Will you be upset if the Jets draft Isaiah Simmons at 11?

[GREENBEAN]

I totally think he is gonna fall. He’s a man without a position and not top ten material . He’s a first rdr but will make it until the late teens or 20’s imo. And he’ll picked them more because of some idiot GM who can’t pass up on the value BPA stuff.

I keep trying to figure out who is really going to pass on either these QB’s, the best OT class in forever, the top of the best WR class in a decade or young and Okudah for Simmons.

I just don’t see it.


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[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

So Jamal Adams and Isiah Simmons can’t play on the same defense?  Got it.

No they can.  Just expect Jamals tackles to go way down for him to get 1 sack and still have his annual 1 int.

[sheastadiumjetfan]

Just say no to picking any d at #11

JD gets it

OL or WR or trade down 

[Defense Wins Championships]

6 hours ago, RobR said:

Did you even watch him play? Every team knew the best way to neutralize LT was to run straight at him. He was strictly an amazing passrusher but lacked in every other category. 

I only had a chance to watch LT's later years during the early 90's but I was just a kid then and as a Jets fan I'd blow a head gasket if we were to pass up on a Jeudy or Lamb for a defensive player...

But I'm sorry, Lawrence Taylor was not weak against the run and he was physically impossible to neutralize as he was dominant at everything an ROLB needed to be dominant at; so much so to the point of becoming a 3x Defensive Player of the Year, 2x NFC Player of the Year and even won an NFL League MVP award back in 1986 (becoming the first and only defensive player to win it since 1971 and has not been done ever since 86' and probably won't be done ever again). 

And that doesn't happen if he were ever weak against the run as he recorded 1,089 career tackles and 83.7 tackles per season is not weak against the run for an ROLB (Khalil Mack for example is an OLB and has yet to ever record over 80 tackles during a single season as LT was just an animal and all out freak of nature).  

He was dominant against the run too. 

[Dcat]

would I be upset?

extremely.  Same Old Jets.

[nyjbuddy]

If used like a Derwin James or Jamal Adams he should be fine.  But the Jets already have Adams and Mosley, before injury, could do a lot of the same.

For a player comp, he reminds me of Taylor Mays. Big, athletic, playmaker where their athleticism makes up for some of their weaknesses.

Next years' draft is also filled with talented LBs.  Dylan Moses is a comparable prospect to Isaiah Simmons.  They'll also have guys like Micah Parsons (1st rounder), Carlton Martial, Joseph Ossai, Paddy Fisher.

[Bronxville Jets Fan]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If our pick comes up and Simmons is truly the BPA.....trade down and take the top OT or WR on our board.  Or reach a little for the top OT or WR.  It won't be a major reach.  

I’m not disagreeing with you, but as I said earlier if Simmons is there at 11 it’s likely because a number of OTs and WRs weren’t in the top 10, meaning I could see Douglas not valuing any of the remaining OTs or WRs that high!a as not getting any good trade down offers.  Look, I absolutely hate that we have the 11th pick because I’m worried there’s going to be a run on OTs in the top 10 and the remaining BPAs are going to be defensive players like Simmons or Brown, which is why I’m praying they get scooped up early.

[jetlaw]

It’s simple. If the 4 tackles are gone and Simmons is there trade down. If you have to take a little bit less than the chart says fine. This draft is so deep at receiver if the jets get an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick they can still get a really good player.


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[Snell41]

You apparently only think LT was known for his sacks.  LT dropped back in coverage, played the run and also rushed the passer.  What made him so unique was he was doing all that at 6'3 243 IIbs  which was big for linebacker when most were around 220-225.   Simmons is 235-240 and 6'4 and can do it all as well.    Rather than debate this, I will just wait until next season when this kid is candidate for defensive player of the year.   I think this all a moot point because there is no way I see him falling to 11.   

LT was the greatest defender of all time. If Simmons’ talent was comparable to LT he’d be the unquestioned #1 overall pick without a doubt. There’s no comparison at all.


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[Smashmouth]

18 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Fixed

Building a great Corp of OL is the way to go if you want an elite offense then everything falls into place. 

I get what you are saying but in a scenario where all the really good OT's are off the board do we pick one just for the sake of picking one and wind up with a dud ? The draft obviously has a lot of moving parts and reaching with the 11th pick would be silly based on a need. The WR and OL positions are said to be deep and we have some day 2 and 3 picks to stock up if need be. If the scenario the OP put out there happens meaning the WR's we wanted and the OT we wanted are gone then we need to move on and either trade the pick if we get good return or take the next best player available that's not a DL

 

[Matt39]

Here for the Lawrence Taylor was actually overrated hot takes.

