Would you consider trading into the top 10 for your choice of OT

[southtown24th]

NEED A BIG TIME LT FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS

[Obrien2Toon]

I think Thomas will be a franchise LT for the next 12 years

try to find a way to get him if reasonable 

[jetstream23]

I voted....

Quote

I'd prefer to trade down and target Josh Jones, Austin Jackson or fill this need later in the draft (Peart, Bartch)

...with the caveat being that I'd hold off on trading down until we see who is available at #11.

I am starting to have a strong preference for trading down though.  I want 3 picks in the Top 48 even if it means not having a pick in the Top 20.  The second tier WRs and OTs are all borderline first tier in any other Draft.  IMO Josh Jones is a better prospect than Jonah Williams (last year's first OT taken) and guys like Justin Jefferson and Denzel Mims are excellent prospects.  We'd be lucky to get either one of them in the 1st round while grabbing another team's late 2nd rounder to trade back.

[bitonti]

24 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

What if you include Jones in tier 1?  

Jones is not tier 1 due to arm length concerns 

I do like this player alot however and he could be a similar player to Beachum. 

they can get a starter at less than 1st round prices... in fact they probably already have.

This player probably won't be Orlando Pace however.  

11 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I enjoyed this breakdown of Wills v Wirfs btw, and it's a big reason why I'm a Wills guy. 

Also would be happy to grab a player like Ben Bartch from St Johns later in the draft after reading about his senior bowl practice week. 

Both Wills and Wirfs came in under 6'5" and that could be a problem when projecting them to franchise LT. Wirfs has the athleticism at least but he's not necessarily a day 1 LT starter. He might be Trent Williams part 2 but he also might be Brandon Scherff in fact (or Robert Gallery) an Iowa dude who's kind of overdrafted and better at guard than tackle. 

Wills and Wirfs are 3 and 4 on my tackle list behind Becton and Thomas, and I would argue some teams have Wirfs at guard. 

[section314]

13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Jones is not tier 1 due to arm length concerns 

I do like this player alot however and he could be a similar player to Beachum. 

they can get a starter at less than 1st round prices... in fact they probably already have.

This player probably won't be Orlando Pace however.  

Both Wills and Wirfs came in under 6'5" and that could be a problem when projecting them to franchise LT. Wirfs has the athleticism at least but he's not necessarily a day 1 LT starter. He might be Trent Williams part 2 but he also might be Brandon Scherff in fact (or Robert Gallery) an Iowa dude who's kind of overdrafted and better at guard than tackle. 

Wills and Wirfs are 3 and 4 on my tackle list behind Becton and Thomas, and I would argue some teams have Wirfs at guard. 

As it turns out, neither was James Farrior.?

[RedBeardedSavage]

25 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Jones is not tier 1 due to arm length concerns 

I do like this player alot however and he could be a similar player to Beachum. 

they can get a starter at less than 1st round prices... in fact they probably already have.

This player probably won't be Orlando Pace however.  

Both Wills and Wirfs came in under 6'5" and that could be a problem when projecting them to franchise LT. Wirfs has the athleticism at least but he's not necessarily a day 1 LT starter. He might be Trent Williams part 2 but he also might be Brandon Scherff in fact (or Robert Gallery) an Iowa dude who's kind of overdrafted and better at guard than tackle. 

Wills and Wirfs are 3 and 4 on my tackle list behind Becton and Thomas, and I would argue some teams have Wirfs at guard. 

Good insights, as always.

Do you think it matters what side they start on, btw? Should I care if Wills remains on the right as a pro bowler for the next 10 years? It seems to me you need two good pass blocking tackles and I think the whole LT v RT distinction is getting less important. And for first rounders, while a baseline of NFL athleticism is an absolute must, the functionality of actual production (ready to play) can be more important. 

The ideal scenario for me is that teams are prioritizing freakish athleticism and classic LT projections over actual production and NFL readiness. If Becton and Wirfs go earlier than Thomas and Wills, I think that works in our favor.

[RedBeardedSavage]

35 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I voted....

...with the caveat being that I'd hold off on trading down until we see who is available at #11.

I am starting to have a strong preference for trading down though.  I want 3 picks in the Top 48 even if it means not having a pick in the Top 20.  The second tier WRs and OTs are all borderline first tier in any other Draft.  IMO Josh Jones is a better prospect than Jonah Williams (last year's first OT taken) and guys like Justin Jefferson and Denzel Mims are excellent prospects.  We'd be lucky to get either one of them in the 1st round while grabbing another team's late 2nd rounder to trade back.

I like Mims a lot. I like Josh Jones a lot. I'm open to trading down and taking either player. 

