Clowney dropping his price...

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Bowles Movement said:

How is he a 3 time Pro Bowler when his best 3 seasons were 9.5, 9 and 6 sacks?
Jenkins had 15 the last two years and he s getting 5 million to play this year.

The same way we have a two time pro bowl safety who's never had a meaningful interception.

It's about name recognition.

[LAD_Brooklyn]

$17 mil is CJ Mosley money. Crazy he was able to land such a contract. Henry Anderson bout to make $7 mil this season. Williamson $6.5 mil. Use their cash spending to go after Clowney as we're deep at their positions anyway. If not then we need to atleast go after a JAG.

[ScarletKnight89]

2 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

How is he a 3 time Pro Bowler when his best 3 seasons were 9.5, 9 and 6 sacks?
Jenkins had 15 the last two years and he s getting 5 million to play this year.

Because sacks are not the only grading for a pass rusher.

Clowney is light years better than Jenkins. 

[King P]

@Jetsfan80 So I decided to do some digging. Starting from 2010, here are the teams that won the title and what their defense ranked that year (going by points allowed)...

Saints (25th; but 3rd in turnovers)

Packers (2nd)

Giants (25th; but tied for 7th in turnovers)

Ravens (12th)

Seahawks (1st)

Patriots (8th)

Broncos (4th)

Patriots (1st)

Eagles (4th)

Patriots (7th)

Chiefs (7th)

So really, the only teams that you can say had a mediocre D were the Saints and the Giants. And even then they were ranked Top 10 in turnovers.

So your whole thing about not needing a defense to win a title isn't really true

[ScarletKnight89]

10 minutes ago, LAD_Brooklyn said:

$17 mil is CJ Mosley money. Crazy he was able to land such a contract. Henry Anderson bout to make $7 mil this season. Williamson $6.5 mil. Use their cash spending to go after Clowney as we're deep at their positions anyway. If not then we need to atleast go after a JAG.

Agreed. CJ Mosley getting $17 million APY was ridiculous. Clowney playing at a high level is much more valuable to a team than CJ Mosley playing at a high level. 

 

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

 

C.J Mosley/and Marcus Maye

fixed

[ScarletKnight89]

16 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The same way we have a two time pro bowl safety who's never had a meaningful interception.

It's about name recognition.

Or because those stats represent a very tiny sample size of a players production...

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

I'd be shocked if Clowney's agent would allow him to sign a "prove it" deal with a team like the Jets who's coach and staff are notorious for having constant injury issues with their players, while at the same time having past players file injury grievance against the team. Not to mention the ability to control him after that one year with a franchise tag while in his prime years. 

If we can get him on a prove it deal, I'd take it for sure, but if that's all that Clowney can get he should take it then fire his agent. This guy isnt washed up, and even with the injury history, he's impactful on the field. 

It’s the injury history combined with the lack of ability to do a medical.

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/jadeveon-clowney/6932
 

^ not trusting their % but the injury history below is definitely something to be concerned about. 

Don’t want to give a guy who doesn’t produce sacks and has a bad knee a big contract. 

In for only one year. 

[Villain The Foe]

13 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

It’s the injury history combined with the lack of ability to do a medical.

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/jadeveon-clowney/6932
 

^ not trusting their % but the injury history below is definitely something to be concerned about. 

Don’t want to give a guy who doesn’t produce sacks and has a bad knee a big contract. 

In for only one year. 

Best believe if a team is looking to sign a guy they're finding a way of doing medicals to confirm.

The link isnt going to tell anyone anything that they dont know about Clowney's medical history. 

If you're worried about stats then dont give him a big contract. If you're looking at his ability to be a disrupter, help out the coverage by being one of the best in the league at pressuring the Qb while getting about 8 or 9 sacks then you sign him. 

 

Or, go into the season again with nothing. 

[UnknownJetFan]

2 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

How is he a 3 time Pro Bowler when his best 3 seasons were 9.5, 9 and 6 sacks?
Jenkins had 15 the last two years and he s getting 5 million to play this year.

