Report: Jets Talking to Falcons About Trade Down

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I wasn’t accusing you of not having optimism.  I was talking about in general.  I think you may have jumped the gun.  No big deal stay safe man ? 

I never said that you accused me of not having optimism.

General statements have general implications. So since you sent it to me I figured I'd specifically state where my optimism was. 

 

Stay safe! 

[Jets723]

Just now, jetstream23 said:

At #16 the Jets would have the choice of at least one (probably two or three) of the following: WRs Jeudy, Ruggs, Lamb, Jefferson, Mims and OTs Thomas, Josh Jones, Austin Jackson.  Any one of those players instantly helps the Jets and getting an additional pick on Day 2 would be invaluable to a team with a ton of needs.

Absolutely 

[Jet_Engine1]

1 hour ago, Greensleeves said:

This board is getting a bit too crazy about offensive lineman. We can't have 20 Olineman. A team has a cap and needs to fill out the roster. We don't need more than one high pick on OL this year. We already have developmental guys. Also, we'll be absolutely fine if we grab one in the second round. I trust JD knows how to evaluate tackles and that his evaluation isn't the same as the draft guys. We shouldn't wait for WR or OL - they should be the top two picks, but the order can vary. The only way I can see grabbing more than one OL in the draft is if there is a center they like. 

 

Bullsh*t. They neglected O line for 10 years, even after drafting a QB at 3. That's absurd. This is a clear case where BPA should align with desperate need. If we stay at 11, Thomas, Wills, Wirfs or Becton should be available. Even if they start at RT, that's a need filled by a BPA. If we did trade back with the Falcons,  Cleveleand or Jones should be available and tbh they might actually fit perfectly with the type of O line they seem to be building. 

 

And no, we don't need "20 Linemen", we need a starting caliber young Tackle to add to the roster. Winters may be gone, or be kept as OG depth. But we're still thin at legitimate OTs. Edoga is a swing backup at best, and Fant is a flier on a developing player. 

 

As for WR, this draft is LOADED at WR talent that will have players available in the secomd and third rounds that are better than any young receiver prospects the Jets have had since Moss and Coles. 

 

[Greensleeves]

9 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Well, right now we have neither quality nor quantity.

If this was the NBA and one player accounted for 20% of the team on the court/field, I'd agree.  But not in this case.

Dropping from #11 into the late teens (Falcons, Cowboys, etc.) should net a 2nd round pick (maybe an early 3rd).  Getting two very good prospects is better than getting a single great one in my opinion.  The time to focus on a quality is when (if) this team is ever just a player or two away from championship contention.  It's the same thing in FA as the Draft....accumulating a larger collection of good players is better right now than getting one or two great ones.  We're not the Chiefs who recognized they needed a guy or two like Tyrann Mathieu and Frank Clark to get over the hump.

I get what you're saying, but great players elevate players around them. Good players do not. If you have a great player they can changed the dynamic of a game and cover weaknesses. In the case of a WR, they can get open when the game is on the line or allow someone else to get open. We have great players on D - Adams, Mosely and possibly a couple others that may grow into one. We need more on offense. This division is there for the taking if we draft well. One stud T and one great WR and BOOM! 

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Greensleeves said:

This board is getting a bit too crazy about offensive lineman. We can't have 20 Olineman. A team has a cap and needs to fill out the roster. We don't need more than one high pick on OL this year. We already have developmental guys. Also, we'll be absolutely fine if we grab one in the second round. I trust JD knows how to evaluate tackles and that his evaluation isn't the same as the draft guys. We shouldn't wait for WR or OL - they should be the top two picks, but the order can vary. The only way I can see grabbing more than one OL in the draft is if there is a center they like. 

All of this Quinnen bashing is off base. The guy is really young and can develop into a dominant presence. He showed flashes last year. Talk about not giving a guy a chance - he could end up being the most impactful player on our D in a year or two. He's so young and has a lot of potential. He can blow up plays all on his own. Can we please give the kid a chance. Greg Williams will develop him and we'll be happy to have kept him.

