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Pre-Draft O-Line Breakdown: Plenty of Additions, but More Help Needed

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Alex-Lewis.jpg

The Jets have made several additions along the offensive line with left tackle George Fant, left guard Alex Lewis, center Connor McGovern and C/G Josh Andrews getting new deals from Joe Douglas to repair what was the worst offensive line in the NFL in 2019.  So how does the starting group currently look and where is more competition needed for depth spots?  Let’s take a look at the starting five and beyond based on how the roster is shaped today.

LT: George Fant:  Fant can’t be viewed as the long-term answer at left tackle for the Jets and will likely compete on the right side with Chuma Edoga after the Jets take an offensive tackle with the 11th overall pick in the draft.  Even after several years in the league, Fant is viewed as a project who was a converted tight end.  He has the athleticism that the Jets covet, but there wasn’t much of a market for him in free agency and the Jets handed him a multi-year deal that they can get out of after one season if things don’t work out.

LG: Alex Lewis: Lewis was far from spectacular last season with the Jets but simply being adequate on last year’s line was a breath of fresh air.  He got a 3-year deal from Joe Douglas but as an average player who commits a ton of penalties, the Jets should be looking to draft an interior lineman to eventually challenge for his spot.

C Connor McGovern: The most important addition on the O-line as the Jets finally fix a center position that has been a complete disaster since the departure of Nick Mangold.  McGovern is no superstar, but he’s an above average player who will erase one of the biggest concerns the Jets have had for years.  There has been talk of McGovern possibly playing guard, but the wise move here would be to let the proven vet man the pivot and help with protections.

RG Brian Winters: As he is the incumbent who is still on the roster we’re listing Winters as the starting guard but we’d be shocked if he’s not let go before the season starts.  The Jets have virtually no cap space at this point and letting the injury-prone Winters go would save them $7.2 million.  He’s a warrior in the trenches but injuries in recent years have made him a liability.

RT Chuma Edoga: As is the case with Fant, this projection is simply based on the current make-up of the roster.  Come opening day, we expect Fant to hold down the right tackle spot.  If not, that would mean the Jets paid over $7 million for a back-up/swing tackle.  Not a wise move.

Reserves:

G Greg Van Roten: As stated above, we expect Van Roten to start at right guard unless the Jets draft an interior lineman with a chance to beat him out.

Watching more Greg Van Roten (73) today. Thing that jumped out most was his ability to stall a bull rush in pass protection. This one against Deforest Buckner. Have to love the price tag Joe D got him for if he wins a starting job. pic.twitter.com/9lvrwnbnUY

— Glenn Naughton (@AceFan23) April 1, 2020

C Jonotthan Harrison: A proven veteran who has shown he can step in when called upon and provide adequate play at center.  With a $2.5 million price tag, keeping Harrison around makes a ton of sense.

OT Conor McDermott: A depth piece who started two games for the Jets last season and performed admirably for an inexperienced backup.  You would have to believe he’ll be given a shot to win a roster spot once again.

OG Ben Braden: Braden is an interesting player in that he was brought in as an undrafted free agent a few years ago by Mike Maccagnan before the Jets cut him last season.  After a few seconds on the Packers practice squad, Joe Douglas brought him back and then retained him on a futures contract.  A run blocker who is a bit stiff in the hips, Braden has found a way to stick round for three years despite not being drafted.  Could he have a real chance at a backup role?

C/G Josh Andrews: Andrews has played only a handful of NFL snaps but is known to Joe Douglas from their time together in Philadelphia.  Whether or not he’ll make the roster is anyone’s guess at this point.

OG James Murray: A Kansas City Chiefs castoff, Murray was added by Joe Douglas during the season last year but quickly landed on season-ending IR.

OG Brad Lundblade: An Oklahoma State product who has little chance to stick around for long.  Has appeared in just one NFL game on special teams with the Panthers in 2019.  Lundblade’s shows decent strength on film and a good motor but his lack of athleticism is a concern.

OL Corbin Kaufusi: A college defensive lineman who has transitioned to the O-line in the NFL with no real film availalbe to evaluate.  What a perfect recipe to predict future success or failure.  The 6′ 9” 330 lb Kaufusi is a total unknown at this point.

OL Leo Koloamatangi: The former Hawaii product has yet to play an NFL snap but showed a great deal of versatility in college where he played up and down the O-line.  The Jets are expected to give him a look at center but his chances of sticking around aren’t good with McGovern and Harrison in the fold.

So while the Jets have made strides in upgrading their starting five, look for them to spend the 11th pick on a tackle along with at least one other lineman to compete when the NFL draft commences just a few weeks from now.

 

 

The post Pre-Draft O-Line Breakdown: Plenty of Additions, but More Help Needed appeared first on JetNation.com (NY Jets Blog & Forum).

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Starters will look a lot better once they take a LT in rd 1 and some decent depth at cetner.  Beyond that it's a bunch of unknowns.  Should be taking at least one interior lineman in the draft as well.

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With them adding GVR and Andrews both with center experience, just a gut instinct, they've seen enough of Harrison.

 

 

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the true test is when these guys finally get into training camp and start playing together.  this virus has really put a crimp in getting the team together for ota's. 

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Adding a Tackle in the draft will help move some pieces around on this offensive line. We definitely don't need to see guys like Winters and and Harrison on the field. Cut Winters and keep Harrison as depth piece. 

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Add Peters and draft a LT to watch and learn from him especially with the uncertainty of things going into next year then I will feel pretty good about the OLine.

 

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Who thinks anyone they draft will be starting at LEFT TACKLE this year — and be good???? That’s funny. 

