Why OT needs to be the pick at 11. Fant and Edoga may not be the guys.

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, JetBlue said:

It seems that one of Jeudy, Lamb and Ruggs should be available at 11 (if not all three)  If that is the case, most likely the best available offensive player will be a wide receiver.  

From what I understand the Jets might prefer Ruggs, Jeudy and Lamb in that order.  Some guys who know a lot more about WRs than I do can comment about the differences but I've heard that Gase prizes speed and RAC....which would lead him to Ruggs and maybe Jeudy as a precise route runner vs. Lamb who is a great but is a more capable all-around WR.  Maybe @Paradis can give his take.

[JetBlue]

7 hours ago, Jethead said:

As of 1:30 pm today, I may feel differently tomorrow, I take Ruggs at 11, JD's favorite OT in round 2 and Ayers and Claypool in round 3.

 

As of 8:54pm est, I would love that scenario  .  We might need to take Claypool with the first of our 3rd round picks assuming he even drops that far.  

[nyjbuddy]

Not against taking a tackle at 11 but just came across this article and thought it was interesting.  It's a couple years old and I wonder if the trends have continued.

APR. 26, 2018, AT 11:34 AM

The ‘Blind Side’ Era is Over At The NFL Draft
By Ty Schalter

Quenton Nelson looks exactly like a franchise-cornerstone left tackle: Standing 6 foot 5, 325 pounds, Nelson is “built like a bank safe” and blessed with the athleticism and aggressiveness to be a perennial All-Pro. The quarterback’s protector is often called the second-most-important offensive position, so it’s no wonder that Nelson’s in the mix to be the first non-quarterback to be picked in this year’s draft.

But one thing does separate Nelson from other highly coveted tackles on draft day: He isn’t a tackle. He’s a guard.

How players at one position in the NFL’s otherwise-anonymous quintet of trench warriors became some of American sports’ most-prized athletes is a story so well-known it was turned into a best-selling book, and even a movie: The uniquely gifted protectors of “The Blind Side” emerged in the 1990s to stop the pass-rushing outside linebackers of the 1980s, like eight-time All-Pro Lawrence Taylor.

For years afterward, teams trying to land the next Orlando Pace or Walter Jones had no qualms about throwing high draft picks at top tackles. Even less-than-perfect tackle prospects like Michigan’s Jake Long and Central Michigan’s Eric Fisher were deemed “safe” picks at No. 1 overall — because unlike quarterbacks, who are unlikely to play another position well, if those tackles fail to establish themselves as quality starters, teams have the option of kicking them inside to guard.

As recently as 2012, guards were still afterthoughts, not worthy of the draft-value (and contract) investment that comes with a high first-round selection. Outstanding guard prospect David DeCastro, whom many evaluators deemed worthy of at least a top-10 pick, didn’t come off the board until No. 24 that year.

In the 32-team era,1 62 tackles have been drafted in the first round compared to just 14 guards. On average, those tackles were taken with the 14th pick, while the average guard went between 23 and 24. In fact, after “The Blind Side” was released in September 2006, NFL teams went on a four-year tackle binge, drafting 19 first-round tackles compared to just three centers and two guards.

Last season, though, the market for elite tackles seemed to dry up. Only two — Garett Bolles and Ryan Ramczyk — went in the first round, and both were picked in the back end of the round (20 and 32 respectively). After Alabama’s Cam Robinson was taken with the second pick of the second round, which was lower than most expected, no tackles were taken until pick No. 85. To get a sense of how high in the draft tackles have tended to go over time, we can quantify pick position using Jimmy Johnson’s draft-pick value chart, which assigns a point value to every pick in the draft based solely on how early the pick is, not on which player is taken. Last year, the picks used on tackles in rounds one and two were worth a total of 2000 points, the lowest sum since at least 1994. By comparison, the picks used on the six tackles taken in the first two rounds in 2013 were worth more than 10,000 points.

The trend of devaluing tackles seems certain to continue in the 2018 NFL draft. After Nelson, tackle Mike McGlinchey (average mock draft position: 22.2) is the next offensive lineman projected to go. But then it’s a run of interior linemen: Center James Daniels (28.5) and guards Isaiah Wynn (28.8) and Will Hernandez (28.9) are all set to be drafted ahead of the only other tackle who’s projected to be taken on the draft’s first night, Kolton Miller (31.2).

