How would you feel if the Jets did NOT get one of these Top 10 WRs?

[nyjbuddy]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I’m surprised Claypool isn’t getting rated higher.  He’s going to cause matchup problems at the next level

After the combine he was projected to go in the late 1st round.  That might have just been post-combine hype due to the numbers he posted.  He could still go in the late first or early 2nd, but I think it'll be either late 2nd round or late 3rd round.  The types of teams drafting at those positions have the luxury of taking Claypool, giving him time to develop and alter their offense to take advantage of this qualities.  Those teams are looking for depth players with long term payoffs rather than immediate impact starters.

[nyjbuddy]

4 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Every player has weaknesses.   You look at the player and have to conclude if you think he can or will improve.   Obviously speed is not something you can overcome, either you have it or you don't but you can get better at release at the LOS and also route running.  You mention AGG being too slow but I don't think he is slower than Pittman and we have no idea about Higgins who choose not to run.   AGG is a BEAST, and catches everything that comes into his catch radius (which is huge).  Quez Watkins is not just a deep threat and does have great quickness.  I didn't mention Jonathan Hightower but he is another receiver with quickness and speed.    As much as I want a receiver drafted within the first 4 picks, if we came away with any combination of Watkins, AGG, Edwards, Duvernay etc.  I would be fine with it.   Guys like Joe Reed in the later rounds could also become developmental steals while contributing on special teams. 

I don't disagree that there isn't quality wide receivers later in the draft, but do they fit the type of wide receiver that Douglas and Gase want?  Wide receivers tend to be grouped together but each player has certain attributes which force them into certain roles or positions.  The wide receivers at the top of the draft show diverse qualities which will allow them to succeed in multiple roles and positions on the field.  Grouping the wide receivers altogether is like grouping all the offensive linemen together.  But certain lineman have limitations which prevent them from playing different positions, different schemes, different roles within an offense.  The same applies to the wide receivers.  Some of the players mentioned previously project out to only fit one position or role.  This limits what the offense can do.  

Gase definitely has a type when it comes to wide receiver.  Here are the wide receivers he's acquired and/or have played a significant role in his offense.  Speed on the outsides.  No one slower than 4.45.  X receiver a little bigger both height and weight; need to strength to beat press coverage.  Y receiver needs to be a little faster to be that deep threat.  Perriman actually could play both the x and y roles in the offense which gives the Jets the opportunity to find an x or y type.  Recently Gase has targeted faster slot receivers but that hasn't always been the case.  These guys tend to be smaller but quick short area speed.  Landry is the outlier here but Gase never chose Landry.

Position	Name	Height	Weight	40	10-yard
x	Demaryius Thomas	6'3"	224	4.38
x	Devante Parker	6'2"	209	4.45	1.51
x	Cody Latimer	6'2.5"	215	4.44	1.55
x	Bershad Perriman	6'2"	212	4.26	1.51
x	Quincy Enunwa	6'2"	225	4.41	1.57
z	Kenny Stills	6'0"	194	4.38	1.54
z	Emmanuel Sanders	5'11"	186	4.41	1.49
z	Robby Anderson	6'3"	187	4.36	1.59
z	Vyncint Smith	6'2"	190	4.36
s	Isaiah Ford	6'1"	194	4.61	1.59
s	Jakeem Grant	5'6"	165	4.37	1.54
s	Jarvis Landry	5'10"	205	4.65	1.73
s	Braxton Berrios	5'7"	184	4.44	1.58
s	Jamison Crowder	5'7"	185	4.46
s	Albert Wilson	5'8"	202	4.43	1.54
s	Danny Amendola	5'9"	183	4.58	1.56

 Now for the comparisons:

Position	Name	Height	Weight	40
Too slow	Gabriel Davis	6'3"	212	4.54
x	Chase Claypool	6'4"	229	4.42
Too slow	Antonio Gandy-Golden	6'4"	220	4.6
Possible z	Quez Wilson	6'2"	190	4.35
x	Bryan Edwards	6'3"	215
slow	Van Jefferson	6'2"	197
Plays like an x but none of the attributes of an x	Tyler Johnson	6'1"	206
z	Jonathan Hightower	6'1"	189	4.43
Limited to the slot	Joe Reed	6'0"	224	4.47
z, deep speed but poor route running, stiff	Devin Duvernay	5'11"	202	4.39

And thats just to get in the door for Gase.  Next you would have do an evaluation of skills that fit into each position and some of these guys don't fit.

