is compared to the 2010s.

 

In the grasp only stopped people from piling on and whipping them around when they were already wrapped up. Didn't stop all the hard hits that would have been penalties today.

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