Jenkins is good and makes plays, but Clowney makes game changing plays where he can wreck an offense. The type of ability he has is uncommon even though he doesn't have as many sacks like you said. His issue is durability though and Jenkins is durable, so I would rather players that are on the field when we need them.

[RedBeardedSavage]

9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Best believe if a team is looking to sign a guy they're finding a way of doing medicals to confirm.

The link isnt going to tell anyone anything that they dont know about Clowney's medical history. 

If you're worried about stats then dont give him a big contract. If you're looking at his ability to be a disrupter, help out the coverage by being one of the best in the league at pressuring the Qb while getting about 8 or 9 sacks then you sign him. 

 

Or, go into the season again with nothing. 

He’s just not an elite edge rusher and he wants elite edge rusher money. 

And he has a checkered injury history.

I remain in the one year offer camp. We can save money for next year and focus on cheaper vets/the draft. 

I don’t need a splash signing. We’re not one player away on offense or defense right now. 

[82nd Airborne]

He is not really giving a discount.  The way this is going, he might play 50% on his first year of his contract.

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

It will be playoff-ready teams competing for him.  I think it's a long shot he ends up with our NYJ.

Seattle, Tennessee, etc....those teams make sense.

The Rams weren't a playoff team heading into 2017.

The niners weren't a playoff team heading into last year.

[Villain The Foe]

22 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

He’s just not an elite edge rusher and he wants elite edge rusher money. 

And he has a checkered injury history.

I remain in the one year offer camp. We can save money for next year and focus on cheaper vets/the draft. 

I don’t need a splash signing. We’re not one player away on offense or defense right now. 

This below...

3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

16 million is the sweet spot. 

Offer him 4 years 64 million with 50 million guaranteed, call it a day then go get our WR. 

Is not elite edge rusher money. 

It would place him 13th on the top average salary list. 

 

You can have the last word. ?

[LAD_Brooklyn]

15 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

He’s just not an elite edge rusher and he wants elite edge rusher money. 

And he has a checkered injury history.

I remain in the one year offer camp. We can save money for next year and focus on cheaper vets/the draft. 

I don’t need a splash signing. We’re not one player away on offense or defense right now. 

That's true, he's an A run defender and a B- pass rusher. Still a desirable target considering we don't have to trade for him.

[RedBeardedSavage]

8 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

This below...

Is not elite edge rusher money. 

It would place him 13th on the top average salary list. 

 

You can have the last word. ?

In research on my response I found this:

Quote

Clowney’s pressure rate of 12.2% sits closer to the middle of the pack, but even that doesn’t show how disruptive he’s been. His pass-rushing grade of 79.1 ranks 16th among all edge rushers thanks in large part to just how unblockable he looks at times, such as the above snap against the Los Angeles Rams in Week 5.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-misleading-sack-numbers-free-agents-2020

That bodes well for your #'s. 13th in pay among edge rusher money for 16th in edge rushing. I can live with that. 

If we can clear him medically and feel confident he'll play 75% of the games we signed him for, and that's a big if considering 'the rona' situation currently, then you've convinced me. 

4 years @ 16 a year. 

[Embrace the Suck]

1 hour ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I'm not putting my faith in a frauds defense who's defenses have usually always ranks in the 20's (and 30s). That was one of the fakest #1 defenses I've ever seen and scared no one. 

You don't even know what #1 Defense looks like - if you just used N.E's defense as a measuring stick - you don't know no #1 defense (but I can teach you). 

Just to name a few:

The Pittsburgh Steelers Steel Curtain Defenses throughout the 1970's (4 Championships).

1984 San Francisco 49ers Defense (4 Pro Bowlers in their secondary alone; The original Legion of Boom)

85' Chicago Bears Defense (the year I was born ala 'Defense is in my DNA').

1986 N.Y Giants Defense.

2000 Baltimore Ravens Defense.

2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Defense. 

2008 Pittsburgh Steelers Defense. 

2012 Baltimore Ravens Defense. 

2013's Legion of Boom Defense (Seattle Seahawks).

2015 Denver Broncos Defense

Etc, etc (and many more). 