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13 hours ago, JetNation said:

Alex-Lewis.jpg

The Jets have made several additions along the offensive line with left tackle George Fant, left guard Alex Lewis, center Connor McGovern and C/G Josh Andrews getting new deals from Joe Douglas to repair what was the worst offensive line in the NFL in 2019.  So how does the starting group currently look and where is more competition needed for depth spots?  Let’s take a look at the starting five and beyond based on how the roster is shaped today.

LT: George Fant:  Fant can’t be viewed as the long-term answer at left tackle for the Jets and will likely compete on the right side with Chuma Edoga after the Jets take an offensive tackle with the 11th overall pick in the draft.  Even after several years in the league, Fant is viewed as a project who was a converted tight end.  He has the athleticism that the Jets covet, but there wasn’t much of a market for him in free agency and the Jets handed him a multi-year deal that they can get out of after one season if things don’t work out.

LG: Alex Lewis: Lewis was far from spectacular last season with the Jets but simply being adequate on last year’s line was a breath of fresh air.  He got a 3-year deal from Joe Douglas but as an average player who commits a ton of penalties, the Jets should be looking to draft an interior lineman to eventually challenge for his spot.

C Connor McGovern: The most important addition on the O-line as the Jets finally fix a center position that has been a complete disaster since the departure of Nick Mangold.  McGovern is no superstar, but he’s an above average player who will erase one of the biggest concerns the Jets have had for years.  There has been talk of McGovern possibly playing guard, but the wise move here would be to let the proven vet man the pivot and help with protections.

RG Brian Winters: As he is the incumbent who is still on the roster we’re listing Winters as the starting guard but we’d be shocked if he’s not let go before the season starts.  The Jets have virtually no cap space at this point and letting the injury-prone Winters go would save them $7.2 million.  He’s a warrior in the trenches but injuries in recent years have made him a liability.

RT Chuma Edoga: As is the case with Fant, this projection is simply based on the current make-up of the roster.  Come opening day, we expect Fant to hold down the right tackle spot.  If not, that would mean the Jets paid over $7 million for a back-up/swing tackle.  Not a wise move.

Reserves:

G Greg Van Roten: As stated above, we expect Van Roten to start at right guard unless the Jets draft an interior lineman with a chance to beat him out.

Watching more Greg Van Roten (73) today. Thing that jumped out most was his ability to stall a bull rush in pass protection. This one against Deforest Buckner. Have to love the price tag Joe D got him for if he wins a starting job. pic.twitter.com/9lvrwnbnUY

— Glenn Naughton (@AceFan23) April 1, 2020

 

C Jonotthan Harrison: A proven veteran who has shown he can step in when called upon and provide adequate play at center.  With a $2.5 million price tag, keeping Harrison around makes a ton of sense.

OT Conor McDermott: A depth piece who started two games for the Jets last season and performed admirably for an inexperienced backup.  You would have to believe he’ll be given a shot to win a roster spot once again.

OG Ben Braden: Braden is an interesting player in that he was brought in as an undrafted free agent a few years ago by Mike Maccagnan before the Jets cut him last season.  After a few seconds on the Packers practice squad, Joe Douglas brought him back and then retained him on a futures contract.  A run blocker who is a bit stiff in the hips, Braden has found a way to stick round for three years despite not being drafted.  Could he have a real chance at a backup role?

C/G Josh Andrews: Andrews has played only a handful of NFL snaps but is known to Joe Douglas from their time together in Philadelphia.  Whether or not he’ll make the roster is anyone’s guess at this point.

OG James Murray: A Kansas City Chiefs castoff, Murray was added by Joe Douglas during the season last year but quickly landed on season-ending IR.

OG Brad Lundblade: An Oklahoma State product who has little chance to stick around for long.  Has appeared in just one NFL game on special teams with the Panthers in 2019.  Lundblade’s shows decent strength on film and a good motor but his lack of athleticism is a concern.

OL Corbin Kaufusi: A college defensive lineman who has transitioned to the O-line in the NFL with no real film availalbe to evaluate.  What a perfect recipe to predict future success or failure.  The 6′ 9” 330 lb Kaufusi is a total unknown at this point.

OL Leo Koloamatangi: The former Hawaii product has yet to play an NFL snap but showed a great deal of versatility in college where he played up and down the O-line.  The Jets are expected to give him a look at center but his chances of sticking around aren’t good with McGovern and Harrison in the fold.

So while the Jets have made strides in upgrading their starting five, look for them to spend the 11th pick on a tackle along with at least one other lineman to compete when the NFL draft commences just a few weeks from now.

 

 

The post Pre-Draft O-Line Breakdown: Plenty of Additions, but More Help Needed appeared first on JetNation.com (NY Jets Blog & Forum).

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A 1st and 3rd on the line please!

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12 hours ago, bitonti said:

With them adding GVR and Andrews both with center experience, just a gut instinct, they've seen enough of Harrison.

 

 

I agree. Great dude, but his $2.25 mill salary is the difference between C.J. Mosley being overpaid to being vastly overpaid at $17 mill a season. Mitigate that by trimming unnecessary fat like Harrison.  save the dimes as we’ll already have adequate replacement centers.

LT at 11

IOL at 63 - cushenberry and Ruiz probably gone but guys like Hunt will be there

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seems very strange beefing the interior up in a nice and orderly fashion but having only Fant & Edoga at tackles.

maybe there are deals in place for Beachum or Peters to meet their price if the draft doesn't fall our way.  That would also leave some element of chance that another team will outbid us for their services ... feels weird having that up in the air.  Maybe more likely they are trying to get Peters on a 1 year out clause deal, but if he does not take it then they have a Beachum deal already basically agreed to as a fall-back ... similar to what was done with Robbie & Fant.  This decision should be made before the draft. 