If Miller doesn’t make it into the first round, it’ll be the first time that fewer than two tackles have been drafted in any first round since “The Blind Side” was released, and it would match the 2005-2006 nadir for high-pick tackles — only three tackles were taken in the first round in each of those two back-to-back draft classes.

It’s not like NFL teams suddenly decided that the offensive line isn’t important, it’s more that the value pendulum is shifting away from left tackle. If Nelson goes as high as he’s expected to, he’ll be the third guard picked in the top 10 in the last six seasons (the fourth if you count Washington’s Brandon Scherff, who was drafted as a tackle but has since become a Pro Bowl guard2). Before Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper went in the top 10 in 2013, no guard had been picked that high in a dozen years.3
But it’s not just draft capital that teams are investing in a previously neglected position.

This spring, All-Pro guard Andrew Norwell signed a five-year, $66.5 million unrestricted free-agency deal that briefly made him the NFL’s highest-paid offensive lineman. Though former New England Patriots left tackle Nate Solder’s four-year, $62 million contract with the New York Giants topped Norwell’s $13.3 million average annual value, Norwell remains No. 2.

In 2016, the five biggest free-agency deals given to offensive linemen went to left tackles. In 2017, half of the eight offensive-line contracts worth at least $10 million per year went to left tackles — but the other half went to three guards and a center. In 2018, Solder’s was the only one of the top six offensive-line deals that did not go to a guard or center.

So why the sudden change? For starters, the evolution of the left tackle was a response to a defensive revolution that’s been over for a long time; Taylor’s 10-season Pro Bowl streak ended 27 years ago. From Dick LeBeau’s zone blitzes to Jim Johnson’s and Jim Schwartz’s aggressive 4-3s, Wade Phillips’s one-gap 3-4 schemes to Bill Belichick and Matt Patricia’s hybrid/multiple fronts attack, defensive coordinators have as many different ways to send pass rushers at quarterbacks as there are gaps between offensive linemen.

According to ESPN Stats & Information Group, 36 percent of the 1,082.5 sacks by front-seven players in 2017 were registered by a player lined up at right defensive end or right outside linebacker. That means even a Hall of Fame left tackle can’t possibly help with at least two-thirds of the pressure that defenses are generating.

Then there’s the fact that quarterbacks don’t really have a “blind side” anymore. The heavy use of shotgun formation in today’s NFL allows quarterbacks to keep the whole defense in front of them. According to ESPN Stats & Info, just 13,319 of 32,436 offensive plays (41 percent) were run from under center in 2017– and of those, a quarterback dropped back to pass on just 4,201 plays (13 percent of all offensive plays).

The average left tackle, then, will only be called upon to keep his quarterback clean during a traditional dropback about 1/8th of the time he’s on the field.

But don’t tell Nelson, Wynn, Hernandez or any of the other guards set to be drafted this weekend that the value of offensive linemen has crashed. They’re about to prove that the NFL has finally figured out that anyone who can get keep a pass-rusher from getting to a quarterback is worth an awful lot — regardless of where he’s positioned on the line.

[NYDreamer]

On 3/30/2020 at 9:45 PM, adb280z said:

WR needs to be the pick at 11, Crowder, Perriman and Doctson may not be the guys.  Get a plug and play WR in this draft at all costs.  Get one in round 1.  Plenty of OTs to get one in rd 2 or 3.

 

 

Im of the mindset that if you build a solid offensive line and give your QB time to throw to a receiver.  If you don't you are wasting the talent of Ruggs, Jeudy, Lamb because Sam has to get rid of the ball faster.  Robbie did not have that many balls thrown to him because Sam was always being hit or running.  Build that Offensive line and find a WR in the 2nd round.

[RobR]

4 hours ago, nyjbuddy said:

Not against taking a tackle at 11 but just came across this article and thought it was interesting.  It's a couple years old and I wonder if the trends have continued.

APR. 26, 2018, AT 11:34 AM

The ‘Blind Side’ Era is Over At The NFL Draft
By Ty Schalter

Quenton Nelson looks exactly like a franchise-cornerstone left tackle: Standing 6 foot 5, 325 pounds, Nelson is “built like a bank safe” and blessed with the athleticism and aggressiveness to be a perennial All-Pro. The quarterback’s protector is often called the second-most-important offensive position, so it’s no wonder that Nelson’s in the mix to be the first non-quarterback to be picked in this year’s draft.

