Dallas to offer “high pick” for Jamal Adams

[Creepy Lurker]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Franchises are built on "crapshoots".  You can't win without building in the draft.  And no, its not fully a crapshoot.  Hence why Ozzie Newsome was the Ravens GM for so long.  Douglas comes from that organization and seems to be mirroring some of Ozzie's philosophy.

The "known" is we're 15-31 WITH Jamal Adams as a top 2 player on the roster.  Let's try something different.

Our franchise is usually built on “crap”.

[Dunnie]

Delete this post.

 

 

 

 

[section314]

6 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Our franchise is usually built on “crap”.

So true, but to be honest, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Either way, a great line.?

[Dunnie]

Yes.  Fine.  But, it's not just that.
If you think it's okay to pay 10% of your cap for the specific things that Jamal Adams does for your team, then pay him.  I don't.
But, the trade your making is for 1-2 players, on 5 year deals, for significantly less resources than you're soon going to have to devote to Adams.  Additionally, you're hopefully trading a strong safety (even if he's the best) for a WR and a LT (or something similar) and betting that even if you don't get an all-pro in return, that a good WR and LT, hell maybe even just an above average WR and LT are better than a very good SS.

That's fair ... And really comes down to a difference of opinion on what you pay. I pay for whatever I get the most production out of in terms of quality of play. For example I don't pay a QB franchise QB money if he's playing as a sub par level. furthermore I don't pay a wide receiver crazy money just because he's a wide receiver. The guys I pay are perennial pro bowlers or All pros. I simply don't pay just because of a positional designation. Hey if you don't like the long-term guaranteed contract then offer him 35 million guaranteed and 75 over 5 years

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[chirorob]

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Is that real? That can’t be real. 

That was literally my exact thought.

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

That's fair ... And really comes down to a difference of opinion on what you pay. I pay for whatever I get the most production out of in terms of quality of play. For example I don't pay a QB franchise QB money if he's playing as a sub par level. furthermore I don't pay a wide receiver crazy money just because he's a wide receiver. The guys I pay are perennial pro bowlers or All pros. I simply don't pay just because of a positional designation. Hey if you don't like the long-term guaranteed contract then offer him 35 million guaranteed and 75 over 5 years

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

No one is advocating overpaying anyone.  They're advocating not overpaying Jamal Adams, because his production, 61 tackles, 6.5 sacks (5 of which were Daniel Jones/Dwayne Haskins), and one garbage time INT, isn't worth top defender, or top safety money, despite what awards are attached to his name.  No one says give a WR that 15M specifically if he's not worth it.  Just that the guy who you realistically will have to pay that 15M to, isn't worth it.  And, that same guy may bring us some other resources, in much needed draft picks.

[14 in Green]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The "known" is we're 15-31 WITH Jamal Adams as a top 2 player on the roster.  Let's try something different.

Just using your "known" here... 

If I'm following your premise correctly, you should want to get rid of the QB on that same team, right?

I mean, both the SS and QB are young and on rookie deals, and both would bring back valuable assets in a trade. The conundrum though is you seem to want to get rid of the one who's performed at the highest level and keep the one who hasn't. Even though the QB will cost 2x the amount to resign, and would probably bring back a little more in a trade than the productive guy.

 

[Dunnie]

No one is advocating overpaying anyone.  They're advocating not overpaying Jamal Adams, because his production, 61 tackles, 6.5 sacks (5 of which were Daniel Jones/Dwayne Haskins), and one garbage time INT, isn't worth top defender, or top safety money, despite what awards are attached to his name.  No one says give a WR that 15M specifically if he's not worth it.  Just that the guy who you realistically will have to pay that 15M to, isn't worth it.  And, that same guy may bring us some other resources, in much needed draft picks.

Jamal is a beast ... And widely recognized as such ... Deal w it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[ZachEY]

13 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Jamal is a beast ... And widely recognized as such ... Deal w it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

He’s very many adjectives and very few quantifiable things, indeed.

[ZachEY]

25 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Just using your "known" here... 

If I'm following your premise correctly, you should want to get rid of the QB on that same team, right?