[Sammybighead]

Very

[Jimmy 2 Times]

9 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I only had a chance to watch LT's later years during the early 90's but I was just a kid then and as a Jets fan I'd blow a head gasket if we were to pass up on a Jeudy or Lamb for a defensive player...

But I'm sorry, Lawrence Taylor was not weak against the run and he was physically impossible to neutralize as he was dominant at everything an ROLB needed to be dominant at; so much so to the point of becoming a 3x Defensive Player of the Year, 2x NFC Player of the Year and even won an NFL League MVP award back in 1986 (becoming the first and only defensive player to win it since 1971 and has not been done ever since 86' and probably won't be done ever again). 

And that doesn't happen if he were ever weak against the run as he recorded 1,089 career tackles and 83.7 tackles per season is not weak against the run for an ROLB (Khalil Mack for example is an OLB and has yet to ever record over 80 tackles during a single season as LT was just an animal and all out freak of nature).  

He was dominant against the run too. 

 

 

There were one or two games (one was vs the Rams and HOF Jackie Slater) were they ran right at LT with the massive T, the pulling Guard, and the diving Fullback and LT got ate up at the point of attack.

That started this whole narrative that he was weak against the run.

 

It's wrong.  

It took an entire gameplay to run at LT.

Then when you ran away from him he ran down your back like a lion vs a zebra. 

 

LT was a pure MONSTER.

I watched just about every game he ever played and no one could convince me that he wasn't the most dominant football player (not just defense) I ever saw. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

 

 

There were one or two games (one was vs the Rams and HOF Jackie Slater) were they ran right at LT with the massive T, the pulling Guard, and the diving Fullback and LT got ate up at the point of attack.

That started this whole narrative that he was weak against the run.

 

It's wrong.  

It took an entire gameplay to run at LT.

Then when you ran away from him he ran down your back like a lion vs a zebra. 

 

LT was a pure MONSTER.

I watched just about every game he ever played and no one could convince me that he wasn't the most dominant football player (not just defense) I ever saw. 

Him and Reggie White. Reggie White was just as dominant in the trenches. And Ray Lewis was the best of my generation hands down. 

[section314]

I remember how Shula used to totally take Gastineau out of games by running plays right at him .

[Villain The Foe]

Why are we even talking about Lawrence Taylor and Isaiah Simmons in the same breath? We do this every year. 

 

2015: Leonard Williams is the next JJ Watt/Richard Seymour. 5 years later...he's Leonard Williams. 

2019: Quinnen Williams is the next Aaron Darnold. 1 year later Williams rookie season wasnt even as good as Ed Oliver, let alone being anywhere near Aaron Donalds. 

 

Just because we compare a guy to a HOF talent doesnt then mean that we're passing on a HOF talent. The Jets need to address the offense because they drafted a QB 3 drafts ago and provided him nothing since drafting him. Even if Simmons became the next Taylor, what difference does it make if we have nothing on offense? You dont win games if you dont score points. Points are most important and the Jets are not scoring points. We're not going to win games if we have to hold teams under 17 points every week because the Jets can't score points. 

 

Sam Darnold/This offense is more important than anything on the defense at this point. We've literally spent an entire decade doing exactly that, spending all of our resources on defense because of these "Cant pass players" only for our offense to go to sh*t and these players not being The Next "Fill in Hall of Famer name" type player. 

 

I wouldnt care if Simmons, Young and Okudah were sitting there. All that should me is that we have a fantastic opportunity to trade down and acquire more draft stock to help Sam Darnold. 

Im about done with "Sam is great but the Jets have nothing around him" followed with "But if this defender who's the next Watt, Darnold, LT is there we cant pass that up". 

Yes the hell we can. 

[Wonderboy]

3 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

I get what you are saying but in a scenario where all the really good OT's are off the board do we pick one just for the sake of picking one and wind up with a dud ? The draft obviously has a lot of moving parts and reaching with the 11th pick would be silly based on a need. The WR and OL positions are said to be deep and we have some day 2 and 3 picks to stock up if need be. If the scenario the OP put out there happens meaning the WR's we wanted and the OT we wanted are gone then we need to move on and either trade the pick if we get good return or take the next best player available that's not a DL

 

True that. But heres another scenario. What if we cant trade down. I find it impossible for all the OT and WR's to be gone by our 11th pick.  Who do we take if the OT's. Of the 3 wr's Ruggs, Jeudy, Lamb, are we then forced to take one?       