I can't imagine him just sitting there at 11 just hoping the OT he wants will fall to us either.  That isn't sound business either.  So, either he values 4/5 of them enough to be confident at least 1 will be there, or he has a deal lined up to move up if necessary, or he values one or more of the "2nd tier" OT's to be secure that they will be there at 11 or secure enough to trade down a little.  Even the trade down scenario is leaving an element of chance though.

very strange how we sit at OT right now

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1 hour ago, ljr said:

seems very strange beefing the interior up in a nice and orderly fashion but having only Fant & Edoga at tackles.

 

not that one would do this but go back, watch every snap from 2019 

the line was crap but the problem was interior, namely guard and center. Kalil was a joke, KO mailed it in and the line stabilized at the end of the season when Winters left the lineup too (playing through injuries forever is heroic but also dumb). 

side note I suspect they cut Winters when he can pass a physical, Avery Williamson too. No team needs this many guards and inside linebackers. (Or they take massive pay cuts)

Beachum did play with 2 sprained ankles or something but when healthy he was fine. Fant can be fine too and so can Edoga. Yes they need a long term solution but, again, watch the film (i think NFL Game pass is free currently). 

projected Line "top 8" for 2020

LT - Fant

LG - Lewis

C - McGovern

RG - GVR

RT - Edoga

Swing tackle - Rookie draft pick (rd2-3) (*NOTE IF THEY TAKE AN OT IN RD 1 that rookie would start)

Backup center/guard - Josh Andrews

8th guy who never sees the field - Conor McDermott or another mid-late draft pick 

 

practice squad - Leo K and Kaufusi 

 

 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

 

Beachum did play with 2 sprained ankles or something but when healthy he was fine. Fant can be fine too and so can Edoga. Yes they need a long term solution but, again, watch the film (i think NFL Game pass is free currently). 

projected Line "top 8" for 2020

LT - Fant

RT - Edoga

Swing tackle - Rookie draft pick (rd2-3) (*NOTE IF THEY TAKE AN OT IN RD 1 that rookie would start)

 

 

I'm with you on everything, but not sure you got my point regarding the tackle spots.

what you say here is exactly how I feel too  ... Fant & Edoga " CAN " be fine.

I hope they will be fine ... but these are both question-marks

I think Beachum " can " definitely be a "hold-the-fort" guy for this year, but he is not on the roster yet.  so this is also a question-mark.

---

very strange to me

JD addressed interior line very well.

The only thing we have at OT on the roster are 2 question-marks??

JD's has said he will be steady and thorough his tenure, he has been steady and thorough at other positions.

We know he must have plans & back-up plans & back-up to those back-up plans ... but as our OT roster sits right now doesn't match his MO

Drafting an OT early in the draft is a must ... but how he transitions to the NFL will also be a question-mark heading into the season.

I'm sure there must be reasoning time-related to what he will do, but ...

---

2 questions marks right now

2 question marks that should/could be on the roster by training camp

I just wish we had one or two of these in a secure status right now.

 

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16 minutes ago, ljr said:

JD addressed interior line very well.

The only thing we have at OT on the roster are 2 question-marks??

JD's has said he will be steady and thorough his tenure, he has been steady and thorough at other positions.

We know he must have plans & back-up plans & back-up to those back-up plans ... but as our OT roster sits right now doesn't match his MO

Drafting an OT early in the draft is a must ... but how he transitions to the NFL will also be a question-mark heading into the season.

the Jets offense was the least explosive in football last year

*and they lost their most explosive WR in Robby*

adding a Left tackle doesn't really fix that problem

if JD is such a great drafter he should be able to fix the LT problem at rd 3 prices 

meanwhile there's no guarantee these guys can develop a 3rd round WR. I don't think we've seen it done since the days of Brad Smith  

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1 minute ago, bitonti said:

the Jets offense was the least explosive in football last year

*and they lost their most explosive WR in Robby*

adding a Left tackle doesn't really fix that problem

if JD is such a great drafter he should be able to fix the LT problem at rd 3 prices 

meanwhile there's no guarantee these guys can develop a 3rd round WR. I don't think we've seen it done since the days of Brad Smith  

 

I have not been talking about WR, here at all ... I don't care (in this thread's discussion) about fixing WR

I do care about fixing LT (and RT for that matter)

---

If JD can be a great drafter and fix the LT spot in round 3 that would be awesome.  Not having an established answer at the position going into the draft & then not drafting one until the 3rd round though is super-crazy ... this would then change that question-mark here, that I had discussed in my prior post, to a super-question-mark.

now instead of 2 question marks on the roster and 2 question marks that we hope are answered by the time the draft is over

what you are suggesting would result in

2 question-marks at OT on the roster, 1 question mark, and 1 super-question-mark regarding the position after the draft

----

responding to the comment about developing a 3rd round WR or not ... again WR has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

---

What I am talking about is that I would like less question-marks, and more solid answers at the LT/RT positions

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3 minutes ago, ljr said:

 

I have not been talking about WR, here at all ... I don't care (in this thread's discussion) about fixing WR

I do care about fixing LT (and RT for that matter)

----

responding to the comment about developing a 3rd round WR or not ... again WR has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

---

What I am talking about is that I would like less question-marks, and more solid answers at the LT/RT positions

this is my point

the fans have become too focused on "FIXING THE OL" after Douglas has brought in new starters at 3 of the 5 positions

the only thing they've tried to fix this offseason so far has been the line. 