Bull, we only need one 2nd rounder on oline after totally neglecting it for a decade?

It ALL starts with the oline on offense, all aspects of your offense.

The goal should be to build a great oline not a 'can get by' oline.

As for Quinnen, he is meh and will be Leo version 2 a guy that is almost good, almost gets to the QB will be better next year for 5 years.

A 3rd overall pick DT is not a developmental player.

[Barry McCockinner]

57 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

 

A few things. First, I stated that my preference was to get one of the big tackles early. I wanted to run some mocks with this trade to see how it goes. The value at 16 was clearly Ruggs and while we absolutely need to address the oline (my preference) we also need to address the WRs.

Second, please look at the third round picks. 2 zone blocking tackles and a center.

Lastly, we would definitely have the ammo to trade back into the end of round one or beginning of round 2 in this scenario where some other tackles seem to go.

[Rangers9]

Not impossible that the Jets could trade up if the receiver they like is still on the board. 

[Greensleeves]

3 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Bullsh*t. They neglected O line for 10 years, even after drafting a QB at 3. That's absurd. This is a clear case where BPA should align with desperate need. If we stay at 11, Thomas, Wills, Wirfs or Becton should be available. Even if they start at RT, that's a need filled by a BPA. If we did trade back with the Falcons,  Cleveleand or Jones should be available and tbh they might actually fit perfectly with the type of O line they seem to be building. 

 

And no, we don't need "20 Linemen", we need a starting caliber young Tackle to add to the roster. Winters may be gone, or be kept as OG depth. But we're still thin at legitimate OTs. Edoga is a swing backup at best, and Fant is a flier on a developing player. 

 

As for WR, this draft is LOADED at WR talent that will have players available in the secomd and third rounds that are better than any young receiver prospects the Jets have had since Moss and Coles. 

 

I raise you a bullsh*t. You have no idea if the people Douglas wants are the people the draft guys like. There is major value in the top 2 rounds at OT. You don't think McGovern can play center?! Van Roten can't hold his own? Where exactly was our weakness last year - up the middle. Stop acting like the top 4 guys are going to be any better than the next 4. You have NO idea. JD is evaluating just that. I'd love to see this board if we pick Becton and he takes years to develop because he rose up the draft boards due to a good combine and not how he graded out on the field and Jeudy is crushing it for another team while Sam again has no separation with his receivers against good secondaries.  Do you even know which tackles fit our system better - I can assure you not all 4 of them do. It's how a line gels. Peart could end up being a better fit than Thomas due to scheme. So should you pick him there and not with our second pick and bypass another need? You pick the best player at OL or WR - you just don't blindly pick a guy that doesn't fit your team just because. The guy was an OT - he should know. Last year our problems also had to deal with a lack of time together and then injuries crushed their continuity. It takes time to gel and you can't have all young guys on a line unless you want the QB to get killed. 

[Jets723]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

Not impossible that the Jets could trade up if the receiver they like is still on the board. 

No trade up.  We can’t afford to lose more draft capital.  I don’t mind staying put at 11 but I would trade down to gain more picks

[Jet_Engine1]

6 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I raise you a bullsh*t. You have no idea if the people Douglas wants are the people the draft guys like. There is major value in the top 2 rounds at OT. You don't think McGovern can play center?! Van Roten can't hold his own? Where exactly was our weakness last year - up the middle. Stop acting like the top 4 guys are going to be any better than the next 4. You have NO idea. JD is evaluating just that. I'd love to see this board if we pick Becton and he takes years to develop because he rose up the draft boards due to a good combine and not how he graded out on the field and Jeudy is crushing it for another team while Sam again has no separation with his receivers against good secondaries.  Do you even know which tackles fit our system better - I can assure you not all 4 of them do. It's how a line gels. Peart could end up being a better fit than Thomas due to scheme. So should you pick him there and not with our second pick and bypass another need? You pick the best player at OL or WR - you just don't blindly pick a guy that doesn't fit your team just because. The guy was an OT - he should know. Last year our problems also had to deal with a lack of time together and then injuries crushed their continuity. It takes time to gel and you can't have all young guys on a line unless you want the QB to get killed. 

