Why OT needs to be the pick at 11. Fant and Edoga may not be the guys.

[Jet Nut]

I'm just finding it hard to believe that the plan has been to spend $30 mil on a player, $13 guaranteed.  Then draft another player at the same position, play the rookie OT and pass on a WR who could help at a position of need instead of one of the two new OTs sitting on the bench

[Beerfish]

31 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Serious question - What if Douglas likes Lucas Niang or Josh Jones better than someone like Andrew Thomas or Mekhi Becton?

Then you take him at 11.

Also if it is Gase that wants a certain type of oline then Douglas needs to tell him to F off.

 

[jetstream23]

20 minutes ago, RobR said:

Not directed at me, but if he likes Niang and Jones over a Becton, or even Thomas we have the wrong GM. 

It's directed at everyone, and I'm just speculating.  But I'm also not speculating in absolute terms.  If he has Becton at 13 and Niang at 29, then why take Becton at 11 and not, instead, trade back for Niang (or Jones or whoever)?

Quote

Mekhi Becton, OT, Louisville. Nasty mountain of a man with surprising spryness for a 364-pound behemoth. Very strong initial punch and it’s over for the defender when he locks out his arms. His 7-ft. wingspan is a mixed blessing, and quicker EDGEs will give him issues unless he shortens/quickens his punch. As long as he keeps his weight under control and his knee flexibility remains intact, Becton should be Pro Bowl-caliber for power-oriented teams, a little less so for zone-blocking schemes. 

Josh Jones, OT, Houston. The Jones who dominated in Mobile during the Senior Bowl is a top-20 talent. The Jones who frequently looked uncoordinated and technically raw for the Cougars is a 4th-round talent. Betting on the upside and the late-blooming angle with the hard-working Jones.  

I think Joe D might throw a curve ball at us.  I almost want to place a bet that there could be one of the "big four" OTs on the board at #11.....and he doesn't take him.

[Creepy Lurker]

We need a run stuffing DT at 11. 

[jetstream23]

9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Also if it is Gase that wants a certain type of oline then Douglas needs to tell him to F off.

Yeah...that's not happening.  If Gase wants a certain type of OLinemen and Douglas disagrees then he has the wrong coach.  At this point there can be no wavering and inconsistency between the GM and HC about what types and styles of players they want.

[RobR]

3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

It's directed at everyone, and I'm just speculating.  But I'm also not speculating in absolute terms.  If he has Becton at 13 and Niang at 29, then why take Becton at 11 and not, instead, trade back for Niang (or Jones or whoever)?

 

Because players like Becton are generational type talents and he will be a LT. Sign me up for the next best LT in football instead of the gamble of trading down for projects.

 

[jetstream23]

1 minute ago, RobR said:

Because players like Becton are generational type talents and he will be a LT. Sign me up for the next best LT in football instead of the gamble of trading down for projects.

 

I get it, but I don't think he wants to "settle" for a guy whose style could be misaligned with what the Jets want to do...even if that guy is extremely talented and accomplished.  Quite honestly, it's like Gase and Le'Veon Bell.  No one thinks Bell is untalented....but his style of setting up blocks and hesitating behind the LOS is clearly not a fit for what Gase wants to do.  Great player, wrong style.  That's my only point.  It's like taking a foreign language student on an international trip....Do you take the A+ Japanese student or the B Spanish student?  It helps if you know that the trip is Mexico.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

That's a good breakdown of Fants play but it's from his rookie year when he was an UDFA who played TE in college and never played LT and was in because the 1st and 2nd string LT's went down. I'd like to see a more current breakdown.

+1

I was going to say .  That is from 4 years ago.  There have been 3 full seasons since these games.  Fant was the rawest of the raw coming out.  He may not be plug and play now, but he is probably as far from that as anybody from 2016. 

1 hour ago, TNJet said:

V. Smith and Berrios showed last season the can be decent WRs. We can draft a good one in round 2. Until Sam stays off his back it won't matter who his wide receivers are.

Smith and Berrios?  Those guys are the answer for who made Breshad Perriman look like a top free agent.  Berrios is nothing but a slot, so he isn't playing at the same time as Crowder.  I like Smith, but a big jump for him would be 400 yards.  You want that to start?   

7 minutes ago, RobR said:

Because players like Becton are generational type talents and he will be a LT. Sign me up for the next best LT in football instead of the gamble of trading down for projects.