The WR need is worse. CB2 is a mystery. The Edge need is also fairly dire.

the fans are like LINE LINE LINE 

meanwhile the league runs on points they aren't winning any games 14-9 anymore like in the Rex Ryan era

in fact if this team went WR in rd 1 AND WR again in rd 2 it would start to fix what is wrong with the offense

drafting Becton and having him give Sam 10 seconds to throw (yeah right) doesn't fix the problem they have no one worth throwing to except Crowder and Ryan Griffin. And neither one of those guys are game breakers

you want to give Sam time? make teams scared to blitz him 

 

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29 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is my point

the fans have become too focused on "FIXING THE OL" after Douglas has brought in new starters at 3 of the 5 positions

the only thing they've tried to fix this offseason so far has been the line. 

The WR need is worse. CB2 is a mystery. The Edge need is also fairly dire.

the fans are like LINE LINE LINE 

meanwhile the league runs on points they aren't winning any games 14-9 anymore like in the Rex Ryan era

in fact if this team went WR in rd 1 AND WR again in rd 2 it would start to fix what is wrong with the offense

drafting Becton and having him give Sam 10 seconds to throw (yeah right) doesn't fix the problem they have no one worth throwing to except Crowder and Ryan Griffin. And neither one of those guys are game breakers

you want to give Sam time? make teams scared to blitz him 

 

 

So, if I'm interpreting your message here correctly

you believe that, regarding how our team stands now, the WR, CB2, & Edge positions are more important for us to address right now,than the LT & RT positions are.

that's cool

Obviously we all feel that all 5 positions are pressing needs and would like to see existing free agents, roster cut-down casualties and draft picks spent at all 5 spots and hope to have at least some answers, and not question marks, at these positions by the time the season starts.

---

I have been saying here, in this Pre-Draft O-Line Breakdown: Plenty of Additions, but More Help Needed

topic, that I want to see LT & RT better addressed.

 

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14 hours ago, Vader said:

Who thinks anyone they draft will be starting at LEFT TACKLE this year — and be good???? That’s funny. 

Considering the top 4 OTs in this years draft are better than any lineman we had starting last year. Its a real possibility.

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8 minutes ago, ljr said:

 

So, if I'm interpreting your message here correctly

you believe that, regarding how our team stands now, the WR, CB2, & Edge positions are more important for us to address right now,than the LT & RT positions are.

 

 

I wouldn't use the phrase more important 

it's still important

What I'm saying is Joe Douglas, two time all state offensive lineman as a Prep in VA, 45 game starter for Richmond, coach, scout 20+ year NFL career might not HAVE to use 11 on a lineman in order to fix the line

they have picks all over the draft and not all of these top 4 even fit what Gase is trying to do 

this is a pure gut instinct he wants Jones and will trade away from the top 4 if given the opportunity 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

if JD is such a great drafter he should be able to fix the LT problem at rd 3 prices 

meanwhile there's no guarantee these guys can develop a 3rd round WR. I don't think we've seen it done since the days of Brad Smith  

Problem is, they're are just a handful of LT's in the league that aren't 1st rounders. Seems like that's the only way to fix the o-line (use a high draft pick).

Conversely, most of the top WR's in the league are NOT 1st rounders. I can only name 5.

Judging by the quantity of quality WR's in this year's draft, it seems like we're better off doing what the rest of the NFL is doing and using our 2nd and 3rd rounder on WR's (not 1st rounder).

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51 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this is my point

the fans have become too focused on "FIXING THE OL" after Douglas has brought in new starters at 3 of the 5 positions

the only thing they've tried to fix this offseason so far has been the line. 

The WR need is worse. CB2 is a mystery. The Edge need is also fairly dire.

the fans are like LINE LINE LINE 

meanwhile the league runs on points they aren't winning any games 14-9 anymore like in the Rex Ryan era

in fact if this team went WR in rd 1 AND WR again in rd 2 it would start to fix what is wrong with the offense

drafting Becton and having him give Sam 10 seconds to throw (yeah right) doesn't fix the problem they have no one worth throwing to except Crowder and Ryan Griffin. And neither one of those guys are game breakers

you want to give Sam time? make teams scared to blitz him 

 

 

5 minutes ago, ljr said:

 

So, if I'm interpreting your message here correctly

you believe that, regarding how our team stands now, the WR, CB2, & Edge positions are more important for us to address right now,than the LT & RT positions are.

that's cool

Obviously we all feel that all 5 positions are pressing needs and would like to see existing free agents, roster cut-down casualties and draft picks spent at all 5 spots and hope to have at least some answers, and not question marks, at these positions by the time the season starts.

---

I have been saying here, in this Pre-Draft O-Line Breakdown: Plenty of Additions, but More Help Needed

topic, that I want to see LT & RT better addressed.

 

Squarely in camp @ljr here. 

@bitonti is an excellent poster and I've been reading his posts here for years and on the other site. But on this, I think he's completely wrong.

Take the tackle @ 11 and draft two WR's between the second and third rounds.

When it comes to defense, play kids (already on the roster, or sourced on day 3 of the draft), watch for cuts and sign cheap vets. 

The only thing that should matter this year is putting Darnold in position to reach his potential. I agree he desperately needs weapons. But the draft is deep at WR draft and top-heavy at OT. 

Granted, a lot of this is moot because we don't know how the board will fall. And of course, being prepared for any eventuality, there are scenarios in which I'm taking Jeudy @ 11. But if it's between Wills or Thomas and Jeudy, you're damn right I'm expecting us to take one of the tackles. If it's Becton or Wirfs, I'm far more torn about the decision. I'm actually a bigger fan of Josh Jones than either of those two considering Jones is probably a better, more consistent pass blocker right now than either of those two players. 