So, your answer is "we dont know, so **** it, let's keep putting off improving the most important position group on an NFL team"? 

 

Cool story, bro. ?

 

In all seriousness,  I wouldn't mind if Joe completely ignored D in the first 2 days of the draft and went OL/WR every pick until the 5th round. 

After 15 years of prioritizing Defense, against all logic of the modern NFL, it's time to join the 21st Century and build a competitive Offense. 

 

And I agree, there are guys at the top who aren't perfect fits, but I bet you Cleveland and Jones are gone by 48. I don't want Becton particularly,  he got away with poor technique in College because he was just big and strong, and I think his weight will become an issue  but I think Thomas and Wills can function in any system, and Cleveland and Jones are a good fit for outside zone teams, and I think both are gone by 40. 

 

After that, we're back to the discount bin, which is where the Edogas and Shells of the world live. We tried that. Doesn't work. 

 

And I like Jeudy and Lamb, but I DO NOT see them that far ahead of guys that will be available in the third round, tbh. 

[UnknownJetFan]

4 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I love the idea but the dead cap hit for Quinnen is brutal. We actually lose an additional $9m in cap space this year if we trade Quinnen. Not to mention we probably lose value from the gun situation. 

I would still make this move if possible though.

 

#11 - 1,250 points

#16 - 1,000 points - they'd have to throw in a 3rd and 4th to balance it out or perhaps we can throw in a pick that pushes the value higher and receive a 2nd round pick instead.

Now that I think about it Falcons were probably one of the teams showing interest in QW last trade deadline. I'd pull the trigger on this(no pun intended) since we have been putting so many resources in the D over the years with drafting and over time now trading those resources to transfer resources to the O, i.e Richardson 2nd round pick helped us get Darnold, and we need some more of that since whether it be raft picks or $ drained from the D we need that transfer to the O to help Darnold and basically our D has exceptional top notch coaching compared to coaching on our O being questionable at best to disastrous at worst. I mean when your 22 yr old FQBR has to tell the coaching on O what best fits hi and the rest of the O players what plays, scheme, etc. to run then the coching needs to improve. Though maybe Darnold is a better football mind than the coaches on our O are and he can continue that and be a coach on the field like P. Manning was.

[Villain The Foe]

20 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I get what you're saying, but great players elevate players around them. Good players do not. If you have a great player they can changed the dynamic of a game and cover weaknesses. In the case of a WR, they can get open when the game is on the line or allow someone else to get open. We have great players on D - Adams, Mosely and possibly a couple others that may grow into one. We need more on offense. This division is there for the taking if we draft well. One stud T and one great WR and BOOM! 

Great players are few and far between. Great players can change the dynamic of a game and cover weaknesses, but if you have good players, which are more plentiful then you have less holes to cover with great players. 

That same approach is why QB's are now "Franchise QB's" because teams are trying to get great QB's to cover the fact that GM's and owners either arent or dont know how to build a team. Look at Andy Reid. Everywhere he goes he knows how to build a football team. That team was stacked with talent before Mahomes was even a pro. Mahomes didnt cover up holes on that team, he was simply a great player who was vastly better than a good player in Alex Smith. Alex being the good player that he is was a top half QB in the NFL, just not elite like Mahomes. 

 

Sometimes you can have a great player and basically squander their talent because you have nothing around them. Look at what Minkah Fitzpatrick was going through out in Miami, and the moment he got to the Steelers (along with some defensive adjustment issues that were satisfied) dude took off like a rocket and immediately became a DPOTY candidate. 

It goes to show how much better that Steelers defense also made Minkah Fitzpatrick. 