I mean, both the SS and QB are young and on rookie deals, and both would bring back valuable assets in a trade. The conundrum though is you seem to want to get rid of the one who's performed at the highest level and keep the one who hasn't. Even though the QB will cost 2x the amount to resign, and would probably bring back a little more in a trade than the productive guy.

 

1) I would imagine that just about everyone who is pro-trade/anti-pay Jamal Adams, has significant concerns about Darnold as well.

2) The comparison fails because Jamal Adams is playing at "elite" SS level (or so I'm told), and it's not making a damn bit of difference while Sam Darnold isn't playing anywhere near elite QB level.  You're hoping that with reps, protection, and weapons, Darnold will elevate which presumably will elevate the team.  With Adams, this is what you get.  You're not expecting he gets meaningfully better - this is the exact same player he was in college.

[Jetsfan80]

35 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Just using your "known" here... 

If I'm following your premise correctly, you should want to get rid of the QB on that same team, right?

I mean, both the SS and QB are young and on rookie deals, and both would bring back valuable assets in a trade. The conundrum though is you seem to want to get rid of the one who's performed at the highest level and keep the one who hasn't. Even though the QB will cost 2x the amount to resign, and would probably bring back a little more in a trade than the productive guy.

 

 

The QB isn't looking for a new contract this year.  The SS is. 

If Sam plays at a level of a QB outside of the top 20 next year, I won't be looking to pay him, and may look to trade him before his rookie deal expires.

Bringing up Darnold every time Adams is brought up makes little sense though.  As I've said before, a QB has an infintely bigger impact on the W-L column than the SS does, and that goes in BOTH directions (bad QB's lose, good QB's win). 

QB's will always be valuable because of this, even if they're only mediocre.  After all, at any given time, there's only like 10-12 very good/elite QBs in the league.  So if you have one you THINK you can win with him, you probably have to pay him.  

Jamal, even at his best, has a very limited impact on the W-L column.  So in no situation do I want to pay him even top Safety money, let alone top DEFENDER money.  Particularly not when our OT's are George Fant and Chuma Edoga, our WR's are Jamison Crowder and Breshad Perriman, and we still don't have CB's and EDGE rushers.

[CanadienJetsFan]

19 pages of this impressive. I don't there's ever been a more polarizing player on this team since...I gotta think this for a while. Lord knows I got time.

[68JET11]

40 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Just using your "known" here... 

If I'm following your premise correctly, you should want to get rid of the QB on that same team, right?

I mean, both the SS and QB are young and on rookie deals, and both would bring back valuable assets in a trade. The conundrum though is you seem to want to get rid of the one who's performed at the highest level and keep the one who hasn't. Even though the QB will cost 2x the amount to resign, and would probably bring back a little more in a trade than the productive guy.

 

We're trying to build an offense here, not overpay a SS... I won't comment on the QB because @Jetsfan80 just did.

[Jets723]

5 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

19 pages of this impressive. I don't there's ever been a more polarizing player on this team since...I gotta think this for a while. Lord knows I got time.

True lol.  I’m honestly not on either side.  I’m not a huge fan of his BUT I recognize his talent.  I’m not against a trade BUT I need a great return 

[14 in Green]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The QB isn't looking for a new contract this year.  The SS is. 

If Sam plays at a level of a QB outside of the top 20 next year, I won't be looking to pay him, and may look to trade him before his rookie deal expires.

Bringing up Darnold every time Adams is brought up makes little sense though.  As I've said before, a QB has an infintely bigger impact on the W-L column than the SS does, and that goes in BOTH directions (bad QB's lose, good QB's win). 

QB's will always be valuable because of this, even if they're only mediocre.  After all, at any given time, there's only like 10-12 very good/elite QBs in the league.  So if you have one you THINK you can win with him, you probably have to pay him.  

Jamal, even at his best, has a very limited impact on the W-L column.  So in no situation do I want to pay him even top Safety money, let alone top DEFENDER money.  Particularly not when our OT's are George Fant and Chuma Edoga, our WR's are Jamison Crowder and Breshad Perriman, and we still don't have CB's and EDGE rushers.

Good answer, buddy, I agree 100% with your last paragraph. The best argument for trading Adams is how bad this roster is. However that same logic can and should be applied to Darnold, who cost us way more and has produced way less. You don't have to look hard to find many other young QBs who have brought back a better return on investment than Darnold has.