Michael Pittman is an interesting case.  He is too slow to make it onto the Gase list but he is an anomaly.  He has the body type of an x receiver, plays like a z receiver with the short area quickness of a slot.  Its why he has been mocked everywhere from 1st round to 3rd round.  He doesn't check all the boxes in any of the positions but checks most boxes in every position.  Sort of jack of all trades master of none.  He fits into the mold of Michael Thomas as they share a lot of the same attributes coming out of college.  Pittman is going to face a lot of the same challenges Thomas did with learning to use certain skills at certain times depending on where they line up.  Thomas is a master at this as he can exploit defenses from every position whether its on the outsides or in the slot.  These types of players have a hard time succeeding as they cannot rely on an elite attribute to get by.  Like Thomas, Pittman has the bloodlines that may have taught him the nuances of playing each position, which allows them to succeed without being elite at any one thing.  With Pittman the offensive scheme would have to be totally changed the same way it has changed in New Orleans in order for him to shine.  This also means that he would spend some time in the slot removing Crowder from the field; the Jets only currently known stable and productive receiver.

 

[JetBlue]

26 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

I don't disagree that there isn't quality wide receivers later in the draft, but do they fit the type of wide receiver that Douglas and Gase want?  Wide receivers tend to be grouped together but each player has certain attributes which force them into certain roles or positions.  The wide receivers at the top of the draft show diverse qualities which will allow them to succeed in multiple roles and positions on the field.  Grouping the wide receivers altogether is like grouping all the offensive linemen together.  But certain lineman have limitations which prevent them from playing different positions, different schemes, different roles within an offense.  The same applies to the wide receivers.  Some of the players mentioned previously project out to only fit one position or role.  This limits what the offense can do.  

Gase definitely has a type when it comes to wide receiver.  Here are the wide receivers he's acquired and/or have played a significant role in his offense.  Speed on the outsides.  No one slower than 4.45.  X receiver a little bigger both height and weight; need to strength to beat press coverage.  Y receiver needs to be a little faster to be that deep threat.  Perriman actually could play both the x and y roles in the offense which gives the Jets the opportunity to find an x or y type.  Recently Gase has targeted faster slot receivers but that hasn't always been the case.  These guys tend to be smaller but quick short area speed.  Landry is the outlier here but Gase never chose Landry.

Position	Name	Height	Weight	40	10-yard
x	Demaryius Thomas	6'3"	224	4.38
x	Devante Parker	6'2"	209	4.45	1.51
x	Cody Latimer	6'2.5"	215	4.44	1.55
x	Bershad Perriman	6'2"	212	4.26	1.51
x	Quincy Enunwa	6'2"	225	4.41	1.57
z	Kenny Stills	6'0"	194	4.38	1.54
z	Emmanuel Sanders	5'11"	186	4.41	1.49
z	Robby Anderson	6'3"	187	4.36	1.59
z	Vyncint Smith	6'2"	190	4.36
s	Isaiah Ford	6'1"	194	4.61	1.59
s	Jakeem Grant	5'6"	165	4.37	1.54
s	Jarvis Landry	5'10"	205	4.65	1.73
s	Braxton Berrios	5'7"	184	4.44	1.58
s	Jamison Crowder	5'7"	185	4.46
s	Albert Wilson	5'8"	202	4.43	1.54
s	Danny Amendola	5'9"	183	4.58	1.56

 Now for the comparisons:

Position	Name	Height	Weight	40
Too slow	Gabriel Davis	6'3"	212	4.54
x	Chase Claypool	6'4"	229	4.42
Too slow	Antonio Gandy-Golden	6'4"	220	4.6
Possible z	Quez Wilson	6'2"	190	4.35
x	Bryan Edwards	6'3"	215
slow	Van Jefferson	6'2"	197
Plays like an x but none of the attributes of an x	Tyler Johnson	6'1"	206
z	Jonathan Hightower	6'1"	189	4.43
Limited to the slot	Joe Reed	6'0"	224	4.47
z, deep speed but poor route running, stiff	Devin Duvernay	5'11"	202	4.39

And thats just to get in the door for Gase.  Next you would have do an evaluation of skills that fit into each position and some of these guys don't fit.

Michael Pittman is an interesting case.  He is too slow to make it onto the Gase list but he is an anomaly.  He has the body type of an x receiver, plays like a z receiver with the short area quickness of a slot.  Its why he has been mocked everywhere from 1st round to 3rd round.  He doesn't check all the boxes in any of the positions but checks most boxes in every position.  Sort of jack of all trades master of none.  He fits into the mold of Michael Thomas as they share a lot of the same attributes coming out of college.  Pittman is going to face a lot of the same challenges Thomas did with learning to use certain skills at certain times depending on where they line up.  Thomas is a master at this as he can exploit defenses from every position whether its on the outsides or in the slot.  These types of players have a hard time succeeding as they cannot rely on an elite attribute to get by.  Like Thomas, Pittman has the bloodlines that may have taught him the nuances of playing each position, which allows them to succeed without being elite at any one thing.  With Pittman the offensive scheme would have to be totally changed the same way it has changed in New Orleans in order for him to shine.  This also means that he would spend some time in the slot removing Crowder from the field; the Jets only currently known stable and productive receiver.