[Embrace the Suck]

21 hours ago, varjet said:

Fant was the insurance policy that Beachum was going to be.  

So get Williams or Peters and not have to draft OL for need.

If Simmons is there he is the BPA by far.  Do we need him in 2020?  No.  But then in 2021 Mosley could be let go, or use him as a bigger Jamal to play EDGE.  

I don’t think he or Okudah will be there, but if they are those are likely the best value picks.   We just need to make sure that the OL is covered. 

We've been drafting the best value for years.... It's a cop out for making a real choice and being held accountable for it. Any person can look at a board and draft the highest rated* player only to find they don't fit the scheme or perform a task that is actually needed then say "well, he was the value at the time" and yet he wasn't. How did drafting the best player available help the Jets last year, or the year before that, or before that. DLinemen who don't get much done, can't block for the QB or catch his passes, don't bring much value to the table regardless of their perceived value.  Trading L Williams another value seemed to actually help the d as it certainly didn't miss a beat with him gone and now he won't be getting 16 million to do close to nothing other than serve as bloat on the cap. Williams or Peters(38 years old) are just expensive band aids at OT. You want to trade for Williams or sign him and give him big money for multiple years? It's as if some of you don't pay attention to the obvious year after year. Our defense was fine last year with some real coaching for a change. It was the offense that kept us from winning consistently particularly early because they could't block anyone. Of course Sam hooking up with Staten island strippers in seedy NJ strip clubs didn't help either when he caught mono. ?

[Greensleeves]

21 hours ago, Reprisalizer said:

Would have to hear all trade offers first but if you are telling me there is no way to trade down for decent compensation then yes, I would draft Isaiah Simmons at 11.  

Over the remaining WRs - you can get WR in Rds 2 and 3

Over reaching for an OT - The next OT in my opinion is Josh Jones and JD better be damn sure he is 10 year starter at one of the tackle spots to take him over Simmons.  

Over all other Defensive players - dont care about positional need

What I expect to be getting - an perennial pro-bowler and one of the fastest LBs in the game, period.  Roquon Smith, Devin White, Issiah Simmons - the new bread of LB in the NFL.  If JD doesnt think Simmons is that caliber of a player then pass.  Needs to be a game changer - which I think he is.  The only knock to me is that its at a tier 2 position, not a tier 1 (QB, Offensive Weapon, LT, Pass Rusher, CB). 

Not ideal but I know I would be getting a pro-bowler and maybe more so I would do it.  This is not a 1 year rebuild.  

Except we don't need a linebacker and we have a QB that needs weapons and a solid line. Our QB will drive this team. Defense doesn't win in the regular season, scoring points does. Our D is fine - we don't need anyone else aside from another corner later in the draft and hopefully a vet that can play edge. This would be just like Q last year - drafting for a position that is very far from a need and would not move the needle at all. It would also keep us from being better on offense, which is our weakest link right now. 

[Jethead]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not when our LT is George Fant, our RT is Chuma Edoga and our WR1a/1b are Jamison Crowder and Breshad Perriman.  The only defensive player we should take at 11 are Chase Young or Jeff Okudah.  End of list.

If our pick comes up and Simmons is truly the BPA.....trade down and take the top OT or WR on our board.  Or reach a little for the top OT or WR.  It won't be a major reach.  

9 out of the last 10 years.  That's how many times the "best defensive player" has "fallen into our laps".  Please end the cycle.

Agree, and I might even hesitate on Okudah.

[UnknownJetFan]

On 3/28/2020 at 1:41 PM, GeorgeJetson said:

He’s obviously one of the best players in the draft and he and Adams could lead the defense for years to come.

It may not be the best move for the 2020 Jets, but could be the best move for the next 5 years

If he falls to 11 and the Jets draft him would you be upset? I think if he does fall to 11 that would mean the top 4 OTs are off the board:

Top 10 scenario

4 OTs

3 QBs

2 OSU defenders (Chase Young and the CB)

1 Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs or the Auburn/South Carolina dlineman 

 

 

Just think between JD and Gase they will prefer to add to the O to help Darnold and make a better O since that is weaker of a unit than the D is. This just means OT or WR for the O. If somehow no OT or WR was worthy of the 11 spot then some defenders like CB or LBs like Simmons would be there and we would likely take one if them.