As I said in my prior post, he's probably going to be looking for a new deal next season, and even if he isn't, and has two more meh seasons, he's going to easily cost double the price to resign than Adams. I totally understand the reasoning for trading Adams, I just wouldn't do it for the price many here would, which is a 1st and a 3rd or 4th pick. If we could've made that rumored Cowboy trade for the elite OL and a 1st, yeah, I'd have done it.

Big picture though, whether guys here want to admit it or not (and people like you and @TeddEY have been very aware of it) is Darnold is the elephant in the room here.

People go on and on about Adams, QW, guys like Trumaine and Leo, yet they gloss over the fact that we gave up the #6 pick in the draft and 3 second round picks for a guy who to put it kindly, hasn't stayed healthy and has performed at a jag level his first two seasons. So yeah, I'm going to keep harping on it, the same way people harped on the other players I mentioned.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Good answer, buddy, I agree 100% with your last paragraph. The best argument for trading Adams is how bad this roster is. However that same logic can and should be applied to Darnold, who cost us way more and has produced way less. You don't have to look hard to find many other young QBs who have brought back a better return on investment than Darnold has.

As I said in my prior post, he's probably going to be looking for a new deal next season, and even if he isn't, and has two more meh seasons, he's going to easily cost double the price to resign than Adams. I totally understand the reasoning for trading Adams, I just wouldn't do it for the price many here would, which is a 1st and a 3rd or 4th pick. If we could've made that rumored Cowboy trade for the elite OL and a 1st, yeah, I'd have done it.

Big picture though, whether guys here want to admit it or not (and people like you and @TeddEY have been very aware of it) is Darnold is the elephant in the room here.

People go on and on about Adams, QW, guys like Trumaine and Leo, yet they gloss over the fact that we gave up the #6 pick in the draft and 3 second round picks for a guy who to put it kindly, hasn't stayed healthy and has performed at a jag level his first two seasons. So yeah, I'm going to keep harping on it, the same way people harped on the other players I mentioned.

 

Darnold is never the elephant in the room.  Everyone is distinctly aware of the problem we have here in regards to his potential 2nd contract and whether it'll be worth it. 

And I said in my post above that if he doesn't play at a Top 20 QB level next season, I'm ready to be done with him.  

Trading Adams now has little to do with Darnold.  Even if Darnold isn't the guy, we still need at least one OT, 2 new WR's, 2 new CB's and at least 1 EDGE rusher.  That won't change regardless of who is under Center.

[14 in Green]

Just now, 68JET11 said:

We're trying to build an offense here, not overpay a SS... I won't comment on the QB because @Jetsfan80 just did.

LMAO.

You chime in with "we're trying to build an offense here", yet you don't want to comment the Quarterback?

Gimme a break.

[ZachEY]

25 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Good answer, buddy, I agree 100% with your last paragraph. The best argument for trading Adams is how bad this roster is. However that same logic can and should be applied to Darnold, who cost us way more and has produced way less. You don't have to look hard to find many other young QBs who have brought back a better return on investment than Darnold has.

As I said in my prior post, he's probably going to be looking for a new deal next season, and even if he isn't, and has two more meh seasons, he's going to easily cost double the price to resign than Adams. I totally understand the reasoning for trading Adams, I just wouldn't do it for the price many here would, which is a 1st and a 3rd or 4th pick. If we could've made that rumored Cowboy trade for the elite OL and a 1st, yeah, I'd have done it.

Big picture though, whether guys here want to admit it or not (and people like you and @TeddEY have been very aware of it) is Darnold is the elephant in the room here.

People go on and on about Adams, QW, guys like Trumaine and Leo, yet they gloss over the fact that we gave up the #6 pick in the draft and 3 second round picks for a guy who to put it kindly, hasn't stayed healthy and has performed at a jag level his first two seasons. So yeah, I'm going to keep harping on it, the same way people harped on the other players I mentioned.

Darnold doesn't have anything to do with this.