But one thing does separate Nelson from other highly coveted tackles on draft day: He isn’t a tackle. He’s a guard.

How players at one position in the NFL’s otherwise-anonymous quintet of trench warriors became some of American sports’ most-prized athletes is a story so well-known it was turned into a best-selling book, and even a movie: The uniquely gifted protectors of “The Blind Side” emerged in the 1990s to stop the pass-rushing outside linebackers of the 1980s, like eight-time All-Pro Lawrence Taylor.

For years afterward, teams trying to land the next Orlando Pace or Walter Jones had no qualms about throwing high draft picks at top tackles. Even less-than-perfect tackle prospects like Michigan’s Jake Long and Central Michigan’s Eric Fisher were deemed “safe” picks at No. 1 overall — because unlike quarterbacks, who are unlikely to play another position well, if those tackles fail to establish themselves as quality starters, teams have the option of kicking them inside to guard.

As recently as 2012, guards were still afterthoughts, not worthy of the draft-value (and contract) investment that comes with a high first-round selection. Outstanding guard prospect David DeCastro, whom many evaluators deemed worthy of at least a top-10 pick, didn’t come off the board until No. 24 that year.

In the 32-team era,1 62 tackles have been drafted in the first round compared to just 14 guards. On average, those tackles were taken with the 14th pick, while the average guard went between 23 and 24. In fact, after “The Blind Side” was released in September 2006, NFL teams went on a four-year tackle binge, drafting 19 first-round tackles compared to just three centers and two guards.

Last season, though, the market for elite tackles seemed to dry up. Only two — Garett Bolles and Ryan Ramczyk — went in the first round, and both were picked in the back end of the round (20 and 32 respectively). After Alabama’s Cam Robinson was taken with the second pick of the second round, which was lower than most expected, no tackles were taken until pick No. 85. To get a sense of how high in the draft tackles have tended to go over time, we can quantify pick position using Jimmy Johnson’s draft-pick value chart, which assigns a point value to every pick in the draft based solely on how early the pick is, not on which player is taken. Last year, the picks used on tackles in rounds one and two were worth a total of 2000 points, the lowest sum since at least 1994. By comparison, the picks used on the six tackles taken in the first two rounds in 2013 were worth more than 10,000 points.

The trend of devaluing tackles seems certain to continue in the 2018 NFL draft. After Nelson, tackle Mike McGlinchey (average mock draft position: 22.2) is the next offensive lineman projected to go. But then it’s a run of interior linemen: Center James Daniels (28.5) and guards Isaiah Wynn (28.8) and Will Hernandez (28.9) are all set to be drafted ahead of the only other tackle who’s projected to be taken on the draft’s first night, Kolton Miller (31.2).

If Miller doesn’t make it into the first round, it’ll be the first time that fewer than two tackles have been drafted in any first round since “The Blind Side” was released, and it would match the 2005-2006 nadir for high-pick tackles — only three tackles were taken in the first round in each of those two back-to-back draft classes.

It’s not like NFL teams suddenly decided that the offensive line isn’t important, it’s more that the value pendulum is shifting away from left tackle. If Nelson goes as high as he’s expected to, he’ll be the third guard picked in the top 10 in the last six seasons (the fourth if you count Washington’s Brandon Scherff, who was drafted as a tackle but has since become a Pro Bowl guard2). Before Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper went in the top 10 in 2013, no guard had been picked that high in a dozen years.3
But it’s not just draft capital that teams are investing in a previously neglected position.

This spring, All-Pro guard Andrew Norwell signed a five-year, $66.5 million unrestricted free-agency deal that briefly made him the NFL’s highest-paid offensive lineman. Though former New England Patriots left tackle Nate Solder’s four-year, $62 million contract with the New York Giants topped Norwell’s $13.3 million average annual value, Norwell remains No. 2.

In 2016, the five biggest free-agency deals given to offensive linemen went to left tackles. In 2017, half of the eight offensive-line contracts worth at least $10 million per year went to left tackles — but the other half went to three guards and a center. In 2018, Solder’s was the only one of the top six offensive-line deals that did not go to a guard or center.