I just know that last year, and the Jamal Adams year, I've wanted to trade down and we didn't. We'll see if that was the GM, that nobody coveted our pick those years or simply it's far more difficult to trade down than is understood. 

[pajet]

voted yes I'd trade up, with the caveate that its only if it is one of T's i really like and the cost isn't aborbatant.    Reality is the top 8 or so picks would determine what I'd do.   I would be open to all three scenarios to be honest.   depending on how the board falls, the best scenario might be trade down in the first and possibly trade up in the 2nd to make sure you get the OT/WR you want in the second.

[jetstream23]

2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I like Mims a lot. I like Josh Jones a lot. I'm open to trading down and taking either player. 

I just know that last year, and the Jamal Adams year, I've wanted to trade down and we didn't. We'll see if that was the GM, that nobody coveted our pick those years or simply it's far more difficult to trade down than is understood. 

I'm with you 100%.  Either of those guys would be fine with me, as would Justin Jefferson.

#11 is a potential pivot point in this Draft I think.  There's a decent chance that if the top 3-4 OTs are gone then at least one of the 3 QBs or the top 2 DT's will have slipped.  All 5 of those guys, according to most "experts", are Top 10 worthy picks.....so which team behind us would want to come up to #11?  That will be the question.

Also, based on how Joe D has operated in Free Agency by trying to collect a lot of good/very good players at moderate prices while not spending big $$$ for anyone considered great (Conklin, etc.) he might do the same thing in the Draft.  I'd guess his preference would be to have a larger quantity of very good players rather than just a small number of great ones (Ex. Getting Mims and Peart, rather than just CeeDee Lamb).

[bitonti]

19 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Good insights, as always.

Do you think it matters what side they start on, btw? Should I care if Wills remains on the right as a pro bowler for the next 10 years? It seems to me you need two good pass blocking tackles and I think the whole LT v RT distinction is getting less important. And for first rounders, while a baseline of NFL athleticism is an absolute must, the functionality of actual production (ready to play) can be more important. 

The ideal scenario for me is that teams are prioritizing freakish athleticism and classic LT projections over actual production and NFL readiness. If Becton and Wirfs go earlier than Thomas and Wills, I think that works in our favor.

Gase prioritizes height and agility in his linemen. JD prioritizes (in FA at least), technicians with less penalties. Wills is the venn diagram of being neither one of these favorite. He's shortish by tackle standards and penalty prone by college football standards.

again, they would have trouble passing on Wills.  But he could be a player they just don't like for whatever reason (and probably goes 8 to Arizona and plays 10 years out there and it's not an issue)

the larger issue is looking at the teams ahead of the NYJ, there's like 6 out of the top 10 with major OT needs.

there's a reasonable chance they miss out on 3 out of 4, if not all 4 of the tackles by 11. Hence this thread/poll. 

 

 

[peekskill68]

Strategic brilliance by Macc leaving a roster this full of holes that JD has maximum flexibility at 11...   

[Defense Wins Championships]

Not a chance.

We've got a 2nd and then two excellent (high) 3rd rounders along with a 4th rounder to continue building our offensive line. 

Joe Douglas is a former O-Lineman himself and shouldn't be here if we must trade up into the 1st in order to scout solid offensive lineman. 

This could become one of the greatest WR draft classes of All-Time (as was 2014) while being headlined by Jerry Jeudy and CeeDee Lamb (as were Odell Beckham Jr., Mike Evans and Sammy Watkins). 

The top two/three O-Lineman will be long gone by pick 11 (too many roster holes to trade up) and there is no way that you pass up on the headlines of an All-Time Great WR draft class and the two very best WR's in either Jeudy/Lamb and/or Lamb/Jeudy in order to select the 3rd or 4th rated O-Lineman vs. the very best of an All-Time great WR class. 

If Jeudy/Lamb are on the board and available @ 11? And Douglas passes up and skips on them both before drafting the 3rd or 4th rated O-Lineman?

Do you know what happens next outside of me being pissed and turning off the Television?

You'll then see (immediately following) both of Jeudy and Lamb fly off the board. And back to back too. 

I trust that Joe Douglas can hit on offensive line especially with a 2nd and two 3rds and I'm sorry but Sam Darnold needs offensive playmakers too ala Sanchez of 2011 had none after losing Braylon/Cotchery and replaced by aging Mason/Plaxico and even with an O-Line already in place that became the end of Sanchez. 

I voted to stay put and keep our picks before being in position to celebrate because both of and/or one of either Jeudy or CeeDee will be there and they are going to become superstar #1 outside WR's as both Beckham Jr. and Mike Evans once did. 