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20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I wouldn't use the phrase more important 

it's still important

What I'm saying is Joe Douglas, two time all state offensive lineman as a Prep in VA, 45 game starter for Richmond, coach, scout 20+ year NFL career might not HAVE to use 11 on a lineman in order to fix the line

they have picks all over the draft and not all of these top 4 even fit what Gase is trying to do 

this is a pure gut instinct he wants Jones and will trade away from the top 4 if given the opportunity 

I'd be very happy if we landed Jones after a trade down. I think that's an ideal situation - acquire a future LT with adequate, immediate pass-blocking skills and receive more picks in the process. I just worry about Tampa and Denver @ 14/15; both could use a tackle. 

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2 hours ago, TNJet said:

Considering the top 4 OTs in this years draft are better than any lineman we had starting last year. Its a real possibility.

It’s very unlikely 

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5 hours ago, bitonti said:

I wouldn't use the phrase more important 

it's still important

What I'm saying is Joe Douglas, two time all state offensive lineman as a Prep in VA, 45 game starter for Richmond, coach, scout 20+ year NFL career might not HAVE to use 11 on a lineman in order to fix the line

they have picks all over the draft and not all of these top 4 even fit what Gase is trying to do 

this is a pure gut instinct he wants Jones and will trade away from the top 4 if given the opportunity 

 

I'm on board with the belief that JD should have a better understanding/feel for OL than anyone, due to his history.

JD being as knowledgeable as he is regarding OT, I can't imagine him not also believing the idea that the "big 4" + Jones OT's are in a league of their own. ... that every other "expert" believes.

I do not believe JD will believe that the OT's he can pick outside of round 1 will be worth not getting one in round 1

If JD values Jones as the best fit for us and what Gase wants to do, and picks him at 11, I am excited to totally trust his judgement here on it as well.

If Jones is his guy and there at 11 though, and all we have on the roster is still the 2 question marksi I do not want to see the "trade back" game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ljr said:

 

I'm on board with the belief that JD should have a better understanding/feel for OL than anyone, due to his history.

JD being as knowledgeable as he is regarding OT, I can't imagine him not also believing the idea that the "big 4" + Jones OT's are in a league of their own. ... that every other "expert" believes.

 

 

I don't know how JD sees it but I bet his top tier is not 5 players wide

This is my interpretation of how JD/Gase probably grades/values these players - because it is only my interpretation, it is undoubtedly flawed. Still...

Tier 1 - the "Nice to Haves"

Becton - Blue Chip - Super Rare Athlete Scheme Diverse. Top 5-10

Thomas - Blue Chip - Big Game SEC Experience, Rare Arm Length, Instant LT starter - Top 5-10

 

Tier 2 - the "Jeez I hope these guys are gone before I have to make a decision"

Wirfs - Red Chip - Gase will say he's short. No LT snaps on record, decent RT, possibly exceptional All Pro RG. Kinda like Brandon Scherff in other words. Top 20.

Wills - Red Chip - Gase will say he's short. No LT snaps on record, Good Man to Man RT but penalty prone (which JD hates). Top 20.

Tier 3 - the JD value offensive lineman experience  

Josh Jones - Red Chip - George Fant size, LT experience at Houston and Senior Bowl. Great zone scheme fit but short ish arms will take him off other team's board. Not worth 11. Jeremiah has him going 26th in the latest mock.  Could be 1st/2nd cusp grade. Man/Power run teams won't want him. 

 

and so on and so forth. My take is if tier 1 isn't there he's skipping to tier 3 and finding value at other needs.

the draft is not what you or I would do. I would take Wirfs assuming he's there. But it's overkill if he turns out "only" to be a great guard. 

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24 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I don't know how JD sees it but I bet his top tier is not 5 players wide

This is my interpretation of how JD/Gase probably grades/values these players - because it is only my interpretation, it is undoubtedly flawed. Still...

Tier 1 - the "Nice to Haves"

Becton - Blue Chip - Super Rare Athlete Scheme Diverse. Top 5-10

Thomas - Blue Chip - Big Game SEC Experience, Rare Arm Length, Instant LT starter - Top 5-10

 

Tier 2 - the "Jeez I hope these guys are gone before I have to make a decision"

Wirfs - Red Chip - Gase will say he's short. No LT snaps on record, decent RT, possibly exceptional All Pro RG. Kinda like Brandon Scherff in other words. Top 20.

Wills - Red Chip - Gase will say he's short. No LT snaps on record, Good Man to Man RT but penalty prone (which JD hates). Top 20.

Tier 3 - the JD value offensive lineman experience  

Josh Jones - Red Chip - George Fant size, LT experience at Houston and Senior Bowl. Great zone scheme fit but short ish arms will take him off other team's board. Not worth 11. Jeremiah has him going 26th in the latest mock.  Could be 1st/2nd cusp grade. Man/Power run teams won't want him. 

 

and so on and so forth. My take is if tier 1 isn't there he's skipping to tier 3 and finding value at other needs.

the draft is not what you or I would do. I would take Wirfs assuming he's there. But it's overkill if he turns out "only" to be a great guard. 

 

Thanks for those details on each of those 5 players and projected target area for them in the draft.

Def you and I and JD will all have different rankings what what order we view those 5 as a fit for the Jets.

Regardless of the differences on those 5, there seems to be a common theme of there being a significant drop when you move from them to the number 6 ranked OT.

---

I want us to have a veteran OT on the roster before the draft, so we have more than just 2 question marks for LT & RT

I also want us to pick, the who/where/how to be determined by JD's discretion , one of those 5 as our 1st pick.

I hope JD feels as I do.

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13 hours ago, ljr said:

 

Thanks for those details on each of those 5 players and projected target area for them in the draft.

Def you and I and JD will all have different rankings what what order we view those 5 as a fit for the Jets.

Regardless of the differences on those 5, there seems to be a common theme of there being a significant drop when you move from them to the number 6 ranked OT.