[Philc1]

22 hours ago, sheastadiumjetfan said:

Just say no to picking any d at #11

JD gets it

OL or WR or trade down 

Amen

[Jet Nut]

On 3/28/2020 at 5:43 PM, JetBlue said:

LT only weighed 243 llbs.  The way he was used by Clemson is the reason he didn't have more sacks.   LT in college was great all around player, not just a sack artist.  But maybe LT isn't the best example but this kid has game changing ability and in this pass happy era, he could have a similar impact.   

Do you know who LT was, his game?

LT holds the UNC program record for sacks in a season with 16.

His 21 career sacks ranks fifth at Carolina.

Additionally, he is tied for third in career tackles for loss with 33

In an era of college ball where the run game was king and teams hardly passed the ball.  So dont use Clemsons program for his lack of sacks.

They are nothing alike as players 

 

[JetBlue]

On 3/28/2020 at 6:20 PM, Defense Wins Championships said:

Not a good comparison at all JB as Lawrence Taylor recorded 16 sacks during a single season while @ UNC in comparison to Isaiah Simmons who's only recorded 11.0 sacks throughout his 3-4 seasons @ Clemson. 

 

Fair enough.  

[JetBlue]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Do you know who LT was, his game?

LT holds the UNC program record for sacks in a season with 16.

His 21 career sacks ranks fifth at Carolina.

Additionally, he is tied for third in career tackles for loss with 33

In an era of college ball where the run game was king and teams hardly passed the ball.  So dont use Simmons program for his lack of sacks.

They are nothing alike as players 

 

Yep, I definitely made a mistake with that comparison.  I was thinking about the fact the were freaks and could do it all and who could possibly redefine the position as LT did, but  I shouldn't have used him as a comparison. 

[Jet Nut]

On 3/28/2020 at 6:31 PM, RobR said:

LT sucked against the run, that's why teams would run straight at him.

 

On 3/28/2020 at 6:38 PM, RobR said:

Did you even watch him play? Every team knew the best way to neutralize LT was to run straight at him. You also said he was great in pass coverage but I don't remember him breaking up many passes. He was strictly an amazing passrusher but lacked in every other category. That's why I called you out for comparing him to Simmons because they are nothing alike.

 

On 3/28/2020 at 6:50 PM, RobR said:

Yup, nothing like watching LT get blown up at the POA screams what a great run defender he was.

 

On 3/28/2020 at 9:11 PM, RobR said:

I'm not denying his greatness but it's no secret that his game was based solely off of rushing the passer. No one, and I mean absolutely no one talks about how good LT was dropping in coverage or stopping the run because he wasn't. The only reason we are even talking about him is because jetblue compared him to Simmons, which is completely wrong because they are nothing alike.

And Reggie White was much better than LT. Not even close because he had no holes in his game and was beyond freakish. People keep posting that one play from Kris Jenkins blowing up the center but Reggie White did that with regularity. 

 

Just wow.

You should walk out of this conversation.  I'm embarrassed for you.

[GREENBEAN]

22 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

 

 

There were one or two games (one was vs the Rams and HOF Jackie Slater) were they ran right at LT with the massive T, the pulling Guard, and the diving Fullback and LT got ate up at the point of attack.

That started this whole narrative that he was weak against the run.

 

It's wrong.  

It took an entire gameplay to run at LT.

Then when you ran away from him he ran down your back like a lion vs a zebra. 

 

LT was a pure MONSTER.

I watched just about every game he ever played and no one could convince me that he wasn't the most dominant football player (not just defense) I ever saw. 

I recently got into a discussion about the greatest player of all time with a Giants fan. I am partial to Earl Campbell or Barry Sanders and he was obviously on the LT train. We went around a bit about stats and games they overtook etc. 

The truth is I looked into the specifics a bit more after that conversation and I was wrong. As much as I still love and believe in the players I was touting that day, LT was a player not since seen again. He literally developed that arm swing to knock the ball out of the ball carriers hand for a fumble over a tackle. We see that as standard in todays NFL. That in addition to absolutely dominating games plans that were designed to avoid or neutralize him. 

I hated LT and all my giants fan friends and family who rubbed him in may face every five minutes of my childhood. And he almost hit me with his car when the Giants used to practice at Fairleigh Dickinson university. He didn't even apologize. He just got out and said "exciting morning huh kid?"  lol  

But looking back that guy was completely unreal. On cocaine most of the time, but probably the greatest player of all time. 