[14 in Green]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Trading Adams now has little to do with Darnold.  Even if Darnold isn't the guy, we still need at least one OT, 2 new WR's, 2 new CB's and at least 1 EDGE rusher.  That won't change regardless of who is under Center.

What you're describing is a team with bottom 5-7 level talent. I agree with you, who's under center doesn't change that.

A team like that is basically building from scratch. When you add in what the QB has shown in two years (granted he hasn't had much help). It's the type of team that should be looking to trade ANY valuable asset they have. If the QB will bring back the most assets right now, a team like the Jets should be willing to explore that option, unless you think he's suddenly going to prove he can lift that team, despite the lack of talent around him.

Both you and I want to see this team built for the long haul through the draft. This isn't going to be a quick fix, even if Douglas turns out to be a good GM. Darnold is not only the elephant in the room, but in a year or two, he'll be the $300 million elephant in the room.

He's the discussion to be had, not Adams.

[14 in Green]

Just now, TeddEY said:

Darnold doesn't have anything to do with this.

Disagree.

He's the Quarterback. Every move a team with the talent level the Jets have should be based on what the QB position has done the last two years, and how they feel that QB will perform the next year or two.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

Disagree.

He's the Quarterback. Every move a team with the talent level the Jets have should be based on what the QB position has done the last two years, and how they feel that QB will perform the next year or two.

So, break it down for me.

If Sam Darnold plays as a top 10 QB, we should ______________ Jamal Adams.

If Sam Darnold plays as a middle 10 QB, we should ___________ Jamal Adams.

If Sam Darnold plays as a bottom 10 QB, we should ____________ Jamal Adams.

And help me understand the reasons for any differences in the blanks.

[Jetsfan80]

40 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

LMAO.

You chime in with "we're trying to build an offense here", yet you don't want to comment the Quarterback?

Gimme a break.

We need to build an offense with a suitable amount of talent for ANY QB.  That's the point.  We don't have one at the moment.  Not as long as there are gaping holes at RT and WR and a big question mark at LT.  

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Disagree.

He's the Quarterback. Every move a team with the talent level the Jets have should be based on what the QB position has done the last two years, and how they feel that QB will perform the next year or two.

And how will keeping Jamal Adams help the next QB if/when Darnold is let go?

[T0mShane]

12 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Disagree.

He's the Quarterback. Every move a team with the talent level the Jets have should be based on what the QB position has done the last two years, and how they feel that QB will perform the next year or two.

Using the QB position in abstract to somehow elevate the strong safety position is some feat. 

[MindOverMatter]

8 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Disagree.

He's the Quarterback. Every move a team with the talent level the Jets have should be based on what the QB position has done the last two years, and how they feel that QB will perform the next year or two.

Darnold has been the youngest starting QB in NFL history, surrounded by awful coaching and subpar offensive talent. You mentioned how plenty of other young qb's have had better starts to their career, but how many of those qb's would succeed with this roster?

Mentioning Darnold everytime someone brings up Adams is pure deflection, trade Adams and build an actual competent offense so that it can be clear if Darnold is the answer or not. IMO, he is the answer but even if he fails, paying Adams what he thinks he is worth is a monumental mistake. Save me the pro bowls, and other worthless accolades, those are all popularity awards and for a guy who lives on Twitter like Jamal, those should not be hard to win.

[14 in Green]

Just now, TeddEY said:

So, break it down for me.

If Sam Darnold plays as a top 10 QB, we should ______________ Jamal Adams.

If Sam Darnold plays as a middle 10 QB, we should ___________ Jamal Adams.

If Sam Darnold plays as a bottom 10 QB, we should ____________ Jamal Adams.

And help me understand the reasons for any differences in the blanks.

#1. Keep Adams. We have a great QB. Keep your All Pro defender, and as many and the other good players on the team as we can. We have a top 10 QB, and are now a threat to win a championship. Go for it. 

#2. Keep Adams. He's young and a very good player. Since we have a average QB, we need to keep and get as many "very good" players on the team around him as possible in order to be a playoff contender. 

#3. Trade Adams, AND Darnold, along with whoever else you can, because with a bottom 10 QB, you're going anywhere, and you need to tear things down and start over.