[nycdan]

17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Gase prioritizes height and agility in his linemen. JD prioritizes (in FA at least), technicians with less penalties. Wills is the venn diagram of being neither one of these favorite. He's shortish by tackle standards and penalty prone by college football standards.

again, they would have trouble passing on Wills.  But he could be a player they just don't like for whatever reason (and probably goes 8 to Arizona and plays 10 years out there and it's not an issue)

the larger issue is looking at the teams ahead of the NYJ, there's like 6 out of the top 10 with major OT needs.

there's a reasonable chance they miss out on 3 out of 4, if not all 4 of the tackles by 11. Hence this thread/poll. 

 

 

Definitely possible this year even though there's only been one draft perhaps ever with more than 3 OL taken in the top 10 picks (at least that I could find).  Also bear in mind while many teams have needs at OT, they usually also have other glaring needs as well.  NYG need lots, including a dominant LB like Simmons or even a WR.  And while it's early for them to take a WR, this is Gettleman we are talking about.

I think ARI and CLE are the clear-cut teams that should and probably will draft OL ahead of us, but I'd say the odds are maybe 50-50 that anyone else does and maybe 25% that four teams do.  Based on that, though, I think having a trade framed out to move up to 9 or even 7 isn't a terrible idea.  Trade value charts are barely even guidelines but using them as just that, it's 100 pts. to move to 9 and 250 pts. to move to 7.  Those equate to our lower third rounder (with some premium given by us) to get to 9 or our higher 3rd rounder plus next year's 3rd more or less to get to 7.  I'm not keen on the bigger move, but moving to 9 for our lower 3rd round pick to jump CLE if there is one guy we really like on the board after ARI picks makes sense to me.

[bitonti]

12 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Definitely possible this year even though there's only been one draft perhaps ever with more than 3 OL taken in the top 10 picks (at least that I could find).  Also bear in mind while many teams have needs at OT, they usually also have other glaring needs as well.  NYG need lots, including a dominant LB like Simmons or even a WR.  And while it's early for them to take a WR, this is Gettleman we are talking about.

I think ARI and CLE are the clear-cut teams that should and probably will draft OL ahead of us, but I'd say the odds are maybe 50-50 that anyone else does and maybe 25% that four teams do.  Based on that, though, I think having a trade framed out to move up to 9 or even 7 isn't a terrible idea.  Trade value charts are barely even guidelines but using them as just that, it's 100 pts. to move to 9 and 250 pts. to move to 7.  Those equate to our lower third rounder (with some premium given by us) to get to 9 or our higher 3rd rounder plus next year's 3rd more or less to get to 7.  I'm not keen on the bigger move, but moving to 9 for our lower 3rd round pick to jump CLE if there is one guy we really like on the board after ARI picks makes sense to me.

NYG is almost certain to go OT and MIA makes a ton of sense too as does CAR (Russell Okung isn't a long term plan). 

put need aside for a second are the top 4 OT in the top 10 players in the draft? Other years, heck no, there might be one, but this year, it's entirely possible. 

Joe Burrow, Chase Young, Jeff Okudah, Isaiah Simmons, Derrick Brown and Tua. That's 6 dudes. Add the 4 tackles. Maybe someone takes a WR ahead of the NYJ but it's also possible no one does. 

 

[nycdan]

37 minutes ago, bitonti said:

NYG is almost certain to go OT and MIA makes a ton of sense too as does CAR (Russell Okung isn't a long term plan). 

put need aside for a second are the top 4 OT in the top 10 players in the draft? Other years, heck no, there might be one, but this year, it's entirely possible. 

Joe Burrow, Chase Young, Jeff Okudah, Isaiah Simmons, Derrick Brown and Tua. That's 6 dudes. Add the 4 tackles. Maybe someone takes a WR ahead of the NYJ but it's also possible no one does. 

 

Herbert might go top-10.  That's the most likely way one drops to 11.

Outside chance a guy like Kinlaw goes top-10 as well.

But yeah, that feels like the only two guys beyond the WRs the can help us out.  Weird that there's just one Edge rusher and one LB in the whole bunch.

[PS17]

Stay put. We are getting a great OT or WR prospect at 11. 

[Philc1]

18 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I voted....

...with the caveat being that I'd hold off on trading down until we see who is available at #11.

I am starting to have a strong preference for trading down though.  I want 3 picks in the Top 48 even if it means not having a pick in the Top 20.  The second tier WRs and OTs are all borderline first tier in any other Draft.  IMO Josh Jones is a better prospect than Jonah Williams (last year's first OT taken) and guys like Justin Jefferson and Denzel Mims are excellent prospects.  We'd be lucky to get either one of them in the 1st round while grabbing another team's late 2nd rounder to trade back.

The 5th and 6th rated OTs this year are better than Jonah

[Philc1]

16 hours ago, nycdan said:

Herbert might go top-10.  That's the most likely way one drops to 11.

Outside chance a guy like Kinlaw goes top-10 as well.