Don't talk to me about defense ever again. 

lol, I guess aside from... 87'-2000, 2001, 2003-07, 2009-11, 2014, 2016-20.... So you credit 6 of the last 20 super bowls to defense. I'm not saying D doesn't matter of course. Just that offense matters more and more particularly with the rule changes.

[Bowles Movement]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

The same way we have a two time pro bowl safety who's never had a meaningful interception.

It's about name recognition.

This degrading of Adams play is getting ridiculous.  How do you get name recognition besides good play?   How come Leonard Williams didn’t make the Pro Bowl? His name wasn’t recognized?   How about Marcus Maye?  Was Le veon Bell a Pro Bowler this year?

As others have said, we already have a stout run defense.  If I was going to pay a pass rusher to rush the passer, I’d prefer to pay less than 2-3 million per sack, or get more sacks for 15-20 million a year.

[Bowles Movement]

1 hour ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Jenkins is good and makes plays, but Clowney makes game changing plays where he can wreck an offense. The type of ability he has is uncommon even though he doesn't have as many sacks like you said. His issue is durability though and Jenkins is durable, so I would rather players that are on the field when we need them.

If he isn’t making sacks what are the game changing plays?
Are you going to say he is disruptive and gets a lot of QB pressures like Leonard Williams?

[GreenFish]

16.5M puts him in the Za’Darius Smith category. That seems reasonable. 
 

Clowney is a comparable player to Trey Flowers who got overpaid last year at $18 per over 5 years. 4 years at $16-16.5M seems more reasonable.

Our front 4 would be tough on first downs. Then on third downs, we can move him inside with Q and have Jenkins and Basham coming off the edge. Clowney is pretty versatile.

[jetsjets]

I can tell you he’s not dropping his asking price to become a ny Jet. 

[SR24]

 

[KINGDIRK]

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

16 million is the sweet spot. 

Offer him 4 years 64 million with 50 million guaranteed, call it a day then go get our WR. 

66 games started min his career

32 sacks 

hmmmmm......

[Jetsfan80]

Don't look at those heavy analytic based sites. Plus they're probably factoring other things such as turnovers and yards allowed.

 

lol. They’re factoring in the success rate of every play, and comparing it to how the other 31 teams do in similar situations.

 

Create a metric that measures that better and then we’ll talk about disregarding FO.

[Jetsfan80]

I'm not putting my faith in a frauds defense who's defenses have usually always ranks in the 20's (and 30s). That was one of the fakest #1 defenses I've ever seen and scared no one. 
You don't even know what #1 Defense looks like - if you just used N.E's defense as a measuring stick - you don't know no #1 defense (but I can teach you). 
Just to name a few:
The Pittsburgh Steelers Steel Curtain Defenses throughout the 1970's (4 Championships).
1984 San Francisco 49ers Defense (4 Pro Bowlers in their secondary alone; The original Legion of Boom)
85' Chicago Bears Defense (the year I was born ala 'Defense is in my DNA').
1986 N.Y Giants Defense.
2000 Baltimore Ravens Defense.
2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Defense. 
2008 Pittsburgh Steelers Defense. 
2012 Baltimore Ravens Defense. 
2013's Legion of Boom Defense (Seattle Seahawks).
2015 Denver Broncos Defense
Etc, etc (and many more). 
Don't talk to me about defense ever again. 

I’ll do what I want, because it’s 2020 and you’re wrong.

9 of the last 10 years we’ve taken D in the first round and haven’t won d*ck. This franchise has been defense-first since 1970 and hasn’t won d*ck.

Time to become an offensive powerhouse and forget about defense for a while.

[themeangreenkillingmachine]

I wonder what fans here would be saying if any Jets OLB/DE getting paid top dollars or was selected #1 overall and never had more then 10 sacks in a season yet alone  had 3 sacks last year. 
 

i get the “he does more than just sack the QB” ... if he were a Nose Tackle or Mike Linebacker 

he is an edge rusher. Edge players get paid 90% primarily on sacking the qb

 

Clowney is a bust

 

stay away

 

 

[jetspenguin]

34 minutes ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

I wonder what fans here would be saying if any Jets OLB/DE getting paid top dollars or was selected #1 overall and never had more then 10 sacks in a season yet alone  had 3 sacks last year. 
 

i get the “he does more than just sack the QB” ... if he were a Nose Tackle or Mike Linebacker 

he is an edge rusher. Edge players get paid 90% primarily on sacking the qb

 

Clowney is a bust

 

stay away

 

 

[k-met57]

3 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Because sacks are not the only grading for a pass rusher.