 

You're that high on Becton?  He is your #1?  He scares me.  I loved him when I first read about him and thought he was going outside the first. Now?  Not as much.  PFF, I know, I know, did a piece on prospects to beware of and this is what they said:  

Quote

T MEKHI BECTON, LOUISVILLE

Buyer beware of: Poor true pass sets

Playing tackle in the NFL is about one thing and one thing only: pass protection. Pass protection, more so than almost any other job in the NFL, is a learned skill. With any skill, practice and repetitions matter. Louisville changed to a much more run- and play-heavy offense this past season. As such, Becton took only 73 true pass sets (plays with no play action, no RPO, with deep drops and at least four pass-rushers) in all of 2019. That’s the fewest of any tackle that made our top five tackle prospects. For comparison, the Falcons' Jake Matthews led all NFL tackles with 390 last year, and the 32nd most at the tackle position was 250. What I’m trying to say is, if Becton starts all season long next year, he’ll get tested around four times more than he did at Louisville last season. 

It’s not only that he doesn’t have the practice, but also that he’s been bad on them. Becton has allowed eight pressures on those 73 sets for a 64.7 pass-blocking grade. Only Washington’s Trey Adams had a worse grade among the tackles that made our top-10. That doesn’t scream first-round type prospect to us.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-buyer-beware-10-2020-nfl-draft-prospects 

Thoughts? 

[Dupe]

I know the off season is hard.  There are great cases for both OT and stud receiver.  JD (mostly) and AG should be the perfect guys to figure who to pick and how to do so strategicly.  You might as well go read a book and come back at the end of April.  I’m sure we’ll have some guys to be excited about. 

[Vader]

Darnold’s ad hoc ability means LT should not be priority right now given the current roster — and WR’s that can adapt to Darnold’s style, escapability and throw on the run should be it

[jetsons]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I want a LT as bad as anyone but we absolutely  do not trade up. If anything you trade back for more picks and takes Jones or Jackson. Screw this burning through draft capital  BS

No TRADES in the 1st rd... Unless the Best 4 OT's are drafted Prior to #11.

[Beerfish]

40 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I get it, but I don't think he wants to "settle" for a guy whose style could be misaligned with what the Jets want to do...even if that guy is extremely talented and accomplished.  Quite honestly, it's like Gase and Le'Veon Bell.  No one thinks Bell is untalented....but his style of setting up blocks and hesitating behind the LOS is clearly not a fit for what Gase wants to do.  Great player, wrong style.  That's my only point.  It's like taking a foreign language student on an international trip....Do you take the A+ Japanese student or the B Spanish student?  It helps if you know that the trip is Mexico.

Draft the best players, it is up to the coach to adapt HIS style to the best players.

Coaches come and go so fast that it is foolhardy to 'build for a system'

Gase could get canned in a year or two and then you watch some other team with a 10 year pro bowl OT while you are drafting for the new latest system.

[jetsons]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Draft the best players, it is up to the coach to adapt HIS style to the best players.

Coaches come and go so fast that it is foolhardy to 'build for a system'

Gase could get canned in a year or two and then you watch some other team with a 10 year pro bowl OT while you are drafting for the new latest system.

I agree with that... Only problem is gase has Never shown that ability as a HC. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Serious question - What if Douglas likes Lucas Niang or Josh Jones better than someone like Andrew Thomas or Mekhi Becton?

Great point that many here don't realize. Teams can have vastly different rankings of just about all the players.  We may like Thomas the best and another team may not even have a high first round grade on the guy. 

That's why simply saying we have to take OL when we draft at 11 and have no idea who will fall to us is foolish.

The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that we are taking either OL or WR at 11..... And that's assuming we stay at 11.

[adb280z]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Actually there are plenty of WR in rounds 2,3,4,5.

If one of the top 4 ots are there you have to take one.

I was just mirroring the OPs post.  There are WRs and OTs in 2,3,4,5 take the best WR or OT in the 1st and go the opposite in the 2nd.  The most important thing is to get the pick right.  If you have a strong feeling on OT3 over WR1 then go in that direction but if you think WR2 is a game changing WR then take him.  They desperately need both WRs and OTs.

[adb280z]

3 hours ago, TNJet said:

V. Smith and Berrios showed last season the can be decent WRs. We can draft a good one in round 2. Until Sam stays off his back it won't matter who his wide receivers are.