But yeah, that feels like the only two guys beyond the WRs the can help us out.  Weird that there's just one Edge rusher and one LB in the whole bunch.

If I’m the Dolphins I stop obsessing over Tua and draft Herbert

[Philc1]

16 hours ago, bitonti said:

NYG is almost certain to go OT and MIA makes a ton of sense too as does CAR (Russell Okung isn't a long term plan). 

put need aside for a second are the top 4 OT in the top 10 players in the draft? Other years, heck no, there might be one, but this year, it's entirely possible. 

Joe Burrow, Chase Young, Jeff Okudah, Isaiah Simmons, Derrick Brown and Tua. That's 6 dudes. Add the 4 tackles. Maybe someone takes a WR ahead of the NYJ but it's also possible no one does. 

 

I think Giants go defense.  Solder still has left in the tank and their defense couldn’t stop Hackenberg 

[RichardTodd27]

19 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

This is a rare opportunity to fill one of the three Elite, A-1 important positions in football with an elite player. You can't pass that up

Agree 100%.

And historically when it comes to winning football games, O-linemen have always been much better investments than wr's (which are much easier to find).

But in the fantasy football and Jersey selling world, getting the big name wr would be the way to go.

[Butterfield]

Trade down (maybe even more than once) and target Ezra Cleveland. 
 

Fits Gases need for an athletic lineman who can play in space, while accumulating more picks in a deep draft.  

[RichardTodd27]

18 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Also, based on how Joe D has operated in Free Agency by trying to collect a lot of good/very good players at moderate prices while not spending big $$$ for anyone considered great (Conklin, etc.) he might do the same thing in the Draft.  I'd guess his preference would be to have a larger quantity of very good players rather than just a small number of great ones (Ex. Getting Mims and Peart, rather than just CeeDee Lamb).

That's a great point. Makes me believe that JD would trade down (at he's least more likely than Mac).

Also, I like Trent Williams and Tyron Smith a lot, but I can't see JD making a move for these guys. They don't fit the profile you just mentioned.

[Greensleeves]

21 hours ago, nycdan said:

I'm fine with it if there is a big delta between two remaining OTs and we have a chance to jump up and grab one of them.   This is a guy we are hoping will start for us for the next 10 years at a premium position.  Is a third round pick really important enough to blow that?  Again, this hinges on JD's assessment of the talent on the board, but if you have a chance to take the next D'Brick or Lane Johnson instead of waiting and settling for a guy who may never be a quality starter, that 3rd rounder is a very small price to pay. 

Picks have value in terms of how much talent you can use them to acquire, not just how many players.

Because this draft is so deep at OT and WR I look at it this way - do we want to lose out on a potential star receiver or OT in the third round just to take someone that may be marginally better? This receiver class could absolutely produce a star or two in the 3rd round and a solid OT starter. I prefer getting Lamb, Ruggs or Jeudy, a guy like Peart and then another receiver and OT in the 3rd round. I also prefer the better fit at OT - if they are gone in the first take your guy in the second. Don’t just take one of the top 4 guys if they don’t thrive in our system. How many guys are called busts because of this?

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 minute ago, Greensleeves said:

Because this draft is so deep at OT and WR I look at it this way - do we want to lose out on a potential star receiver or OT in the third round just to take someone that may be marginally better? This receiver class could absolutely produce a star or two in the 3rd round and a solid OT starter. I prefer getting Lamb, Ruggs or Jeudy, a guy like Peart and then another receiver and OT in the 3rd round. I also prefer the better fit at OT - if they are gone in the first take your guy in the second. Don’t just take one of the top 4 guys if they don’t thrive in our system. How many guys are called busts because of this?

What if one of the top four OT does fit with our system and the other three don’t? 

That’s an argument to go get the player. A lot depends on how things unfold on draft day, but I think a prudent approach allows for the opportunity of a trade-up for a specific tackle if he falls to a certain pick.

The difference in production between CeeDee, Ruggs & Jeudy with say Pittman, Aiuyuk & Jefferson is likely far less than the difference in readiness & production between the top 4 OT’s, and Peart, Cleveland & Bartch. 

I think we need to make sure we get one of those 4 OT’s and I’m cool with us moving up to get the one of our choice, the one that fits our team. We just can’t give up this year’s second in the process - since that’s the sweet spot @ WR. 

[Wonderboy]

Browns are going tackle. No doubt about it. So if there's only one left after that 8th pick, you jump up to 9 and make the trade. Any of the top 4 OL are imperative. 

[Philc1]

Just now, Wonderboy said:

Browns are going tackle. No doubt about it. So if there's only one left after that 8th pick, you jump up to 9 and make the trade. Any of the top 4 OL are imperative. 

They should go qb