 

Nice analysis but I think you are way too focused on numbers and 40 times.  I am not saying they aren't important but sometimes can be misleading and or overrated.  As I am sure you know, there is something called GAME SPEED as opposed to 40 times in shorts.   If you have watched AGG play there is NO WAY you would conclude he is too slow.  Also this guys catch radius IS INSANE.  Every quarterback wants a receiver he can just through the ball in the vicinity of and have a good chance of it being caught. No offense but I have to wonder how many of these guys have you actually watched play.   I mean I saw Devin Duvernay slice up top rated secondary of LSU with projected first round picks Kristian Fulton and Grant Delpit.  Same thing with several other players you have listed.  They went up against top college secondaries and dominated.  I truly believe that most if not all the player you listed will find a home in the NFL and depending who drafts them, what system, and players in front of them on the depth chart, will turn out to be good players.    Also when it comes to route running and other technical aspects, players can improve, they are far from finished products.    

[nyjbuddy]

20 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Nice analysis but I think you are way too focused on numbers and 40 times.  I am not saying they aren't important but sometimes can be misleading and or overrated.  As I am sure you know, there is something called GAME SPEED as opposed to 40 times in shorts.   If you have watched AGG play there is NO WAY you would conclude he is too slow.  Also this guys catch radius IS INSANE.  Every quarterback wants a receiver he can just through the ball in the vicinity of and have a good chance of it being caught. No offense but I have to wonder how many of these guys have you actually watched play.   I mean I saw Devin Duvernay slice up top rated secondary of LSU with projected first round picks Kristian Fulton and Grant Delpit.  Same thing with several other players you have listed.  They went up against top college secondaries and dominated.  I truly believe that most if not all the player you listed will find a home in the NFL and depending who drafts them, what system, and players in front of them on the depth chart, will turn out to be good players.    Also when it comes to route running and other technical aspects, players can improve, they are far from finished products.    

I admit I have only watched a couple of AGG games (Auburn game and BYU game) and a few of his highlight videos.  But read some of his draft profiles:

"Initial acceleration at the line but also at the catch point is only marginal. His flying 20 has some kick to it but generally speaking he's not going to be dusting corners unless he's able to force a misstep with hand fighting. Hard angle breaks gear down and open window for DBs to jump across his face."

"Gandy-Golden's long speed and consistency creating separation on his route stems will water down his viability as a volume receiver but he's a possession type who should carve out a productive niche in an NFL WR group."

"With that said, his lack of a translatable skill set to separating at the next level is concerning."

"Separation quickness on horizontal cuts is underwhelming. Isn’t very elusive, twitchy or sudden."

"Gandy-Golden has little to no experience with a complex route tree, nor does he have the physical profile that lends itself to becoming a plus route runner. While players can survive by being experts in the vertical third of routes, Gandy-Golden isn't running away from NFL athletes, and even with his near-elite track/adjust and catch radius abilities, will struggle to find such success with NFL CBs unless he improves his releases. Gandy-Golden is a fringe development prospect who may struggle to stick in camp."

"He is somewhat a one trick pony at this point in his football career. Deep routes and jump balls are the name of his game. AGG’s route tree development leaves a lot to be desired. He won a lot against lesser opponents with his ability to out jump and muscle smaller defenders. He will struggle with the NFL’s physical cornerbacks."

"But don't expect the smaller-school product to get behind those defensive backs. Gandy-Golden is considerably slower than the other wide receivers in this year's draft class, evident in a 4.6-second 40-yard dash time at the NFL Combine. Some experts have questioned whether Gandy-Golden is even fast enough to play in the NFL."

 

I agree some of these players will find a team to play for and if they find the right system they may be good.  I just don't feel the Jets are the right system for a lot of these players.  The theme of the offseason with the Jets has been explosiveness and speed.

On resigning Anderson:

"Robby Anderson has a skillset a lot of teams are looking for," Douglas said. "I think he can run by anybody."

"It's great," Gase said, "to have a guy that can go over the top, that can really stretch the field, cause the safety to lean one way, make sure that they have some two-high looks, which just opens up some lanes for the running back. Anytime you add speed to your team, that's a positive thing for your offense."

On the WRs in the draft:

"There's a lot of 'em," Gase said. "The wide receiver group is a large group. There's a lot of speed, there's a lot of guys with experience, there's a lot of guys that can do a lot of good things."

Douglas on what they are looking for:

"Well, I think you saw that in the two teams [Chiefs and 49ers] that competed in the Super Bowl this year, how many explosive players they had on both sides of the ball," Douglas said. "Look, I mean, everybody's trying to get bigger, faster, smarter, tougher. So we need explosive guys. We need explosive dynamic playmakers."

"Speed creates pressure and pressure bursts pipes," Douglas told newyorkjets.com's Eric Allen at the NFL Scouting Combine. "When you have one guy that can run by you, you're worried. When you have three guys, that really puts teams in a bind. When you have that, you can have three-point shooters. You don't have to worry about the 12-, 15-play drives. You can throw in a couple one-, two- or three-play drives. Now you're cooking."