[TNJet]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

Atlanta is in DIRE need of an Dline & Edge Rusher. The Falcons need defense to compliment their offense against the Saints & now Brady is in the same division. Could they be targeting, Patrick Queen or Kinlaw? They could be there at 11 based on a lot of mock drafts. 

Right outside of the top 10. I truly believe if the opportunity arises JD would prefer to move back. 16 is a great spot in this draft. 

Of course I believe if Wirfs, Wills, or Becton are there we're taking our 10 year LT. 

The only way I trade down is if the Ts are gone.

[Greensleeves]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Bull, we only need one 2nd rounder on oline after totally neglecting it for a decade?

It ALL starts with the oline on offense, all aspects of your offense.

The goal should be to build a great oline not a 'can get by' oline.

As for Quinnen, he is meh and will be Leo version 2 a guy that is almost good, almost gets to the QB will be better next year for 5 years.

A 3rd overall pick DT is not a developmental player.

After signing a center and guard and three other guys in FA you can hardly call it neglect. There is a strong case to be made that Sam needs a #1 receiver and we can pick a solid tackle in the second round. There is also a strong argument to be made picking tackle first and WR second. Being inflexible about that is what gets a team in trouble and you reach for a player that doesn't fit and underperforms. You guys will be quick to kill JD for picking the wrong Olineman if that is what happens. I said it before - you cannot put several rookies into a starting line unless you want Darnold killed. They have a lot to learn and need time. The vets can help one of them along that is a 1st or second rounder, but not two IMO. It's all about being able to gel as a unit. I would be more than happy with WR, OL, OL, WR or T, WR, WR, OL in the first four picks. I doubt that is going to happen, but would be happy with it. I also think we sign Peters before the draft. If that's the case we will be going WR in round 1 or trading back if we can. You guys have to stop acting like passing on OL in the first round is neglecting the line. It's not. Our first 4 picks are critical this year in a  draft rich at OL and WR.

I think Q is going to be a beast, so let's agree to disagree on that one. It's way too early to write off a guy like that who was injured for part of his first year and is really young. I watched him blow up several plays all on his own. He'll do more of that after he has a year in the system.

[Dcat]

5 hours ago, UnknownJetFan said:

 

Or, since they want a DL that bad would they take QW for their #16 and their 2nd rounder this year, then we keep our #11?.

this is ridiculous on many different fronts.  Both from the Jets viewpoint and from the Atlanta viewpoint.  

[NYJ1]

8 hours ago, JetNation said:

With the NFL draft now fewer than three weeks away, rumors are sure to start swirling and there was one out of Atlanta today regarding a possible trade down for Joe Douglas and the Jets.

It appears they are at least discussing moving up. We just recorded a new podcast today in which our scout again says ATL has spoken with the Jets about moving up to 11, but the feeling is they may try to go higher than that. https://t.co/s1oFPWmE6V

— Paul Crane (@PaulCrane7) April 3, 2020

 

 

Atlanta sports radio reporter Paul Crane of 92.9 The Game, claims that the Falcons, who are looking to move up from the 16th overall spot, have had some discussion with the Jets.  Crane also adds that Atlanta could be looking to move up higher than that.

If the Jets were to move down to the sixteenth pick, it could still leave them in position to grab a left tackle in Houston’s Josh Jones while adding draft capital.

The post Report: Jets Talking to Falcons About Trade Down appeared first on JetNation.com (NY Jets Blog & Forum).

Click here to read the full story...

First of all, assuming this report is true, this trade would only happen spur of the moment. Obviously, the Falcons have their eye on a certain player, and they would only trade with the Jets if the draft fell the way they think it's going to, necessitating the trade up.I

Second of all, Jets fans will need to trust in JD. A trade down would definitely put probably all of the top 4 Tackles out of reach and the two top WR's as well. If the article is correct, then Douglas thinks Josh Jones would be good value at 16? 

[Augustiniak]

34 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I get what you're saying, but great players elevate players around them. Good players do not. If you have a great player they can changed the dynamic of a game and cover weaknesses. In the case of a WR, they can get open when the game is on the line or allow someone else to get open. We have great players on D - Adams, Mosely and possibly a couple others that may grow into one. We need more on offense. This division is there for the taking if we draft well. One stud T and one great WR and BOOM! 