So why the sudden change? For starters, the evolution of the left tackle was a response to a defensive revolution that’s been over for a long time; Taylor’s 10-season Pro Bowl streak ended 27 years ago. From Dick LeBeau’s zone blitzes to Jim Johnson’s and Jim Schwartz’s aggressive 4-3s, Wade Phillips’s one-gap 3-4 schemes to Bill Belichick and Matt Patricia’s hybrid/multiple fronts attack, defensive coordinators have as many different ways to send pass rushers at quarterbacks as there are gaps between offensive linemen.

According to ESPN Stats & Information Group, 36 percent of the 1,082.5 sacks by front-seven players in 2017 were registered by a player lined up at right defensive end or right outside linebacker. That means even a Hall of Fame left tackle can’t possibly help with at least two-thirds of the pressure that defenses are generating.

Then there’s the fact that quarterbacks don’t really have a “blind side” anymore. The heavy use of shotgun formation in today’s NFL allows quarterbacks to keep the whole defense in front of them. According to ESPN Stats & Info, just 13,319 of 32,436 offensive plays (41 percent) were run from under center in 2017– and of those, a quarterback dropped back to pass on just 4,201 plays (13 percent of all offensive plays).

The average left tackle, then, will only be called upon to keep his quarterback clean during a traditional dropback about 1/8th of the time he’s on the field.

But don’t tell Nelson, Wynn, Hernandez or any of the other guards set to be drafted this weekend that the value of offensive linemen has crashed. They’re about to prove that the NFL has finally figured out that anyone who can get keep a pass-rusher from getting to a quarterback is worth an awful lot — regardless of where he’s positioned on the line.

Good article but this years draft class is different, at least for OT's. The reason they've been going lower recently is because they weren't in the same class as the ones we're seeing coming out this year. It's also been harder to develop these guys at the collegiate level because of how college offenses have morphed over the years. Some of these prospects have never played in a 3 point stance so the transition to the NFL is steep, and the fact that practices are being reduced doesn't help.

I've been calling this a historic OT class for a long time, the best I've ever seen. This year should be a statistical anomaly when it comes to OT's coming off the board. We'll see soon enough.  

[bealeb319]

WR needs to be the pick at 11, Crowder, Perriman and Doctson may not be the guys.  Get a plug and play WR in this draft at all costs.  Get one in round 1.  Plenty of OTs to get one in rd 2 or 3.
 
 

The cost could be your franchise qb. If we can't protect Sam we can not win games. Elite QBs make weapons not the other way around it is time to protect Sam and see what he is made of.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[nyjbuddy]

50 minutes ago, RobR said:

Good article but this years draft class is different, at least for OT's. The reason they've been going lower recently is because they weren't in the same class as the ones we're seeing coming out this year. It's also been harder to develop these guys at the collegiate level because of how college offenses have morphed over the years. Some of these prospects have never played in a 3 point stance so the transition to the NFL is steep, and the fact that practices are being reduced doesn't help.

I've been calling this a historic OT class for a long time, the best I've ever seen. This year should be a statistical anomaly when it comes to OT's coming off the board. We'll see soon enough.  

I totally agree with this but this is why the article was so intriguing.  Just because a team can find a solid left tackle, will they begin to play less out of the shotgun and more under center?  Will teams start to send pressure only from the right side against the left tackle?  The fact that the players coming out of college are not as well prepared has led to NFL teams changing the way they play.  Rather than trying to fit an unprepared tackle into the scheme, they have built schemes that have limited that exposure.  Taking more snaps from the shotgun limits the risk of having a less than average left tackle.  RPOs and quick screens have also limited the time that lineman have to secure their blocks. The college game has also turned out more pass rusher at various positions.  This has allow defensive play callers to bring pressure from anywhere in the formation, not just from their "pass rusher".  It also does not help that a majority of NFL "pass rushers" line up against the right tackle and not the left.  Left edge defenders: J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Khalil Mack, Justin Houston, Joey Bosa, Vic Beasley, Cameron Wake, Cliff Avril, Markus Golden, Ryan Kerrigan, Carlos Dunlap, Cameron Jordan, Jason Pierre-Paul and Danielle Hunter all line up against the right tackle.