---

 

Tier 3 goes on for a few more names, I just got lazy.  the Jets could take Jackson, Peart, Cleveland etc it's actually a decent year for those types of player - but the key is to get Tier 3 players at tier 3 prices. 

by the way next year's tackle crop contains a player Penei Sewell from Oregon who will go higher than all of this year's "Top 4" - he's an elite Top 3 overall type of prospect who has started for the Ducks at LT since arriving on campus as a true freshman.  He's Isaac Sopoaga's nephew (nose tackle went to Hawaii, played 10+ years). 

 

 

 

 hopefully the Jets aren't picking top 3 but looking at the schedule, it's harder than last year's. Also there is a dude named Sam Cosmi from Texas who might be next year's Josh Jones. If JD cares what Gase wants, it's tall, agile, doesn't have to be especially long armed but zone LT

the thing about zone scheme is that LT doesn't necessarily have to be Orlando Pace or Walter Jones and many Jets fans are missing this forest among the tall trees.  Andrew Thomas or Penei Sewell would be cornerstones and awesome "hell yeah" type of picks but we should be prepared when they don't land the elite talent at tackle and build the offense around Sam Darnold and a "value" line. Darnold's going to need 100 million dollars ya know. 

 

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On 4/7/2020 at 12:37 AM, Vader said:

Who thinks anyone they draft will be starting at LEFT TACKLE this year — and be good???? That’s funny. 

Certainly not Week 1.  Whether people like it or not, Fant will be locked in as the Week 1 starter at LT. 

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On 4/7/2020 at 11:10 AM, ljr said:

seems very strange beefing the interior up in a nice and orderly fashion but having only Fant & Edoga at tackles.

Quality OT's don't tend to break loose in free agency.  Even a guy like Conklin had significant question marks in both the health and pass blocking departments.

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On 4/7/2020 at 2:15 PM, bitonti said:

the Jets offense was the least explosive in football last year

*and they lost their most explosive WR in Robby*

adding a Left tackle doesn't really fix that problem

if JD is such a great drafter he should be able to fix the LT problem at rd 3 prices 

meanwhile there's no guarantee these guys can develop a 3rd round WR. I don't think we've seen it done since the days of Brad Smith  

Without looking up draft history to try and prove the point, my gut says (and I think you would agree) that, as @Jetlife33 said in the Jeremiah Mock thread, it's easier to find franchise WR talent after round 1 than it is franchise LT talent.

Even if Joe D's background and strength is scouting O-linemen, you don't pass on the layup if it's there (at #11).

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Can’t we just all say the team has a ton of holes, free agency upgraded Center and downgraded at WR but that’s pretty much it on the offensive side of the ball - pretty much any offensive position taken in the first will be a good choice.

I prefer a Tackle, but if we end up with one of the two WR’s I’ll be happy as well.

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5 hours ago, bitonti said:

Tier 3 goes on for a few more names, I just got lazy.  the Jets could take Jackson, Peart, Cleveland etc it's actually a decent year for those types of player - but the key is to get Tier 3 players at tier 3 prices. 

 

the thing about zone scheme is that LT doesn't necessarily have to be Orlando Pace or Walter Jones and many Jets fans are missing this forest among the tall trees.  Andrew Thomas or Penei Sewell would be cornerstones and awesome "hell yeah" type of picks but we should be prepared when they don't land the elite talent at tackle and build the offense around Sam Darnold and a "value" line. Darnold's going to need 100 million dollars ya know. 

 

 

I'll def pay attention to Sewell this season, thx.

---

We've danced around a bunch of topics, so to make sure my original point didn't get lost 


We should draft OT with our 1st pick.

---

I have not been saying that I need a Walter Jones or an Orlando Pace clone.

Give me a D'brickashaw Ferguson clone ... I'll be happy as a pig in $h*t if we roll the dice on Andrew Thomas

---

JD play out your hand based on your OL and scouting background and acumen ... make sure you pick your OT of choice with our 1st rounder though.

---

You're saying that you want a 3rd tier OT at 3rd tier prices.  That means you do not want our 1st round pick to be an OT right?

---

As you said in one of your earlier posts, what I think doesn't matter and what you think doesn't matter ... all that matters is what JD thinks.

Agreed

---

Hope JD thinks the same as me and not as you

_________________________________________________________________

 

Edit - just re-read your earlier posts

 

If I'm interpreting it correct it looks like you are saying

you think JD will draft Becton or Thomas, and then if they are gone, Jones.

If all 3 of those are gone, then you believe he will choose another position in round 1 and seek value for price at OT in a later round.

---

I don't want to put words in your mouth, If I understood correctly though, I think you're choice would be

you would pick Wirfs at 11 if he's there.

I'm not sure what you'd like to go with if he's not there

Your detailed discussion about 3rd tier OT value and 3rd tier OT price, would lead me to believe that you are also thinking that the correct decision would be JD addressing another position in round 1 and circling back to OT later.

again, not trying to put words in your mouth.

---

Of course we all know that the whole situation is fluid and we'll have to see what happens on the board before us.

 

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Quality OT's don't tend to break loose in free agency.  Even a guy like Conklin had significant question marks in both the health and pass blocking departments.

Agreed ... we ain't getting a top shelf guy in FA

---

We should however have a Hold-the-fort veteran on the roster before the draft

We should also pick a LT with our round 1 pick, and hope that he turns into a quality OT who we won't let break loose in FA when his contract is up.

---

having 2 question marks as our starting LT & RT , and nothing else behind them, s*cks!

give me more

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18 hours ago, ljr said:

 

We've danced around a bunch of topics, so to make sure my original point didn't get lost 


We should draft OT with our 1st pick.