Clowney is light years better than Jenkins. 

but is that really a thing anyone should care about? jenkins is just a guy. i get that Clowney can be impactful, but 3 sacks in 13 games? 32 career sacks for a pass rush guy? 7 FF in 6 seasons? i dunno....just doesnt smell like 18m/year.

[k-met57]

46 minutes ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

I wonder what fans here would be saying if any Jets OLB/DE getting paid top dollars or was selected #1 overall and never had more then 10 sacks in a season yet alone  had 3 sacks last year. 
 

i get the “he does more than just sack the QB” ... if he were a Nose Tackle or Mike Linebacker 

he is an edge rusher. Edge players get paid 90% primarily on sacking the qb

 

Clowney is a bust

 

stay away

 

 

i tend to sort of agree....how do u pay 18m/year for someone with so few "game changing" plays?

[BornJetsFan1983]

6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

16 million is the sweet spot. 

Offer him 4 years 64 million with 50 million guaranteed, call it a day then go get our WR. 

Why? We already signed jenkins...if he takes deal like that sure sign me up 

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 hour ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said:

I wonder what fans here would be saying if any Jets OLB/DE getting paid top dollars or was selected #1 overall and never had more then 10 sacks in a season yet alone  had 3 sacks last year. 
 

i get the “he does more than just sack the QB” ... if he were a Nose Tackle or Mike Linebacker 

he is an edge rusher. Edge players get paid 90% primarily on sacking the qb

 

Clowney is a bust

 

stay away

 

 

This is absolutely  true. Bust city. Why does everyone  have a hard on for this guy?

Jenkins is better tha  him in pretty much every way you can measure players other than where they were drafted.

I take him on team friendly  deal but not where he wants to get bad

[GreenFish]

29 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

i tend to sort of agree....how do u pay 18m/year for someone with so few "game changing" plays?

$18 is too much. I won’t argue there. But how are you defining game changing plays? Do tackles for loss count as game changing? A tackle 3 yards behind the LOS is as good as a sack. Last year was a down year for sure. The 3 years prior, he average 8 sacks and 17 TFL. As a comparison, Mack over the last 3 years average 10 sacks and 11 TFL. He has half the force fumbles as Mack though.

The two questions for me is was last year an anomaly (supposedly he played hurt)? And is he a Wilkerson type of player that will call it a day once he gets paid? 

It’s a tough decision for sure. You don’t want to overpay players. I’d pull the trigger at $16 per year over 4 years. 

[Jets723]

I’ve never been a Clowney fan.  Coming out of college he was very overhyped IMO and hasn’t lived up to it.  It’s funny because we get on our own guys for not gettingto the QB enough but a lot of people are desperate for Clowney but he doesn’t get to the QB a ton either to be honest 

[Big_Slick]

5 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

NO.. there's a reason his team traded him in the first place. He was touted as being lazy coming out of college remember? When he gets his big payday he will go back to being that guy.

No Clowney, No Griffin, No Trent Williams. NO.. to everybody else's overpriced damaged JUNK!!!

Anybody worth of f*** was tagged or paid already.  We should have got Shaq Barrett when he was available for peanuts last year like I said. Or Dante Fowler Jr....I believe they both got the franchise tag.

I want our GM to keep making smart moves. So I say no to Clowney, Antonio Brown, OBJ,  Flacco,  Trent Williams, Griffen, , or any other washed up clown Problem Child that nobody else wants.

Trade... Bell, Mosely, Adams, Williamson  or whoever we can for more draft picks...  then draft Curtis Weaver!!

Go check out his highlight reel on YouTube if you want to see a game changer!

I sh*t you not-

 

Totally agree with the exception of Mosely and Williamson.