[RobR]

1 hour ago, nyjbuddy said:

I totally agree with this but this is why the article was so intriguing.  Just because a team can find a solid left tackle, will they begin to play less out of the shotgun and more under center?  Will teams start to send pressure only from the right side against the left tackle?  The fact that the players coming out of college are not as well prepared has led to NFL teams changing the way they play.  Rather than trying to fit an unprepared tackle into the scheme, they have built schemes that have limited that exposure.  Taking more snaps from the shotgun limits the risk of having a less than average left tackle.  RPOs and quick screens have also limited the time that lineman have to secure their blocks. The college game has also turned out more pass rusher at various positions.  This has allow defensive play callers to bring pressure from anywhere in the formation, not just from their "pass rusher".  It also does not help that a majority of NFL "pass rushers" line up against the right tackle and not the left.  Left edge defenders: J.J. Watt, Von Miller, Khalil Mack, Justin Houston, Joey Bosa, Vic Beasley, Cameron Wake, Cliff Avril, Markus Golden, Ryan Kerrigan, Carlos Dunlap, Cameron Jordan, Jason Pierre-Paul and Danielle Hunter all line up against the right tackle.

They're changing, no doubt but IMO it shouldn't undervalue a premier offensive tackle regardless of the side he plays. You can only scheme so much and there's a reason why they get paid on the high end of the scale as compared to other positions. Look no further than our 32nd ranked offense and the tackles we were trotting out last year. 

[adb280z]

2 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

The cost could be your franchise qb. If we can't protect Sam we can not win games. Elite QBs make weapons not the other way around it is time to protect Sam and see what he is made of.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

The problem the Patriots had last season was they had no weapons, protection wasn't a problem.  A good offense needs both weapons and protection.  I think they the Jets should take the best WR or OT, I really don't have a preference.  

[ljr]

The problem the Patriots had last season was they had no weapons, protection wasn't a problem.  A good offense needs both weapons and protection.  I think they the Jets should take the best WR or OT, I really don't have a preference.  

Pats have their annual special “no holding penalties allowed to be called” on the offensive line deal with goodell ... that is why protection was not a problem for them.

*




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[adb280z]

On 4/1/2020 at 11:05 PM, ljr said:

 

Pats have their annual special “no holding penalties allowed to be called” on the offensive line deal with goodell ... that is why protection was not a problem for them.

*




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Either way, they weren't successful because they had no weapons.  How many productive offenses are there in todays NFL with WRs as bad as the Jets have had?

[RichardTodd27]

On 4/1/2020 at 10:10 PM, adb280z said:

The problem the Patriots had last season was they had no weapons, protection wasn't a problem.  A good offense needs both weapons and protection.  I think they the Jets should take the best WR or OT, I really don't have a preference.  

Don't forget, last year the Pats lost their Center (Andrews) and their Left Tackle (Wynn/Trent Brown). I think Cannon also had some injury issues.

That offensive line was NOT the same from when they won the Super Bowl the year before. They still had Gronk and Edelman.

But without that elite O-line, they suffered.

 

[NYJ1]

On 3/30/2020 at 9:29 PM, PepPep said:

Because we don't have one. 

Right now we have Fant and Edoga as our only OTs.  I have ZERO faith in either one of these guys as future starters. Which is why I'm not surprised JD signed Fant to a contract with an out in a year. 

Here's a film breakdown of Fant. He is FAR from a finished product.

Get a plug and play OT in THIS draft at all costs. Get one in Rd. 1. Trade up a few spots if that's what it takes to get 'your guy'. Let the guys compete. 

Plenty of WRs to get one in Rd. 2 or 3. 

That is all. 

Actually, the title of this thread says it all. The post isn't necessary. The ONLY way a WR is taken at 11 is if ALL of the top OT's, according to JD's value chart, are gone when the Jets select. This site always goes way overboard inflating the value of anyone the Jets sign. I remember everyone going on a love parade saying absurd things like, "Darron Lee is a STUD" after Mac drafted him in 2016. Lol 

To a much lesser extent, the same thing is happening here. They THINK the OL is fixed when the fact is the OL is anything but fixed. Douglas added depth and stopgaps, NOTHING more. OT should be the pick at 11 if anyone named Wirfs, Wills, or Thomas is still on the board.

[freestater]

On a related note...

 

 

[ljr]

8 hours ago, adb280z said:

Either way, they weren't successful because they had no weapons.  How many non-productive offenses are there in todays NFL with WRs as bad as the Jets have had?

fixed

---

0

---

ps - pats cheat * 

[PepPep]

On 4/1/2020 at 7:10 PM, adb280z said:

The problem the Patriots had last season was they had no weapons, protection wasn't a problem.  A good offense needs both weapons and protection.  I think they the Jets should take the best WR or OT, I really don't have a preference.  