[CanadaSteve]

On 3/29/2020 at 8:21 AM, Snell41 said:

LT was the greatest defender of all time. If Simmons’ talent was comparable to LT he’d be the unquestioned #1 overall pick without a doubt. There’s no comparison at all.
 

Well, that pretty much ends the conversation right there.  IF Simmons was that good, he would be considered well over Chase Young.  He's not.  There you have it.

Lets move on.

[#27TheDominator]

23 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Him and Reggie White. Reggie White was just as dominant in the trenches. And Ray Lewis was the best of my generation hands down. 

If Ray Lewis and LT were on the draft board at the same time, you'd give up the next 3 year's first rounders to get LT.

[Defense Wins Championships]

21 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If Ray Lewis and LT were on the draft board at the same time, you'd give up the next 3 year's first rounders to get LT.

Career highlights and awards

2× Super Bowl champion (XXXV, XLVII) Super Bowl MVP (XXXV) 13× Pro Bowl (1997–2001, 2003, 2004, 2006–2011) 7× First-team All-Pro (1999–2001, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009) 3× Second-team All-Pro (1997, 1998, 2010) 2× NFL Defensive Player of Year (2000, 2003) Nope. Not giving up 3 1st rounders instead of just drafting Ray Lewis and another 2 more defensive first rounders to surround him with such as an Ed Reed and Jamal Adams FS/SS duo.  Ray Lewis + Ed Reed/Jamal Adams over Lawrence Tayor any game of the week (and yes, I agree he's the greatest to ever play the game).  If you wouldn't take Ray Lewis/Ed Reed/Jamal Adams over LT you're nuts - those three combined win more SB's than LT's two.

[JustInFudge]

The very thought of taking D at #11 made me so upset, I've avoided opening this thread for days and I refuse to read a single post.

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Career highlights and awards

2× Super Bowl champion (XXXV, XLVII) Super Bowl MVP (XXXV) 13× Pro Bowl (1997–2001, 2003, 2004, 2006–2011) 7× First-team All-Pro (1999–2001, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009) 3× Second-team All-Pro (1997, 1998, 2010) 2× NFL Defensive Player of Year (2000, 2003) Nope. Not giving up 3 1st rounders instead of just drafting Ray Lewis and another 2 more defensive first rounders to surround him with such as an Ed Reed and Jamal Adams FS/SS duo.  Ray Lewis + Ed Reed/Jamal Adams over Lawrence Tayor any game of the week (and yes, I agree he's the greatest to ever play the game).  If you wouldn't take Ray Lewis/Ed Reed/Jamal Adams over LT you're nuts - those three combined win more SB's than LT's two.

Is this supposed to mean something?  It doesn't.  What makes you think you are drafting Ed Reed and Jamal Adams?  Based on this criteria, I am nuts.  OTOH, I know you posting history which leads me to believe that I am on pretty firm ground.  If LT were Drew Bledsoe, Lewis is Rick Mirer.

[Defense Wins Championships]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Is this supposed to mean something?  It doesn't.  What makes you think you are drafting Ed Reed and Jamal Adams?  Based on this criteria, I am nuts.  OTOH, I know you posting history which leads me to believe that I am on pretty firm ground.  If LT were Drew Bledsoe, Lewis is Rick Mirer.

You're the one who said Ray Lewis and 3 1st rounders but then disagree with my assessment. 

But yet both led their defenses to 2 SB Titles...

[nycdan]

Didn't read most of this thread but here's my general take...

I would be sort of disappointed if the board fell such that we had to make this pick, but I wouldn't be upset with making the pick if that's how it played out.  In other words, if he's still on the board but all four OTs (or whichever JD thinks are franchise-potential) are gone, then yeah, you can make this pick and get a dominant player at a premium position.

It is interesting to consider how he and Adams would be used, but I have no concerns at all that Gregg Williams could figure it out to the benefit of the Jets.

[JohnnyLV]

On 3/28/2020 at 10:41 AM, GeorgeJetson said:

He’s obviously one of the best players in the draft and he and Adams could lead the defense for years to come.

It may not be the best move for the 2020 Jets, but could be the best move for the next 5 years

If he falls to 11 and the Jets draft him would you be upset? I think if he does fall to 11 that would mean the top 4 OTs are off the board:

Top 10 scenario

4 OTs

3 QBs

2 OSU defenders (Chase Young and the CB)

1 Lamb/Jeudy/Ruggs or the Auburn/South Carolina dlineman 

 

 

Gil Brandt does not think he will translate well to the NFL which is enough for me to say no. Gil thinks he is more of a late first round type guy