---

I have not been saying that I need a Walter Jones or an Orlando Pace clone.

Give me a D'brickashaw Ferguson clone ... I'll be happy as a pig in $h*t if we roll the dice on Andrew Thomas

 

Brick went 6 overall. Andrew Thomas will go in the same area. They both were blessed with 36+ inch arms, which is rare af and coveted among scouts. Josh Jones is a 33 and 5/8 that's why he's going in the 30's in mocks and Andrew Thomas is going top 5-10. 

You are expecting a top 5 talent to fall to 11 pick. That's not how it works. It's possible but unlikely.  

Becton and Thomas should be long gone by 11. I've been a huge Wirfs fan but he's also 50/50 to be there. lately I've been coming around on Henry Ruggs. This league is about points not who has the strongest line. 

It's a very dangerous mindset you have that they MUST go OT at 11. It could lock the team into a bad pick.  Wirfs could be Robert Gallery part II and have to move to guard. This is why I'm a message board poster not an NFL GM. 

and i'll say this part again because it appears you might have missed it/don't want to hear it - the draft is about not what you or I (the fans) want. It's about what JD and Gase are going to do. Predicting JD going OT at 11 presumes he wants an expensive line when everything he's done in FA says the opposite. 

He's going to build a value line and save room for the 100 million dollars Sam Darnold is going to need in the extension. 

I know, I know. You want to compartmentalize this discussion and ONLY talk about Line. You don't want to discuss the WR position or QB or coaching

but really the draft is about team building.   the Gase zone system doesn't need/want these Pro Bowl linemen. JD has been shopping at the OL bargain bin, more or less. They had the chance to sign Conklin. they still have 40 million in cap space if they wanted to. 

just my prediction they aren't building a Cowboys/Eagles level line with all pros at every spot and 11 isn't the ideal place to keep building one, even if that was the goal.

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5 hours ago, bitonti said:

....

and i'll say this part again because it appears you might have missed it/don't want to hear it - the draft is about not what you or I (the fans) want. It's about what JD and Gase are going to do. Predicting JD going OT at 11 presumes he wants an expensive line when everything he's done in FA says the opposite. 

....

 

OK, lol ... let me try this as my reply to you.

1 - I have admired and respected you here as a poster for many years.  I have learned a ton from you about the college kids coming out, the combine, pro-days, and the draft.

2 - At least in this conversation between us, you don't handle differing points of view from your own for $h*t!  lol, pardon the language. 

_____________

From everything that I have read from you, as far as I can tell, all that we disagree with is whether we should go LT or WR with our 1st round pick.

In discussing this though you have traveled the world and back.

When and if you respond to this please, for the love of all that's holy, pretty please do not bring up asparagus, nor Antarctica, nor aardvarks.

______________

I am first just going to respond to your latest post here.  Then after that, in a new post, I have summarized our entire conversation in this topic.  What the h*ll , i wasn't doing anything else today ... why not!

Probably no one else will care, likely you won't either, hopefully you will at least read this once.  No sweat though if you are like "f*ck that dude, i got better things to do"! lol

_________________________________________

_________________________________________

OK, first my response to your latest post

 

My talking about Brick or Thomas was my responding to your saying i believed I needed walter jones or orlando pace as my LT.  To be clear, i do not need a Hall of Famer as my LT.  I am looking for our best chance to have a respectable LT for the next decade.

To respond to your next point - I am not expecting a top 5 talent to fall to 11.  I am saying I want the top LT talent (according to JD and not me) to be our 1st round pick.  Whether JD believe he should trade up, stay at 11, or trade back for this, I am good trusting his judgement in how to make this happen.

---

Scoring points does not matter more than OL.  OL is a piece of the puzzle that allows us to score points, as are QB, WR, etc.  Picking an OT in round 1 hopefully will give us an opportunity to score more points than last season.

I agree that an LT at pick 11 may result in a bad pick.  So might trading up for one, so might trading back in round 1 for one, so might waiting until round 3 to draft one.  Picking WR at 11 might also result in a bad pick.  The draft is a crapshoot, we all know this.  However, the percentages that you don’t wind up with crap are better in round 1 than they are in round 3.

I agree that it is not what you want or what I want that will matter during the draft, instead it will be what JD wants.

You are completely wrong in saying that JD picking an LT in the draft means he is going the expensive route to get one???  Drafting one instead of getting one from free agency  is the cheaper way to do this.

I agree that OL by itself is not what makes up a team.  I agree that WR, QB, & HC are important to a team concept.  All of those things are important.  The reason why I have been trying to focus this conversation, on OL is because this is the “pre-draft O-line breakdown” topic.

I agree that Gase doesn’t need probowl OT’s.  I would like him to have a good LT for the next decade though.

You do not believe he will pick an OT at 11, that’s cool.  I think he will pick an OT in round 1.  That may be via trade up from 11, that may be by staying put at 11, and that may be by trading down in round 1 … but I believe he will choose OT.

You don’t want him to pick an OT in round 1, that’s cool too.  I do want him to pick an OT in round 1.

We both want and believe different things.  That’s all cool as well.

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Our chat is long my good man  ... my original intention was to clean it up and make it easier to read.  However, my 9 year old has just screamed down the stairs at me for about the 10th time that mom has dinner on the table for us.  So it is coming as is.

______________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________________

 

Ljr

My point in my 1st post

JD has done a good job with OG/C

I do not like having Fant and Edoga as our only OT’s.  They are both ??s regarding how they will perform and we have nothing definitive behind them.

I expect JD to address this with a vet before the draft and an OT as our 1st pick of the draft.