Not true, the Pats O-line was complete decimated by injuries. 

[Jetsfan80]

On 4/1/2020 at 1:28 PM, nyjbuddy said:

They’re about to prove that the NFL has finally figured out that anyone who can get keep a pass-rusher from getting to a quarterback is worth an awful lot — regardless of where he’s positioned on the line.

LT's are left alone on an island, while RT's get TE help often.  That's why they still get paid an awful lot of money to do what they do.  

Even if you want to argue LT has had its value significantly reduced, we still need a RT.  Chuma Edoga isn't going to cut it.  

[sec101row23]

The Jets NEED an infusion of playmakers, and not just some journeyman JAG receivers.  If you want to help your offensive line, get some players that a defensive coordinator actually has to game plan for.  Stacking 8 men in the box every play is going to stress even a very good offensive line.   The notion that you need some elite unit that will give your QB 5 seconds to throw is fantasy stuff.  You need guys who can make plays and beat defenses.  I don’t care who you bring in on the offensive line, if you trot out Perriman, Crowder, Doctson and the like, you aren’t going to move the needle very much.  This league is centered around playmakers.  Until there are some legit game breaking offensive players brought in we will see the same old stagnant offense.   

[TNJet]

49 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The Jets NEED an infusion of playmakers, and not just some journeyman JAG receivers.  If you want to help your offensive line, get some players that a defensive coordinator actually has to game plan for.  Stacking 8 men in the box every play is going to stress even a very good offensive line.   The notion that you need some elite unit that will give your QB 5 seconds to throw is fantasy stuff.  You need guys who can make plays and beat defenses.  I don’t care who you bring in on the offensive line, if you trot out Perriman, Crowder, Doctson and the like, you aren’t going to move the needle very much.  This league is centered around playmakers.  Until there are some legit game breaking offensive players brought in we will see the same old stagnant offense.   

I'll take JAG WRs over JAG Olinemen. We've had JAG Olinemen for a decade almost.

[sec101row23]

17 minutes ago, TNJet said:

I'll take JAG WRs over JAG Olinemen. We've had JAG Olinemen for a decade almost.

I wouldn’t.  If I had to choose between elite playmakers or elite OL, I would take the playmakers.  

[TNJet]

12 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I wouldn’t.  If I had to choose between elite playmakers or elite OL, I would take the playmakers.  

Maccagnan agrees. How many playoff appearances did Mac's teams make??

[Marshmello]

I would go with playmaker's as well

[sec101row23]

20 minutes ago, TNJet said:

Maccagnan agrees. How many playoff appearances did Mac's teams make??

When did Maccagnan have elite playmakers?  You’re just making stuff up at this point.  

[Dcat]

On 3/30/2020 at 9:29 PM, PepPep said:

Because we don't have one. 

Right now we have Fant and Edoga as our only OTs.  I have ZERO faith in either one of these guys as future starters. Which is why I'm not surprised JD signed Fant to a contract with an out in a year. 

Here's a film breakdown of Fant. He is FAR from a finished product.

Get a plug and play OT in THIS draft at all costs. Get one in Rd. 1. Trade up a few spots if that's what it takes to get 'your guy'. Let the guys compete. 

Plenty of WRs to get one in Rd. 2 or 3. 

That is all. 

DOn't like the WRs in 2 / 3 nearly as much as 1.  JD will build the oline.  It's not a mandatory thing to pick whater OT falls to 11.

[nyjbuddy]

32 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I wouldn’t.  If I had to choose between elite playmakers or elite OL, I would take the playmakers.  

Agreed.  Interesting stat: Of the last 10 super bowl winning teams, 6 had a left tackle that had made the pro bowl at least once in their career, with only two of them making it twice in their career.  But every super bowl winning team had at least one pro bowl pass catcher.  This may be an unfair comparison as there are more pass catchers than left tackles, but the average number of years as a pro bowler was significant.  Of the pro bowl players, the average number of pro bowls per left tackle: 1.3, for the pass catchers: 2.9.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

I wouldn’t.  If I had to choose between elite playmakers or elite OL, I would take the playmakers.  

Many times, playmakers can look elite because the OL is so good.  