[14 in Green]

Just now, MindOverMatter said:

Darnold has been the youngest starting QB in NFL history, surrounded by awful coaching and subpar offensive talent. You mentioned how plenty of other young qb's have had better starts to their career, but how many of those qb's would succeed with this roster?

Mentioning Darnold everytime someone brings up Adams is pure deflection, trade Adams and build an actual competent offense so that it can be clear if Darnold is the answer or not. IMO, he is the answer but even if he fails, paying Adams what he thinks he is worth is a monumental mistake. Save me the pro bowls, and other worthless accolades, those are all popularity awards and for a guy who lives on Twitter like Jamal, those should not be hard to win.

So you think paying Adams is a monumental mistake. That's fine, I can see the argument against doing it.

What will you say though if Sexton comes to the Jets after next year requesting a 7 year $300 million deal which includes a $50 million signing bonus and $200 mil guaranteed?

[T0mShane]

59 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

People go on and on about Adams, QW, guys like Trumaine and Leo, yet they gloss over the fact that we gave up the #6 pick in the draft and 3 second round picks for a guy who to put it kindly, hasn't stayed healthy and has performed at a jag level his first two seasons. So yeah, I'm going to keep harping on it, the same way people harped on the other players I mentioned.

You failed to mention that the same GM who gave up those assets for Darnold did so because he passed on Mahomes and Watson to take the strong safety in question.

[MindOverMatter]

2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

So you think paying Adams is a monumental mistake. That's fine, I can see the argument against doing it.

What will you say though if Sexton comes to the Jets after next year requesting a 7 year $300 million deal which includes a $50 million signing bonus and $250 guaranteed?

I say congratulations on the new deal and maintain my stance on overpaying a SS that doesn't create turnovers. Jamal a good player, just not the kind i wanna build my team around. If this was the 2010 roster, than by all means pay Jamal. But this current roster is so empty, that it would be criminal to pay a safety that much. 

Trade him to Dallas and everyone is happy. Besides a few Jet fans that can't understand resource management.

[Jetsfan80]

19 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Using the QB position in abstract to somehow elevate the strong safety position is some feat. 

Jets fans, including 14 in Green:  WHY DOES EVERY THREAD HAVE TO END UP BEING ABOUT JAMAL

Also 14 in Green in every thread:  YEAH, BUT DARNOLD......MAYFIELD.....

[Jets723]

5 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said:

I say congratulations on the new deal and maintain my stance on overpaying a SS that doesn't create turnovers. Jamal a good player, just not the kind i wanna build my team around. If this was the 2010 roster, than by all means pay Jamal. But this current roster is so empty, that it would be criminal to pay a safety that much. 

Trade him to Dallas and everyone is happy. Besides a few Jet fans that can't understand resource management.

I’m perfectly fine with a trade the only issue is the return. I need a first and a third at the minimum 

[14 in Green]

Just now, T0mShane said:

You failed to mention that the same GM who gave up those assets for Darnold did so because he passed on Mahomes and Watson to take the strong safety in question.

So did a lot of other GMs.

Using your hindsight, and given how Mahomes and Watson have performed, How many teams do you think wish they could have gazed into your crystal ball, go back in time, and either draft, or trade up for one of them?

[14 in Green]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Jets fans, including 14 in Green:  WHY DOES EVERY THREAD HAVE TO END UP BEING ABOUT JAMAL

Also 14 in Green in every thread:  YEAH, BUT DARNOLD......MAYFIELD.....

Jets fans including jetsfan80: DEFENSE DOESN'T MATTER IN TODAY'S NFL. TRADE OUR BEST PLAYER.

Also Jetsfan80 in every thread. YEAH, BUT MACC... ADAMS...

[MindOverMatter]

4 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I’m perfectly fine with a trade the only issue is the return. I need a first and a third at the minimum 

1st and 3rd would definitely do it. At this point i'd take a 1st and 4th. So over hearing about Adams.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

Jets fans including jetsfan80: DEFENSE DOESN'T MATTER IN TODAY'S NFL. TRADE OUR BEST PLAYER.

Also Jetsfan80 in every thread. YEAH, BUT MACC... ADAMS...

Those 2 statements line up quite nicely.  Defense doesn't matter, Macc sucks, and we should trade Adams.  

lol.