It would be a shame if douglas traded back and filled the roster with the 5th best OT, the 12th best wr and the 16th best wr when he could stay at 11 and get the best wr and the 7th or 8th best OT.  

[Greensleeves]

14 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

So, your answer is "we dont know, so **** it, let's keep putting off improving the most important position group on an NFL team"? 

 

Cool story, bro. ?

 

In all seriousness,  I wouldn't mind if Joe completely ignored D in the first 2 days of the draft and went OL/WR every pick until the 5th round. 

After 15 years of prioritizing Defense, against all logic of the modern NFL, it's time to join the 21st Century and build a competitive Offense. 

 

And I agree, there are guys at the top who aren't perfect fits, but I bet you Cleveland and Jones are gone by 48. I don't want Becton particularly,  he got away with poor technique in College because he was just big and strong, and I think his weight will become an issue  but I think Thomas and Wills can function in any system, and Cleveland and Jones are a good fit for outside zone teams, and I think both are gone by 40. 

 

After that, we're back to the discount bin, which is where the Edogas and Shells of the world live. We tried that. Doesn't work. 

 

And I like Jeudy and Lamb, but I DO NOT see them that far ahead of guys that will be available in the third round, tbh. 

I agree with a lot of what you said, but not picking OL in the first round isn't neglecting the position if the next two picks are OL in a draft rich at OL. You get that, right? I would be just as happy with OL, WR, WR, OL, or WR, OL, OL, WR. Just think it's wrong to be closed to either IMO. Good to stay flexible, man. 

[Gastineau Lives]

25 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I raise you a bullsh*t. You have no idea if the people Douglas wants are the people the draft guys like. There is major value in the top 2 rounds at OT. You don't think McGovern can play center?! Van Roten can't hold his own? Where exactly was our weakness last year - up the middle. Stop acting like the top 4 guys are going to be any better than the next 4. You have NO idea. JD is evaluating just that. I'd love to see this board if we pick Becton and he takes years to develop because he rose up the draft boards due to a good combine and not how he graded out on the field and Jeudy is crushing it for another team while Sam again has no separation with his receivers against good secondaries.  Do you even know which tackles fit our system better - I can assure you not all 4 of them do. It's how a line gels. Peart could end up being a better fit than Thomas due to scheme. So should you pick him there and not with our second pick and bypass another need? You pick the best player at OL or WR - you just don't blindly pick a guy that doesn't fit your team just because. The guy was an OT - he should know. Last year our problems also had to deal with a lack of time together and then injuries crushed their continuity. It takes time to gel and you can't have all young guys on a line unless you want the QB to ge

 

[Philc1]

29 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Not impossible that the Jets could trade up if the receiver they like is still on the board. 

If they trade down it’s because JD wants Mims in the later first rd

[Dcat]

3 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Both

that's a lot of cumulative inches.

[Jetster]

4 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

We see trade ups all the time in the first rd.  In order for someone to trade up, someone has to trade down.    

As far as the Jets trading down in there 1st, I believe it was 97 with Parcells blowing our number one overall pick.  There value he got back for that pick is laughable. Then he went to UVA to grab a LB in Farrior.  I think we basically got Dedric Ward out of it.  Lame! 

We passed on Orlando Pace AND Walter Jones to make that trade. Add to it Boulware, Shawn Springs and Tony Gonzales. lol 

2 HOF Left Tackles! Damn!

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, Jetster said:

2 HOF Left Tackles! Damn!

That's ok, there at least four of them in this year's draft, apparently. 

[Barry McCockinner]

2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

 

Big 4 off the board at 16 again, but you might like this one a little better.

[Jetster]

41 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

It would be a shame if douglas traded back and filled the roster with the 5th best OT, the 12th best wr and the 16th best wr when he could stay at 11 and get the best wr and the 7th or 8th best OT.  