Give me the OL.  There are many more instances of elite OL play winning teams titles than elite WR's.  

[Jetsfan80]

28 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

Agreed.  Interesting stat: Of the last 10 super bowl winning teams, 6 had a left tackle that had made the pro bowl at least once in their career, with only two of them making it twice in their career.  But every super bowl winning team had at least one pro bowl pass catcher.  This may be an unfair comparison as there are more pass catchers than left tackles, but the average number of years as a pro bowler was significant.  Of the pro bowl players, the average number of pro bowls per left tackle: 1.3, for the pass catchers: 2.9.  

Pro Bowls doesn't do it for me, since the fans don't know much about OL play.  

Not to mention, Line play is about the UNIT, not the individual parts.  In 2009, the Jets had the best OL in the league.  How many starting Pro Bowlers did we have?  Just 1, Faneca.  Mangold backed up Mawae at Center.  Woody, Moore and Ferguson were all worthy of spots but got shut out.  

[TNJet]

35 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

When did Maccagnan have elite playmakers?  You’re just making stuff up at this point.  

No...but Maccagnan didn't seem interested in good olinemen either. And we are risking our QBs health every game for it now. Darnold, Bell, Adams, Maye, Herndon and even Ryan Griffin are playmakers Macc got for us. Yes, even defenders can be playmakers too. One common factor during all these good football players is a non executable offense due to the lack of olinemen. If you can run the football for 5 plus yds a carry, first downs become easier even for a bonehead like Gase. If you can give the QB more time to throw every pass play becomes easier to execute, therefore leading to more points scored even with JAG playmakers. 

[sec101row23]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Many times, playmakers can look elite because the OL is so good.  

Give me the OL.  There are many more instances of elite OL play winning teams titles than elite WR's.  

People like to think that but it’s not the case.  What O-line has made pedestrian playmakers look elite?   It’s an over simplification of things.   

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

People like to think that but it’s not the case.  What O-line has made pedestrian playmakers look elite?   It’s an over simplification of things.   

Not pedestrian but certainly helped take players to the next level.

Conversely, I'm sure we can find a lot of teams with excellent playmakers who were railroaded by poor OL play.  

[TNJet]

6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

People like to think that but it’s not the case.  What O-line has made pedestrian playmakers look elite?   It’s an over simplification of things.   

The one we had during our 2 afc championship runs. JAG Jets all over that squad. QB was the biggest JAG. We have a better one now. Lets protect him aye?

[TNJet]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not pedestrian but certainly helped take players to the next level.

Conversely, I'm sure we can find a lot of teams with excellent playmakers who were railroaded by poor OL play.  

*Cough, Browns*

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not pedestrian but certainly helped take players to the next level.

Conversely, I'm sure we can find a lot of teams with excellent playmakers who were railroaded by poor OL play.  

But the elite playmakers help the bad o-line way more than an elite O-line can help the poor weapons.   Your receivers still need to be able to beat coverages and make plays, even the best o-lines aren’t going to make guys run any faster, jump any higher, or beat press man coverage.   Simply saying that because the QB may have more time isn’t going to transform the receivers abilities.   

[ChuckkieB]

IF the Jets are staring at the #4 OL on the board vs. the #1 WR @11, it's gonna be very tough to pass on the WR.  Excellent players at both positions can be had in the 2nd round, and as long as the first two picks are WR and OL, I think I'll be ok with the order in which they are picked.

 

Personally, I would take the #1 WR over the #4 OL.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

But the elite playmakers help the bad o-line way more than an elite O-line can help the poor weapons.   Your receivers still need to be able to beat coverages and make plays, even the best o-lines aren’t going to make guys run any faster, jump any higher, or beat press man coverage.   Simply saying that because the QB may have more time isn’t going to transform the receivers abilities.   

Press man coverage is a lot easier to beat with more time, but I'll digress on that.  

The other big issue is keeping your QB upright in the first place.  If your OL causes your QB to get hurt you're f**ked regardless of the weapons you have.  

Lots of teams have won titles with just "pretty good" weapons.  So my preference is to shore up the issues at OT as best as possible.  And in this draft, with as many WRs that are available, but with none of them looking like lock future HOFers, it is absolute not necessary to take one with # 11.  We can very easily come away from this draft with a starting-caliber OT, a WR1 and WR2 if we play it smart.  It doesn't have to be either/or.