---

Bit

You responding by saying

JD has done a good job with OG/C

Beachum can be fine for this year if he’s healthy

Fant and Edoga can be fine also

--

Ljr

I agree Fant and Edoga can be good

I agree Beachum can be fine for this year

I don’t like JD only have 2 ?’s at OT on the roster,

---

Bit

Jets O was not explosive last year

Jets O lost Robbie

Adding LT doesn’t fix us not being explosive

JD should be able to get an LT in round 3

A WR in round 3 will likely be bad

---

Ljr

I am not talking about WR in this chat

I am talking about fixing LT and RT in this chat

If JD could fix LT/RT in round 3 that would be awesome

Only having 2 ? OT’s on the roster now and waiting until round 3 to get another OT on our roster is taking a very big chance

I want more answers at OT

---

Bit

Many fans care too much about OT.  The OG/C positions have been upgraded.

WR/CB/OLB all are bad too

Too many fans are just talking about OT/OG/C

To win a team needs to score points

WR in round 1 & WR in round 2 would start to help our explosiveness

Drafting OT will not help us be explosive

The answer to helping Sam is by giving him explosive WR’s the other team will be afraid to blitz and that will give him more time in the pocket.

---

Ljr

If I understand you right you believe

WR/CB/OLB are more important for us to fix right now then LT/RT

The topic of this thread is “the OL needs more help before the draft”

I want to see improvements at LT and RT

---

Bit

WR/CB/OLB/LT/RT are all important

JD is an OL expert

JD may be able to get OT after pick 11

Not all of the top OT’s fit what Gase wants

There is a good chance JD trades down and picks Jones

---

Ljr

I agree JD is an OL expert

His expertise likely does not drastically change (not the order of the 5) but who the top 5 OT’s are

I believe JD will decide the value for LT in round 1 will be worth us picking one

I trust JD’s judgement in picking LT with our 1st pick

---

Bit

I think JD does not see 5 OT’s all at the top level

Bit see’s Becton & Thomas at top level, Wirfs & Wills 2nd level, Jones & more as 3rd level

Bit believes if Becton & Thomas aren’t there JD will take a different position in round 1

Bit would take Wirfs

What JD wants is what matters not what Bit or Ljr want

---

Ljr

Agree you, me & JD think differently

It does seem like most people think these 5 guys are better than the OT’s after them.

I do not want Fant & Edoga to be the only OT’s on the team before the draft

I want JD to pick OT in round 1

I hope JD wants this too

---

Bit

There is good OT value in round 3

Gase does not need Orlando Pace or Walter Jones at LT

Andrew Thomas & a kid coming out next year will be good but not as good as Pace or Jones.

---

Ljr

What I have been saying this entire time is I want us to draft LT in round 1

I do not need this pick to be Pace or Jones.  I would love it if our pick performs similar to D’brickishaw or if we pick Thomas

I want JD to pick OT in round 1

Am I correct that Bit does not want OT in round 1

I agree that what ljr and what bit wants does not matter, what JD wants is what matters.

---

Bit

Brick was picked 6th, Thomas will be picked around there too.

Ljr thinks a “top 5” guy will be there at 11

Becton, Thomas, & likely Wirfs will be gone by 11

Bit likes Ruggs.

Scoring points matters more than OL

Wanting OT no matter what at 11 may result in a bad pick

Bit wants to make sure that I understand it is not what Bit or Ljr want that matters, it is what JD wants to matters

My thinking JD will go OT in round 1 means he would want an expensive OL and he has not shown he wants an expensive OL

JD will save money for when Sam’s contract is up

You understand I only want to talk OL here, and not about WR, QB, HC

 The draft is about building a whole team is most important.

Gase doesn’t need probowl OT’s.

I do not believe JD will pick OL at 11

---

Ljr

My response to your latest post

Brother, I have no idea whether you believe I am saying and meaning the things you bring up, but I’m not.

---

My talking about Brick or Thomas was my responding to your saying i believed I needed walter jones or orlando pace as my LT.  To be clear, i do not need a Hall of Famer as my LT.  I am looking for our best chance to have a respectable LT for the next decade.

To respond to your next point - I am not expecting a top 5 talent to fall to 11.  I am saying I want the top LT talent (according to JD and not me) to be our 1st round pick.  Whether JD believe he should trade up, stay at 11, or trade back for this, I am good trusting his judgement in how to make this happen.

---

Scoring points does not matter more than OL.  OL is a piece of the puzzle that allows us to score points, as are QB, WR, etc.  Picking an OT in round 1 hopefully will give us an opportunity to score more points than last season.

I agree want LT at pick 11 may result in a bad pick.  So might trading up for one, so might trading back in round 1 for one, so might waiting until round 3 to draft one.  Picking WR at 11 might also result in a bad pick.  The draft is a crapshoot, we all know this.  However, the percentages that you don’t wind up with crap are better in round 1 than they are in round 3.

I agree that it is not what you want or what I want that will matter during the draft, instead it will be what JD wants.

You are completely wrong in saying that JD picking an LT in the draft means he is going the expensive route to get one???  Drafting one instead of getting one from free agency instead is the cheaper way to do this.

I agree that OL by itself is not what makes up a team.  I agree that WR, QB, & HC are important to a team concept.  I still have been trying to focus this conversation, in this “pre-draft O-line breakdown” topic, to the O-line.

I agree that Gase doesn’t need probowl OT’s.  I would like him to have a good LT for the next decade though.

You do not believe he will pick an OT at 11, that’s cool.  I think he will pick an OT in round 1.  That may be via trade up from 11, that may be by staying put at 11, and that may be by trading down in round 1 … but I believe he will choose OT.

You don’t want him to pick an OT in round 1, that’s cool too.  I do want him to pick an OT in round 1.

We both want and believe different things.  That’s cool as well.

 

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