I'm gonna go out on a limb here & say the 1st WR taken in this draft has just as much chance of being the best WR as the NEXT 4 WRs taken in the 2020 draft. 

[TheClashFan]

Right now, the Jets have only 2 legitimate OT: Fant and Edoga, both are penciled in as starters, which is very risky.  Pretty much everyone else are interior linemen.

The Jets should draft at least 2 OT in the draft, and probably sign a JAG free agent to have 5 guys working in camp, whenever that may be. I'm not saying the Jets MUST draft OT with the first pick but if one of those elite 3-4 guys is there at #11, please take him. If they go WR in the first, then go OT in the 2nd.

[Jetsfan80]

No thanks. Quality over quantity. If these means we miss on one of the top wrs no thanks

 

No reason we have to sacrifice quality by moving down a few spots. Good GMs can easily get a player at 16 that they would have also taken at 11 and nail the pick.

 

We haven’t had a good GM since basically forever, so we don’t know what that looks like.

[Jets723]

3 minutes ago, TheClashFan said:

Right now, the Jets have only 2 legitimate OT: Fant and Edoga, both are penciled in as starters, which is very risky.  Pretty much everyone else are interior linemen.

The Jets should draft at least 2 OT in the draft, and probably sign a JAG free agent to have 5 guys working in camp, whenever that may be. I'm not saying the Jets MUST draft OT with the first pick but if one of those elite 3-4 guys is there at #11, please take him. If they go WR in the first, then go OT in the 2nd.

Who said they won’t draft OT?  I mean it’s a forgone conclusion that OL will be a big target by Douglas given his background in that position.  Whether we stay at 11 or trade back it doesn’t change that.  Even if we take a WR in the first round you can bet we will pick OL in the 2nd and even 3rd Rounds.  I’ve seen many great OT/OL drafted in the middle rounds too 

[Jetsfan80]

Trade down to 16. Then trade back up into the bottom of the 1st round, ending up with picks 16 and about 30.

 

Boom, now we have 2 young, talented players under team control for 5 years.

[JAFJET]

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

doug jolley is all you need to know.

Thanks for reminding me and the cherry on the cake that year was taking a kicker Mike Nugent with the second round pick.

[Augustiniak]

17 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here & say the 1st WR taken in this draft has just as much chance of being the best WR as the NEXT 4 WRs taken in the 2020 draft. 

Perhaps.  But a good gm doesn’t take an OT who is rated much lower than a wr, just b/c they need an OT.  When the jets pick comes up at 11, i would wager that the highest rated players on their board will be the wrs. 

[Philc1]

19 minutes ago, TheClashFan said:

Right now, the Jets have only 2 legitimate OT: Fant and Edoga, both are penciled in as starters, which is very risky.  Pretty much everyone else are interior linemen.

The Jets should draft at least 2 OT in the draft, and probably sign a JAG free agent to have 5 guys working in camp, whenever that may be. I'm not saying the Jets MUST draft OT with the first pick but if one of those elite 3-4 guys is there at #11, please take him. If they go WR in the first, then go OT in the 2nd.

Calling Edoga legitimate is a stretch 

[Joe the Breadman]

4 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

 In every mock draft simulation I have done if I pick a WR in the 1st, the value of players diminishes in the following rounds. This does not happen when I pick OT at #11.

I have the same results. When i choose one of the big4 the rest of the draft seemingly just falls into place.

 

I always seem to choose 2 each OT/WR/EDGE/CB. Not a bad formula....as ling as OT is the,first selection.

[bla bla bla]

2 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Now go fix your JD shirt with the inverted plane. LOL 

haha wouldn't look like a cross then

[Beerfish]

34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Trade down to 16. Then trade back up into the bottom of the 1st round, ending up with picks 16 and about 30.

 

Boom, now we have 2 young, talented players under team control for 5 years.

This is just the type of thing ozzie newsome used to do and what I was going to do in a jets mock i am working on.