Decent?  Maybe as WR 6 and 7 on the roster.  They're not close to starter caliber and the Jets are sadly lacking in that.

[David Harris]

Every mock has Browns at 10 taking an OT.  
 

I think the question is do the jets jump up 2 spots to Jacksonville’s spot at 9 to get ahead of Cleveland. Trade chart shows this to be a 100 point jump which is equivalent to the a late 3rd rounder, however the jets second 3rd rounder is pick 79 with chart value of 195 points.

our 4th rounder is 54 pts, our 5th is 27.

maybe trade our first and 3rd for Jacksonville’s first and 4th.  Seems good for us but I don’t know if Jax would be down but they could figure that since they don’t want an LT and we and Cleveland prob will take one they’d get the same player they would’ve taken at 9 or at worst lose out on one player if the browns pivot to another position 

[BurnleyJet]

Wide receiver only if all 4 tackles have been taken. This draft is loaded at Receiver, so if we take a tackle at 11, lots of options available in round #2.

NFL importance:-

QB.

LT.

Edge.

Corner.

Receiver.

The rest.

[Snell41]

I want the shiny new toy, I really do. But a great QB will make ok WR’s look very good. Aaron Rogers took decent guys like Donald Driver, Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson and made them damn near elite. None of them were top tier WR’s. We made an investment in Darnold with expectations he is a great QB. So get him time in the pocket to show us.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[rangerous]

the thing is the 11 pick isn't so high that the jets must pick this guy or that guy.  they could go wr or ot.  a lot of the information being put out doesn't even think the top 4 ot's are really nfl ready, at least at left tackle.  so maybe there are guys in the later rounds that will do just as well.

we'll see.  i am hoping they pick a guy who will have an impact from day 1.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, rangerous said:

the thing is the 11 pick isn't so high that the jets must pick this guy or that guy.  they could go wr or ot.  a lot of the information being put out doesn't even think the top 4 ot's are really nfl ready, at least at left tackle.  so maybe there are guys in the later rounds that will do just as well.

we'll see.  i am hoping they pick a guy who will have an impact from day 1.

The interesting thing is if you read enough rankings of top players regardless of position, Jeudy/lamb are ahead of most of the tackles, and ruggs is right there with those tackles.  Going bpa strictly at 11 would mean taking Jeudy above all these guys.

[rangerous]

22 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

The interesting thing is if you read enough rankings of top players regardless of position, Jeudy/lamb are ahead of most of the tackles, and ruggs is right there with those tackles.  Going bpa strictly at 11 would mean taking Jeudy above all these guys.

imo the jets should sign a guy like beachum or peters and then use their first pick on a skill position.  these really good receivers seem to have pretty short shelf lives these days.  they can then use the later rounds for oline.

[TheClashFan]

9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Send the me the hottest brunette at the party.....while you guys fight over the 4th prettiest blonde. lol

 

Yeah, but if I go to that party and there's like 20 hot brunettes and just 4 hot blondes...I'm going for that hot blonde since she's the rarer thing.

Oh, and I think the Jets can walk away with two girls (the blonde first, then a brunette)!

 

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

+1

I was going to say .  That is from 4 years ago.  There have been 3 full seasons since these games.  Fant was the rawest of the raw coming out.  He may not be plug and play now, but he is probably as far from that as anybody from 2016. 

Smith and Berrios?  Those guys are the answer for who made Breshad Perriman look like a top free agent.  Berrios is nothing but a slot, so he isn't playing at the same time as Crowder.  I like Smith, but a big jump for him would be 400 yards.  You want that to start?   

You're that high on Becton?  He is your #1?  He scares me.  I loved him when I first read about him and thought he was going outside the first. Now?  Not as much.  PFF, I know, I know, did a piece on prospects to beware of and this is what they said:  

Thoughts? 

Thoughts are there are a lot of really good OT prospects in this draft but there isn't a generational talent.

Whatever that overused term is defined as today.  

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, nico002 said:

Sign Peters and Beachum 

draft Jeudy at 11

draft best OL 2,3,3

This.

 

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Actually there are plenty of WR in rounds 2,3,4,5.

If one of the top 4 ots are there you have to take one.

Tbh there are two ways to go and both look like they will work:

1. Draft a LT at 11 and then draft nothing but WRs in rds 2-3

or

 

2. Draft Jeudy/Lamb at 11.  Sign Peters or Beachum and draft a developmental guy like Cleveland at 48

 

 

Both options work

 

 

 

 

[slats]

12 hours ago, PepPep said:

Get a plug and play OT in THIS draft at all costs. Get one in Rd. 1. Trade up a few spots if that's what it takes to get 'your guy'. Let the guys compete. 

Plenty of WRs to get one in Rd. 2 or 3. 

I could not be a harder "no," when it comes to the idea of trading up in the first round this year. The Jets still have a bunch of holes and, where they don't have holes, some really thin talent. They simply can't afford trading a pick away to move up. They should be looking to move down and adding picks. Wouldn't surprise me if JD has already had preliminary talks with a couple teams about doing exactly that. 

[ElBarrioJets]

People really need to start wrapping their heads around the fact that Edoga is probably starting at RT this year. 

The Jets obviously like him. Gase did everything possible to get in him the lineup last year. And as a 3rd round pick, we should expect him to take over the starting job in his second year. So if you look at things from the Jets, not a fan perspective, they have a LT starter and a cheap RT starter for the next few years. That doesn't totally lock you into taking a T at 11. By all means if the board falls that way and the value lines up, go for it, it's a need. 

If at all possible, trade down. If not, take the top WR and reinforce the OL with the 2nd/3rd rounders. 

[jamesr]

1 hour ago, TheClashFan said:

Yeah, but if I go to that party and there's like 20 hot brunettes and just 4 hot blondes...I'm going for that hot blonde since she's the rarer thing.

Oh, and I think the Jets can walk away with two girls (the blonde first, then a brunette)!

 

... and this is how your stud QB ends up with mono, ladies and gentlemen.  

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, PepPep said:

Because we don't have one. 

Right now we have Fant and Edoga as our only OTs.  I have ZERO faith in either one of these guys as future starters. Which is why I'm not surprised JD signed Fant to a contract with an out in a year. 

Here's a film breakdown of Fant. He is FAR from a finished product.

Get a plug and play OT in THIS draft at all costs. Get one in Rd. 1. Trade up a few spots if that's what it takes to get 'your guy'. Let the guys compete. 

Plenty of WRs to get one in Rd. 2 or 3. 

That is all. 

Its a 3 year old video.

Its a meaningless breakdown today

[68JET11]

1 hour ago, TheClashFan said:

Yeah, but if I go to that party and there's like 20 hot brunettes and just 4 hot blondes...I'm going for that hot blonde since she's the rarer thing.

Oh, and I think the Jets can walk away with two girls (the blonde first, then a brunette)!

 

Blondes are nice, but if the brunette has blue eyes, that's the pick any day of the week.... lol...

[RobR]

10 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 No one thinks Bell is untalented....but his style of setting up blocks and hesitating behind the LOS is clearly not a fit for what Gase wants to do.  Great player, wrong style.

Define no one and great player. I think you left out the word was.

[RobR]

10 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I get it, but I don't think he wants to "settle" for a guy whose style could be misaligned with what the Jets want to do...even if that guy is extremely talented and accomplished.  Quite honestly, it's like Gase and Le'Veon Bell.  No one thinks Bell is untalented....but his style of setting up blocks and hesitating behind the LOS is clearly not a fit for what Gase wants to do.  Great player, wrong style.  That's my only point.  It's like taking a foreign language student on an international trip....Do you take the A+ Japanese student or the B Spanish student?  It helps if you know that the trip is Mexico.

I think you're overthinking this whole idea of pigeonholing a player into a certain scheme. A player like Becton and Wirfs for example are players that are scheme diverse.

It's apparent the Jets want long and athletic types, so tell me how does Becton not fit that profile? He's long and athletic. Just because he's heavier should not preclude him from being what the Jets are looking for.

[RobR]

10 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Thoughts? 

Stop taking PFF as gospel.

[82nd Airborne]

I like this reply on YouTube:

Livingthat Twelvelife2 years ago

Hey Coleman, it's nice to see someone actually looking at the film and taking Fant's lack of experience into context, rather than just blasting him for his mistakes and technique. For the record, I wholeheartedly agree that he could be the franchise LT if he continues to grow and don't regress. Great video, keep up the good work!